ppanther wrote:Save the blame game for someone who doesn't know better.
Blame game? What? Skeptical and maybe paranoid, just a bit?
I just went through this with WW, and now you're doing the same thing.
In saying this....
You're not a slave to a closed mind, unless you decide that's what you want to be.
...you are placing blame. No two ways around it. You're saying that a lack of faith is simply the by-product of having a closed mind. By merely opening up your mind, and then doing what's necessary, faith will happen.
That's the point you're making there.
Then, when called on it, you backpedaled. You're now trying to deny that you're placing blame, and instead you deflect and call me paranoid.
WW did the same thing, until finally he was pushed to the point that he owned up to what he really feels.
"If the shoe fits, yada yada..."
At least he finally admitted it.
Unless you're talking extreme cases of brainwashing faith isn't a matter of the mind.
I completely disagree. Nothing you've said on the subject to this point has convinced me otherwise, but I'm sure that won't stop you from Annie-ing up this post and trying again.
I don't give a fuck whether you agree. You're wrong. If we agreed, it'd mean you were right, and we wouldn't be having this stupid conversation. Instead, you're Annie-ing this thing up every bit as much as I am, and you're just stamping your feet and saying, "No! I KNOW how to achieve the gift, errrr, I mean I know how to, umm, get faith, yeah...and you don't!"
WGARA? I've been there and done that. Millions have. I
know you're wrong. It doesn't work the way you think it does, not if you're not...you.
I have no choice in how a message makes me feel.
???
Really?
You have no choice? About any message? Ever?
Really??
You can't
decide anything after your initial emotional response to a message?
You can't talk yourself into acquiring faith in a higher being, no. If that feeling isn't within you, deciding that it would be a good thing to feel isn't going to make it happen, no.
That's why it's a gift. If you could do it yourself it's not a gift, it's an accomplishment.
That's your own contradiction. I'm just pointing it out to you.
If that is true, why are you bothering with debate? Or rather, why is anyone bothering to debate with you? I can't even fathom how a mind could be more closed than yours, Van, if what you said is true.
Of course you can't, because your mind is every bit as closed, in the opposite direction. You revel in the condescending hubris of the Faithful.
It's always hilarious when someone who's as stubborn and closed minded as you are points their finger in accusation at the other person, for daring to be the same way.
We've been through this before. I've told you (and iaa) about all the years I spent going through the same religious teachings as everybody else. Through my first wife and all her religious quests along with my own religious schooling at a Catholic high school, I've spent a lot of time dealing with this question. Well beyond my early days, well into my twenties and thirties, I kept searching.
Nothing ever happens.
When I ask you, specifically, what more could I do, the answer you (and WW) give is always along the lines of, "Open your mind," or "You can't receive it if you don't ask for it," or "You won't find it if you don't look for it."
It's always an accusation. It's always the same thing: "You're doing something wrong. It's your fault that it hasn't happened."
Okay, if that's the case, lay it out for me. Give me the Guaranteed Christy Method For Achieving Long Lasting Religious Faith. Give me specifics. Tell me exactly how you achieved it, through proper diligence and always maintaining the correct mindset.
Tell me. I'll do it. I don't like being agnostic. I don't like being permanently skeptical; never knowing sucks. If you know The Secret To Achieving Faith, impart it to me, and I'll git 'r done.
No shit. I'm not joking.
