Big Ten Expansion Yet Again

[FLW Buckeye]

sources telling me, that Missouri,nebraska, and Rutgers have been offered.

The wait is On Notre Dame, they have been offered and the Big10 has given them a time limit on their decision. If ND doesn't accept, Syracuse and Pitt will be the other 2 choices.


They also said expect the Big12 and Pac10 to work on a multi conference type tv deal. As both hope to keep their conference in order, with Pac10 possibly adding 2 teams and Big12 replacing Mu and NU.

Also, the SEC is going to be proactive, and they are looking at Clemson and georgia tech as their first moves.


Who knows, untill the ink is dry, it's all specualtion!

ESPN Sports Center just reported a few minutes ago that the four teams ( MU, Neb, ND, and Rutgers) mentioned by Adel were sent offers by the Big Ten.

[War Wagon]

The non-denial denial again, why the fuck bother with language like this?

Wake me up when this shit is over.

--------------------------------

KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- The University of Missouri wants to make clear that it is part of the Big 12 Conference.

The university released the following statement Monday afternoon:

"The University of Missouri is receiving numerous inquiries related to public speculation about conference membership. MU is a member of the Big 12 Conference and will not respond to speculation about conference realignment. Mizzou continues to be grateful for all the interest shown in and support for the university."

[Adelpiero]

Is it possible to indulge what that source may be?

His deadbeat bookie, who heard from a friend, who read it on yahoo.com.

Nice to add absolutely nothing in another CFB thread, it's kind your M.O. on this board.

I have come in here 2 times and told you what my sources said, on both occasions, my info has been backed up, days to weeks later by the media and press.

And now with the news that MU,NU, and etc have been offered. which i said weeks ago, wow, correct yet again. Almost sickening how right i am.


So many circle jerkers on this forum, its bordering on boredome. No wonder many of the good CFB posters are gone, and instead, replaced by vans, mtools, and jonsenses. Yawn

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Get over yourself, idiot. Your "sources" should get in line with everybody else. Multiple outlets have been speculating about offers to those schools for weeks now.

If you don't like it here you're free to leave. Your braindead mushmouth 3rd grade musings will be missed by no one.

[Van]

Adel has sucked out loud from Day One. The guy has never offered anything other than third-hand blatherings for which he and he alone always gives himself praise.

He's Zyclone without any of the accompanying humorous bits.

[Terry in Crapchester]

From a pure revenue standpoint, you'd have to think ND is better off in the Big Ten what with the BTN as well as its restructured bowl contracts. Four bowl games now outside of the BCS that will be paying out about $3.5 million per team.

Except for the fact that, as I previously mentioned, alumni donations undoubtedly will decline if ND winds up in the Big Ten. How much is anyone's guess, of course, but it's certainly possible that they could decline enough to offset any gains the athletic department stands to make, and then some.

Fwiw, there's now something of a discussion at ND Nation about the offer, although not nearly to the extent I would've figured. I think ND will decline the offer. But even if they accept, I believe they won't do so until after the others do, out of fear that the Big Ten might pull offers to the other schools if ND is the first in. ND wants no part of being the "plus one" school to the current Big Ten, but a Big Ten with an expanded footprint is, I suppose, at least a possibility.

It's also being said at ND Nation that if ND accepts, the Big Ten will offer another school. If ND declines, the Big Ten may offer both Pitt and Syracuse, or they may stand pat at 14. If it's the latter, that would probably mean that the Big East will survive, at least for the time being. But I suspect that losing Pitt, Rutgers and Syracuse would be a death knell for the Big East.

Also fwiw, I ran across this as a projection of what the superconferences might look like. I'm not sure it will come to pass -- five superconferences would water down the landscape too much -- but it projects ND to continue football independence, and become part of a 20-team "Big Atlantic" conference for basketball and olympic sports.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Not to go all Annie up on this thread, but . . .



Not so fast, my friend.

http://ncaafootball.fanhouse.com/2010/0 ... invites%2F

Report on Big Ten Expansion Gains Plenty of Denials38
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5/10/2010 4:40 PM ET By Matt Snyder

Matt Snyder
College Sports Editor

Amidst all the rumors and speculation as to which teams will be joining the newly expanded Big Ten in 2011 or 2012, the conference has extended "initial offers" to four schools, according to a report from Sports Radio 810 WHB in Kansas City. The station is an ESPN affiliate, but hasn't been a bastion of breaking news, and no one else is reporting it as true, so this is to be taken with a grain of salt.

The four names are not a surprise, either, as the reported invitations went to Notre Dame, Missouri, Nebraska and Rutgers. Those four schools, along with Syracuse, Pittsburgh and Connecticut, have been the hottest names in the rumor mill when it comes to the teams on the Big Ten's radar.

If the report is true, the conference is planning on either expanding to 14 or 16 teams. The scenario laid out is that if all four accept the invite, the Big Ten will then look to add one more team to round things out at 16 -- but if at least one school elects to decline the offer, the conference may go with 14. The most likely school to refuse the proposal appears to be Notre Dame, a program that has been independent in football throughout history. Coincidentally, adding Notre Dame's football program would be -- by far -- the biggest financial coup for the conference in the expansion project.

The presidents and chancellors of the current Big Ten universities will be meeting the first week of June in Chicago, which could, logically speaking, be the perfect time for them to approve the additions. So, really, how could the league have extended invitations without having approval of the governing bodies? Obviously, it's possible they have approved the invites for expansion, but no one has confirmed or commented on this. A lot of this "story" just seems like a talk radio guy trying to stir the pot.

And, of course, there are already several denials/rebuttals on the board.

Nebraska chancellor Harvey Perlman stated that there is no truth -- "none whatsoever" -- that they've been invited.

FanHouse has received the following statement from Nebraska spokesperson Meg Lauerman: "We recognize the intense speculation about conference realignment and the possible impact it may have on Nebraska. Both Chancellor Harvey Perlman and Athletic Director Tom Osborne have indicated that the university would consider any opportunity that would advance the interests of the university. The University of Nebraska has not been offered any opportunity to move from the Big 12. We remain committed to the success of the Big 12 Conference. Until the Big 10 Conference makes and announces its decision on expansion, the University of Nebraska will have no further comment and we do not intend to continue to respond further to questions or speculations on this subject."

The Kansas City Star is disputing the notion of anything official, as well.

FanHouse has received the following statement from Missouri: "The University of Missouri is receiving numerous inquiries related to public speculation about conference membership. MU is a member of the Big 12 Conference and will not respond to speculation about conference realignment. Mizzou continues to be grateful for all the interest shown in and support for the university."

And this statement from Rutgers has arrived as well: "We are a proud member of the Big East Conference. It is not our place to speculate on any reports on the expansion plans of any other conference."

Until it's all official, rumors will continue to rampantly swirl -- and we'll likely continue to see denials and/or generic statements.

For now, everyone should simply realize absolutely nothing has really, concretely happened.

UPDATE: Now, the Big Ten itself has reportedly offered up their own denial. Not only that, commissioner Jim Delany has publicly stated he would contact the commissioners of affected conferences before going after specific schools in any expansion plans, and that he has not done so to this point. Clearly, nothing even remotely imminent is in the works just yet.

[Goober McTuber]

Not to go all Annie up on this thread, but . . .

A bit late for that.

[Killian]

It would be the same Big East, sans Rutgers with the coach who ran roughshod over that league with teams with less talent.

They would have a much easier shot at the BCS than if they were to join the Big 10.

They could make a run at two more Big East schools if ND says no.

From a pure revenue standpoint, you'd have to think ND is better off in the Big Ten what with the BTN as well as its restructured bowl contracts. Four bowl games now outside of the BCS that will be paying out about $3.5 million per team.

Yet the Big East would likely let ND keep the NBC contract and as Terry stated, the donations to ND would likely decrease with them joining the Big 10. The main reason for ND to join the Big 10, and this shouldn't be over looked, would be their inclusion in the CIC.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

What Big East? If ND says no, the Big Ten could destroy the Big East.

[Goober McTuber]

Pssst....Sam....it’s about the money.

[Killian]

What Big East? If ND says no, the Big Ten could destroy the Big East.

Not in the most recent hypothetical. They would be taking 3 teams, 2 from the Big 12 and 1 from the Big East. In this senario, the Big East wouldn't go away, they would likely look to a team to fill Rutgers slot and ND could take that and attempt to strong arm the Big East into provisions they likely wouldn't have gotten from the Big 10.

What would be interesting is to see what would happen if the ACC decided to get proactive and offer membership to Syracuse, UConn, ND and Rutgers. They would have the entire eastern seashore locke up and could try to start their own network in some of the largest TV markets in the country.

[King Crimson]

the Big East wouldn't go away, .

Agree. and with the BE, you have to ask "which Big East?". The one with Boston College? Miami? Temple? it's never really been anything set and certain since it was the ESPN only hoops conference. it's always been more of a loose confederacy than a nation of states. gaining and losing members is nothing new here.

[War Wagon]

Why would the Big Ten want Missouri anyway?

Our chess and debate team are nails.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Not in the most recent hypothetical. They would be taking 3 teams, 2 from the Big 12 and 1 from the Big East.

What I'm talking about is if ND refuses the bid, the Big Ten could likely go after two more Big East teams in addition to Rutgers. That could spell the end for the Big East.

[Killian]

They could, but there aren't many Big East teams that fit the athletic and academic profile that the Big 10 would like to attract. I could see Rutgers, Syracuse and possibly UConn as having both, although I admit I'm not certain of UConn's academic reputation.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I was thinking more like Syracuse and Pitt. I'm not sure any one team outside of ND is considered a perfect fit, so they would have to make some sacrifices. I think it's all just a smoke screen anyway to get ND.

The donating thing is interesting though. I think it's far fetched that a large % of ND's donating fan base is going to completely and PERMANENTLY cut off donations to ND. Perhaps some in the beginning. Time would relieve their anger and they would ultimately adjust and not want to see their program/athletic department struggle.

[Screw_Michigan]

I think it's far fetched that a large % of ND's donating fan base is going to completely and PERMANENTLY cut off donations to ND.

Are you sure? That vaunted tardition of independence allows the Irish to play such a noble schedule of second-tier opponents, bottom-feeding teams in barnstorming locations and qualifying for bowl games they have no business being in. It's as if they decided to get rid of the gold helmets.

[Killian]

Hey, look who decided to show his face again! Are you sick of getting your ass torn asunder in CDS? As usual, you pretty much don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

Leave the heavy lifting to those who know and care.

[FLW Buckeye]

I'm trying to get a grip on this. Is St. Louis a huge TV market for Mizzou sports? Kansas City? Where's the money from adding Missouri?

This is an interesting read on the BTN and how it impacts a move by Mizzou.

Also, several articles from the St Louis Post Dispatch discussing the pros and cons of expansion and the impact on Mizzou here and here.

[Van]

Be funny if 2 or 4 schools accepted invites and no one else was able to be added.

Screwed again!

Nah, as long as Northern Iowa is out there, they're golden.

Well, okay, Iowa might bitch about it.

[Dinsdale]

I'm trying to get a grip on this. Is St. Louis a huge TV market for Mizzou sports? Kansas City? Where's the money from adding Missouri?

I don't think either city/metro alone is a huge media market, but if you combine the two, all of a sudden it's a rather large one.

[Goober McTuber]

No thanks. Carpetbaggers just look better in the South.

[Truman]

I'm trying to get a grip on this. Is St. Louis a huge TV market for Mizzou sports? Kansas City? Where's the money from adding Missouri?

I don't think either city/metro alone is a huge media market, but if you combine the two, all of a sudden it's a rather large one.

...but if you combine the two, all of a sudden their collective population practically equals that of the STATES of Oregon and Alabama.

Not hard to fathom, Dins (and most likely, much to your relief), but a number of Missourians circa 1835 either missed the memo to "Go West, Young Man" or were too stupid to negotiate which direction the damn trail actually lead. The result is our lovable back-water presently inhabited by almost six million souls. Not only do we enjoy 'lectricity and indoor plumbing (well, most of us do, 'sup Wags), but the football team of our Land Grant University has been known to rise up and knock off the likes of the Greatest Super Powers of All Time in BTPCF History ('sup Sam, Van, TiC, et al) every 30 years-or-so.

...And some of us even have cable television. [/Letterman pause for comedic æffect]

Going out on a Pacific redwood here, Dins, but I'm guessing that the Quacks and Pelts games are both readily available on your cable package EVERY football Saturday, even when they play the likes of Northwest Left Testicle State (Home of the Fighting Scrotums) in the non-con.

Not so for MizzouFan following his Tigers here in the Flyover. The XII Conference cable football package subjected to the Black and Gold diehards in these parts sucks Longhorn-sized cock. Not only do we annually miss three-fourths of the non-con, but the BXII package regularly eschews fucking conference games in these parts against the likes of Baylor and K-State for the viewing locals. Yeah, WGARA, but its OUR team and OUR state and we want to see 'em.

Conversely, the Big 10 Network pipes in every meaningless game played by Minnesota or Northwestern into our market because, well, they can. These games are currently found on the upper-tier channels of premium cable packages, but all that is easily subject to change once the 'Gers and 'Skers join the 11 and restore football cred and respectibility to the richest (and Most Over-Rated) Conference in America.

[War Wagon]

bwah - Rack Tru

Dude is seldom more than a pinch hitter anymore but when duty calls, the fences aren't deep enough.

[War Wagon]

I'm trying to get a grip on this. Is St. Louis a huge TV market for Mizzou sports? Kansas City? Where's the money from adding Missouri?

Try getting a grip on the fact that Missouri hosts two NFL and MLB franchises and do the math from there.

How many professional sports teams reside in Alabama?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

and Most Over-Rated

What fantasy world are you living in that the Big 11 receives such high ratings? It seems year in, year out, nobody gets shit on more. Too slow, antiquated, obsolete, etc. Fuck, even Big Ten fans think the Big Ten sucks.

[Terry in Crapchester]

The donating thing is interesting though. I think it's far fetched that a large % of ND's donating fan base is going to completely and PERMANENTLY cut off donations to ND. Perhaps some in the beginning. Time would relieve their anger and they would ultimately adjust and not want to see their program/athletic department struggle.

Not saying that a significant % of ND's alumni base will cut off ALL donations, necessarily, but I'm pretty sure there will be enough alumni cutting a sizeable portion of their donations. Certainly enough that ND will feel the pinch.

For example, minimum donation for ticket eligibility doesn't go over $200/year. At $1,000/year (Sorin Society member), you can pretty much have season tickets, although they don't call them season tickets at ND. Then consider that there are a number of Sorin Society members who donate far more than $1,000/year, as well as a number of alumni who don't donate at Sorin Society levels, but certainly well above the minimum.

Against that backdrop, it's not hard to imagine that there will be a number of $1 million/year donors who cut their donations to $1,000/year. And a much larger number of $500/year donors who cut their donations to $200/year. That'll put a financial hit on ND.

There's also the issue of geography. Right now, ND draws its fanbase and its student body from around the country. That threatens to change if ND joins the Big Ten. Maybe not right away, but the trend will be irreversible and obvious after, say, 20-25 years in the Big Ten.

What would be interesting is to see what would happen if the ACC decided to get proactive and offer membership to Syracuse, UConn, ND and Rutgers. They would have the entire eastern seashore locke up and could try to start their own network in some of the largest TV markets in the country.

I think the ACC is in trouble when it's all said and done. Assuming the Meatgrinder decides to follow the Big Ten's lead, the ACC's southern flank, i.e., those schools south of Tobacco Road, are all vulnerable. Fwiw, I think the Big East and ACC will merge eventually, but not before both conferences are picked over. I don't think ND wants to join the resulting conference, not for football anyway, but I suppose I could be wrong about that.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Not saying that a significant % of ND's alumni base will cut off ALL donations, necessarily, but I'm pretty sure there will be enough alumni cutting a sizeable portion of their donations. Certainly enough that ND will feel the pinch.

God, that is pathetic if true.

[Goober McTuber]

Conversely, the Big 10 Network pipes in every meaningless game played by Minnesota or Northwestern into our market because, well, they can. These games are currently found on the upper-tier channels of premium cable packages, but all that is easily subject to change once the 'Gers and 'Skers join the 11 and restore football cred and respectibility to the richest (and Most Over-Rated) Conference in America.

Missouri and Nebraska are going to restore football cred to the Big 10?

[Goober McTuber]

I'm trying to get a grip on this. Is St. Louis a huge TV market for Mizzou sports? Kansas City? Where's the money from adding Missouri?

Try getting a grip on the fact that Missouri hosts two NFL and MLB franchises and do the math from there.

My math tells me that in 2009 all of those teams not nicknamed the Cardinals finished in last place. Props, losers.

[King Crimson]

well, not to be discounted, with Mizzou you get the most ill-tempered fan-base in the Big XII. They are only happy when they are unhappy. Winning some has cooled the MU masochism streak a bit, but they are an irritable bunch.

Gary Pinkel? Fire Him! He sucks!
Mike Anderson? Fire Him! He sucks!

with all respect to our guys here. :P

[Killian]

Outside of Mgo, that sounds like every MSU fan I know. They're only happy when Michigan is losing. That's why I'm shocked speed_bag isn't more of an MSU fan.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Not saying that a significant % of ND's alumni base will cut off ALL donations, necessarily, but I'm pretty sure there will be enough alumni cutting a sizeable portion of their donations. Certainly enough that ND will feel the pinch.

God, that is pathetic if true.

Not really. That's why they call it a donation, whether to give is entirely voluntary. And many donors can, and do, attach conditions to their gifts. If a sizeable portion of ND's alumni want to make continued football independence a condition of their donations to ND, or at least some portion thereof, that's their prerogative. Just because you happen to disagree doesn't make exercising that prerogative any less valid.

Even at a school with a relatively small alumni base, like ND, most alums don't have direct access to Swarbrick, or even somebody lower in the athletic department. The only way to make your voice hurt is to hit them where it hurts, in the pockets.

[indyfrisco]

Terry, he's not disagreeing they would cut donations. He's calling it what it is, childish and pathetic twat oozing.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I realize that. Like I said, sometimes cutting donations is the only way to get yourself heard.

The overwhelming majority of ND alums are in favor of continued independence in football. If conference membership is/becomes necessary, there's probably a stronger sentiment against the Big Ten than would be the case as to other conferences, if only because of the history between ND and the Big Ten.

[indyfrisco]

Wounds heal over time. Some dumbasses just choose to peel off the scab.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I don't know that this particular self-inflicted wound would heal, if it were to happen. By joining the Big Ten, unless the conference goes to 16 and brings a sizeable portion of the Big East as well, we become pigeonholed as a midwestern school. It won't happen immediately, but it will be quite obvious, like I said, after about 20-25 years in the Big Ten. Fortunately, I probably won't be around by then.

Meanwhile, to add to a situation that's already clear as mud, there's this:

http://www.blueandgold.com/content/?aid=9161

May 11, 2010
The First Domino?
by TODD D. BURLAGE
Assistant Editor

If reports yesterday from WHB Radio in Kansas City are accurate, then the first domino to Big Ten expansion and Notre Dame’s potential place in it has started to teeter.

According to the story on the WHB website, the Big Ten has extended conference invitations to Big 12 members Missouri and Nebraska, as well as Notre Dame.

Swarbrick has long said that Notre Dame would have to continue to evaluate its place in the changing college football landscape.

The Chicago Tribune is questioning the accuracy of the reports today, but the three schools involved fall in line with the speculation that has surrounded potential expansion for the last several weeks.

The anxiousness and posturing that rumors and anonymous reports like these have created continue to ripple through the entire college athletics landscape, and have put many conferences and universities on high alert.

“It’s like musical chairs,” said Notre Dame president Rev. John I. Jenkins in a story last week for The Chronicle of Higher Education. “You don’t want to be left standing when everybody else has a seat. The current uncertainty around the number and the timing creates greater tensions and greater stress.”

Does the Big Ten want to add just one team, get to 12 teams, and become on par with the SEC, the ACC, and the Big 12? That would allow for a split into two divisions, the addition of a conference championship football game and the multi millions of dollars that would come with it.

Or as the story out of Kansas City suggested, is the Big Ten hoping to add three teams and get to 14, making it the biggest football league on the country, and thereby increasing its footprint and revenue for its Big Ten Network, which already reaches 73 million households?

Or will the Big Ten create what Notre Dame athletic director Jack Swarbrick has called “seismic changes” by adding five teams, getting to 16 members and creating the first true superconference?

This third scenario would create the biggest shock wave because an expansion of five teams would likely include at least two from the Big East, mortally wounding a conference that only has eight football members, and thereby bringing uncertainty to Notre Dame’s place in all sports other than hockey and football.

Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany said during the Bowl Championship Series meetings in April that he and his conference are working under a 12- to 18-month timetable and are “not anywhere near” having a firm plan in place, but with stories like yesterday’s surfacing, maybe he is getting closer.

Perhaps some sturdier details will come from the Big Ten meetings May 17-19 in Chicago.

As for Notre Dame, the preference obviously remains to keep its independence in football and remain a member of the Big East where the university can keep a strong presence in its Olympic sports, play a national football schedule, hold its place in BCS, remain partners with NBC and keep the bounty to itself.

The caveat to that scenario remains whether the Big East will remain solvent, or if the Big Ten will swallow up Pittsburgh, Rutgers, Syracuse and/or other conference members, essentially sounding the death knell for the league.

One tactic that is being discussed within the Big East ranks would be to send Notre Dame an ultimatum to either add its football program to the conference, or take its other sports and get out.

“I think that’s something the powers that be are discussing in terms of the strategies,” said Connecticut football coach Randy Edsell. “They’re looking to be proactive rather than reactive.”

In another effort to protect itself against piracy, the Big East has hired former NFL commissioner Paul Tagliabue as a special advisor to help wade through these uncertain times. And after the defections of Virginia Tech, Boston College and Miami from the Big East to the ACC in 2003, the Big East adopted some measures to protect itself against a similar raid.

One is a $5 million penalty for a university to leave and another is a minimum 27-month waiting period for a Big East school to join another conference. But the money might be too great for some schools not to face those concessions and carry on with defection plans.

Swarbrick said during an alumni gathering in Chicago two weeks ago that there is no doubt realignment is coming. What it will look like and Notre Dame’s place in it remain the unsolved mysteries.

Note the difference between the WHB report and the earlier one. The WHB report omits any mention of an offer to Rutgers.

[indyfrisco]

Probably because Rutgers is irrelavent.

[Goober McTuber]

By joining the Big Ten, unless the conference goes to 16 and brings a sizeable portion of the Big East as well, we become pigeonholed as a midwestern school.

You are a midwestern school.