Lefty

[Killian]

I know we lost. I'm not blaming the refs for the loss. I'm blaming the playcalling and the mistakes. But that doesn't mean the refs shouldn't be called out for doing a poor job. And that's why Ferentz and our AD Bob Bowlsby have filed a complaint.

And our team isn't worth a shit? Neither is yours. We outplayed you in that game. We beat you 6 out of 10 and you know it. We had that game won and we made some costly mistakes. You needed us to give you the game in order to win. Anyone that watched the game knows Iowa and Michigan were about equal teams and Iowa was probably a little beter. Hate to tell you this, but the best team does not ALWAYS win.

You're blaming the refs, too. Just let it go. There are shitty calls in every game.

Neither team is worth a shit. Michigan is the better team, at almost every position on the field. The difference is on the sidelines, but that was negated when Ferentz couldn't find his balls in regulation. You're right, the best team doesn't always win, but it did this game.

[WolverineSteve]

You were at home. Good teams are capable of winning when they don't play their best. We won, with less than our best effort (note how I refrain from using injuries as an excuse, although it would help to explain some offensive shortcomings), you lost AT HOME where you should win these type of games, especially if you outplayed the opponent (which you did not you myopic jackass). Quit crying, and I suggest Ferentz do the same. He needs to look ahead, not back, and prepare his team for the next loss.

6 out of 10 you say...yeah that's the definition of domination. :roll:

[PSUFAN]

I'm interested to hear more about Ferentz's complaint. I think the case needs to be made to the league that they have incompetent officials. Regardless of who wins what game when, officiating in the Big 10 is terrible.

[TheJON]

Killian,

Michigan has better players at almost every position? Are you kidding me? We have a better O-line, better QB, better LB's, better safeties, better kickers, equal to or better CB's, WR's, and RB's. Yeah, they're WAY better than Iowa! There are more future NFL draft picks starting for Iowa than Michigan.


PSUFAN,

I'm not sure we'll ever hear much more about it. Regardless of the league's findings, I'm guessing this is the last we'll hear about it. COuld be wrong though.

[Killian]

Killian,

Michigan has better players at almost every position? Are you kidding me? We have a better O-line, better QB, better LB's, better safeties, better kickers, equal to or better CB's, WR's, and RB's. Yeah, they're WAY better than Iowa! There are more future NFL draft picks starting for Iowa than Michigan.

Let's see....better O-line? Not right now you don't. Better QB? No way in hell. Even in his slump, Henne is a more physically talented QB than Tate. Better LB's? Yes. Better safeties? Probably, especially considering Michigan was down to their 4th and 5th string safeties. Better kickers? Draw. Equal or better CB's? Possibly. WR's? No way in hell. RB's? No way in hell. And no, there are not more future NFL draft picks starting for Iowa than Michigan.

Michigan has great players and piss poor coaching. Iowa has decent players, and typically great coaching. That is where the talent difference is most aparent, on the sidelines. That is why you compete, because you have a great coach.

[WolverineSteve]

The oline and qb accounted for 3 second half points. Yep they're good.

The LB's and safeties couldn't run down a wr screen that went 50+Yards for a td. Oh I forgot, some dude was held, right in front of the official, who, being paid off by Michigan, refused to throw the flag. Got it.

Better kickers...I'll give you that one on the basis that I don't really notice them unless they're blowing games ('sup babs).

CB's- We're near the top of the league in pass D.
WR's-Avant,Breaston,Manningham, I'll take them over whoever you've got. I think almost everyone on this board has heard of all three of these guys. I personally can't name 2 Iowa wr's.

RB's- Hart was hurt. He rushed for 1700 yards last year. Our 4th stringer ran through your superior d-line, lb's,cb's and such for the winning score. I'll take my guys.

Oh yeah MICHIGAN WON. You sound like such a pussy whining a week later.

Will there be anything else?
Now go fuck yourself.

[TheJON]

Killian,

You are not even close. Henne might be more physically gifted, but he is not a better QB than Tate. No way. Iowa's O-line IS better than Michigan's especially with Jake Long out. Our O-line is very good even though it's young. Wide recivers are about a push? With Ed Hinkel out, I suppose you could give Michigan the edge. But Solomon is the best of them all despite his poor performance on Saturday. He had an off game. Breaston is all hype and no production. Spare me his injury bullshit, he hasn't done much as a WR even when healthy.

Kickers a draw? Yeah, and Pete Myers was an equal replacement to Michael Jordan! Kyle Schlicher is one of the 2 or 3 best kickers in the country. Rivas blows.

And yes, there are more future NFL draft picks on Iowa's starting lineup than Michigan's. That's a fact.

[Killian]

Tell me how it's a fact. How is it a fact that they have more NFL draft picks, seeing as how the drafts for these players hasn't taken place.

QB - I have yet to see Henne lose his composure. How exactly is Tate a better QB than Henne? Explain.
OL - Long did play and with him, advantage Michigan
WR - Avant is better than Hinkle, Manningham is better than Soloman, and Breaston is better than your third WR, whom ever that may be. Throw TE's in here and it's an even bigger landslide.
K - How do you consider him one of the best in the country? You know what, fuck that. If you have kickers to hang your hat on, more power to you. But Rivas blows? Considering he made every clutch kick last year, beat MSU in overtime, and had one bad kick againts Minnesota, I would say that's a push. Especially considering the kick that Iowa's kicker missed in the 3rd quarter.

Don't let your opinion of your guys cloud your judgement.

[TheJON]

Umm....correct me if I'm wrong but didn't Rivas miss about 4 kicks in that MSU game??? And if I'm not mistaken, weren't they all easy kicks??


Shlicher has an incredible leg. He's money from anywhere. He has made quite a few clutch kicks. He's missed 2 kicks all year, 1 was blocked. He made his last 11 kicks last season. He's 21 for his last 23, 1 of those 2 misses being blocked, and 3-4 of those are from 50+. You're right, Garrett Rivas and his probably 60% career kicking percentage is better. Sure.

Manningham is better than Solomon? Uh-hu, yep and I'm better than T.O. That's why Carr took Manningham out of the game on Saturday because he didn't know how to run routes. Manningham is a nice young player who will probably be a star, but to say right now he is better than Solomon shows your lack of knowledge of these teams.

Michigan TE's are good, but to say they're better than Iowa's is also retarded. Chandler, Moeaki, and Majerus are all good receiving AND blocking TE's. Moeaki is a future star, Chandler has great size and receiving ability. I'm not saying Iowa's are better, but I'd give it a push.

As for the O-line, if Michigan's is so good, why did they have problems with our defense? They didn't open up a lot of holes running the ball. Our D-line is fucking terrible. They're undersized and inexperienced. Heck, even Illinois' O-line pushed our D-line around. On the flip side, our O-line gave Michigan a lot of fits, especially in the first half.

And then the Henne vs Tate...

Chad Henne is having a lousy year. He made a lot of bad throws on Saturday and in every game. He showed great composure on that final drive against Penn St, but the rest of the year he hasn't done shit. Tate is the leader of his team. Tate had to carry the offense all by himself last year, and led this team to a New Years Day Bowl victory. Without him, we would have lost 9 games last year and that is no joke. Take Henne off Michigan, big deal. They had tons of talent last year. And this year, Tate is having a much better year than Henne and played much better on Saturday. I think by Henne's senior year, he's going to be a Heisman candidate. But right now, he's not even close to as good of an overall QB as Tate. Those that don't follow Iowa all the time don't really understand just how valuable Drew Tate is.

[Killian]

Being valuable and being good are two totally different things, don't confuse them. Obviously it would hurt Iowa more than UofM to lose their starting QB, but that does not mean that he is more talented. Henne, while having a poor year, is still a better QB than Tate.

If your going to throw "future stars" out there, you mind as well include Doering, Richardson and Eubanks. Yep, Iowa's oline is much better. And while we're playing the "if they were so good game", can you explain to me why a fourth string running back was moving the ball against your vaunted linebackers? Or why Breaston can break two tackles, the beast that he is, and take that screen pass to the house? And don't bring up the fucking holding call, that stick still broke two tackles. Manningham was removed due to his leg injury. Even if it was for what you said, take the players on the field on Saturday. Avant is better than Soloman, and Breaston and Manningham are better than Grigsby and your third.

As far as kickers, Rivas is at 77% through 3 years while your boy is at 82% through 2 years. And he's only hitting 46% from 40 yards and beyond while Rivas is at 59%. But weren't you the one who said that kickers weren't real players?

You still haven't explained to me how it's a fact that Iowa has more NFL draft picks than Michigan.

[TheJON]

Schlicher is not 46% from 40+. I don't have a number, but I'm guessing its 80%, maybe better. He's 31-38 in his career kicking field goals and has made at least 15-20 from outside of 40. So there's no way that could be. You gotta remember one thing, Schlicher had never kicked before last year and struggled the first few games, understandably. He's as good as Kaeding and nugent were.

I disagree about the overall talent difference, but we can agree to just disagree. But I'm not disagreeing that Henne has more raw talent. But Ryan Leaf allegedly had incredible talent and look how his NFL career ended up. Raw talent isn't everything for a QB. That's why Tate is better. Henne has a better arm, no doubt. But Tate is the better QB at this point in his career. Now ask me in 2 years if Henne was better his SR year than Tate and I may have a different answer. Actually, I probably will have a different one. Right now I'll take Tate on my team anyday and twice on Sundays over Henne.

As for the NFL....

Chad Greenway, according to Mel Kiper Jr, would have been the #1 linebacker taken, even ahead of Derrick Johnson whom I think is going to be a Hall of Famer- maybe that's my Chiefs homerism though!

Abdul Hodge WILL be the #1 Middle linebacker taken in this years draft.
Clinton Solomon will be one of the Top 5 WR's taken.
Ed Hinkel will be one of the Top 10-12 WR's taken.
Jovon Johnson, Antwan Allen, and Brian Ferentz also have chances to be drafted this year.
Next year, the following players will be drafted....
Mike Jones, Scott Chandler, Drew Tate, Marcus Paschal, Ed Miles, and Kyle Schlicher will all be drafted. Maybe even Miguel Merrick.

I also like the possibilities of our sophomores in a few years being drafted that are current starters...

Albert Young, Herb Grigsby, Bryan Mattison, Kenny Iwebema, Charles Godfrey, Adam Shada.

I'm not going to mention freshman because that's ridiculous to be thinking NFL already.

I just named starters. On the entire roster, sure, Michigan probably has more future NFL draft picks, but not the starters.

[BlindRef]

I am so annoyed by this conversation.

Iowa lost, at home in the "black out" and its everyone else's fault.

You'll never see me come on here and blame the officials for a won or lost game, there are bad calls...they happen.

Like the 'fumble' by Bass, or the "fumble' by Henne in the MSU game. Shit happens.

Jon, this is really your most pathetic performance ever. That's saying a lot, because you have mastered pathetic performances.

[Nolesy]

Let me just summarize this so we can get a little closure.

JON= BITCH + DREW TATE = 2 WHINNY BITCHES. It is now in the books. Done deal.

[Ken]

Pictured: Noj (off picture, right: T1B)

[Killian]

Schlicher is not 46% from 40+. I don't have a number, but I'm guessing its 80%, maybe better. He's 31-38 in his career kicking field goals and has made at least 15-20 from outside of 40. So there's no way that could be. You gotta remember one thing, Schlicher had never kicked before last year and struggled the first few games, understandably. He's as good as Kaeding and nugent were.

I disagree about the overall talent difference, but we can agree to just disagree. But I'm not disagreeing that Henne has more raw talent. But Ryan Leaf allegedly had incredible talent and look how his NFL career ended up. Raw talent isn't everything for a QB. That's why Tate is better. Henne has a better arm, no doubt. But Tate is the better QB at this point in his career. Now ask me in 2 years if Henne was better his SR year than Tate and I may have a different answer. Actually, I probably will have a different one. Right now I'll take Tate on my team anyday and twice on Sundays over Henne.

As for the NFL....

Chad Greenway, according to Mel Kiper Jr, would have been the #1 linebacker taken, even ahead of Derrick Johnson whom I think is going to be a Hall of Famer- maybe that's my Chiefs homerism though!

Abdul Hodge WILL be the #1 Middle linebacker taken in this years draft.
Clinton Solomon will be one of the Top 5 WR's taken.
Ed Hinkel will be one of the Top 10-12 WR's taken.
Jovon Johnson, Antwan Allen, and Brian Ferentz also have chances to be drafted this year.
Next year, the following players will be drafted....
Mike Jones, Scott Chandler, Drew Tate, Marcus Paschal, Ed Miles, and Kyle Schlicher will all be drafted. Maybe even Miguel Merrick.

I also like the possibilities of our sophomores in a few years being drafted that are current starters...

Albert Young, Herb Grigsby, Bryan Mattison, Kenny Iwebema, Charles Godfrey, Adam Shada.

I'm not going to mention freshman because that's ridiculous to be thinking NFL already.

I just named starters. On the entire roster, sure, Michigan probably has more future NFL draft picks, but not the starters.

So out of your entire starting 24 (including kickers), you think that 21 will get drafted? That's fucking ridiculous. Honestly JON, that's being a complete homer. You may love some of those guys and think they are great college players, but there is no way in hell 21 out of 24 will get drafted. 21 may sign contracts, but I bet the number of players drafted will be closer to 15, tops.

As far as your boy, Schlicher, he's 5/11 from beyond 40 yards. Just look:[web]http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/st ... rId=133739[/web]

As far as Henne v. Tate, I agree with what you said re: Leaf. But Tate will be hurt by his lack of size. He's a solid QB in college, but he won't do much in the pros. He might get drafted and make a team, but the most noise he'll make will come from the CFL or from NFL Europe.

[TheJON]

I would not say all 21 of them will get drafted, but yes Killian, pretty close to that. That has NOTHING to do with homerism, it's a fact. Since you seem to disagree with that, which of those players that I said will be drafted do you think will NOT get drafted. You can't just argue my statements without saying WHY I'm wrong.

As for Tate, I agree to an extent. He'll get drafted in the 4th or 5th round, though. His size will hurt him in the NFL though. But hey, he's a hard working kid and you never know. Don't kid yourself, he does have a good arm. It's better than some give him credit for. And this year, he's learned to throw in the pocket a lot better. That will help his NFL stock. He's also more mobile than people realize. He's good at handling a blitz and eluding pressure and he makes good decisions. He does need to show more consistency with his deep ball, however.

And one last mother fucking time for those of you that can not comprehend the Enlish language.......I AM NOT, AND NEVER HAVE, BLAMED THE OFFICIALS FOR IOWA LOSING!! WE LOST BECAUSE OF PLAYCALLING AND MISTAKES. NOT BECAUSE OF THE REFS. IF WE HAD ENDED UP WINNING THE GAME, I WOULD STILL BE ON HERE BITCHING ABOUT THE OFFICIALS BECAUSE REFS DESERVE TO BE CALLED OUT WHEN THEY DO A POOR JOB. COMPRENDER???

[indyfrisco]

Jon,

Do you not understand that when you say you do not blame the officials for Iowa losing while, at the same time, saying that if it wasn't for the officials, Iowa would have pulled away by halftime, you are blaming the officials? Comprender?

[TheJON]

No, you are wrong and I am right (not that it is a surprise). Yes, the officials did prevent Iowa from pulling away at half. However, taht does not matter because Iowa still should have won the game. Like I said, had Iowa won, I'd be on here bitching about the refs. They deserve to be called out for their performance. That's why our coach and AD are filing a complaint. Is that really that hard to understand? Really???

[indyfrisco]

[TheJON]

blow me!!

[indyfrisco]

No thanks. Those days are behind me.

[TheJON]

Don't care to relive your college years?

[indyfrisco]

After talking with you, I feel I've already relived my grade school years.

[TheJON]

That's good, perhaps this time you could pay attention in English class. That way you'd have no troubles comprehending.

[Killian]

I would not say all 21 of them will get drafted, but yes Killian, pretty close to that. That has NOTHING to do with homerism, it's a fact. Since you seem to disagree with that, which of those players that I said will be drafted do you think will NOT get drafted. You can't just argue my statements without saying WHY I'm wrong.

As for Tate, I agree to an extent. He'll get drafted in the 4th or 5th round, though. His size will hurt him in the NFL though. But hey, he's a hard working kid and you never know. Don't kid yourself, he does have a good arm. It's better than some give him credit for. And this year, he's learned to throw in the pocket a lot better. That will help his NFL stock. He's also more mobile than people realize. He's good at handling a blitz and eluding pressure and he makes good decisions. He does need to show more consistency with his deep ball, however.

And one last mother fucking time for those of you that can not comprehend the Enlish language.......I AM NOT, AND NEVER HAVE, BLAMED THE OFFICIALS FOR IOWA LOSING!! WE LOST BECAUSE OF PLAYCALLING AND MISTAKES. NOT BECAUSE OF THE REFS. IF WE HAD ENDED UP WINNING THE GAME, I WOULD STILL BE ON HERE BITCHING ABOUT THE OFFICIALS BECAUSE REFS DESERVE TO BE CALLED OUT WHEN THEY DO A POOR JOB. COMPRENDER???

JON, it's not fact, it's your opinion. Projecting draft positions for soph's is silly. Off the top of my head, I would say that Mattison, Hodge, Tate and Schlicher won't get drafted. Hinkle may get drafted. No matter how good you think these guys are, they have the fact that the last skill position player Iowa put into the NFL for any period of time was Tim Dwight. They will have to have outstanding combines to even get looked at. Even if they do, there will be other players that teams take fliers on before they look at Iowa skill position talent.

[TheJON]

Hodge won't get drafted? Are you kidding me? He's going to be a 1st rounder probably. Early 2nd at the latest.

As for Tate, I think some team will take him in the later rounds.

And what does Iowa's skill position players from the past have to do with anything? You're right, we haven't had many skill guys make it in the NFL, but things have changed. We're doing a much better job of bringing in top quality athletes. You can't base the future draft picks on the lack of draft picks in the past. Heck, just look at how many Iowa players have been drafted the last 3 years. We're getting quite a few first-day picks each year. Nothing against Hayden Fry, who was a great coach, but he never brought in the athletes that Ferentz has. That's why you're seeing more Iowa guys get drafted. Trust me, Kirk Ferentz is well known and respected around the NFL. Being coached by him does not hurt your draft chances.

[indyfrisco]

Trust me, Kirk Ferentz is well known and respected around the NFL.

These are the types of comments that just make me ROTFLMAO!

[Killian]

Because it's perception. Iowa skill players haven't done shit in the NFL. If it comes down to an Iowa skill position player versus a Miami, Michigan or even VaTech skill position player, the team will take a chance on the guy from the above mentioned 3 teams before they will the guy from Iowa. As far as Hodge goes, the NFL isn't to high on taking RB's with a history of knee injuries.

Let me ask you a question JON. Do you think Darius Walker will be drafted? And if he is drafted, where do you think he will go?

[buckeye_in_sc]

Jon are you always this bitter after teams beat your ass? I would guess OSU has a better defense than Iowa's offense? Or how about tOSU's offense better than Iowa's since A) we hung 31 on your sorry asses, or B) is the Iowa offense and defense that bad?

Iowa players suck in the NFL...period...

[TheJON]

Walker is a Soph, correct? He'd probably get drafted maybe 3rd round even if he came out this year, so in 2 years, should be a high pick. He looks a bit small, or maybe that's the TV. Looks about 5'9, maybe 5'10 tops. That could hurt his chances. Definitely has the speed, quickness, and ability to break tackles. I haven't seen him catch too many passes, but maybe that's just the games I've watched. If he shows the ability to catch the ball otu of the backfield, I see no reason why he couldn't be a 1st day pick. Who knows though! Who would have ever thought Julius Jones would have turned out like he did especially after flunking out of school his JR year.

You are correct in a sense on the perception, but trust me, if you can play ball, the NFL doesn't give a damn what school you go to. There really are only a few schools (Miami, FSU, etc) where you will see a player go ahead of another because they attended that school. But 95% of the players taken are taken because of what type of player they are and not the school they attended. When you get to the combine, those scouts couldn't give a rip if you attended Michigan or if you attended Furman. If you got game, they got a place for you.


And Frisco,

Why is that statement so hilarious? You're right, Ferentz isn't well respected around the NFL. That's why 7-8 NFL teams over the past few years have tried to interview him and that's why he's buddies with Bill Belichek and other members of the Patriots coaching staff. But you're right, he's not well respected in the NFL. Moron.

[Killian]

See JON, this is the difference between you and I. I love Darius Walker, but if he came out right now, he wouldn't get drafted. And if he stayes through his Sr year, I bet if he gets drafted, it will be in the 5th round or later. He's quick enough for the college game, but he lacks top end speed and is tripped up to easily by opposing teams. He'll be a solid college player and pick up a few years worth of NFL checks, but he isn't anywhere close to being a first day pick. Unless he does something to drastically change his speed, he won't be a running back in the NFL.

As far as Julius Jones goes, I did. I knew it the first time I saw him take a hand off in his first game against Kansas. The Sporting News knew it too, naming him as one of two backs for the all next decade team. But after Davie made him gain weight his Soph and Junior seasons, you could tell he lost his quickness and wasn't going to do anything. When he came back for his 5th year, I saw one practice and knew he would be a first round pick. And he almost was, despite Willingham's best efforts to split the carries with Ryan Grant.

And you're right, the NFL doesn't care where you came from as long as you can play. But right now, the preception with NFL teams is that Iowa is not producing any skill position players, so until someone comes out and changes that preception, they won't get drafted where they should. Call it the David Givens syndrome.

[indyfrisco]

It's the leading "Trust me" that I was laughing at. You know dick about how Ferentz is "known and respected" in the NFL yet you throw that "trust me" on there as if you're a fly on the wall in Taglibue's office.

[WolverineSteve]

This must be archived and brought back post-draft.

If we just had a bit more ammo for the jon=bitch campaign.

[TheJON]

Hate the game, not the playa. Nuttin' but a bunch of hataz!

[indyfrisco]

Snoop Jon in da hizouse.

[peter dragon]

as one of the resident bengal, fans on this board, Eric Stienbach has regressed this season.

FUCK IOWA!

[TheJON]

Injuries will do that to you. He had a solid first 2 years though.