T1B

OUMO wrote:What would a Mizzu fan know about football? :twisted:

Or grammar?

People who think Vince Young is some New & Improved passer this year are simply watching him with rose colored glasses. He's still horrible. His best completions are still so often nothing more than under thrown jump balls where his 6'4" receiver beats the 5'9" defender by coming back to the errant throw and then outleaping the defender for the ball.

How many overthrown side armed slings do you people need to see before you'll realize he's still just Vince Young? He's a fortunate beneficiary of being the trigger man for a Texas team that has such an overwhelming physical advantage over their Big XII opponents that being the QB for Texas right now allows even Vince Young to put up good throwing numbers.

The guy is horrible as a thrower. Horrible. He is not going to play QB in the NFL. You can say all you want that a good college QB doesn't necessarily have to make for a good NFL QB but all you're saying there is when you're in the right system in college the system and the surrounding talent will mask your deficiencies.

If you're truly a good QB it'll translate at the next level. He's not, so it won't.

Van wrote:he's simply forced to run the ball more himself.

2004-

Rushing attempts- 167 Yards- 1079

2005-

Rushing Attempts- 128 Yards- 793


Boom goes the dynamite?


Oh, and by the way...how 'bout those 2005 QB ratings after todays game?

1. Vince Young, Texas 168.6
2. Brian Brohm, Louisville 166.7
3. Drew Olson, UCLA 165.2
4. Brady Quinn, Notre Dame 162.9
5. Matt Leinart, Southern California 158.2

:wink:

If Texas beats USC...

Vince Young > Jason White

Sucks to admit it but it's true. I'm only able to say this without vurping because Adrian Peterson is better than both of them.

Prime, despite what the passer ratings say you're not going to seriously compare Vince Young to Matt Leinart as a passer. You know it and I know it and Vito knows and every last scout in America knows it.

Matt Leinart had his worst throwing day in recent memory today. He was overthrowing everybody...and still he looked world's better than Young as a passer.

^^^^^

You lose credibility with that post. Vince may not be as good a passer as Leinart on most days but today he was better.

Just sayin'

Van wrote:Prime, despite what the passer ratings say you're not going to seriously compare Vince Young to Matt Leinart as a passer. You know it and I know it and Vito knows and every last scout in America knows it.

No doubt about that in my eyes passing wise, but look at the weapons Matt has compared to Vince on the offensive side of the ball and look what Vince has accomplished this year.

War stat paper 'bode.

The Vince hating makes me laugh.

War Stoops wrote:^^^^^

You lose credibility with that post. Vince may not be as good a passer as Leinart on most days but today he was better.

Just sayin'

When Leinart overthrows somebody you're genuinely surprised. He looks so good throwing the ball.

When Vince overthrows somebody you just laugh. He sometimes looks like some guy who won a raffle to come down onto the field at half time to attempt a pass through a car tire for the chance to win a Dodge Dakota...

Van wrote: And that point is STILL the same as last year in that White was still a better passer than Young is NOW and Peterson is still a better runner than Young is NOW.

This is where you are high. Jason was a dual threat QB until he blew out his knee for the 3rd time. He became a pocket passer and did a good job. What was missing was his ability to scramble. That made him dangerous. Vince can run and you will see plenty of both on the 4th

Van wrote: The main point in this thread was that White and OU couldn't have gone into Columbus and won; that it took the incredible leadership and improved skills of Vince Young to pull off such a miraculous feat. (Never mind the fact that PSU also beat OSU...)

It's bullshit. Texas did it so there's every reason in the world to believe last year's OU could've done it too.

You base a ton of your arguments on what OU did this year. These are 2 totally different teams. You obviously don't watch much of Texas because if you did you would know that last year they had a ton of Freshman who played WR that couldn't catch a cold. They look pretty good this year. Still, going in to Columbus and winning is a big deal. PSU is #3 in the BSC so your argument loses credibility. OSU lost to #2 and #3. Thatain't too bad.

Van wrote:Vince Young isn't that much better this year than last year. He still looks brutal as a passer and because there's no Cedric Benson around this year he's simply forced to run the ball more himself. The main difference between this year and last year isn't some night and day difference in Vince Young, it's that OU no longer has the experience and talent they had last year so Texas received a free pass this year.

Yeah, the #1 rated passer in the NCAA sucks. :roll:. He depended on Cedric last year because he had zero in wide receivers. Limas Sweed, Billy Pittman and Quan Cosby are all getting better. Quan is a true Freshman. Limas and Billy got experience last year as first time starters. They are much improved and so is Vince. We also have Ramonce Taylor and Jamaal Charles. All we had last year was Vince, Cedric and David Thomas. It was good enough to go 11-1 and win the Rose Bowl. That added depth and experience will be enought to win it again.

Stop with the OU arguments. We are Texas not OU. You look dumber and dumber with your constant comparisons. If you want to argue football then learn about the other team and stop comparing them to a team that they beat like a red headed SC fan.

Van wrote:Last year's OU team shut out Texas. Vince Young is still just Vince Young and none of their current RBs can even carry Cedric Benson's jock.

Stop. See above post.

Van wrote:Everybody said USC "exposed" White and OU's D last year. Yeah, they did. They did. Texas and Vince Young didn't. Now, just sit back and wait for what we see on this board at around 10:00pm, PST, on January 4, 2006.

All we're going to see here is people saying, "See, I TOLD you Texas was another Big XII paper tiger! They never even get to the Rose Bowl if they play in the SEC, ACC or Big 10! Look how amateurish they looked! Look how sloppy Vince Young looked! Another lame Big XII team got rolled by USC. Big deal.

PSU/OSU/Georgia with a healthy Shockley/whoever woulda beat USC.

"

Just sit back and watch. (Actually, to be fair, I've yet to find a Penn State fan who's like that so no, probably no PSU fans will come in here lipping off about how they would've rolled some weak Pac 10 team like USC...)

[/quote="Van"]

Van, I have been posting on this board or the combination of these boards for 7 years. One thing you will realize is that we always come correct. I had 5 years of losing to OU and always showed up.

I really hope that all SC fans think like you. I hope the coaches read some of your comments. All you talk about is OU. I think it is because that is all you have to go by. Kind of that sister syndrome. You know, you hear that one chick is easy so you ask her sister out and she is training to be a nun. Total opposites.

Texas 41
USC 37

Try not to misunderstand me... I'm not "hating on Vince Young." I think (I'm about to make myself sick...) that he's great for college football, and one of the best college QB's to come down the pipe in a while... I put him up there with Leinart, especially in terms of what he's meant to his team's successes and what he's done for the QB position in college.

...I just don't think that he's gonna stick as a QB in the pros. The things that make him a highly rated passer in college will be the things that work against his ability to pass in the pros.

I mean, I'm not a scout or anything, but he has a horrible motion, he tends to get a lot of air under his throws... especially to his backs and slot receivers... and we know what that means in the NFL.

Oskie.

Also, teams tend to spy him with multiple players in college, dropping those players out of coverage, especially when he's in a passing situation. Pro teams won't do that. The speed of the players in the pros is good enough that one player, if any, will able to effectively spy him. Also, defenses in the pros are exponentially better, and, unless he does his homework on teams, and on zones, he's gonna be screwed. All the "letting him be himself" in the world won't teach him how to read where the pressure is coming from in a 3-4 zone blitz.

He's a player who relies a great deal more on his athletic ability than on his knowledge of the game and of his teams offense / ability to read defenses. That won't fly in the pros. THAT is all I'm saying... Is he a great college player? Hell yes (bleh) he is. Second best in the country... and I've said this a lot around here... This is the college board. BUT, I'm talking about his pro prospects, not his college game.

the_ouskull

Harvdog wrote:

Van wrote: And that point is STILL the same as last year in that White was still a better passer than Young is NOW and Peterson is still a better runner than Young is NOW.

This is where you are high. Jason was a dual threat QB until he blew out his knee for the 3rd time. He became a pocket passer and did a good job. What was missing was his ability to scramble.

If anybody is high it's you since I clearly delineated between White and Peterson. I said White was a better passer than Young. I didn't say he was a better dual threat. He was a better passer, and Peterson is a better runner. Between the two there's your dual threat.

That made him dangerous. Vince can run and you will see plenty of both on the 4th

I have no doubt we'll see Young running for his life in the 4th. His running backs are going to get less than 100 yards and by the 4th quarter USC will be up by so much that Texas' offense will be reduced to Young ad libbing on every play, trying to escape the rush.

He'll get some yards, doubtless, but he'll also put the ball on the ground and into the midsection of Darnell Bing.

Van wrote: The main point in this thread was that White and OU couldn't have gone into Columbus and won; that it took the incredible leadership and improved skills of Vince Young to pull off such a miraculous feat. (Never mind the fact that PSU also beat OSU...)

It's bullshit. Texas did it so there's every reason in the world to believe last year's OU could've done it too.

You base a ton of your arguments on what OU did this year.

I base none of my arguments on what OU did this year. I base 'em on the fact that since Texas went into Columbus and won it's highly likely that last year's equally good (or better) OU team might've also done the same.

Anybody who argues that last year's OU team couldn't win in Columbus is being ridiculous. Maybe they would've won, maybe they would've lost, but Texas only beat OSU 25-22 and last year's OU team is certainly debatably as good as this year's Texas team so there's simply no way to say that only Vince Young could've pulled off such a win.

Asinine.

These are 2 totally different teams. You obviously don't watch much of Texas because if you did you would know that last year they had a ton of Freshman who played WR that couldn't catch a cold. They look pretty good this year.

None of which has anything to do with making a successful argument that says last year's OU team couldn't have accomplished what this year's Texas team accomplished.

You seem to've lost track of what's being debated here.

Still, going in to Columbus and winning is a big deal. PSU is #3 in the BSC so your argument loses credibility. OSU lost to #2 and #3. Thatain't too bad.

OSU is definitely good, especially now, later in the season. Winning in Columbus was of course good for Texas. Last year's OU team might've also done the same. Just sayin'.

Van wrote:Vince Young isn't that much better this year than last year. He still looks brutal as a passer and because there's no Cedric Benson around this year he's simply forced to run the ball more himself. The main difference between this year and last year isn't some night and day difference in Vince Young, it's that OU no longer has the experience and talent they had last year so Texas received a free pass this year.

Yeah, the #1 rated passer in the NCAA sucks. :roll:.

We all agree that he's nowhere near the passer that a Leinart, Quinn or Olsen is, so why keep trotting out his passing stats? Obviously those stats don't necessarily mean he's a great passer because he most obviously is not a great passer.

He's merely the beneficiary of his surrounding talent. Once the surrounding talent levels are equal Vince Young won't even get the opportunity to sling another side armed duck.

If Vince was a great passer and not just the beneficiary of playing the trigger position for an overwhelming Texas team he'd be a lock to move on to the NFL and continue his dominance.

You know he won't. He's never going to amount to shit as a real QB. Real QBs, QB's who are truly a cut above the competition, they can do it in the NFL. To argue otherwise is pointless. If he never amounts to anything once the talent levels are equal there's simply no way to defend against the argument that he's really not a great QB, he's just the beneficiary of having overwhelming surrounding talent.

College QBs who are dual threats are a dime a dozen and they almost never amount to anything once their advantages are removed and they're forced to play the position against equal competition.

For every Michael Vick (who's already the most overrated player in the NFL) there's a dozen Eric Crouchs and Tommy Fraziers.

He depended on Cedric last year because he had zero in wide receivers.

And because Cedric Benson was a better runner than anybody Texas has this year, including Vince Young.

Limas Sweed, Billy Pittman and Quan Cosby are all getting better. Quan is a true Freshman. Limas and Billy got experience last year as first time starters. They are much improved and so is Vince. We also have Ramonce Taylor and Jamaal Charles. All we had last year was Vince, Cedric and David Thomas. It was good enough to go 11-1 and win the Rose Bowl. That added depth and experience will be enought to win it again.

Unfortunately your opponent in this year's Rose Bowl won't again be a two loss Michigan team, whom you only beat by one point anyway.

This time, you're playing the best team in the nation and the team with quite possibly the greatest offense ever, and you're playing them in their de facto birth right, the Rose Bowl.

Bit different. :wink:

Stop with the OU arguments.

Nope. Not when clowns are saying only Vince Young could've gone into Columbus and led his team to victory. Last year's OU could've done it too, and obviously any of USC's teams from the past four years could've done it in Columbus this year too.

Pretty sure last year's Auburn team might've also been able to do it in Columbus this season.

We are Texas not OU.

Exactly. You're the team that needed OU to step aside and become completely average before you could move forward. OU is the team with all the recent national championships and national championship game appearances.

You're the team that could never beat Jason White.

You look dumber and dumber with your constant comparisons.

The comparison was put out there by someone other than me, when it was stated that only Vince Young could've won in Columbus.

Tackle that statement and then we'll be finished.

If you want to argue football then learn about the other team and stop comparing them to a team that they beat like a red headed SC fan.

The team I'm talking about shut out Texas. Shut 'em out. Zero points. A Bagel. Vince Young led Texas to precisely NO POINTS against that team, so I'm fairly confident THAT team might've ALSO been able to go into Columbus and win.

I KNOW USC is also capable of going into Columbus and winning.

Again, that was the statement that set this whole thing off, that only Vince Young could've led a team to victory in Columbus.

Van wrote:Last year's OU team shut out Texas. Vince Young is still just Vince Young and none of their current RBs can even carry Cedric Benson's jock.

Stop. See above post.

Yes. Stop, and see above posts.

Van, I have been posting on this board or the combination of these boards for 7 years. One thing you will realize is that we always come correct. I had 5 years of losing to OU and always showed up.

If you do, that'll be good.

Somehow though I doubt Vito would, not to me, not against USC. He'll blame it on his team being outcoached. (Despite the fact that I and many others have said Pete Carroll vs Mack Brown is just one of many big reasons that USC will roll Texas.)

He won't admit that USC is simply better, with better talent, better schemes, better execution, more experience and more poise.

Maybe you will. He won't.

I really hope that all SC fans think like you.

How we as mere fans think will have no bearing on the game itself so hope away.

I hope the coaches read some of your comments.

I do too. That'd be a hoot, the idea of the USC coaching staff logging onto some obscure offshoot BBS message board during their bowl game preparation.

I could just see it...

"Hey, Pete, wanna go check out some scat pics and some shots of hot Florida State sluts? I heard about this message board called 'T1B' and..."

"Steve, I'm all over that! Let's go!"

~together they peruse T1B~

"Hey, Steve, check it out. They have something called a 'Big Time College Football Forum' here too. You think they might mention our game against Texas? I'm not sure how we're gonna do in the Rose Bowl. Maybe they can tell us how it'll go?"

"Well, I'm at a loss. I have no idea what to think about our chances and I'm not about to break out any game film or do any prep work. Yeah, let's check it out."

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"Dude!! 'Van' and 'SoCalTrjn' say we're better than Texas! They say we're gonna win, and win big!"

"Really, they do?? Fuck, what a relief!"

"Wait. This guy 'Vito' says Vince Young is way better than last year and that Texas is better off not having Cedric Benson anymore. He says we haven't seen talent like Texas has, especially since we play in the weak ass Pac 10..."

"Man! What if he's right? Hoooo, I never stopped to consider Texas' players, or how we'd better figure out a way to beat Vince Young."

"Hold on, hold on...'Van' says you're a better coach than Mack Brown, and that Vince won't amount to a warm puddle of piss as an NFL QB. He says we have better coaching, more experience, more poise and better talent. He says we have Matt Leinart and Reggie Bush, and they don't."

"Hmmm, I think he's right. We DO have Reggie and Matt, don't we? Who do they have?"

"Dunno. They haven't discussed the rest of the Texas roster all that much. Think we should read some more here and find out about 'em?"

"Nah. 'Van' says we're gonna roll Texas. Good enough for me. I'm feeling pretty confident now. Let's skip practice today and go grab some Hooters chicks and go play some naked frisbie golf..."

"Sweet! I love coaching here."