T1B

Killian wrote:

Van wrote:You're simply attempting to mitigate the damage of your losses while having no advantage in wins. Oregon doesn't need to do mitigate their single loss and their wins are equally good and greater in number.

To me, haveing a 1-AA team on your schedule is as bad as an extra loss. I'm not saying this specifically this year because of Oregon, but in general. The fact they allowed those to count as BCS eligible wins is a crock.

So, following up on that train of thought, are you also willing to count as a loss all those OOC cream puff home games against North By Northwest Appalachian State that so many SEC and Big XII teams use to pad their W-L records practically every season?

Degenerate wrote:

Van wrote: In terms of on field performance this year Notre Dame has nothing on which to hang their hat, compared to Oregon.

Feel free to list Oregon's quality wins this year, starting with teams currently ranked in the AP/USA Today/BCS top 25.

Hint: you won't get very far.

Hint: Their overall record, including the teams they beat, still surpasses ND's...even according to the BCS, which has Oregon ranked above ND.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

Killian wrote:

Van wrote:You're simply attempting to mitigate the damage of your losses while having no advantage in wins. Oregon doesn't need to do mitigate their single loss and their wins are equally good and greater in number.

To me, haveing a 1-AA team on your schedule is as bad as an extra loss. I'm not saying this specifically this year because of Oregon, but in general. The fact they allowed those to count as BCS eligible wins is a crock.

I could be wrong, but I always thought you needed 9 wins against 1-A opponents to be BCS eligible. So in that regard, from the BCS' standpoint, a win against a 1-AA squad is the equivalent of a loss (except, of course, that it doesn't have the corresponding negative impact upon poll/computer rankings).

Under that scenario it would be tantamount to a bye, not a loss.

Then it should be no problem to find just one quality win in there that puts ND to shame.

Anytime you're ready to list one, feel free.

Van wrote:So, following up on that train of thought, are you also willing to count as a loss all those OOC cream puff home games against North By Northwest Appalachian State that so many SEC and Big XII teams use to pad their W-L records practically every season?

Is North by Northwest Appalachian State a D1 team? If they are, I have no problem with them being on the schedule. If 1-AA, they shouldn't be there.

First off, I'm a diehard Ducks fan. And I haven't bitched once about the missed at-large. Not here, not in "real life." The Ducks played Houston and Montana (which they do every few years, since they were an old rival wayyy back when, just like U of O plays Idaho every few years, leftover from the old Pacific Coast Conference). You roll the dice on the old traditional rivalries, you take your chances. The dice came up bad this year. Oh well.


BUT...somebody is KTOA in this thread --

Terry in Crapchester wrote: Michigan State was not a bad team at the time. They went as high as #14, IIRC, in the polls two weeks after the ND game. And they were dominating Ohio State heading into halftime.

Then the revisionist goes into

What's the closest Oregon came to a quality win? A 7-point win at home over a 4-loss Cal team? Or a 3-point win at home over a Fresno State team

Now we know how you REALLY feel about ND's berth -- you feel guilty, if you're rolling this absolute line of bullshit to defend your team.


PSSST! Fresno St was ranked(and undefeated) when they played Oregon. Arizona St was ranked when they played Oregon. Cal was ranked when they played Oregon.

Feeling like an excuse-making douchebag yet? You should.

"Well since ND played a team that was ranked at the time, they deserve it more than Oregon, who played several more teams that were ranked at the time than ND did."

What the fuck sort of convoluted logic is THAT?

Yup, ND got the BCS berth...BODE ND! I, and most other Oregon fans are cool with that. BUT...you applying your logic sporadically, when by YOUR LOGIC the team that you're claiming BODE over actually has a great deal more BODE, according to the Terry in Fantasyland Points System...well, that was just plain dumb. Really dumb, and more than a little ill-informed.

that couldn't even close out the WAC against Nevada and Louisiana Tech in the last two weeks, and which recorded a total of five of its eight wins against a 1-AA team (Weber State) and four conference opponents (Utah State, San Jose State, Idaho and New Mexico State) who posted a combined record of 8-37?

Read what you wrote a few times Terry...then apologize for being such a dumbfuck.

"ND rocked because they lost to a losing team, but Oregon sucked because they beat a winning team who lost a couple of games later in the season. But the opponent ND lost to closed out the season with a flurry of losses, so ND rocks!"

Fucking stupid argument. Just take the berth and quit being dumb...really.

Dinsdale wrote:BUT...somebody is KTOA in this thread --

Terry in Crapchester wrote: Michigan State was not a bad team at the time. They went as high as #14, IIRC, in the polls two weeks after the ND game. And they were dominating Ohio State heading into halftime.

Then the revisionist. . .

Revisionist? How so? Can you dispute anything I wrote up there? No, you can't.

. . . goes into

What's the closest Oregon came to a quality win? A 7-point win at home over a 4-loss Cal team? Or a 3-point win at home over a Fresno State team

Now we know how you REALLY feel about ND's berth -- you feel guilty, if you're rolling this absolute line of bullshit to defend your team.


PSSST! Fresno St was ranked(and undefeated) when they played Oregon. Arizona St was ranked when they played Oregon. Cal was ranked when they played Oregon.

PSSST! Pitt was ranked (and undefeated) when they played ND. Purdue was ranked when they played ND. Michigan State (the one loss everybody loves to pound ND for) was ranked (and undefeated) when they played ND. Michigan was ranked #3 (and undefeated) when they played ND.

So what's your point?

Feeling like an excuse-making douchebag yet? You should.

No. See above.

"Well since ND played a team that was ranked at the time, they deserve it more than Oregon, who played several more teams that were ranked at the time than ND did."

What the fuck sort of convoluted logic is THAT?

Open mouth, insert rectum. You obviously know nothing about ND's schedule, or you wouldn't even attempt to make a comment like this.

that couldn't even close out the WAC against Nevada and Louisiana Tech in the last two weeks, and which recorded a total of five of its eight wins against a 1-AA team (Weber State) and four conference opponents (Utah State, San Jose State, Idaho and New Mexico State) who posted a combined record of 8-37?

Read what you wrote a few times Terry...then apologize for being such a dumbfuck.

"ND rocked because they lost to a losing team, but Oregon sucked because they beat a winning team who lost a couple of games later in the season. But the opponent ND lost to closed out the season with a flurry of losses, so ND rocks!"

Apples and oranges. I respond to one of Van's points, i.e., criticizing ND for the Michigan State loss. Then I respond to another of his points, i.e., ND has no quality wins. They're different points, yet you read them as if they're responding to the same points. Talk about taking an argument out of context.

Fucking stupid argument. Just take the berth and quit being dumb...really.

Maybe you should take your own advice. Just sayin'.

Degenerate wrote:Then it should be no problem to find just one quality win in there that puts ND to shame.

Anytime you're ready to list one, feel free.

Cal and Fresno State are right on par with four loss Michigan, which is ND's lone calling card win.

Hate to agree with Vito here but like he said two loss ND's calling card this season is a game they lost, and Oregon's only loss is to that same team.

I doubt Michigan would tank to Nevada and La Tech or 5-6 OSU.

There's really no comparing FSU or Cal to Michigan.

Spinach Genie wrote:I doubt Michigan would tank to Nevada and La Tech or 5-6 OSU.

There's really no comparing FSU or Cal to Michigan.

This year, there really is.

Michigan has four losses, Cal has four losses. Cal was ranked in the Top 25 most of the season, and so was Michigan.

Bottom line, the final BCS ranking has Oregon ranked above ND so even the BCS doesn't feel ND would necessarily destroy Oregon. This pervasive notion 'round here that ND by birthright would simply roll a one loss, #5 Oregon team is just nonsense.

For all any of us know Oregon would roll ND, just like Oregon State twice rolled ND in their two recent bowl match ups.

Van wrote:This pervasive notion 'round here that ND by birthright would simply roll a one loss, #5 Oregon team is just nonsense.

Sounds very much like USC fans' constant assurances they would have blown out LSU.

If a team of little Bushes played a game against God...

Van wrote:This pervasive notion 'round here that ND by birthright would simply roll a one loss, #5 Oregon team is just nonsense.

Maybe it's because of my bias, but I see no such "pervasive notion 'round here." In fact, if anything, the "pervasive notion 'round here" that I see is just the opposite -- that Oregon got jobbed by the BCS.

Van wrote: Cal and Fresno State are right on par with four loss Michigan, which is ND's lone calling card win.

Hate to agree with Vito here but like he said two loss ND's calling card this season is a game they lost, and Oregon's only loss is to that same team.

Reading is not your strong suit, obviously. I didn't ask for "on par." You said this:

Van wrote:In terms of on field performance this year Notre Dame has nothing on which to hang their hat, compared to Oregon.

I asked you who Oregon beat this year that verifies this statement. You named two four-loss teams, neither of which are markedly better - if at all - than the four-loss Michigan you love to denigrate. That's it? That's what Oregon is hanging it's hat on, according to you?

The way most people see it, the schedule issue is a wash. Both UO and ND had schedules that looked tougher at the beginning of the season than they ultimately were. And Oregon, unfortunately, did not get to play UCLA, which ended up being one of the conference's better teams this year. Them's the breaks. Take that one up at the Pac-10 offices.

Btw, please stop pimping Oregon's loss to USC as if that should somehow work in their favor in getting a BCS bid. Oregon gave up 45 unanswered. It wasn't even close. I'm pretty sure Duck fans are trying to forget that game, not use it as fodder in their Fiesta Bowl beef.

OTOH, if you're trolling as ConferenceHomer, you're doing a bang-up job.

Spinach Genie wrote:

Van wrote:This pervasive notion 'round here that ND by birthright would simply roll a one loss, #5 Oregon team is just nonsense.

Sounds very much like USC fans' constant assurances they would have blown out LSU.

Find me a single quote from either myself or Meds where we ever said USC would've "blown out" LSU.

Maybe some other USC fans might've said such a thing but I'm pretty sure Meds never did and I know I never did.

All I said is I'm pretty confident USC would've beaten both LSU in '03 and Auburn last year. Never said we definitely would've blown 'em out, which is all I keep hearing on this board right now from people about Notre Dame vs Oregon.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

Van wrote:This pervasive notion 'round here that ND by birthright would simply roll a one loss, #5 Oregon team is just nonsense.

Maybe it's because of my bias, but I see no such "pervasive notion 'round here." In fact, if anything, the "pervasive notion 'round here" that I see is just the opposite -- that Oregon got jobbed by the BCS.

That notion has definitely been posited here as well but still we're also getting 88 and Buc and a couple others coming in here saying how ND would wax Oregon.

The people who are talking about such a possible match up all seem to think it a foregone conclusion that ND would roll Oregon and I see no reason to make such an assumption. I'd be no more surprised to see Oregon roll ND as vice versa...

Van wrote:The people who are talking about such a possible match up all seem to think it a foregone conclusion that ND would roll Oregon and I see no reason to make such an assumption. I'd be no more surprised to see Oregon roll ND as vice versa...

Considering ND hasn't gotten "rolled" all year and Oregon has, I would.

Degenerate wrote:

Van wrote: Cal and Fresno State are right on par with four loss Michigan, which is ND's lone calling card win.

Hate to agree with Vito here but like he said two loss ND's calling card this season is a game they lost, and Oregon's only loss is to that same team.

Reading is not your strong suit, obviously. I didn't ask for "on par." You said this:

Van wrote:In terms of on field performance this year Notre Dame has nothing on which to hang their hat, compared to Oregon.

I asked you who Oregon beat this year that verifies this statement. You named two four-loss teams, neither of which are markedly better - if at all - than the four-loss Michigan you love to denigrate. That's it? That's what Oregon is hanging it's hat on, according to you?

Are you really this dense?

My quote clearly says NOTRE DAME has nothing on which to hang their hat, compared to Oregon. Meaning, the onus is on ND to show why they'd roll Oregon since that's what people here keep saying.

YOU then came in and said, "Oh yeah, who's Oregon beaten?" I said their wins are just as good as ND's, which they are.

The big difference here is Oregon only has one loss and Notre Dame has that additional loss to MSU, so ND had better at least have some extra compelling wins to offset that extra loss and their subsequent lower BCS ranking.

They don't.

The way most people see it, the schedule issue is a wash.

I see it that way too. So, again, the difference is in losses. They each share a loss to USC but Notre Dame has two losses, one of which came at home against a sub .500 team.

End of story.

Both UO and ND had schedules that looked tougher at the beginning of the season than they ultimately were.

True.

And Oregon, unfortunately, did not get to play UCLA, which ended up being one of the conference's better teams this year.

True. And Notre Dame did not get to play Penn State or Ohio State, which ended up being the Big 10's better teams this year. They only beat a four loss Michigan team.

Them's the breaks.

Exactly, so neither team can point to any marked advantage over the other....except for Oregon's fewer losses.

Take that one up at the Pac-10 offices.

The problem isn't the Pac 10. It's the BCS, which gave automatic bids to FSU, WVA and ND, all of whom are ranked lower by the BCS than Oregon. Once ND finished ranked sixth in the BCS Oregon's only chance was to beat out Ohio State for the one remaining At Large bid.

Oregon got screwed not by the Pac 10 but by stupid conference tie ins and the BCS's orgy with ND.

Btw, please stop pimping Oregon's loss to USC as if that should somehow work in their favor in getting a BCS bid. Oregon gave up 45 unanswered. It wasn't even close. I'm pretty sure Duck fans are trying to forget that game, not use it as fodder in their Fiesta Bowl beef.

Notre Dame lost their Game Of The Season to USC and that's their main drawing card for the BCS's sixth seed for them. Oregon lost to that same USC team after also leading them at the half...and that was the only game they lost all year.

I'm not pimping their loss, I'm pimping their lack of any other losses compared to ND's additional loss.

OTOH, if you're trolling as ConferenceHomer, you're doing a bang-up job.

If Oregon played in the Big 10 I'd still be saying they got screwed, compared to letting FSU, WVA and Notre Dame in...

I'd still have a bit of an issue with Ohio State getting in over Oregon but at least OSU is ranked above Oregon and OSU's two losses were close losses (one a road loss) to #'s 2 and 3. They didn't lose at home to a sub .500 team.

Van, do you have an issue with OSU getting the automatic birth (#4 BCS ranking) over Oregon?

Killian wrote:

Van wrote:The people who are talking about such a possible match up all seem to think it a foregone conclusion that ND would roll Oregon and I see no reason to make such an assumption. I'd be no more surprised to see Oregon roll ND as vice versa...

Considering ND hasn't gotten "rolled" all year and Oregon has, I would.

If Oregon played Notre Dame it wouldn't be at Notre Dame Stadium and ND wouldn't have an extra week (vs their opponent) to prepare for their Green Jerseys Armageddon Game Of The New Millenium.

It'd be at a neutral site bowl game, where teams form Oregon have destroyed ND the last two times such a meeting occured.

I'm not saying Oregon would necessarily roll ND. I'm just saying it's wildly presumptuous to assume ND would roll a higher ranked Oregon team in a bowl situation where ND has lost seven straight games.

People here are making predictions based on programs, not specific teams. They're just saying the ND jersey stomps the Oregon jersey, and they're disregarding the players in those jerseys and the coaches on both sides.

Killian wrote:Van, do you have an issue with OSU getting the automatic birth (#4 BCS ranking) over Oregon?

Not really, no. Only a little.

OSU beat better teams than ND or Oregon and their loss at home wasn't as bad as Oregon's loss at home to USC or ND's loss at home to MSU.

Make no mistake though, same as ND, OSU is fortunately getting to trade on their program's marquee value vs the lack of same with Oregon. Oregon and their one loss is being punished mainly for not being a marquee draw, otherwise they'd be in.

My main beef is with the automatic conference tie in bids. Last year with Pitt and this year with both FSU and WVA, over the BCS's fifth ranked team? Brutal.

Van wrote:

Killian wrote:

Van wrote:The people who are talking about such a possible match up all seem to think it a foregone conclusion that ND would roll Oregon and I see no reason to make such an assumption. I'd be no more surprised to see Oregon roll ND as vice versa...

Considering ND hasn't gotten "rolled" all year and Oregon has, I would.

If Oregon played Notre Dame it wouldn't be at Notre Dame Stadium and ND wouldn't have an extra week (vs their opponent) to prepare for their Green Jerseys Armageddon Game Of The New Millenium.

It'd be at a neutral site bowl game, where teams form Oregon have destroyed ND the last two times such a meeting occured.

I'm not saying Oregon would necessarily roll ND. I'm just saying it's wildly presumptuous to assume ND would roll a higher ranked Oregon team in a bowl situation where ND has lost seven straight games.

People here are making predictions based on programs, not specific teams. They're just saying the ND jersey stomps the Oregon jersey, and they're disregarding the players in those jerseys and the coaches on both sides.

Well, considering ND would have 4 weeks or more to prepare for Oregon, Oregon would be playing their 2nd or 3rd string QB, and ND has yet to be "rolled" all year, I think it would be much more of a surprise to see UO roll ND.

I guess we'll find out how ND will do in bowls with a different coach. If Davie or Willingham were still the coach, I'd agree with you. They're not, so I don't.

Van wrote:

And Oregon, unfortunately, did not get to play UCLA, which ended up being one of the conference's better teams this year.

True. And Notre Dame did not get to play Penn State or Ohio State, which ended up being the Big 10's better teams this year. They only beat a four loss Michigan team.

Of course, ND doesn't play in the Big Ten, so it's sort of presumptuous to think that they'd play either Ohio State or Penn State.

Ohio State will meet ND in the Fiesta Bowl for only the fifth time in history. That's rather surprising, considering that both schools are traditional powers and the campuses are in relatively close proximity (within 250 miles) of one another. Penn State was a regular on ND's schedule during the 80's and into the early 90's, but that series ended when Penn State joined the Big Ten and had to end certain rivalries to clear the slate to the point where they could carry a full conference schedule.

As luck would have it, we get Penn State next year.

The problem isn't the Pac 10. It's the BCS, which gave automatic bids to FSU, WVA and ND, all of whom are ranked lower by the BCS than Oregon. Once ND finished ranked sixth in the BCS Oregon's only chance was to beat out Ohio State for the one remaining At Large bid.

Actually, when Ohio State finished fourth in the BCS, they too got a guaranteed at-large bid. Oregon got screwed by the results of the ACC and SEC championship games; had either of those gone differently, the BCS at least would've had the discretion to consider them for an at-large bid.

And btw, if you're going to criticize the BCS' inclusion of FSU, WVU and ND, you probably ought to include UGa in that mix as well. Last time I checked, UGa had a lower BCS ranking than ND. Just sayin'.

Van wrote:All I said is I'm pretty confident USC would've beaten both LSU in '03 and Auburn last year. Never said we definitely would've blown 'em out, which is all I keep hearing on this board right now from people about Notre Dame vs Oregon.

I've never said that...I made a crack about Ohio State beating Oregon. I feel pretty confident about it, though.

Last season schedule was bandied about in Auburn's face as reason they were obviously odd man out for the Orange. This year, Oregon is receiving much the same, coupled with this simple college football truth. With the kind of fanbase the dome commands, if one can get them into a BCS bowl, one will get them into a BCS bowl. It's ratings, it's money, it's a big part of why OU/USC was the undisputed top matchup last year and Auburn played V Tech. Traditionals sell.

Difference last year though was that Auburn's record was the equal of USC's and OU's while ND's and OSU's records aren't the equal of Oregon's.

Believe me though, I'm like (most) everybody else here. Brass tacks, I'd rather watch ND-OSU too. On an intellectual level I just don't like what keeps happening to the Pac 10.

This year, Oregon gets screwed. Last year it was Cal. The year before that it was USC and in '01 it was Oregon.

Just once I wanna see the Big XII get screwed!! :-)

Basically, It comes down this...

The BCS Series is not a series... but a Championship Game.

Thus, the rest of the games are meaningless.

In a realistic world...

Oregon would be playing the best of the 2 loss teams... in a secondary bowl for #3 in the country.


m2

Nah, Penn State would have to come in ahead of Oregon regardless. You might argue though that Oregon should be playing PSU for #3 and that wouldn't be all that controversial...

Van wrote:Nah, Penn State would have to come in ahead of Oregon regardless. You might argue though that Oregon should be playing PSU for #3 and that wouldn't be all that controversial...

Now that's a game I'd like to see...

A 2 loss tOSU vs. a 2 loss ND would take a back burner to that game... for a true football fan.


the truth

I disagree. I'm excited to see PSU in any bowl, but Oregon would be the least attractive option among the possibilities. FSU is a team that easily could beat PSU, and there is a compelling coaching matchup as well.

m2 wrote:A 2 loss tOSU vs. a 2 loss ND would take a back burner to that game... for a true football fan.


the truth

No it wouldn't. Maybe to a windchime pedaling douche pump, but not to the majority of football fans.

"Douche pump", from Jimmy "Killian" Stewart??? Damn!!! Bwaaahahahaaa!!

Welcome to the forem, Van. Killian unleashes a wicked smack scimitar where appropriate.

I have this image of Killian as being a kindly old cross between Bob Weis and a bowl of oatmeal totin' Wilford Brimley.

Just could never picture Wilford Brimley calling somebody a "douche pump", so I was humorously taken aback and I laughed my ass off...

I've calmed down since I've stopped drinking. But Mr. Hyde shows himself now and then. :wink:

PSUFAN wrote:I disagree. I'm excited to see PSU in any bowl, but Oregon would be the least attractive option among the possibilities. FSU is a team that easily could beat PSU, and there is a compelling coaching matchup as well.

JoePa vs. Bobby Bowden is a nice story, although I'm not sure it's a "compelling coaching matchup" at this stage of their careers. It would have been, 15-20 years ago, or perhaps even 10 years ago, but both have seen better days. And I would say that Oregon would have a better shot at beating Penn State than FSU has.

That being said, FSU is probably a more attractive matchup for Penn State than Oregon would be because FSU has a much larger following on a national basis than Oregon has.

PSUFAN wrote:I disagree. I'm excited to see PSU in any bowl, but Oregon would be the least attractive option among the possibilities. FSU is a team that easily could beat PSU, and there is a compelling coaching matchup as well.

I dont blame you... it would put a damper on the season to have 10-1 Oregon blow you out!

It's best to play a pathetic FSU team that lost to Florida 36-0 in it's last regular season game...


m2

m2 wrote:It's best to play a pathetic FSU team that lost to Florida 36-0 in it's last regular season game...


m2

You sure do know your football, Nancy.