T1B

Posted: **Tue Mar 14, 2006 3:14 am**

Fat Bones wrote:
Diogenes wrote: As far as the original post, I guess the answer is a deafening silence.
Yeah........uh, sorry about that melting sidetrack, I couldn't have hit the trollbait harder if I had tried.

I believe the bible holds the mother's life in higher regard than the child's, as well as, holding her to a higher responsibilty, of course. However, I'm sure this particular verse you are quoting is not intending to endorse pregnent women refereeing UPC fights, nor birth control by death and dismemberment.

That's a 'abortion is icky' argument, not an 'abortion is murder' one. Rather like the differance between someone opposing homosexuality not because the Bible refers to it as an abomination or because it is an inhearantly pathological lifestyle, but just because a couple dudes swapping spit is gross.

True, but not relevant.

Fat Bones wrote:I wish we felt as compelled to force the mother and father to either raise their children properly or give it up for adoption, as we do about paying our taxes in this country. It would be a much needed step in the right (and correct) direction

And the state decides what is 'proper'?

Not a very American direction, to say the least.

I'm surprised nobody's pulled a 'blight upon our nation' or 'stench in the nostrils of God' argument.

Of course that would be confusing the symptom with the disease

Posted: **Tue Mar 14, 2006 9:40 am**

Exodus 21
[align=center] 22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.[/align]

Of course there is nothing here that would preclude the life of child to be ransomed with the life of the perp. It does not specify either the mother or the child. We both know premature birth almost certainly meant automatic death of the child back in those days, but it does not elaborate.

Diogenes wrote:
Fat Bones wrote:
Diogenes wrote: As far as the original post, I guess the answer is a deafening silence.
Yeah........uh, sorry about that melting sidetrack, I couldn't have hit the trollbait harder if I had tried.

I believe the bible holds the mother's life in higher regard than the child's, as well as, holding her to a higher responsibilty, of course. However, I'm sure this particular verse you are quoting is not intending to endorse pregnent women refereeing UPC fights, nor birth control by death and dismemberment.
That's a 'abortion is icky' argument, not an 'abortion is murder' one. Rather like the differance between someone opposing homosexuality not because the Bible refers to it as an abomination or because it is an inhearantly pathological lifestyle, but just because a couple dudes swapping spit is gross.

True, but not relevant.

Fat Bones wrote:I wish we felt as compelled to force the mother and father to either raise their children properly or give it up for adoption, as we do about paying our taxes in this country. It would be a much needed step in the right (and correct) direction
And the state decides what is 'proper'?

Not a very American direction, to say the least.

I'm surprised nobody's pulled a 'blight upon our nation' or 'stench in the nostrils of God' argument.

Of course that would be confusing the symptom with the disease

The disease is that we are teaching children that they are nothing more than an evolved tadpole, the lucky frog as it were. Therefore, life, or the life of another, is not all that special. If we are nothing more than a six foot stack of random cells that just assembled itself over eons, then the abortion of a child is nothing more than clipping a fingernail.

As far as the state deciding what's proper as far as child rearing, the courts have been doing this for quite awhile now. In Texas, we have the Department of Family and Protective Services. While neither are anywhere close to perfect systems, their proported function is to protect the innocent and the defenseless.

From these verses we can determine that a spirit filled life is underway in the womb:
Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.
Psalm 139:13
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.
Ecclesiastes 11:5
As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother's womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.
Isaiah 44:2
This is what the LORD says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, O Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.
Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."
Luke 1:41
When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:44
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

From these verses we can determine that the taking of a life must be repayed with the life of the taker:

Genesis 9:5,6

5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.

6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.

Posted: **Wed Mar 15, 2006 2:57 am**

Fat Bones wrote:Exodus 21
[align=center] 22 "If men who are fighting hit a pregnant woman and she gives birth prematurely [e] but there is no serious injury, the offender must be fined whatever the woman's husband demands and the court allows. 23 But if there is serious injury, you are to take life for life, 24 eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, 25 burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise.[/align]

Of course there is nothing here that would preclude the life of child to be ransomed with the life of the perp. It does not specify either the mother or the child. We both know premature birth almost certainly meant automatic death of the child back in those days, but it does not elaborate.

It doesn't need to, as you acknowledge premature birth and miscarriage were pretty much one and the same, and considered no serious injury and suitable for a fine.

Fat Bones wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
Fat Bones wrote: Yeah........uh, sorry about that melting sidetrack, I couldn't have hit the trollbait harder if I had tried.

I believe the bible holds the mother's life in higher regard than the child's, as well as, holding her to a higher responsibilty, of course. However, I'm sure this particular verse you are quoting is not intending to endorse pregnent women refereeing UPC fights, nor birth control by death and dismemberment.
That's a 'abortion is icky' argument, not an 'abortion is murder' one. Rather like the differance between someone opposing homosexuality not because the Bible refers to it as an abomination or because it is an inhearantly pathological lifestyle, but just because a couple dudes swapping spit is gross.

True, but not relevant.

Fat Bones wrote:I wish we felt as compelled to force the mother and father to either raise their children properly or give it up for adoption, as we do about paying our taxes in this country. It would be a much needed step in the right (and correct) direction
And the state decides what is 'proper'?

Not a very American direction, to say the least.

I'm surprised nobody's pulled a 'blight upon our nation' or 'stench in the nostrils of God' argument.

Of course that would be confusing the symptom with the disease
The disease is that we are teaching children that they are nothing more than an evolved tadpole, the lucky frog as it were. Therefore, life, or the life of another, is not all that special. If we are nothing more than a six foot stack of random cells that just assembled itself over eons, then the abortion of a child is nothing more than clipping a fingernail.

As far as the state deciding what's proper as far as child rearing, the courts have been doing this for quite awhile now. In Texas, we have the Department of Family and Protective Services. While neither are anywhere close to perfect systems, their proported function is to protect the innocent and the defenseless.

Now you're arguing against mandatory teaching of atheist dogma as 'science' in public schools.

Also valid, still not relevant.

And if the Texas buereaucrats are anything like the ones here in the People's Republic of Kali, their main calling (as opposed to their proported function) is destroying families, focusing on the economicly and socially defenseless.

I'll comment on the verses quoted seperatly a little later.

Posted: **Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:23 am**

Luke 1:41
When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:44
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

The baby in this case was the Son of God, kind of a special circumstance.

Psalm 22:10
From birth I was cast upon you; from my mother's womb you have been my God.
Psalm 139:13
For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb.
Ecclesiastes 11:5
As you do not know the path of the wind, or how the body is formed in a mother's womb, so you cannot understand the work of God, the Maker of all things.
Isaiah 44:2
This is what the LORD says— he who made you, who formed you in the womb, and who will help you: Do not be afraid, O Jacob, my servant, Jeshurun, whom I have chosen.
Jeremiah 1:5
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

These deal with God's foreknowledge of all things, and soverignty, not whether a fetus has a soul, or whether it's death is the same as a post partum-child.

From these verses we can determine that the taking of a life must be repayed with the life of the taker:

Genesis 9:5,6

5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of his fellow man.

6 "Whoever sheds the blood of man,
by man shall his blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made man.

Good argument for the death penelty.

Still irrelevant ti whether a fetus has the same value as a child.

And I still see no scriptural evidence for prenatal damnation, or any reason such kids wouldn't go straight to heaven. And if we are living in the last days, that would probably be preferable to a life sentance on the Late Great Planet Earth.

Posted: **Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:53 am**

Uncle Fester wrote:
Now you're arguing against mandatory teaching of atheist dogma as 'science' in public schools.
Rack.

Rack II

Posted: **Fri Mar 17, 2006 5:01 am**

Diogenes wrote:Luke 1:41
When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:44
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

The baby in this case was the Son of God, kind of a special circumstance.

The whole premise of the Christ dying for our sins is that He became a natural man and suffered as we do...besides the baby here is John the Baptist.

Posted: **Sat Mar 18, 2006 1:12 am**

Fat Bones wrote:
Diogenes wrote:Luke 1:41
When Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
Luke 1:44
As soon as the sound of your greeting reached my ears, the baby in my womb leaped for joy.

The baby in this case was the Son of God, kind of a special circumstance.

The whole premise of the Christ dying for our sins is that He became a natural man and suffered as we do...besides the baby here is John the Baptist.

Yeah I guess posting and watching basketball at the same time wasn't such a good idea.

Still in this case John was a Nazerite and a prophet of God consencrated from birth, having a physiological reaction to the presence of the Son of God is still an exceptional case.

T1B

!!! Abortion !!!