T1B

poptart wrote: Where is the plane, and where are the people, cockbreath...?

We've been thu this. Try paying attention some time. If the PE shows that a VW hits a wall asking where a missing semi-truck went is not relevant, is a distraction and hence a fallacy.

titlover,
You are one stupid cunt. Again. Not relevant as it is not physical evidence. My only contention is that the PE does not match the explanation.

BTW- You got a list for those hundreds on witnesses? Watch out that might be a trick question.

Back on the subject of the video and the teacher:

After viewing the video, I've got to say that it was 100% inappropriate for an 8th grade class.

If a teacher himself was caught using the word "asshole" repeatedly in an 8th grade lesson, he'd be reprimanded/suspended.

If he was showing a movie in which the word was repeatedly used, most districts would probably require parental permission slips explaining the context of the material and how the word was used.

Furthermore, forcing his 8th grade students to view unabashed political propaganda was inexcusable, regardless of how one feels about Bush & Co. The class was a mandatory one at the junior high level, not a college elective. The kids don't have the world experience or personal/political maturity to know that their teacher is giving them politically slanted material that they have a right to disagree with.

I've said this before: it is the teacher's job to teach according to the district/state standards and leave his/her personal politics at the entrance to the school property. This teacher went way the hell over the line in using vulgar material that was blatantly biased in a public school junior high classroom. Period.

Mike the Lab Rat wrote:This teacher went way the hell over the line in using vulgar material that was blatantly biased in a public school junior high classroom. Period.

I got to go with Machiavelli on this one. The ends justify the means. Not the logically soundest argument I've ever made, but this teacher gets a pass from me.

It would (almost, but not quite) be one thing if this was a social studies class. It's a science course, and veering so far away from the required curriculum is not only a waste of the students' time, it's a waste of taxpayer money.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:... it's a waste of taxpayer money.

Now that's just not true. Bush is a deficit disaster. Kids will be paying for that disaster. It would save the audience $ to understand what an asshole Bush is.

Bush isn't even relevant in this situation. A kid goes to science class to learn about science, not about politics. Case-fucking-closed. If Johnny moves on to college and didn't learn a damn thing in biology class because his teacher was too busy teaching him how to call people names, then the teacher wasted time and money. That part of it isn't even debatable. It's an instrinsic fact that the teacher spent time away from the required cirriculum, which is inappropriate, and a blatant misuse of educational funding.

Why does everything have to be political with you people? Try being a rationalist for once...and if you wind up on the "left" side, so be it, if you wind up on the "right" side, so be it. If you wind up in the middle, fabulous. You're so caught up with making sure your viewpoints are aligned with a particular side, that you stop thinking rationally.

What's more, what kind of frigging loser has to get his self-esteem from jamming his political views down the throats of a captive 13-year-old audience? If the guy had any guts or intellectual weight, he'd be using his energies on folks who could debate him, discuss the points with him, etc.

It's not even like the kids are going to be able to vote for another 5 years or so. Indoctrinating them now is pretty damned pointless.

And I hadn't realized that the guy was a science teacher until now. In that case, he should be dismissed for what he did.

Mike the Lab Rat wrote:Back on the subject of the video and the teacher:

After viewing the video, I've got to say that it was 100% inappropriate for an 8th grade class.

If a teacher himself was caught using the word "asshole" repeatedly in an 8th grade lesson, he'd be reprimanded/suspended.

If he was showing a movie in which the word was repeatedly used, most districts would probably require parental permission slips explaining the context of the material and how the word was used.

Furthermore, forcing his 8th grade students to view unabashed political propaganda was inexcusable, regardless of how one feels about Bush & Co. The class was a mandatory one at the junior high level, not a college elective. The kids don't have the world experience or personal/political maturity to know that their teacher is giving them politically slanted material that they have a right to disagree with.

I've said this before: it is the teacher's job to teach according to the district/state standards and leave his/her personal politics at the entrance to the school property. This teacher went way the hell over the line in using vulgar material that was blatantly biased in a public school junior high classroom. Period.

Unlike the incident in Colorado, I have to totaly agree with Mike on this one. This particular teacher pole vaulted over the line.

BTW: Today is the 263rd birthday of one Thomas Jefferson. I'll be sure to read some Fawn Brodie tonight in his honor. ;)

Moving Sale wrote:

poptart wrote: Where is the plane, and where are the people, cockbreath...?

We've been thu this. Try paying attention some time. If the PE shows that a VW hits a wall asking where a missing semi-truck went is not relevant, is a distraction and hence a fallacy.

titlover,
You are one stupid cunt. Again. Not relevant as it is not physical evidence. My only contention is that the PE does not match the explanation.

BTW- You got a list for those hundreds on witnesses? Watch out that might be a trick question.

so landing gear from a 747 is NOT evidence of a 747 hitting the pentagon? rock solid logic there.

I hope to Christ you're not a defense attny. If I had to settle for you to defend me I think I'd try it myself.

Mike the Lab Rat wrote:debate him, discuss the points with him, etc

That's what's even more pathetic. He didn't even try to make this thing educationally constructive in any way, shape or form. The basis for it was anger and hate only, and the best he could muster was stooping to the Tim Duncan level of eloquence.

BSmack wrote:BTW: Today is the 263rd birthday of one Thomas Jefferson. I'll be sure to read some Fawn Brodie tonight in his honor. ;)

I'll be hoisting a Scotch or two back tonight in TJ's honor.

(I'll try to let the Fawn Brodie crack slide by...)

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Case-fucking-closed.

Not this case. Look at it this way. Bush says he has certain power that he would not have if the times were not what they are. Same goes for this teacher. Bush has put the country in a place where things that are usually out of bounds are no longer out of bounds. Desperate times......

titlover wrote: so landing gear from a 747 is NOT evidence of a 747 hitting the pentagon? rock solid logic there.

Listen up you slimy cunt. It was 757 that was said to have hit the building. Get your fucking facts straight before you open up your fucking dickhole. And the landing gear, show me a pic of landing gear from the correct type of 757 in the rubble.

And where is you list of witnesses you fucking moron?

Mike the Lab Rat wrote:It's not even like the kids are going to be able to vote for another 5 years or so. Indoctrinating them now is pretty damned pointless.

No it isn't. They have mouths. Those mouths talk to voters. Bush should be drawn and quartered in '07 and the repugs aren't going to do it 'cause he didn't get a hummer in the oval office. Face it, Bush fucked up so bad that he deserves this treatment which, if it happened to almost any other POTUS, would be way out of bounds. Desperate times...

Moving Sale wrote:

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Case-fucking-closed.

Not this case. Look at it this way. Bush says he has certain power that he would not have if the times were not what they are. Same goes for this teacher. Bush has put the country in a place where things that are usually out of bounds are no longer out of bounds. Desperate times......

no, the Constitution says he has those powers. the teacher? well, you'll have to read thru his union contract.


keep tryin' shorty.

titlover wrote: no, the Constitution says he has those powers.

You want to go toe to toe over Article 2 visa vie Bush's actions, you dripping vaginal slit?

Go ahead, make my day.

Sudden Sam wrote:Good tune, regardless.

rack.

Moving Sale wrote:

Mike the Lab Rat wrote:This teacher went way the hell over the line in using vulgar material that was blatantly biased in a public school junior high classroom. Period.

I got to go with Machiavelli on this one. The ends justify the means. Not the logically soundest argument I've ever made, but this teacher gets a pass from me.

Why do you feel so threatened by the right that you insist students be exclusively subjected to the strong positions of the left?

If you AREN'T threatened, then explain why it's necessary for teachers like this guy and that whackjob a few miles away of me (Bennish) to continue to give slanted lectures.

WhatsMyName wrote: Why do you feel so threatened by the right that you insist students be exclusively subjected to the strong positions of the left?

I never said that. Why must you right wing wackos lie so much?

Moving Sale wrote:

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Case-fucking-closed.

Not this case. Look at it this way. Bush says he has certain power that he would not have if the times were not what they are. Same goes for this teacher. Bush has put the country in a place where things that are usually out of bounds are no longer out of bounds. Desperate times......

Once again, Bush has absolutely NOTHING to do with this situation. What Bush has or hasn't done to this country is completely irrelevant. Besides, everything this teacher had on Bush still just essentially amounts to an opinion. Further, there are plenty of designed forums to get your "message" out, and a high school science class just isn't one of them. Aside from it being inappropriate, it's just flat out unnecessary.

Moving Sale wrote:

titlover wrote: no, the Constitution says he has those powers.

You want to go toe to toe over Article 2 visa vie Bush's actions, you dripping vaginal slit?

Go ahead, make my day.

go ahead and rattle off his violations you fucking pipsqueek.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Once again, Bush has absolutely NOTHING to do with this situation. What Bush has or hasn't done to this country is completely irrelevant.

No what Bush has done is relevant to every segment of society. He brought this on himself. He deserves whatever he gets. The teacher OWES it to those kids to open up their eyes. The teachers who don't tell their students what a fuck up Bush is are the ones who should be thrown under the bus. Rack this guy and shame on you for thinking otherwise.

Moving Sale wrote:

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Once again, Bush has absolutely NOTHING to do with this situation. What Bush has or hasn't done to this country is completely irrelevant.

No what Bush has done is relevant to every segment of society. He brought this on himself. He deserves whatever he gets. The teacher OWES it to those kids to open up their eyes. The teachers who don't tell their students what a fuck up Bush is are the ones who should be thrown under the bus. Rack this guy and shame on you for thinking otherwise.

No he should do what he gets paid to do - teach the fucking subject.

fucking shitforbrains.

Moving Sale wrote:The teacher OWES it to those kids to open up their eyes. The teachers who don't tell their students what a fuck up Bush is are the ones who should be thrown under the bus. Rack this guy and shame on you for thinking otherwise.

Explain how teaching kids to hate the president is more valuable than teaching them the necessary curriculum they will need to understand in order to do well in college? Isn't that the entire point of high school, to prepare kids for college, or other career-oriented endeavors?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:

Moving Sale wrote:The teacher OWES it to those kids to open up their eyes. The teachers who don't tell their students what a fuck up Bush is are the ones who should be thrown under the bus. Rack this guy and shame on you for thinking otherwise.

Explain how teaching kids to hate the president is more valuable than teaching them the necessary curriculum they will need to understand in order to do well in college? Isn't that the entire point of high school, to prepare kids for college, or other career-oriented endeavors?

By not teaching them the stuff they then will be unable to perform in the job market. This will make them sniveling whiners who need the government to lead them by the hand in every aspect of life. Hence future democratic voters.....

That won't matter though, because they'll be able to walk around and say "Bush is an asshole". That is far more important.

They won't know why they're saying it, but they'll know it's ok because their teacher told them so.

-TVO

Moving Sale wrote:

Mike the Lab Rat wrote:It's not even like the kids are going to be able to vote for another 5 years or so. Indoctrinating them now is pretty damned pointless.

No it isn't. They have mouths. Those mouths talk to voters.

Anyone....and I mean ANYONE who takes the political viewpoints of 13-year-olds seriously in any way, shape, or form should have their voting rights rescinded.

I teach high school kids in a K-12 building. 13-year-old kids and their near-age peers are the most vapid, self-absorbed, clueless piles of protoplasm on the planet. They don't know squat about the various socioeconomic/political forces in play right now, and even more to the point: they don't care. I can practically guarantee that no kids in that science teacher's class got "converted" that day. They're far more interested in text messaging each other, sneaking vending machine junk food into class, seeing how far they can push the dress code, impressing the cute girl/guy in class, etc.

Face it, Bush fucked up so bad that he deserves this treatment which, if it happened to almost any other POTUS, would be way out of bounds. Desperate times...

...do not, in any way justify a science teacher (who happens to be running for political office himself) using class time to ignore the curriculum he is contractually obligated to deliver. Your personal political views don't change that.

Personally, I can't stand Bush and feel that the man is perhaps the stupidest mammal to ever set foot in the Oval Office. Can't stand his spendthrift ways, his embarrassing lack of intellect, his willingness to play fast and loose with science, and his tendency to surround himself with corrpution. However, none of that comes through in the classes I teach. The kids have absolutely no idea what my political views are.....because THEY ARE NOT RELEVANT TO THE CURRICULUM.

13-year-old kids and their near-age peers are the most vapid, self-absorbed, clueless piles of protoplasm on the planet

Rack that. Have you told them how you feel?

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:

13-year-old kids and their near-age peers are the most vapid, self-absorbed, clueless piles of protoplasm on the planet

Rack that. Have you told them how you feel?

Yep. And for some strange reason, the kids seem to appreciate my candor.
When they do and say dumb shit, I call them on it.

Then again, since I'm not doing that meaningless, intellectually insulting (and utterly transparent) "self esteem" bullshit, they've also realized that when I give them a good grade or compliment, it's genuinely earned.

I've also let the kids know that yes, they're shallow, but that throughout the centuries, most kids their age have been shallow, and that (hopefully) they'll grow out of it.

A couple of the brighter kids in my district got a first-hand lesson on the shallowness of their peers when their underground newspaper tanked after four issues, due to lack of interest. "Fighting the power" lost out to "ohmigod, I have to pick out my prom dress/tux."

Okay you dripping gash. He spied on Americans and the 4th Am says he can't do that w/o a warrant. How fucking hard is that to understand you bloody slit of a human being?

"I authorize the interception of international communications of people with known links to al Qaeda and related terrorist organizations."
12-18-05

He told Bob Woodward that he statagey is to 'Listen to every phone call and close them down and protect the innocents.'

FISA says he can't and he did it anyway. Nothing in Article 2 says he has those powers.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Explain how teaching kids to hate the president is more valuable than teaching them the necessary curriculum they will need to understand in order to do well in college?

There will be little chance at college for many of these kids if we contuine on Bush's path. I get that you think everything is fine and there is no need to actually educate these kids on something that matters. You think I'm Chicken Little and I this you are an Ostrich with your head in the ground.

Difference is, I'm right and you're wrong. :D

Mike the Lab Rat wrote: The kids have absolutely no idea what my political views are.....because THEY ARE NOT RELEVANT TO THE CURRICULUM.

What Bush is doing is relevant to every segment of society. You don't buy that? Fine. Like I said, in almost any other circumstance I would agree with you, but this is a case when the ends justify the means. Should he be fired? Maybe. That doesn't mean that what he did was wrong. He took a stand, a stand that needs to be taken by more people.

Moving Sale wrote:There will be little chance at college for many of these kids if we contuine on Bush's path. I get that you think everything is fine and there is no need to actually educate these kids on something that matters. You think I'm Chicken Little and I this you are an Ostrich with your head in the ground.

Difference is, I'm right and you're wrong. :D

No, really, everyone should take your "end of the world as we know it" scenarios seriously.

Really.

It's not like it's never been done before.

Quick, over your shoulder.

Boo!

Sudden Sam wrote: Can we survive the man's term?

If we cut it short we might.

Moving Sale wrote:He took a stand, a stand that needs to be taken by more people.

That Bush is an asshole ?


Shit, everybody is an asshole.

Prick out front should've told ya.

Racist fuckstain says what?

TVO, exactly what did the teacher prove with his video? Explain what portion of it was "enlightening" and "educational"? This isn't smack, I'm really curious to know. As far as I can recall, he just hit Bush with names, insults and labels.

Moving Sale wrote:What Bush is doing is relevant to every segment of society.

In your opinion.

Moving Sale wrote:You don't buy that? Fine. Like I said, in almost any other circumstance I would agree with you, but this is a case when the ends justify the means.

That latter statement, in case you hadn't realized it, is why Macchiavelli is one of the historically reviled characters in history. The concept of "the ends justifies the means" short-circuits ethics, character, due process, etc. You want to teach kids THAT lesson? On top of the vulgarity and misuse of classroom time?

Moving Sale wrote:Should he be fired? Maybe.

No maybe about it.

The man was a science teacher who showed a video with repeated vulgarity, giving parents no prior warning. Strike one.

Said video had not one thing to do with the science curriculum that he was hired to present and assess. In fact, his use of the video directly stole instructional time from the district and the kids. Strike two.

The man was also, not coincidentally, running for a political seat and doing so as a member of the party opposed to Bush, thus using his class as a political podium for his parties' views. Strike three.

Moving Sale wrote:That doesn't mean that what he did was wrong.

He violated his contract. He imposed his political views on a captive, underage audience. He needlessly exposed the kids to vulgar material without warning the parents.

What he did was wrong.

The ONLY reason you feel differently is because you agree with his politcal views.

Moving Sale wrote:He took a stand, a stand that needs to be taken by more people.

Really? Would you still feel that "taking a stand" was so important if he was a Republican candidate who passionately believed in Bush and had had shown a pro-Bush/anti-MoveOn video? Of course not, for "taking a stand" only applies when the "stand" is one that agrees with your own.

The rules are the rules. Teachers, regardless of their political views and how strongly they have them, absolutely must keep them out of the classroom. Period.

Teach the damned curriculum that the state and district gave you without editorializing. Period.

^^^Thread over.