Does any other nation but ours...

[Sirfindafold]

PSU - You are starting to see a slight crackdown on the employers in our industry

not nearly fucking good enough.

I agree.


The people of IFCO probably don't:


Companies using illegal workers to be targeted
Immigration arrests 9 IFCO bosses along with 1,000 workers

Friday, April 21, 2006; Posted: 2:18 a.m. EDT (06:18 GMT)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Bush administration unveiled Thursday what it said is a new strategy aimed at companies employing illegal immigrants, illustrating it with a crackdown on the German-based firm IFCO Systems.

Law enforcement officials will "use all the tools we have, whether it be criminal enforcement or immigration laws to break the back" of businesses that exploit undocumented immigrants, said Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff at a news conference.

"We're looking at them in the same way we look at criminal organizations," he said. (Watch response to the raids -- 1:40)

Federal immigration authorities arrested nine people linked to IFCO Systems and rounded up more than 1,000 illegal immigrants in multistate raids, federal law enforcement officials said.

Among those arrested and charged in connection with the employment of immigrants are seven current and former managers and two lower-level employees of the company, said U.S. Attorney Glenn Suddaby.

IFCO is an industry leader in the manufacture of wooden pallets, crates and containers. The criminal complaint involving IFCO charges the seven managers with conspiracy to transport, harbor, and employ illegal immigrants for private gain. (Watch the young woman whose boyfriend got hauled in -- 1:06)

Federal authorities checked a sample of 5,800 IFCO employee records last year and found that 53 percent had faulty Social Security numbers, an Immigration and Customs Enforcement official said.(Watch how workers allegedly got help faking records -- 1:25)

"That is, they were using Social Security numbers of people that were dead, of children or just different individuals that did not work at IFCO," ICE chief Julie Myers told CNN.

"The Social Security Administration had written IFCO over 13 times and told them, 'Listen, You have a problem. You have over a thousand employees that have faulty Social Security numbers. And we consider that to be a big problem,'" said Myers. "And IFCO did not do anything about it."

A yearlong investigation revealed that IFCO managers had induced illegal aliens to work there, telling some to doctor W-2 tax forms and others that no documentation was needed at all, Myers said.

As public concern over illegal immigration has grown in recent months, federal law enforcement officials have sought to tighten enforcement of immigration laws, through criminal charges against those who employ illegal aliens. Those charges would include money laundering, alien harboring, illegal alien employment and wire fraud.

"We are turning away from focusing only on civil liability," Myers told CNN. "It used to be in these cases that they amounted mainly to a slap on the wrist or a small civil fine. We're now focusing on criminal cases and bringing as many criminal charges as we can when we find employers that blatantly violate worksite enforcement laws."

Asked if senior managers knew or should have known about the alleged violations, Myers said, "There's no allegation of that at this time. It's certainly an ongoing investigation. I will tell you, though, that we are troubled by some of the things that we've seen at IFCO."

She said the company is cooperating with the investigation.

At his press conference, Chertoff said that under the Secure Borders Initiative, law enforcement officials would detect and catch those who cross the border illegally; detain and return them to their home countries; and target those already in the United States. Of particular importance are illegal immigrant smuggling operations, which have become a multibillion dollar business.

In its 2007 budget request, the Department of Homeland Security is asking Congress for more money to expand its documentation verification system. The abuse of the Social Security system and its documents are a key challenge, Chertoff said.

Industries relating to critical infrastructure -- like transportation, nuclear power plants and national defense -- are among those being targeted, Chertoff said.

IFCO Systems, with more than 40 offices across the U.S., issued a statement late Wednesday acknowledging the federal action.

"IFCO Systems is proud to be an equal opportunity employer and is committed to creating a workplace free of discrimination," the company said. "It is our policy to comply with all federal and state employee requirements."

But the IFCO statement did not directly address the charges.

"Immigration and Customs Enforcement officials today conducted employee background checks at a number of IFCO facilities across the country. We are cooperating fully with representatives from ICE and hope to have this matter resolved as soon as possible," the statement said.

ICE officials said agents made more than a thousand arrests in nearly 40 locations including Houston; Cincinnati; Phoenix; and Albany, New York

[PSUFAN]

Much better.

[Neely8]

Much better.

As stated I think this thread was aimed at the "immigrants" because of their little rally yesterday. Totally agreed though that employers should be a huge target......

[jtr]

I think thread is awesome, good stuff Van!

[Uncle Fester]

In a nutshell...

"The conservatives love their cheap labor; the liberals love their cheap cause."

-Ed Abbey

[jtr]

Id comment here but id just get whacked as usual so ill refrain my comments.

[Neely8]

Received this in my e-mail. Found it interesting how the Americans working in Mexico have it. I wonder why we just can't walk across the border and work......


Please feel free to share this with everyone who thinks we are being hard on illegal immigrants.
Subject: American working in Mexico

From the other side of the fence.....
Received the following from () who was a Director with SW BELL in Mexico City.

You remember I spent five years working in Mexico.
I worked under a tourist Visa for three months and could legally renew it for three more months. After that you were working Illegally. I was technically illegal for three weeks waiting on the FM3 approval

During that six months our Mexican and US Attorneys were working to secure a permanent work visa called a FM3. It was in addition to my US passport that I had to show each time I entered and left the country. Barbara's was the same except hers did not permit her to work.

To apply for the FM3 I needed to submit the following notarized originals
(not copies) of my:+
1. Birth certificate for Barbara and I.
2. Marriage certificate.
3. High school transcripts and proof of graduation.
4. College transcripts for every college I attended and proof of graduation.
5. Two letters of recommendation from supervisors I had worked for at least one year.
6. A letter from The ST. Louis Chief of Police indication I had no arrest record in the US and no outstanding warrants and was "a citizen in good standing."
7. Finally; I had to write a letter about myself that clearly stated why there was no Mexican Citizen with my skills and why my skills were important to Mexico. We called it our "I am the greatest person on Earth" letter. It was fun to write.

All of the above were in English that had to be translated into Spanish and be certified as legal translations and our signatures notarized. It produced a folder about 1.5 inches thick with English on the left side and Spanish on the right.

Once they were completed Barbara and I spent about five hours accompanied by a Mexican Attorney touring Mexican Government office locations and being photographed and fingerprinted at least three times. At each location and we remember at least four locations we instructed on Mexican tax, labor, housing, and criminal law and that we were required to obey their laws or face the consequences. We could not protest any of the Governments actions or we would be committing a felony. We paid out four thousand dollars in fees and bribes to complete the process. When this was done we could legally bring in our household goods that were held by US customs in Loredo Texas. This meant we has rented furniture in Mexico while awaiting our goods. There were extensive fees involved here that the company paid.

We could not buy a home and were required to rent at very high rates and under contract and compliance with Mexican law.

We were required to get a Mexican drivers license. This was an amazing process. The company arranged for the Licensing agency to come to our Headquarters location with their photography and finger print equipment and the laminating machine. We showed our US license, were photographed and fingerprinted again and issued the license instantly after paying out a six dollar fee. We did not take a written or driving test and never received instructions on the rules of the road. Our only instruction was never give a policeman your license if stopped and asked. We were instructed to hold it against the inside window away from his grasp. If he got his hands on it you would have to pay ransom to get it back.

We then had to pay and file Mexican income tax annually using the number of our FM3 as our ID number. The companies Mexican accountants did this for us and we just signed what they prepared. I was about twenty legal size pages annually.

The FM 3 was good for three years and renewable for two more after paying more fees.

Leaving the country meant turning in the FM# and certifying we were leaving no debts behind and no outstanding legal affairs (warrants, tickets or liens) before our household goods were released to customs.

It was a real adventure and If any of our Senators or Congressman went through it once they would have a different attitude toward Mexico.

The Mexican Government uses its vast military and police forces to keep its citizens intimidated and compliant. They never protest at their White house or government offices but do protest daily in front of the United States Embassy. The US embassy looks like a strongly reinforced fortress and during most protests the Mexican Military surround the block with their men standing shoulder to shoulder in full riot gear to protect the Embassy. These protests are never shown on US or Mexican TV. There is a large public park across the street where they do their protesting. Anything can cause a protest such as proposed law changes in California or Texas.

[Moving Sale]

...TVO is pretty much a good chunk of the reason this doesn't get approached with more seriousness.

Lawyers, politics and greed.

I merely pointed out to Van that just because something is illegal doesn't make it bad. When discussing the merits of a malum prohibitum crime the mere fact that it is illegal should not be the lead in argument. Sorry if you are too stupid to see that.

[jtr]

wonder how many illegal immigrants died nn 9/11

[Moving Sale]

30% of our prison population is made up of illegal immigrants.

You're talking Federal prisons right?

[Moving Sale]

Oh yes, and unchecked immigration ... is indeed a "bad" thing.

That may or may not be true. What is true is that something being illegal is not proof that it is bad. A smart person realizes this fact and doesn't use it's illegal status as his/her lead in to a thread.

Van isn't very smart, I pointed that out to him. You got a problem with that you racist fuck?

[Van]

TVO, yes, the fact that they're both illegal and a financial drain is..."bad".

Christ.

There's no spinning this, not even by you.

Do the employers who perpetuate this also need reining in? Of course they do. Supply and demand, obviously, but the notion of having literally millions of illegals demanding equality under the law is just incredibly ridiculous...

...even by your usual incredibly ridiculous standards.

[Uncle Fester]

In addition to Neely's post, check out how poorly Mexico treats immigrants who enter illegally from Central or South America.

You won't see any of them waving Costa Rican flags in the streets.

Fricken hypocrites.

[Spinach Genie]

What is true is that something being illegal is not proof that it is bad.

It generally tends to be profitable for a lawyer, however.

As usual, you say nothing much with a lot of arrogance. They taught you well.

[Moving Sale]

TVO, yes, the fact that they're both illegal and a financial drain is..."bad".

No. Like I said just because it's illegal doesn't make it bad. As far as the $, if that was your primary argument why didn't you put that in bold? That they are a drain is an argument to make them legal eh? So all in all you have a shit argument and one that cuts both ways. Nice going for a tard.

SG,
Completely deflating Vans primary argument is 'nothing much?

[jtr]

actually australia is dealing with immigration problems these days too expcept they call them asylum seekers
[quote][/quote] A common misconception is that refugees arriving in Australia will 'steal' the entitlements of Australians. The reality is that refugees, like migrants, create demand for goods and services, thus stimulating the economy and generating growth and employment. A recent UCLA study has shown that unauthorised immigration boosts the US economy by $800 billion per year.

[War Wagon]

We aren't obligated to take in every last one of the world's strays, much less the ones who don't have the wherewithal to go through the proper channels.

True, but what exactly do you propose to do with tweve million or so illegals who are already here? Besides bitch and moan about it, that is?

You don't just "show up" and be allowed entry.

Nope, you don't.

It'd be nice if first you squared things away with your own country's authorities. Maybe let 'em know you're leaving, ya' know? See, that way, if you act the fool in our country we can send you back and they have some clue as to who you are.

Like your Mom's family did when they escaped Nazi Germany?

Are you saying that most immigrants from the past 150 years or so cleared it with their home government first, went thru all the "proper channels", and that all their papers were in order when they arrived?

Or did they "just show up" like you previously said?

I'll take the latter scenario. You seem to take the former, which is very naive at best, dishonest at worst.

Here, let me copy a post of mine from Roofer's thread, since your narcissist self probably doesn't read any thread other than the one's that you start.

Actually, what the protests and demonstrations are about, is the HoR bill passed on December 16th that, should it be signed into law, would instantly make all persons here illegally guilty of a felony crime, rather than a civil crime.

Illegals currently have at least some legal rights, such as being able to peaceably assemble and redress the government for a grievance....that of being declared felon's and not even having that basic right anymore.

Before the protests, most people didn't even know the HoR had passed a bill with such draconian measures. It pretty much flew under the radar for two months. Since, there's been quite an outcry against this bill. I've seen polls where 70% of Americans don't think it should be a felony to be here illegally. The House is now doing some serious backpedaling on this fucked up piece of legislation.

Now, I don't necessarily agree that boycotts and walkouts are the best way to get their message across, but get it across they are doing. If thousands of people marching in the streets of most every major city doesn't get some attention, I don't know what will.

And BTW, I doubt that more than 25% of those participating in the demonstrations are here illegally. The pathological knee jerkers like mvscal may think they deserve to be rolled over by tanks, machine gunned,and then bulldozed into the San Andreas fault, but fortunately for everyone, his ilk doesn't make any decisions weightier than deciding whether to call someone he disagrees with a Dumbfuck, a Dipshit, or both. Illegal immigrants are an easy target for hysterical simpletons.

Also, I understand that illegal immigrants create a huge burden on society, especially in places like California, and that something must be done to address this problem. Hell, something needed to be done 20 years ago, but now the pot is boiling over with emotion from both sides.

I still contend and have been saying for some time that the proposed Senate Bill that got waylaid by partisan bickering was a good start towards addressing the problem. If the protests accomplish anything, I hope that it causes the Senate to salvage this bill in some form or another.

Idealistic Midwest Sheltered College Boy Who Hasn't Seen Any Real Life Yet Much?

That would be funny if it weren't so ridiculous. You obviously haven't been paying a bit of attention to the heated debate around these parts regarding this issue the past few month's, else you'd know how ignorant that remark is.

Van, I work in a welding shop supervising many employee's. 75% are hispanics, some legal, some probably not. I may see some things from a different perspective than you, but I'm certainly not ignorant on the subject, and anything but "sheltered".

[tough love]

jtr wrote:
actually australia is dealing with immigration problems these days too expcept they call them asylum seekers

In Canada we call them draft dodgers.

[Van]

TVO, yes, the fact that they're both illegal and a financial drain is..."bad".

No. Like I said just because it's illegal doesn't make it bad.

Until you prove otherwise, yes, by definition it's "bad".

Sneaking into our country illegally...bad.

Endangering themselves and those who help them sneak in...bad.

Emergency services used on treating those who got sick or injured themselves in the attempt...bad.

Lowering the working wages by devaluing the service...bad.

Working under the table and not paying proper taxes...bad.

Having no medical insurance and clogging up our ERs and other emergency services while driving up the cost of both...bad.

Causing county medical facilities to close shop entirely due to all the free services they're forced to tender to illegals....bad.

Swelling our numbers with literally countless households stuffed full with undocumented people and thereby further taxing our already strained to the limit utilities...bad.

Killing our auto insurance rates because of all the uninsured motorist claims...bad.

Urban blight...bad.

Taking your money and sending it out of the country...bad.

Fucking PROTESTING over OUR lawmakers deciding to try to enforce the laws that clearly define your illegal status...bad.

Coming here and dragging our society down to where it's little better than the one you didn't stick around to fix...horribly bad.

Douchebag contrarian lawyer squeaking and leaking...predictably bad.

All the $$ allocated towards border patrols....bad.. As far as the $, if that was your primary argument why didn't you put that in bold?

I listed it among many other items. If you re-read the original post you'll notice that what this thread is about is the fact that our country is the only country around that puts up with this crap the way we do. I then went on to list all the ridiculous things we tolerate and I delineated some of the damage inflicted on our society by allowing this never ending influx of illegals in our midst.

You responded with bland onanism.

That they are a drain is an argument to make them legal eh?

If they were legal they'd be registered tax payers and they'd be pulling their weight a whole lot more. So, yes. Join our society in an above board manner, assimilate and contribute at the same level as the rest of us.

Don't gravy train us and then protest when we decide to call you on your bullshit. Don't drop your pitiable existence in our lap and simply expect us to take you in and make you fully fledged equals just because your home country is a toilet.

YOU are not OUR problem...until you make yourself our problem. IF we decide to allow you to become our problem then keep your mouth shut, don't be an ingrate and quit embarrassing all of us.

Keep in mind that we could easily just shoot you on sight at our border, the way it would happen in many other countries should you attempt to steal you way onto their home soil.

IF we allow you to stay, STFU, become LEGAL a.s.a.p and...STFU.

If we decide you've overstayed your welcome then count your blessings for the respite we gave your illegal indigent ass and get the fuck out when we tell you to get the fuck out.

Legal...vs illegal. It's pretty damn clear, all over the globe. No reason it shouldn't be clear here as well.

So all in all you have a shit argument and one that cuts both ways. Nice going for a tard.

All in all I've once again ruined your empty Lawyer Rhetoric Lite.

SG,
Completely deflating Vans primary argument is 'nothing much?

You'd need to actually do something like that once in your life before any editorials on it would become necessary.

TVO, the only person who's offered anything of substance in rebuttal in this thread is PSU. His continual point about hurting the demand by going after the criminals who hire the illegals in the first place has all the merit in the world. Nobody can argue that. It becomes a thorny issue of implementation/enforcement, without a doubt, but that's the flipside of this debate that must be adequately addressed.

You? Per usual, you've done absolutely dick.

[Van]

WW, the fact that these current protests were prompted by proposed legislation that would make it a felony to be illegal is still much ado about nothing in practically every country on the planet. It still comes down to the same thing: WE have a country here, a country whereby the legal taxpayers of this country are the lasting stewards of this society.

As such, WE determine what is and isn't illegal, and to what extent something is or isn't illegal.

WE do. Illegal immigrants do not. They have no say so, other than the say so we benevolently grant them. If we decide to take care of our own by declaring illegals to be felons then so be it. That would be the law of our land as dictated by our longstanding democratic process. As such we are ALL expected to abide by the laws of this society.

All of us; not just those of us who pay for this society everyday.

Don't like it? Leave. Good riddance. You won't be missed and you haven't a leg to stand on. For far too long we've lived in a gray area designed to keep Mexico from having to own up to their responsibility for this debacle.

That time is nearing its conclusion.

[War Wagon]

You haven't offered much of substance yourself, Van.

Just more jingoistic rhetoric, and absolutely zero in the way of solutions.

Going after the evil, wicked, slave driving employers, eh? The ones who have them in chains and literally force them to come and work for a paycheck?

The government looks the other way, for the most part, because it's absolutely unenforceable....being as how there ARE 12 MILLION HERE!

Why don't you get a fucking clue of what you're talking about before coming back in here and dazzling everyone with ignorant verbosity.

[jtr]

sorry if i fucked up your thread, van.

[RadioFan]

Van, not to speak for MS, but ...

Try substituting marijuana with illegal immigration in your argument on "laws" in this country. Used to be legal? Check. No longer legal for purely political reasons? Check.

'sayin.


Btw, how come you're not listening to game 5? WTF? :wink:

P.S. RACK Wags.

[jtr]

You haven't offered much of substance yourself, Van.

Just more jingoistic rhetoric, and absolutely zero in the way of solutions.

Going after the evil, wicked, slave driving employers, eh? The ones who have them in chains and literally force them to come and work for a paycheck?

The government looks the other way, for the most part, because it's absolutely unenforceable....being as how there ARE 12 MILLION HERE!

Why don't you get a fucking clue of what you're talking about before coming back in here and dazzling everyone with ignorant verbosity.

you want a solution go to Radio Shack. Van is 100% right on all that he says the point of a rant on here is to blast your opinion on whatever to the fullest of your extent, its not about solutions and really there is no logical, ethical answer. We're too deep in this shit to do anything about it that won't be controversial.

[War Wagon]

If we decide to take care of our own by declaring illegals to be felons then so be it.

Then so be it, huh? Simple as that?

How in fuck are we gonna' enforce that statute?

That's right, we can't.

The rest of your arguement is just hysterical fantasy about a world that you wish you could live in.

Why don't you get real, quit demonizing folks who are NO different than your immigrant family was, and try to come up with some constructive ideas for a change?

[Spinach Genie]

How in fuck are we gonna' enforce that statute?

That's right, we can't.

Arrest them? Deport them? I guess we can't stop urban gangbangers from shooting each other every day either, so we should just throw our hands up and legalize it?

[jtr]

maybe ship em all off to greenland, lots of wide open territory there they could form their own nation.

[socal]

[x]jtr

[Display/Hide Post]

[War Wagon]

Arrest them? Deport them?

Hmmm, I see your point.

Van, mvscal, and yourself are going to deputize each other and arrest and/or deport these 12 million illegals single handedly.

If the 3 of you aren't enough, I'm sure Jess can spare some time from his busy schedule to help tie up the loose ends.

Yaaaaah!

Youse guys will be heroes!

I guess we can't stop urban gangbangers from shooting each other every day either, so we should just throw our hands up and legalize it?

This isn't about urban gangbangers shooting each other.

[Atomic Punk]

[x]jtr

[Display/Hide Post]

In front of the shit trolls, he is easily the worst poster here.

[jtr]

ap king of the relentless stupidity

[Atomic Punk]

So you admit you are the worst poster sans the shit trolls?

Don't answer. No need.

[jtr]

Ohhh Snap!

Do you actually take posting here seriously, AP?

You do, don't you.

Bwahahahaha
I'm sorry I thought you were one of the ones above that.

When you find your way out of the mop closet things get so much clearer, buddy. Look into it.

[Atomic Punk]

Bwhahahaha?

You do take being a tard seriously though.

No idea why you post on any board.

[jtr]

Because I can, because I have opinions, because I have theroies, because I have spirit, because my religion is not a race(sup rts, congrats ppanther), because I think, because luther and van and dinsdale and mvscal and y2k and socal and shoalize and even friggin zyclone "get it" and because expressing yourself no matter how is a good form of communication to become a better speaker. I do this because its my right to and I think random thoughts and post rants, meltdowns, hotties, sports scores, play word games, act, live.

[socal]

jtr, will you sign my yearbook?

Stay cool and have a bitchin' summer!

socal

[RadioFan]

jtr ... simmah dann na.

You nailed it earlier.

Sorry if i fucked up your thread, van.

You were on a high note.

You've made your peace. Rack it.


AP ... bro ... topic, please.


RACK socal, per usual.

[Atomic Punk]

socal!!!!

Will YOU sign my yearbook too????

Can you dot my eyes and dot my t's?

Love,

jess

[Van]

WW, ever heard of the word "deterrent"??

Familiar with that concept??

Christ...

This isn't brain surgery here. This isn't a difficult concept. Time consuming? Yes. Difficult to formulate and execute? Nope.

You wanna know how to get this shit done? Fine.

"Perception is reality". Keep that phrase in mind...

Step 1: Create congressional legislation clearly defining the illegal immigration guidelines and penalties. Vote it into law. Splash it all over every front page of every newspaper all around the world.

Particularly here, and in Mexico.

Step 2: Inform Vicente Fox that from now on HIS people are HIS problem and therefore we ARE going to enforce the integrity of our borders....by any means we see fit. This could include a large Israeli style wall. It could include shoot-to-kill orders.

Hey, these people are attempting to steal into our country under the cloak of darkness....post 9/11. There's no reason whatsoever Al Queda couldn't include themselves in the back of the next overloaded van full of illegals making their way into our country.

We really don't need to justify how we defend our own borders from foreign incursions. Anybody have a problem with that?

Too bad.

By...any..means...we..see...fit.

"Deterrent." Let's see how insouciant those cockroaches are when the penalties for getting caught trespassing suddenly grow, shall we say, a bit more severe.

By...any...means..we...see...fit.

"Perception is reality." Let's see the effect amongst the roaches of some good little ol' word of mouth.

Step 3: Instant deportation back to Mexico of illegals in our prisons. Straight up. Round 'em up, chain 'em inside some prison busses and drop 'em off on the ugly side of San Ysidro and Brownsville, guns trained on them all the while should they acquire any notions of hoofing it on back over the border.

Have fun.

Step 4: Random greencard sweeps followed by immediate deportations for those found guilty of being here illegally.

Ruin some businesses. Set highly visible precedents. Keep it going. Pound into the brains of the illegals that yes indeedy, there is a New Reality.

As they're being dropped off on the fugly side of the border gently remind them again of Step 2...

Display Step 2 to them as often as possible. We've got an omelette we're making here so break those fucking eggs. Work that word of mouth to the hilt.

Make sure the word continues to spread back home that times have changed and we're no longer looking the other way. Prove to them that the Risk/Reward quotient for coming in illegally is no longer the no brainer it used to be.

Step 5: Hit non compliant business owners up the bejeezus with crippling fines, revocations of business licenses and even prison time. Show them in none too uncertain terms that they will no longer be allowed to skirt the law. Hold unethical businesses accountable. Hold their feet to the fire until the risk of losing everything becomes so real and so pervasive that the Risk/Reward quotient dictates their future actions too.

Hit likely businesses...again...and again...and again. Buy some network "Reality TV" time. Sit back and enjoy the overwhelming hit of the new season, this new version of "Cops".

Prove it to 'em.

Again, perception is reality. Business owners are nothing if not pragmatists. Billy Joe Bob Neckfuck isn't about to risk his little daughter's future over the continued hiring of illegals, not once he sees continual graphic evidence that he WILL lose everything.

Over not too long of a period of time the free market will correct itself, as it always does. Business will Bitch, then Accept, then Adjust, and finally they'll Innovate and Prevail. Nothing new there. The bad seeds will fall by the wayside, and good riddance to them. The strong and the smart will survive.

This is one free market that needs correcting, sooner rather than later.

The object here is to first stem the bleeding. Of course we won't eliminate every illegal in the country. That's neither realistic nor necessary.

What is realistic and completely necessary is the creation of a new mindset in our society that we will in fact conduct ourselves as a nation of law abiding citizens. We will require accountability. Along the way we will reduce the number of burdensome illegals, at least to the point where their presence becomes a more tenable situation.

More importantly, we must reverse the current tide. The numbers of illegals in this country cannot continue to swell, unchecked, unabated.

Stop the bleeding. Staunch the wound. Provide treatment, then practice preventative measures in the future.

First though, we must make the decision to stop the bleeding and that decision specifically involves having the courage to stand up and enact common sense legislation that unequivocally states what must be:

-The United States Of America will no longer accept illegal immigration into this country.

-The United States Of America will aggressively defend the sanctity of her borders.

-The United States Of America has clearly declared laws regarding the terms of legal immigration and the penalties for being here illegally.

-The United States Of America will aggressively enforce her immigration laws.

-The United States Of America will not trade in self destructive business practices. She will protect her own at home, and this begins with enforcing all laws regarding non compliant businesses.

Ten years of doing the hard work, that's all it'd take. Ten years, and we'll have eliminated the current perceptions. Ten years; hardly more than a grain of sand in the hourglass. That's it.

Or, we can keep rambling down this same reckless highway, heads buried in the sand, doing nothing. Please, by all means, let us all look into our nation's none too distant future and then let's be honest about what we truly see...

[PSUFAN]

more jingo invective sopped up from talk radio and wrung out here

Very impressive. I can't wait to read your contributions in the "piss on illegal employers" thread.

Racks to Whitey.