No, this won't get the thumpers worked up at all.

[Uncle Fester]

that sounds awesome today

meet you out at the lake

I got the beer
(for you it will be Hamms)

Haven't footed for many years since my back is kinda fukked. I couldn't even get up on my slalom ski last summer. However, I'm working on it. I plan on being a lean, mean, Raidah James machine by mid-summer.

With a few Hamm's in me I'd definitely try it and what the hey, once you learn a step-off you never miss, right?

[rozy]

Dave,

I overreacted and showed more indignation that I normally do. My bad. It surprised me that you would paint with such a broad brush. Personally, I am taking Josh McDowell's approach by looking at the movie as an opportunity. It has people talking. That should be looked at as a good thing. And Sam had his post right and is similar to what I wrote in the other DVC thread. It's a novel.

Again, I should have been more 'tartlike in approaching this thread.

-r

[Truman]

It's a fucking fairy tale, dumbshit. People don't walk on water. They don't change it into wine. They don't magically create bread out of thin air and they damn sure don't rise from the dead...

Wow. I never imagined that some Loser on the Internet could be so much smarter than a whole host of Christian theolgians.

Oh, and, uh, great point, mvscist.

People do not perform such miracles.

But Jesus did.

Guess you musta missed that part. You know, God's Son and all....

An empathetic Christian might pray for your immortal soul, but since you're bent on validating that yours doesn't exist... Well, then, you just go ahead and have a swell eternity! :wink:

[TenTallBen]

One side is right, one is wrong. We'll all find out when we die. Why argue about it? Who wants a beer?

[rozy]

Will they have Mogen David in Heaven?
Dear Lord, we'd all like to know
Will they have Mogen David in Heaven?
Sweet Jesus,
If they don't, who the hell wants to go?

[TenTallBen]

Will they have Mogen David in Heaven?
Dear Lord, we'd all like to know
Will they have Mogen David in Heaven?
Sweet Jesus,
If they don't, who the hell wants to go?

Put down the crack pipe there, rozy.

I am a non-practicing Methodist who went to 12 years of Catholic school. Go figure. I went to school mass on Fridays and Church on Sundays. I got my fill of the "good book" and choose not to participate in any of that bullshit anymore. With the exception of a few faults, I consider myself a good person. Being taught the things I did helped to make me what I am, and for that I will never have a problem with what the Bible teaches. But that's where I draw the line. The brainwashing bullshit that goes on in many of the different beliefs makes me want to puke. Weak-minded people continue to allow this to proliferate. I pity those....

Live a good life and fuck what anybody else thinks.

[poptart]

The Book is really all about the Message.

What do you think the 'message' of the Bible is .... ?

[Husker4ever]

Truth is if you flipped the script and the majority of muslims were in America and the majority of christians were in the Middle East. We would be going through the same bullshit we are now.

Muslims in both civilized countries and third world rioted and flipped out over those cartoons. Christianity has had its ugly spots, centuries ago...but the two aren't comparable in any way today, regardless of locale.

^^^gets it. Ya can't put a silk hat on a pig. Muslim=lunatic.

[M2]

[Mike the Lab Rat]

However, I understand that the Catholic Church is threatening to excommunicate anyone who sees it.

If true, their threat is beyond powerless. The fact is that there are plenty of folks calling themselves "Roman Catholic" who belong to Masonic lodges and who have received Communion repeatedly in another denomination's church and, despite the threat that those acts result in excommunication, still find themselves sitting in the pews week after week without any problems. The current pope threatened to excommunicate Roman Catholics who worked for Planned Parenthood (and Freemasons) back when he was just a cardinal, and nothing happened, other than some minor news articles.

It's not like the Vatican has a "Naughty or Nice" list and sends an official "Notice of Excommunication" to those who offend their rules. The way my brother, who is a Carmelite Brother (and teaches catechism), explained it to me is that people "excommunicate themselves" and you don't get any official "kicked out" letters. The Church of Rome doesn't have any way to really track folks, has no official process and notification, etc. When I started attending Episcopal Mass, received Communion there for months, and then "converted" (by officially being Received into the denomination, certificate and all), I heard nothing from the Vatican or any of its minions. I could show up in a RC church in any town and take Communion without repercussions. Friends of mine who are Roman Catholic Freemasons haven't heard a peep either from any RCC officials.

The Church of Rome can barely keep a supply of priests in the Western world, is shutting down and consolidating parishes, and has no real power over what the laity sees and does. Hell, this movie has been the greatest thing they've had in a long time to get the apathetic flocks motivated. Both Brown and the Vatican are loving and profiting from the controversy.

[Jay in Phoenix]

poptart asked:

"What do you think the 'message' of the Bible is .... ?"

Good question poptart, I'm just wondering what your answer is.

[PSUFAN]

This morning I head some idiot on the news ask a Catholic priest if people are asking him whether they should see the movie or not.

WTF?!?!

Grown people are asking if they should see a movie or not?!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Come on, people. How pitiful is that? Have you no brains?

OMIGOD.

Basically, that sums it up for me as well. Yes, there are good people doing good things that call themselves Catholic...but fuck, WHY? Why be involved with such a reprehensible organization? What more do you need to see?

[BSmack]

I could show up in a RC church in any town and take Communion without repercussions.

When I was a teenager and trying to fit in with my nearly 100% Catholic East Rochester HS football team, I would take Communion all the time when the football team would go to Friday Mass. Nobody ever said a word to me about it ever.

Personaly I never understood the big deal about having to be in the "right" denomination to take Communion at a certain Church. I am absolutely certain that Jesus didn't include any demonimational language in the Last Supper.

[TenTallBen]

One side is right, one is wrong. We'll all find out when we die. Why argue about it? Who wants a beer?

Maybe both sides are wrong.

You like to argue for the sake of arguing, don't you? If both sides are wrong then that is even more of a reason to stop whining about it.

[poptart]

poptart asked:

"What do you think the 'message' of the Bible is .... ?"

Good question poptart, I'm just wondering what your answer is.

Give the first 3 books of Genesis a legitimate read.
In those 3 books, the basic meaning of the Bible is told.

Man was created by God, in God's image, to be happy.
He sins and is separated from God. (Gen 3:6)
He comes under influence from satan.
He is nervous, unhappy, and attempts to hide from God.
God promised man that he will provide a way out from the sin, satan and death trap that he has gotten into (Genesis 3:15).
The Christ is that way.

After understanding this fundamental problem, as told in the first 3 books, the rest of the Bible can be understood in that context.

Christ is seen in EVERY page of the Book, if you don't lose sight of the fundamental problem of man, as told in the first 3 books of Genesis.

That's what it's about.

[Tom In VA]

One side is right, one is wrong. We'll all find out when we die.

No, you won't find out anything when you die. You're just a walking, talking hunk of meat. When you die, you're done.

But by all means, comfort yourself with whichever fairy tale best enables you to cope with your own mortality.

Based on what experience ? You been dead before ? Another fucking sophist spreading the results of his mental masturbation as fact

Again, who the fuck are you ?

[Tom In VA]

Based on what experience ? You been dead before ? Another fucking sophist spreading the results of his mental masturbation as fact

Again, who the fuck are you ?

Keep melting, you pitiful "Christian" faggot.

I've seen people killed in the most hideously extravagent manner imaginable. Sorry, douche. There's nothing there. Just blood, bones, guts and meat. There is no soul. There is no mystery to life. We're just animals. We die, we rot and that's all there is to it. No cloud city in the sky. No lake of fire. Dead is fucking dead.

That is life on Earth. It's the only one you'll ever know and deep down you know it's true.

Seems to me you're the one who is melting. You're unable to comprehend that some folks won't take your opinions as gospel truth. So you resort to your SOP when you don't have a take or an informed opinion.

"MVSCAL", "FAGGOT", "DUMBFUCK".


The fact that you alledge that you've watched some horror, be it in movies or in real life .... does not make you an expert on death and dying. When was the last time you lay, dying ?

You claim knowledge, you haven't got. That makes you a melting, cowardly, sophist.

[Jay in Phoenix]

poptart wrote:

Give the first 3 books of Genesis a legitimate read.
In those 3 books, the basic meaning of the Bible is told.

Christ is seen in EVERY page of the Book, if you don't lose sight of the fundamental problem of man, as told in the first 3 books of Genesis.

Indeed 'tart, Christ is in every page of the book, in both a figurative and literal sense. And you of course answered your own question quite adequately. I knew you would. You'd done so before, with the same exact quotation. Man is born into sin, and must suffer before and until he embraces Christ as the Way. Therein is your underlying theme.

Now then, does this mean that every single word, of every single story int he Bible actually happened, verbatum? Of course not. And that is where some of the problems stemming from literal Biblical interpretation lie.

There are so many who get wrapped up so deeply into imagery and symbolism--(the Holy Blood Holy Grail/DaVinci Code folk)--(or the fanatical fundamentalists)--and embrace every element of every story as verbatum fact, that the inherent Message itself becomes either unfocused or lost altogether.

Understanding is the key. Not being encumbered by innumerous re-interpretations of the Bible that have been woven by the various churches over the years, to fufill their own political agendas, is the first step toward clarity.

[Tom In VA]

Yes, I understand how weak minded individuals such as yourself would want to shroud yourselves in a cocoon of comforting lies about an "afterlife" in an attempt to stave off the inevitiable knowledge of your impending doom.

You want knowledge? Here's some. There isn't one motherfucking iota of proof or evidence of any of the idiotic bullshit you profess to believe in.

Your religion is a fucking joke and it's on you. Dumbshit.

Oh give it a rest. My whole point is that "I don't know, one way or another".

You're too much of a chickenshit to even admit that you don't know.

Instead you posture yourself, meltdown, and cower at the thought of the possibility you might be wrong.

It all boils down to one thing. Belief. You believe you are correct. You don't know.

I believe, you and I might be wrong. I know what I don't know. And I don't know whether or not there is life after death, because I've never been dead.

[PSUFAN]

You like to argue for the sake of arguing, don't you?

Welcome to the discussion board.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Growing up Catholic, and attending Catholic school for so many years, I was always taught that the Bible need not, and indeed should not, be read literally.

umm, Terry? I don't know which Catholic church or school you went to be indoctrinated in catechism, but the one I went to shoved that literal interpretation of the Bible shit pretty much right down your throat, and you best best like it, mr.

Literal reading of the Bible? Huh? Creationism, anyone? Methuselah? Noah's Ark and the great flood? Goliath being 8 feet tall? I could go on, but you get the idea: the Catholic Church has not advocated literal reading of any of those stories, at least not for quite some time.

Oh, and btw, the fact that the Catholic Church did not read the Bible literally was one of the factors behind the Protestant Reformation. Not the only one, by a long shot, but certainly one of them.

I understand that the Catholic Church is threatening to excommunicate anyone who sees it.

Link? I find that hard to believe. As anal as the RCC is, I don't think they want go there.

You'll note that I prefaced that with "I understand." In no way am I saying with 100% certainty that the Church is threatening excommunication. And even if they are, I think when push comes to shove, they'll back off, if for no other reason than they're hardly about to station people at every movie theater in the world and report the names of every person who sees the movie.

[Terry in Crapchester]

You're too much of a chickenshit to even admit that you don't know.

Based on what I've seen of mvscal on this board, and not just limited to this topic, I'll go out on a limb and say that the phrase "I don't know" does not exist in his vocabulary. Just sayin'.

[Tom In VA]

I believe, you and I might be wrong. I know what I don't know. And I don't know whether or not there is life after death, because I've never been dead.

Evidently thinking for yourself and applying even a modest bit of critical reasoning is out of the question, right?

Pitiful.

Still boils down to speculation. So keep up the names and insults champ, it really lends creedence to your ability at "critical reasoning" and "thinking for yourself".

It really is funny, a poster whose opinion I've come to truly respect in matters of state, philosophy, and a variety of other things .... is so afraid on this one issue. So afraid to entertain the notion he might be wrong.

See, I've been in your seat, I asked for proof. Keep asking for it, it will come. We're all just scared children in the eyes of God.

God Bless.

[Dinsdale]

No, this won't get the thumpers worked up at all.

YOU'RE MELTING!!!

YOU'RE MELTING!!!

YOU'RE MELTING!!!

YOU'RE MELTING!!!

YOU'RE MELTING!!!

YOU'RE MELTING!!!

YOU'RE MELTING!!!

YOU'RE MELTING!!!

YOU'RE MELTING!!!

Classic.


Massive BODE goes to Trollfessor.

[Tom In VA]

I'm not a bible thumper Dins. I'm a sinner. But then again you're another "know it all" that doesn't know shit.

[Tom In VA]

is so afraid on this one issue.

Afraid of what, exactly? There is nothing there to fear.

Why are you so afraid to think? Your alleged "god" gave you brain. Presumably he intended you to use it.

Indeed. I believe you are afraid to entertain thoughts, i.e. use your brain, that there might be something to the spiritual side of "life".

Judeo-Christian aspects aside, so many different peoples and cultures have "believed" if not perceived both corporal and spiritual, that there MIGHT be something to it.

So be it. As I said, I cannot provide you the proof you need, but you did ask for it. I believe it will come, in God's time.

God Bless.

[Terry in Crapchester]

I could show up in a RC church in any town and take Communion without repercussions.

When I was a teenager and trying to fit in with my nearly 100% Catholic East Rochester HS football team, I would take Communion all the time when the football team would go to Friday Mass. Nobody ever said a word to me about it ever.

Personaly I never understood the big deal about having to be in the "right" denomination to take Communion at a certain Church. I am absolutely certain that Jesus didn't include any demonimational language in the Last Supper.

My wife is a Baptist. We often go to Church as a family, sometimes at her Church, and sometimes at mine.

They don't offer Communion at every service in her Church, but I've been there when they do, and I receive communion. I can still receive Communion without repercussion at my Church.

I get what MtLR is saying: the Catholic Church doesn't "excommunicate" you, per se, you excommunicate yourself. But like I said, excommuncation, in any event, means a lot more to my mother than it does to me, even though she disagrees with the Church's position on any of a number of issues (e.g., priestly celibacy, stem cell research).

[Luther]

When I was a teenager and trying to fit in with my nearly 100% Catholic East Rochester HS football team, I would take Communion all the time.

No they didn't object to you taking communion, but they did object to you using cheese whiz to make swirllies on your biblical bread, you cossack.

Rip City

[BSmack]

Certain things have come to light. And, you know, has it ever occurred to you, that, instead of, uh, you know, running around, uh, uh, blaming me, you know, given the nature of all this new shit, you know, I-I-I-I... this could be a-a-a-a lot more, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, complex, I mean, it's not just, it might not be just such a simple... uh, you know?

Got it Dude.

:wink:

[Tom In VA]

I get what MtLR is saying: the Catholic Church doesn't "excommunicate" you, per se, you excommunicate yourself. But like I said, excommuncation, in any event, means a lot more to my mother than it does to me, even though she disagrees with the Church's position on any of a number of issues (e.g., priestly celibacy, stem cell research).

And your respect, honoring of, and love of your mother and her thoughts is very mature and selfless. I personally applaud you and wish I had the same in this manner.

[Tom In VA]

Certain things have come to light. And, you know, has it ever occurred to you, that, instead of, uh, you know, running around, uh, uh, blaming me, you know, given the nature of all this new shit, you know, I-I-I-I... this could be a-a-a-a lot more, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, complex, I mean, it's not just, it might not be just such a simple... uh, you know?

Got it Dude.

:wink:

Okay, you fuckers need to cut me some slack. I'm 19 days without ....



And am crazier than a shithouse rat.

[poptart]

Jay, I don't like the way the message of the Bible has been relayed to the people either.

[Jay in Phoenix]

Yeah poptart, that's been a point I've been trying to make for a while now. We were given the most amazing gift, and in so many ways, it has been squandered. Fortunately, the message will always exist for those who wish to find it.

Hope, like faith, will always be. You just have to believe.

Peace to all with an open mind.

[Mike the Lab Rat]

I get what MtLR is saying: the Catholic Church doesn't "excommunicate" you, per se, you excommunicate yourself.

I was pretty disappointed that I didn't get an official "EXCOMMUNICATED" notice from the local diocese when I was officially received into the Episcopal Church. I honestly thought that the Episcopal Diocese would at least drop a note to the RRC Diocese to let them know I switched denominations.

When I mentioned this to my brother (the monk), his response was "The Church doesn't send official notices because assholes like yourself would probably frame them and make a big deal of them. And why would you expect either diocese to bother?"

My reply: "Well, I figured that when I switched teams that they at least got a second round draft pick and other compensation to be determined..."

Look, just because he's a monk and all doesn't mean he stopped being my pain in the ass little brother...

[poptart]

There isn't one motherfucking iota of proof or evidence of any of the idiotic bullshit you profess to believe in.

There is evidence.

You just don't appear open to it.

[RadioFan]

Back to the topic at hand ...

Saw the movie this weekend -- it wasn't a bad flick.

No LOTR mind you, but a decent film with a few unexpected twists.

I haven't read the book.

Amazingly ... here it comes ....

My views on theology and my personal faith were ~ gasp ~ NOT affected by seeing the film, nor am I very concerned about possible ex-communication from the Catholic Church, which btw, is so incredibly ludicrous it borders on being hilarious.

It's a fucking movie, for Christ's sake. If you are stupid enough to think that it needs a disclaimer, you probably should never leave the house without supervision yourself. In fact, anyone who thinks anybody else's fundamental views on Jesus and the Bible is going to be changed by this freaking MOVIE probably should seek mental help. As in, do not pass go, do not collect dispensation, just check yourself in to a nuthouse.


Now ... let's move on and start being concerned with some really important matters -- like what "sins" are involved with really wanting to see the X-Men next weekend.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Now ... let's move on and start being concerned with some really important matters -- like what "sins" are involved with really wanting to see the X-Men next weekend.

You'll have to take that one up with my 7-year-old. He's the one who wants to see it -- I'll just be along for the ride.

[PSUFAN]

But like I said, excommuncation, in any event, means a lot more to my mother than it does to me, even though she disagrees with the Church's position on any of a number of issues (e.g., priestly celibacy, stem cell research).

I think that if you disagree with an organization on such key issues, and the organization isn't necessarily interested in how you feel about those issues, then you move along and find an organization that is more responsive to your involvement.

Of course, that's just me - I've already done as much.

[Terry in Crapchester]

But like I said, excommuncation, in any event, means a lot more to my mother than it does to me, even though she disagrees with the Church's position on any of a number of issues (e.g., priestly celibacy, stem cell research).

I think that if you disagree with an organization on such key issues, and the organization isn't necessarily interested in how you feel about those issues, then you move along and find an organization that is more responsive to your involvement.

Of course, that's just me - I've already done as much.

As I've said before, the only way I'll find a religion which agrees with all of my views is if I start my own. For all the faults the Catholic Church has, there are lots others out there that are far, far worse, at least imho.