T1B

Sudden Sam wrote:Speaking of kids:

My Jesus-lovin' son has been in and out of trouble his entire life. Still a bit aimless and troubled. My agnostic son has never had a problem and has his life going in a great direction.

Does this mean a damn thing at all?



BTW, I love 'em both more than anything.

I was raised Catholic, but it never really took. I can't remember, even as a kid, buying into its teachings or rituals. None of my three children were/are given a strong religious upbringing. My older son is 27, agnostic, seemingly well-adjusted (though, to my way of thinking, under-ambitious and sometimes riled by petty annoyances), and fairly happy with his life (single, law firm clerk, vegetarian, liberal enough to make me seem like Pat Buchanan, and somewhat of an activist). My 23-yr-old daughter is married w/ two children, a conservative, church-going Protestant whose husband aspires to become a preacher, works in accounting, looking to buy a first home, happy, and well-adjusted. My 12-yr-old son, who lives w/ his mom in SoCal but spends his school breaks w/ me here in VA, is happy, has seen much of this country, been to Paris, is gifted (he is enrolled in Johns Hopkins University's Center for Talented Youth, and began a three-week resident math course at Stanford as part of that program this past weekend), plays baseball and bassoon, and seems to be on his way to becoming a contributing member of society.

Frankly, I don't really care what religion they believe in or practice, as long as their decisions are based on rational thought, and their actions are good and just.

And I love the hell out of all three of 'em.

Derron wrote:...or who may simply put another notch on his Latin crank.

Seems like that would be painful. Damn savages.

Sudden Sam wrote:

Tom In VA wrote:Does one "believe in" a religion or practice it ?


I believe in God. I do not practice any religion or religious rituals.

That being said, I'd take a happy, compassionate, well adjusted atheist* over a brooding, tortured, and torturous "believer", any day of the week. But I don't have kids.

So we're brothers now?

:D

Always have been. I'm not a holy man, I aspire to be I suppose, but I am not. Nor am I the best example of a believer. But I do believe in God and I believe that Jesus was who He said He was and did what He was supposed to do.

I believe there are people who do not call or label themselves Christian that act and are more "Christian" than me, one who was raised Catholic.

Fundie, Muslim, Scientologist or polygamist Mormon. I also wouldn't be too thrilled about Jehovah's Witnesses, Hari Krishnas or Moonies.

Any of the others is okay as long as the kid is well adjusted.

I think I'd also have a problem with my kid worshipping Touchdown Jesus...

:-)

Derron wrote:

It's worked pretty well so far. She'll be leaving for Ecuador on a vacation Bible school mission trip in exactly one week, now that her passport finally arrived today 6 weeks after she paid $140 for it.

Where no doubt she will meet a good looking Latino stud boy named Alfredo who will most likely fuck the shit out of her numerous times, and ...

that only happens in no-budget porno mo...

...vies...

Oh....

ohhhh!

nevermind

Ruff, Derron, Smackie, Sam, Terry ........

Is there no truth you wish to pass on to your children ... ?

There is no salvation ... ?

Or is salvation ...... whatever one thinks it is .... ?

There is no truth ... ?

I'm sure there is "truth" but if we're to be honest with ourselves and especially with our kids then we first have to admit to ourselves and then to our kids that we can't possible know this "truth".

The best we can do is say, "Biff, there's about eight million stories under the sun, all of which attempt to explain some Big Picture issues. Here's the one I believe. Check it out, it goes something like this..."

Van wrote:I'm sure there is "truth" but if we're to be honest with ourselves and especially with our kids then we first have to admit to ourselves and then to our kids that we can't possible know this "truth".

The best we can do is say, "Biff, there's about eight million stories under the sun, all of which attempt to explain some Big Picture issues. Here's the one I believe. Check it out, it goes something like this..."

Rackable take.

Van wrote:The best we can do is say, "Biff, there's about eight million stories under the sun, all of which attempt to explain some Big Picture issues. Here's the one I believe. Check it out, it goes something like this..."

Yes, go on ......

Let's hear the truth that you would tell your children that you believe.

I would tell my kids that I just don't know.

If I had Faith I would tell them that I had Faith in this, that or the other, and here's why I believe what I believe over this, that, or the other...

pop, like I said, I don't wish agnosticism on anyone. I'd much rather have Faith, either in religion or atheism. I envy those who do, even those who actually believe in something as silly as a literal interpretation of the bible.

It doesn't matter whether they're right or wrong. What matters is the comfort and serenity they derive from having Faith, which is a comfort and serenity I've never had and will never have, short of actual contact from God.

So, that's what I'd tell my children. I'd be honest with them about all of it, and then I'd encourage them to seek their own path. I'd encourage them not to worship anything they felt deep down to be false, just in the name of "going along"...

Van wrote:So, that's what I'd tell my children. I'd be honest with them about all of it, and then I'd encourage them to seek their own path. I'd encourage them not to worship anything they felt deep down to be false, just in the name of "going along"...

Improvisational Church of Guitars and Crotchrockets?

socal wrote:

Van wrote:So, that's what I'd tell my children. I'd be honest with them about all of it, and then I'd encourage them to seek their own path. I'd encourage them not to worship anything they felt deep down to be false, just in the name of "going along"...

Improvisational Church of Guitars and Crotchrockets?

Well, sure, but let's also include Real Tits, New York Style Thin Crust Pizza, No DH In Baseball, No Astroturf (except for cool blue turf like Bosie State's), Mandatory Lipstick Lesbian Bisexuality and The Complete Banning Of the Prevent Defense.

Van wrote:I would tell my kids that I just don't know.

If I had Faith I would tell them that I had Faith in this, that or the other, and here's why I believe what I believe over this, that, or the other...

pop, like I said, I don't wish agnosticism on anyone. I'd much rather have Faith, either in religion or atheism. I envy those who do, even those who actually believe in something as silly as a literal interpretation of the bible.

It doesn't matter whether they're right or wrong. What matters is the comfort and serenity they derive from having Faith, which is a comfort and serenity I've never had and will never have, short of actual contact from God.

So, that's what I'd tell my children. I'd be honest with them about all of it, and then I'd encourage them to seek their own path. I'd encourage them not to worship anything they felt deep down to be false, just in the name of "going along"...

The only thing I disagree with here is the envy part. I don't envy those with faith. In the end it won't matter either way.

In the end, no, it won't. In the meantime, yeah, it does.

only in your own head, Van. I went to a catholic wedding recently and couldn't take it. The whole ceremony was a robotic performance, the priest utterly clueless ( he was marrying two people, one who had been married before, and he gave them a speech err sermon about how marriage is forever and if you break away from it you are committing adultery - WTF?)

I think the B & G completely missed the adultery part as the priest wove it into recitations of scripture and other ramblings and most people tuned out.

But I came a way with this impression that most of the "believers" were nothing more than sheep who went to church out of guilt or obligation and not desire and performed the rituals by rote not true belief.

Plus, I don't see faith in a god as being all that comforting if you tragically lose someone. I'd have an easier time coming to grips with that situation if I knew that "shit happens" sometimes, rather than it being the will of some mystical creature who created us. That would piss me right off.

Or, you could take comfort in such a tragedy being God's will, plus you get the additional comfort of believing you'll see them again soon in the afterlife.

Van wrote:Real Tits

RACK

New York Style Thin Crust Pizza

Thin crust is for fags.

No DH In Baseball

Sending a career .095 hitter to the plate every ninth AB is pretty gay. Hence, the dominance of the Heterosexual League.

cool blue turf like Bosie State's

After reading that, Cicero posts just won't sound as fucking stupid anymore.

The Complete Banning Of the Prevent Defense.

But on this, I'm sure we can all agree. Still doesn't make up for the Smurf Turf "take."

"Gods will" hmmm. That one always bugged me.

Guy goes camping in wilderness gets mauled by a bear and priest says its "gods will"

How about camper stupidity?

OJ is still alive, and a little girl walking down a sidewalk gets killed by a hit and run driver.

How about jury ignorance and wrong place wrong time?

Really,

Is Gods will THAT selectable, is it some type of a lottery, or is it just a comfort phrase to enable those left behind to get to the acceptance phase of death?

don't you think if this god was so actively, specifically involved in everyones lives here that he takes this life and leaves that one that there would be some discernable pattern and not the absolute randomness that exists?

As for the afterlife, If it exists, it will be there any way, IMO.
If there are some sort of prerequisites to a heaven like afterlife, pretty much everyone better hope god grades on a curve.

Dins, I only like Boise's State's blue turf precisely because it's so freaking ridiculous.

As the DH, I dunno, I just grew up a National League fan and the DH still seems so Fat Drunken Softball Guy to me...

I'd also like to add: The Immediate On Court Execution By Firing Squad Of Any NBA Player Who Shoots Less Than 60% From The Charity Stripe

(Edit: If You Ever Burp Up An Airball On A Freethrow You At Least Get Pelted By Courtside Nachos)

Van wrote:Dins, I only like Boise's State's blue turf precisely because it's so freaking ridiculous.

I was disappointed when the Enemy(Oregon State) went in there a couple of years ago, and didn't opt to wear the orange head-to-toe. THAT would have been awesome.

As the DH, I dunno, I just grew up a National League fan and the DH still seems so Fat Drunken Softball Guy to me...

No -- fat drunken softball guy thinks it's a good idea to send a guy who doesn't even take BP seriously to the plate. But as mentioned before, it takes a lot of the managing out of the NL(despite arguments to the contrary) -- in the AL, a manager has to actually think about using his bully resources to stop a rally...an NL manager need only wait a few at-bats. And when they do send lifetime .105 guy to the plate, everybody and their brother knows he's bunting(badly) if there's runners on.

On your side of the argument, yeah, like most everybody else I'd rather watch Frank Thomas bat than Orel Hershiser...

Like most everything involved with sports these days I'm just caring less and less, one way or the other...

Dinsdale wrote:

New York Style Thin Crust Pizza

Thin crust is for fags.

Aren't you a Brit? The same country that makes "cuisine" like peanut butter and onion sandwiches and peanut butter and bacon sandwiches? Steak and kidney pie?

Sorry, but NYC thin crust pizza is the best in the world.

The thicker, Wonderbread crust may appeal more to those with softer teeth and gums from poor dental work, but that Sicilian-esque crap (including "chicago deep dish") barely qualifies as pizza. Sicily was Europe's bitch and fucks up everything in its urge to imitate the mainland true Italians. Sicilian pizza is a step above English muffin pizzas made by drunk kids in college.

Criminy, next thing you know, you'll be singing the glories of those exotic toppings that are so trendy for the clueless. Look out - researchers have found a direct link between the urge to put fruity-ass toppings like pineapple on pizza and pederasty.

Mister Bushice wrote:only in your own head, Van. I went to a catholic wedding recently and couldn't take it. The whole ceremony was a robotic performance, the priest utterly clueless ( he was marrying two people, one who had been married before, and he gave them a speech err sermon about how marriage is forever and if you break away from it you are committing adultery - WTF?)

I think the B & G completely missed the adultery part as the priest wove it into recitations of scripture and other ramblings and most people tuned out.

But I came a way with this impression that most of the "believers" were nothing more than sheep who went to church out of guilt or obligation and not desire and performed the rituals by rote not true belief.

Plus, I don't see faith in a god as being all that comforting if you tragically lose someone. I'd have an easier time coming to grips with that situation if I knew that "shit happens" sometimes, rather than it being the will of some mystical creature who created us. That would piss me right off.

Men mistakenly attempt to meet God in three ways.

* philosophy
* good works
* religion

Catholicism is religion to the nth degree.

Only serves to oppress folks, and ultimately takes them further into their problems.