T1B

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:16 am**

Van wrote:-I have no problem with Madden. Sure, he's getting older, to the point that he's slowing down verbally. Thing about Madden though, always...he's honest.

Knowledge, honesty and more than a modicum of enjoyable personality, hey, combine those things with his obvious undiminished passion for the game and I have no problem with him.

-No, the CFL really shouldn't count in terms of enshrinement into Canton. Neither should the WFL or NFL Europe or the Arena League. Warren Moon was not an NFL Hall Of Famer, even if he was a CFL Hall Of Famer. In fact, if Moon were white I have a suspicion that he wouldn't have received the HOF's politically motivated and politically necessary phone call.

The Hall Of Fame should be a no brainer deal. If you're not sure if the guy belongs, he doesn't.

Warren Moon is in that category. Think back to when he was playing for Houston. At any point in his career there did you ever feel that he was the dominant QB in the league, the best QB out there, and a genuine game changing leader?

To be in the HOF you needed to be that guy at your position, at least for a little while, if not for most of your career. Warren Moon was always...The Opponent. He was never Joe or Dan (either one) or Roger or you name it.

He was just The Opponent, and he never won a truly big game in the NFL in his entire career. He sure lost a bunch though...

He was sort of the Don Sutton of the NFL, a guy who simply stuck around long enough to where he eventually amassed some great career stats. Great stats, yep, but you never felt either guy was ever truly The Man...

-Dan Marino on the other hand is a complete no brainer for the HOF. He DID take a very overmatched team to a Super Bowl and he completely rewrote the NFL individual season and career records book. His teams were always in the playoffs and he was always The Man in any game in which he set foot on the field.

When SF played Miami in that Super Bowl, hell, when anybody ever played Miami, everybody in the stadium knew that Marino was the key and he was either going to give a performance of a lifetime and win the game regardless or he was just going to merely get his usual numbers or less and Miami would lose.

Marino was the most feared QB in the league, for a long time. Yeah, Montana was Montana and there's no arguing Joe but in terms of the players on defense Marino was feared for being The Ultimate Gunslinger, long before Brett Favre assumed that role...

Van,

I think you kinda KYOA there a little. First you note that Warren basically never won anything, then you hold up as an example to the contrary, someone who.....basically never won anything. I will give you that he won nothing in more spectacular fashion than any other QB in history, but, the fact remains, you, warren and I have as many rings. Warren can atleast say he won a bunch of them in AA. Can't really call CFL triple A. That would be college ball.

Not tring to say that Dan doesn't belong. Surely he does. Just could have constructed a better arguement.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:19 am**

I honestly can't think of any way that Flutie honestly deserves a nod for the HOF. He was a peppy little trooper who did some occasionally useful work, a couple of spectacular tosses or runs, and that was it.

The guy has a few highlight shots we can remember, but that isn't anywhere enough to get him into Canton ahead of far, far, more deserving and talented guys.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:41 am**

smackaholic, at no point did my argument include the notion that one must win a ring before deserving enshrinement in the HOF, in any team sport.

Ernie Banks, Merlin Olsen, Karl Malone...Ted Williams...the list goes on and on. No way in a team sport is a ring a prerequisite, especially in a 22 man team sport. It can help, absolutely, but it's not a cast in stone prerequisite.

What I said about Moon is that ne never won ANY big games in the NFL. He didn't.

Marino did.

What I said about Moon was that he was NEVER "The Man" in the NFL. He wasn't.

Marino was.

What I said about Moon (or anybody) was that if you're not sure if he belongs...he doesn't. With Moon, you have to sit there and mull it over.

What I said about Marino was that his enshrinement was an absolute no-brainer. Always. There was never a doubt. That's how it's supposed to be.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:48 am**

jtr wrote:Doug Flutie will probably get into the Hall because of his days at Boston College and in the Canadian Football League moreso than for anything he's done in the NFL.

No FUCKING way. I'm guessing his college career doesn't count for much in the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:52 am**

jtr,

Please tell me you're trolling dude. I just don't want to believe anybody is that stupid.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:42 am**

I was kidding guess i need to place sarcasm tags when doing so, my bad. Eric Crouch is on Ricky Williams team this yr in CFL lol they should call it the Chump league, huh?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:51 am**

He was a big numbers guy, yes, but I think a QB has to actually WIN something to take a seat among the elite players who have ever played.

Really? Weird.

Sin,
Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Peyton Manning,

...but it's cool if I sit there, right Pop?

Sin,
Trent Dilfer, et al...

:rolleyes:

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:56 am**

Believe me, I am down with the idea of an unpolished color guy breaking things down. However, I just don't find Madden to be very insightful. He seems to suck the life out of football broadcasts. He's done so many broadcasts, that his drone has come to embody the lifeless, uninspired side of the NFL. Like I said above, I don't need a dude...no matter what his coaching record was...to tell me that Randy Moss is something special. I fucking know he is, and if it's news to you, then you haven't been watching much football the last decade.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:08 am**

PSU - I'd challenge you, in a 3 hour + live program, to maintain an ability to say something completely profound every time you spoke.

A few cliches, a few Captain Obvious takes are going to slip from time-to-time. It's just part of conversing, in general. Basing your judgement on something so trivial is a little unfair.

There's a fine line here, though. In one instance, you might want to stay silent if you have nothing provocative to say...in another, dead air is frowned upon even more by the networks.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:14 am**

That's not it at all. Of course, it's doubtful that I'd be better than Madden...but there are plenty of broadcasters that would be. The example of the Moss comment is indicative of many such statements he makes. He beats Mushburger up and down the barnyard, but that's about it.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:17 am**

any football players who were proud to wear this logo should be shot!

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:26 am**

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:PSU - I'd challenge you, in a 3 hour + live program, to maintain an ability to say something completely profound every time you spoke.

Profound? Like this?

AirBag Madden wrote:Well, see, this guy was going that way and that other guy was going this way and then it was like...BOOM!

Yep.

That about sums up John Maddens career in the booth.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:36 am**

PSUFAN wrote:He beats Mushburger up and down the barnyard, but that's about it.

Probably one thing we can all agree on.

At least when Madden is at his worst, he's merely predictable. Musberger truly almost acts like he doesn't know anything about the game of football.

'Course, we're talking about two different jobs here. Madden still is, afterall, an analyst. A good analyst is usually boring by nature. When he's not breaking down a play, I'm not exactly looking to Madden for his fresh insights on much else.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:48 am**

jtr wrote:
any football players who were proud to wear this logo should be shot!

will ya take a look at who's running career pride smack?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 11:08 am**

the_ouskull wrote:
He was a big numbers guy, yes, but I think a QB has to actually WIN something to take a seat among the elite players who have ever played.
Really? Weird.

Sin,
Dan Marino, Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Dan Fouts, Peyton Manning,

...but it's cool if I sit there, right Pop?

Sin,
Trent Dilfer, et al...

:rolleyes:

the_skullfucked,

Warren Moon won ONE division title in his 17 yrs in the NFL, and he never even appeared in a single Conference Championship Game.

Marino - 5 Division Championships, one Conference Title

Tarkenton - 5 Division Championships, one Conference Title

Kelly - 5 Division Championships, four Conference Titles

Fouts (who I, btw, would not have voted in to the Hall) - 3 Division Championships, one Conference Title Game appearance

Manning - 3 Division Championships, one Conference Title Game appearance ..... so far

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:29 pm**

RACK Mgo, nice breakdown of it all and a well formed take.

Poptart, still not getting your issue though. If you had to be a member of a championship TEAM, then shouldn't entire teams be inducted into the Hall ?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:07 pm**

Tom, a QB has, by far, the most direct ability of any player on the field to determine the fortune of a football team.

For a QB to play in the league for 17 yrs and win but ONE division title and to have QBed just THREE winning playoff games (with 7 losses) is not an impressive thing.

Moon was a real good QB.
And he was that for a long time.
He had durability and longevity.

He was NOT, IMO, a GREAT NFL player though.

Who was a better QB, Ken Stabler or Warren Moon ... ?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:39 pm**

poptart wrote:Tom, a QB has, by far, the most direct ability of any player on the field to determine the fortune of a football team.

I think those dudes in front of him might have a bit more of an impact, but as an individual player I suppose you're right. It all starts with the snap and the QB gets the ball first.

BTW Fuck the HoF until Art Monk gets in there.

poptart wrote: For a QB to play in the league for 17 yrs and win but ONE division title and to have QBed just THREE winning playoff games (with 7 losses) is not an impressive thing.

It is to me. Hell any guy playing football for a living impresses me, I only made it as far as H.S. and had "POTENTIAL" to be nothing more than a DIII player. So my hats off and props to any guy making it past me.

BTW Fuck the HoF until Art Monk gets in there.

poptart wrote: Moon was a real good QB.
He was NOT, IMO, a GREAT NFL player though.

Indeed, and some real knowledgeable folks see fit to place him in the HoF. My concern ... Where's his o line ? And that's for any pretty boy QB making it into the Hall. Damn QB's got all the broads.

BTW Fuck the HoF until Art Monk gets in there.

poptart wrote: Who was a better QB, Ken Stabler or Warren Moon ... ?

BTW Fuck the HoF until Art Monk gets in there.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 2:46 pm**

The rap on Monk is actually a bit similar to the rap people put on Moon.

Longevity and big numbers, but not true greatness.

I see Monk differently though, and I've always thought he should be in.

If you prophecied to a guy coming out of college that he will go on to have more receptions at the time of retirement than any previous player, you would also tell him that it is an absolute no-brainer that he'll be a Hall of Famer, right ... ?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:14 pm**

jtr wrote:
any football players who were proud to wear this logo should be shot!

Any actor who would settle for non speaking roles should make like he's at work and STFU.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:19 pm**

Seems he meets you criterion for having played on Championship teams as well.

He'll get in, in due time. I mean some of the main points of contention about Monk is that he only made it to THREE pro bowls ?

It all seems pretty arbitrary and WAY too subjective to me anyway.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:21 pm**

Tom In VA wrote:Seems he meets you criterion for having played on Championship teams as well.

He'll get in, in due time. I mean some of the main points of contention about Monk is that he only made it to THREE pro bowls ?

It all seems pretty arbitrary and WAY too subjective to me anyway.

The John Mackey out front should have told you that.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:42 pm**

BSmack wrote:
jtr wrote:
any football players who were proud to wear this logo should be shot!
Any actor who would settle for non speaking roles should make like he's at work and STFU.

This smack no longer works dude, ive been speaking for a few years now.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:44 pm**

GAAAAAHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:06 pm**

jtr wrote:
BSmack wrote:Any actor who would settle for non speaking roles should make like he's at work and STFU.
This smack no longer works dude, ive been speaking for a few years now.

And Moon was in the NFL for a few years. So what's yer fuckin point duchebag?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 5:14 pm**

mvscal wrote: A few grunts and a squeal or two isn't exactly speaking.

And a few sips of water isn't complete rehydration after crawling across the Sahara.

Baby steps, mv...baby steps.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 6:54 pm**

BSmack wrote:
smackaholic wrote:As for you madden haytahs, you suck. Maybe you don't like his big fat loud crazy guy shtick, but, once you get past that, you have to admit, he is a fukking football genius. Unlike most every other color commentator I have ever seen, he doesn't say one stupid fukking thing after another just because he is paid to fill the air with sound.
I've got three words for you. Super Bowl XXXVI.

BWAHAHAHA!! One of our favorite sequences of all time up here in New England.....

Thanks Brady Bunch for shoving it right down Madden's gullet......

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:10 pm**

Dinsdale wrote:GAAAAAHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUGGGGGGHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!

Was that a groan of frustration or just an example of a jtr speaking role? If it is the later you should have provided a credit.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:12 pm**

Ohh, and fukk art monk in his windpipe. The REAL HOF injustice is the abscence of Rush. Gene Pitney gets in before Geddy, Neil and Alex?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:15 pm**

smackaholic wrote:Was that a groan of frustration or just an example of a jtr speaking role? If it is the later you should have provided a credit.

Surely somebody must have a youtube link or some shit to Jess getting whacked by a D&D dork with a cardboard sword, or some other such shreik-inducing object?

One day, I was hanging out with a bunch of buddies, getting drunk, and watching a ball game. That commercial came on. Just as my lips were considering committing the pile-onable error of using the words "I know that guy...sort of," one of my (drunk)friends spoke up with "That has got to be the worst commercial I've seen in my life. If that fat fucking dork was here right now, I'd punch his fat fucking face into a fucking pulp, for being the most offensive character to ever appear in a commercial...no easy task."

I opted to remain silent at that point.

That ever happen to you guys?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:19 pm**

Thankfully, the opportunity hasn't arisen yet. if it ever does I think I'll go with shut the fukk up to myself.

If you are gonna go zysdale it ought to atleast be over something better than a pissmop, even if it does have a "speaking role".

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 7:33 pm**

Dinsdale wrote:
smackaholic wrote:Was that a groan of frustration or just an example of a jtr speaking role? If it is the later you should have provided a credit.

Surely somebody must have a youtube link or some shit to Jess getting whacked by a D&D dork with a cardboard sword, or some other such shreik-inducing object?

One day, I was hanging out with a bunch of buddies, getting drunk, and watching a ball game. That commercial came on. Just as my lips were considering committing the pile-onable error of using the words "I know that guy...sort of," one of my (drunk)friends spoke up with "That has got to be the worst commercial I've seen in my life. If that fat fucking dork was here right now, I'd punch his fat fucking face into a fucking pulp, for being the most offensive character to ever appear in a commercial...no easy task."

I opted to remain silent at that point.

That ever happen to you guys?

Thanks for the support Sy Sperling.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:25 pm**

Yes, you read correctly, Jess just attempted to run "Physical Appearance" smack on Dins.

Jess.

Physical Appearance Smack.

Yup.

There may be something to that Iranian leader's apocalyptic warnings after all...

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:34 pm**

Dinsdale wrote:
smackaholic wrote:Was that a groan of frustration or just an example of a jtr speaking role? If it is the later you should have provided a credit.

Surely somebody must have a youtube link or some shit to Jess getting whacked by a D&D dork with a cardboard sword, or some other such shreik-inducing object?

One day, I was hanging out with a bunch of buddies, getting drunk, and watching a ball game. That commercial came on. Just as my lips were considering committing the pile-onable error of using the words "I know that guy...sort of," one of my (drunk)friends spoke up with "That has got to be the worst commercial I've seen in my life. If that fat fucking dork was here right now, I'd punch his fat fucking face into a fucking pulp, for being the most offensive character to ever appear in a commercial...no easy task."

I opted to remain silent at that point.

That ever happen to you guys?

You were having a drink with Elvis Monster?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 8:45 pm**

Dinsdale wrote:Surely somebody must have a youtube link or some shit to Jess getting whacked by a D&D dork with a cardboard sword, or some other such shreik-inducing object?

One day, I was hanging out with a bunch of buddies, getting drunk, and watching a ball game. That commercial came on. Just as my lips were considering committing the pile-onable error of using the words "I know that guy...sort of," one of my (drunk)friends spoke up with "That has got to be the worst commercial I've seen in my life. If that fat fucking dork was here right now, I'd punch his fat fucking face into a fucking pulp, for being the most offensive character to ever appear in a commercial...no easy task."

I opted to remain silent at that point.

That ever happen to you guys?

That would've been the ultimate in Zysdalian moves, right there man.

You're sitting around with some buds, and some random commercial comes on to which everyone chimes in with some smartass comment. And of course, you're "that guy" that breaks out the, "Yeah, I know that guy." Would've been classic.

I admitted to that one night, and I'm pretty sure that admission "cock-blocked" me.

I was like, "Uhh, yeah I know that guy."

"Really?"

"Well, kinda...we post on this message board."

Them: "Gotta go."

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:01 pm**

You were sitting around with some "buds", and you got "cock-blocked"?

Where to start with this one?

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 9:03 pm**

He could change his nic to MgoBrown-EyeSpecial.

Posted: **Tue Aug 08, 2006 10:19 pm**

PSUFAN wrote:You were sitting around with some "buds", and you got "cock-blocked"?

Where to start with this one?

What I wrote:

You're sitting around with some buds

YOU'RE you're YOU'RE

What was so confusing about that?

Posted: **Wed Aug 09, 2006 12:23 pm**

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
PSUFAN wrote:You were sitting around with some "buds", and you got "cock-blocked"?

Where to start with this one?
What I wrote:

You're sitting around with some buds
YOU'RE you're YOU'RE

What was so confusing about that?

What you also wrote:

I admitted to that one night, and I'm pretty sure that admission "cock-blocked" me.

I was like, "Uhh, yeah I know that guy."

"Really?"

"Well, kinda...we post on this message board."

Them: "Gotta go."

T1B

This is kinda gross