T1B

Tom In VA wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:

Ingse Bodil wrote:My problem is with you holding up the New World's atrocities as some kind of epitome of inhumanity and bestialness. As BSmack and Tom in VA are proving

If you ever spent any time at TNW, you know that BSmack and Hillbilly in VA were responsible for a lot of atrocities on that board. Pretty much unreadable.

You're actually coming up with original stuff today. A change from your typical gravy training.


Congrats.

Gravy tyraining? How so?

I'm on pins and needles over the outcome of this Old World vs. New World barbarism "debate".

See You Next Wednesday wrote:I'm on pins and needles .....

That could be arranged ......

http://www.occasionalhell.com/infdevice ... sh%20Chair

Tom In VA wrote:

See You Next Wednesday wrote:I'm on pins and needles .....

That could be arranged ......

http://www.occasionalhell.com

that entire site is sick, but only because people actually used such items or
(like with the witch's spider) continue to use them today. why do people feel
the need to torture one another in this way? do other animals do this to one
another, torture for the sake of torture or torture for the pleasure of torture?

it's not even like it's for the ancestral sake of eating, since our original ancestors
were herbivores, right?

Ingse Bodil wrote:it's not even like it's for the ancestral sake of eating, since our original ancestors
were herbivores, right?

Not sure about our Mastodon hunting ancestors, but I'm pretty sure this guy liked his herbs.

mvscal wrote:

Ingse Bodil wrote:The emperor is god. God's will be done. That's not religion? The pleasure of god is only entertainment, not religion? Destroying heretics before God, and the Glory which is God, is not about religion?

That is not what was going on in the arena and gladitorial games pre-date the Empire by several centuries at least.

The Romans weren't particularly devout practitioners of any religion and in many instances latched onto different religions as fashionable fads.

Religion as fad is still religion. The Romans certainly weren't areligious. Besides, you don't grow up in a nation which worships its ancestors, and has elaborate superstitions regarding Fortuna and the Lares (not to mention the kinship felt for Mars and Venus, to be a people directly descended from the gods themselves), and not be affected by the whole deal.

As for the Arena and Gladiatorial games: the presence of the Vestals says there was a significant religious element, if not an overwhelming religious element. They were arguably the most powerful women in Rome, and among the most powerful people in Rome. Why couldn't their presence at the games give the events held at the coliseum a divine stamp of approval older than the emperor gods?

then there's this dude:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Septimius_Severus (which is kind to him: "There is no evidence of systematic persecution, and there is much evidence that not only was the Emperor not personally hostile to the Christians, but he even protected them against the populace. There were doubtless Christians in his own household, and in his reign the Church at Rome had almost absolute peace. On the other hand, individual officials availed themselves of the laws to proceed with rigor against the Christians. Naturally the emperor, with his strict conception of law, did not hinder such partial persecution, which took place in Egypt and the Thebaid, as well as in Africa proconsularis and the East. ")

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/path ... romans.htm (which, strangely, mentions nothing about his part in the martyrdom of christians. they don't want to associate a great black man with a great tragedy? or what?)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saints_Per ... _Felicitas (which blames him explicitly: "By order of Septimius Severus (193–211), all imperial subjects were forbidden under severe penalties to become Christians or Jews. Only recent converts were affected.")

I wonder can understand why wikipedia gives two different accounts... or maybe the official entry about the Church at Rome intentionally leaves out everything that happened outside of Rome, since Vibia Perpetua and Felicitas and their companions were murdered in Carthage. If I'm reading this right. It's wikipedia. Let the reader beware. What I don't understand is the national archives not having a word to say either way about him.


What threat did Christians represent that they were tossed to the lions, so to speak, in coliseums and games across the empire? I thought it was specifically because the Christians (like the Jews) refused to worship the Emperors as God.... is their sacrifice not a show of rome's gods attempting to have it over the Christians (and Jews) gods? or what?

mvscal wrote:The Mayans were long gone before the Spaniards showed up.

My bad then.

So who was it that was so relieved when the Spaniards didn't immediately start chopping out their hearts?

The Mayans wern't "gone" when the Spaniards rolled up. Rather, the insanely intense and dynamic religious imperitive had mysteriously disappeared. That which had demanded and achieved the pyramids, temples and elaborate civic design and social structure had apparently stopped suddenly. There are no records (though incalcuable amounts of detailed info were rashly destroyed by the lunatic Christers, etc.), no one--and certainly not a religious freak like Mel--has any better theory than anyone else.

What we do know about--especially in terms of mass religious sacrifice--is the good ol' Aztecs. Their Nazi -like run lasted only five hundred or so precisely measured years. Who knows, perhaps they WERE the descendents of the Mayan priests who fled (with the SECRET alien tech device, etc.) and lived up in Texas, actually, from where we know they descended into Mexico to arrive in present day Mexico City around 1200 bce. Their rise, development, and sheer body count in sun sacrifices far exceeds their predecessors.

What did they do? They made themselves obnoxious as Christian fanatics have been doing every since that miserable fag was first nailed to the Cross.

I had a response written out for you, but frankly everything pales when run up against this phrase. Why are you angry at Christ Jesus? I'll call out a christer quick as anyone, but I won't say anything bad about Jesus/Yeshua himself. The man didn't harm anyone, or hate anyone. It would be like hating Buddha (though Siddhartha did some fucked up shit, but that was before and maybe he didn't know better because of his culture) or hating on Pope John Paul II for forgiving his assassin.

How has Jesus failed you?

How has Jesus failed you?

When he was a Baby, he was an asshole, ok?

If you want to call superstition a religion, then ya Romans were 'religious'.

titlover wrote:If you want to call superstition a religion, then ya Romans were 'religious'.

How is it superstition?

Not walking under a ladder because doing so means losing your hair by the 3rd day is superstition. Not walking under a ladder because it pleases your god not to do so is a religion. Not walking under a ladder because one can better contemplate the divine without putting one's self in potentially dangerous situations is spirituality.

All religions have the potential to be treated as superstition or spirituality. Mercury can mean something to you, in a very real and profound spiritual way. Living one's life in a way that one's ancestors would be proud of your decisions can also be a profound and spiritual experience. Just because it's not judeo-christian-muslim, doesn't automatically make it a superstition.

Though, praying to the christian god for material things, or doing things in hopes of material benefits later down the road from the christian god, is turning spirituality into superstition. Are you Christian?

mvscal wrote:

LTS TRN 2 wrote:The Mayans wern't "gone" when the Spaniards rolled up.

Yes...they were. There were (and still are) some degenerate ethnic remnants, but the Maya as a discrete political and cultural entity were dust by the time the Spanish showed up.

Well, as I pointed out, the Mayan imperative--the religious/social dynami--had indeed been apparently dormant for about 500 years when the Spanish arrived. (And, I mistakenly suggested the Aztecs arrived in the Mexico about 1200 bce. This of course should read 1200 AD)

But, because the intricate and industrious priest culture was gone, the Mayans were STILL THERE. That is, the population had apparently NOT decreased significantly.

Had they stopped their human sacrifices completely? No. And similar vestiges of their social codes and rituals were still remembered and practiced. Their language, dress, agriculture and hunting remained.

Bottom line, while using an admittedly ambitious action-flick scenerio, Mad Mel is just piling on what he clearly regards as False God-Worshipping Heathens who basically deserved what they got. And if this included mass murder and thievery by an invading gang of Religious Freaks, well that's okay, because those were MEL'S freaks.

We can all appreciate, however, Mel's comparing the senseless mass human sacrifices of the Mayans to the continued sending of American men into the maw of Iraq.

The Maw is showing right now...

http://www.flurl.com/item/Ali_Hadi_u_197644

Ingse Bodil wrote:

titlover wrote:If you want to call superstition a religion, then ya Romans were 'religious'.

How is it superstition?

Not walking under a ladder because doing so means losing your hair by the 3rd day is superstition. Not walking under a ladder because it pleases your god not to do so is a religion. Not walking under a ladder because one can better contemplate the divine without putting one's self in potentially dangerous situations is spirituality.

All religions have the potential to be treated as superstition or spirituality. Mercury can mean something to you, in a very real and profound spiritual way. Living one's life in a way that one's ancestors would be proud of your decisions can also be a profound and spiritual experience. Just because it's not judeo-christian-muslim, doesn't automatically make it a superstition.

Though, praying to the christian god for material things, or doing things in hopes of material benefits later down the road from the christian god, is turning spirituality into superstition. Are you Christian?

it's superstition when you think something silly as birds flying a certain way means bad luck for you.

which is exactly the type of stuff they believed in. certain signs meant either bad luck or good luck. how is that religious?

titlover wrote:
it's superstition when you think something silly as birds flying a certain way means bad luck for you.

which is exactly the type of stuff they believed in. certain signs meant either bad luck or good luck. how is that religious?

http://www.slate.com/id/2111608/

There's a good chance the wildlife knew trouble was on the way. History is littered with tales about animals acting weirdly before natural disasters, but the phenomenon has been hard for scientists to pin down. Sometimes animals get crazy before a quake, sometimes they don't. Here's what we know: Animals have sensory abilities different from our own, and they might have tipped them off to Sunday's disaster.

First, it's possible that the animals may have heard the quake before the tsunami hit land. The underwater rupture likely generated sound waves known as infrasound or infrasonic sound. These low tones can be created by hugely energetic events, like meteor strikes, volcanic eruptions, avalanches, and earthquakes. Humans can't hear infrasound—the lowest key on a piano is about the lowest tone the human ear can detect. But many animals—dogs, elephants, giraffes, hippos, tigers, pigeons, even cassowaries—can hear infrasound waves.

Kind of makes you wonder if maybe there's a bit of truth to "bird watching" as it were.

Tom In VA wrote: Kind of makes you wonder if maybe there's a bit of truth to "bird watching" as it were.

An interesting find, Tom. Thank you. Of course, sacrificing animals is a great way to get some free food on the one hand, and to make some money on temple day on the other. But yes, there is something to some 'portents' in the wind.

But not in the way voodoo and santeria practictioners try to make themselves invisible. That's just taking advantage of the ignorant. There's some of that in all religions, though.

mvscal wrote:

titlover wrote:it's superstition when you think something silly as birds flying a certain way means bad luck for you.

which is exactly the type of stuff they believed in. certain signs meant either bad luck or good luck. how is that religious?

Yes, of course. They should have believed in sensible things like talking snakes, burning bushes (also talking) and virgin births.

Good job kicking your own ass, tard.

So what do you believe?

There are no spirits. There are no souls. There is no kindly old man waiting to reunite you with your dead puppies in his magical cloud city in the sky.
You just rot and your constituent molecules return to the earth.

Then what in the hell is my job after I assume?

I think earth is the AAA affiliate to the big leagues of death. I think we didn't make it the first time around, so the big guy is testing us a little more here. I think I'll make it up to the bigs after I shit my jammies for the last time. The ones who don't make it here (earth) might get sent down to zyclone. Zyclone is a world of fiction, imaginary pets, races, wins, the cures to STD's, and such.

People who elevate, but not quite to GOD's garage , post but you'll never see it. Cuz they are dead. Oh, I had one of those Ouija board deals, and I connected with Purple Rox and Scritti. The board moved around quite a bit, but I was confident in saying this:

theArtist aka b.t. has been playing with the truth.

Tom in Va. has bones in his closet.

Otis is a kind guy who is full of shit.

AP can launch off a carrier and has large American balls.

Rip City

Ask Scritti if the girls are still invisible in heaven.

RIP, Dennard

mvscal wrote:I believe in reality. Take a good look around you. This is it. The only world you'll ever see or know. Humans are nothing more than walking, talking meat. Once you're dead, you're done.

There are no spirits. There are no souls. There is no kindly old man waiting to reunite you with your dead puppies in his magical cloud city in the sky.

You just rot and your constituent molecules return to the earth.

This dull and sodden--and extremely lazy--evasion is typical from one who has been straight-up ass-backwards on a wide variety of subjects and events over the years. What a sorry hollow lump you really are. And this would but represent but a negligible piece of crap on the side of the road but for ruling system of efficiency in nature that if there's one of you--so unoriginal, so residual in your hunched insecurity--that there's MANY of you. Filling the ranks of the Dittohead nation, saddling up (metaphorically, of course) with Major McCain for the upcoming Surge. You're the abdicated coach potato with the mail-in mind. A posing cringing creep whose bluster is as fake as his fatuous content.

Spirit is in fact biological, not metaphysical (or "religious"). You're not even close. Really, you're walking around in a coal mine.

Wakey wake!!

mvscal wrote:

titlover wrote:it's superstition when you think something silly as birds flying a certain way means bad luck for you.

which is exactly the type of stuff they believed in. certain signs meant either bad luck or good luck. how is that religious?

Yes, of course. They should have believed in sensible things like talking snakes, burning bushes (also talking) and virgin births.

Good job kicking your own ass, tard.

not saying one was better just how they viewed it. it wasn't a religious attitiude. it was more of an aversion to bad luck. not some type of deity worship.