Page 2 of 3

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:45 pm
by OCmike
^^^Gets it. However, you lost me with "Work them like a step sister." Must be a midwest thing.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:52 pm
by Headhunter
Uh, I was thinking red-headed step child. But hey, I'm from Texas. I'm sure there are plenty of step sisters getting worked over around here.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:07 pm
by Neely8
When did the bleeding heart liberals take over the NFL?? Take the PC bullshit and shove it. Its football for christs sake. Its grown men paid an obscene amount of money to play a game. If the team that is getting their ass kicked wants to do something about it they have every right to. Stop them on the field. If they can't then that is their problem.......

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:12 pm
by BSmack
Neely8 wrote:When did the bleeding heart liberals take over the NFL?? Take the PC bullshit and shove it. Its football for christs sake. Its grown men paid an obscene amount of money to play a game. If the team that is getting their ass kicked wants to do something about it they have every right to. Stop them on the field. If they can't then that is their problem.......
I hope you're able to maintain that attitude when Brady gets snapped in half by a late hit or 10.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:16 pm
by Headhunter
Neely, have you never seen a team take a knee at the end of the game? Have you seen the Patriots take one yet this year?

Look, I know you can't see the forest for the trees. Pats fans are enjoying all this, and can't quite seem to see the problem. Juxtapose that against the shit Pats fans were taking over spygate and your reaction is quite predictable.

That doesn't make you right.

Believe me when I say this. Pats fans are going to learn all too well the other side of that coin. When the tables turn, the Patriots are going to be kicked when they are down.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 7:31 pm
by indyfrisco
BSmack wrote:
Neely8 wrote:When did the bleeding heart liberals take over the NFL?? Take the PC bullshit and shove it. Its football for christs sake. Its grown men paid an obscene amount of money to play a game. If the team that is getting their ass kicked wants to do something about it they have every right to. Stop them on the field. If they can't then that is their problem.......
I hope you're able to maintain that attitude when Brady gets snapped in half by a late hit or 10.
No shit. Everyone get ready to pull out your "If you can't take the hit, get off the field?" takes.

I was watching the Cheats game yesterday at my in-laws house. They are all Colts fans. Each and every one of them were saying "I wish someone would kneecap that bastard" when talking about Brandy. Do you Cheats fans don't think there's a defensive player out there that is seeing this that can't wait to put him on the IR?

Like HH said, it will happen. And you will cry about it when it does. And hopefully the mods here will sew your pussy up by deleting any shit posts of anyone who is defending the Cheats after what is going down.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:13 pm
by Th
Shoalzie wrote:I just think the Pats are playing with an enormous chip on their shoulder after losing last season and with the spy-gate scandal. I don't think they want to follow any unwritten rules. This team goes on the field this year with the objective of destroying the opposition. Belichik has never been accused of being a sweetheart and seeing what they're doing to other teams and not doing the gentlemanly thing by calling off the dogs shouldn't surprise anyone. I think putting the health of his star players at risk is maybe the only thing he should be questioned about although it hasn't backfired on him yet.



IN

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:14 pm
by Shine
Rack the fuck outta Headhunter, dropping knowledge all up in this bitch.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:35 pm
by RevLimiter
I'm not a fan of the Patriots obviously, but after watching that game yesterday it just makes me laugh at the haters that are going to the "Cheatriots" blasts and what not. This team, whether you like them or not, might be the BEST NFL team of the last 25-30 YEARS and may be the best since the origin of the Super Bowl itself.

I personally can't remember a team this good, that can just go out there and even though the opposing team knows EXACTLY how the Patriots are going to attack them they STILL can't stop them and look silly in attempting to do so. The TD pass to Vrabel is a perfect example. When Dude is in the huddle at the goal line there's usually a REALLY strong chance that he's gonna get the ball, and teams STILL can't stop it from happening even though they KNOW it's coming. The Skins were a TOP FIVE defense going into that game yesterday, and Tom Brady & Co. made them look worse than the Chiefs defenses of 2002-2005.

In all seriousness IMO IF the Pats can beat the Colts next Sunday I think they WILL run the table. There's really nobody else on their schedule the rest of the way that poses a legit threat to stop them.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:38 pm
by KC Scott
As a proud new owner of Brady in my FFL, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say he's going to smash almost every single season passing record in the book this year. :D

On the flip side, the Pats suck dick for running it up......




but I'm glad I can profit by it

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:42 pm
by RevLimiter
KC Scott wrote:As a proud new owner of Brady in my FFL
Props for throughly WORKING the iodot that gave him up in a trade.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 8:56 pm
by BSmack
RevLimiter wrote:
KC Scott wrote:As a proud new owner of Brady in my FFL
Props for throughly WORKING the iodot that gave him up in a trade.
Before you suck Scotty's protein reserves dry, why not ask what he had to give up for Brady?

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:00 pm
by ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2
Headhunter wrote:There's no shame in dropping a 45 spot on someones ass. I fully support trying to score on every set of downs. Work them like a step sister. But when you find yourselves airing the ball deep on 4th down way late in a game, you've crossed the line of being the superior team and letting everyone know it, to being poor sportsmen and trying to rub peoples nose in your superiority.

Dungy is largely regarding in the first category. I think you know where Cheat lands.


And like I said earlier, enjoy the upside. Just remember this conversation when it's time to pay the piper.
If you seriously think there’s some sort of love-fest for the Colts winning the Super Bowl last year, you need to get your head out of your ass. I am quite certain Bill Polian is the most despicable human being involved in the NFL and no one who truly knows the sport was rooting for Indy last year. Sure, your fair weather fans and idiots who aren’t familiar with this cunt’s outbursts climbed aboard the bandwagon. But those “in the know”, loathe him and his fucking franchise.

http://thebestsportsblog.com/?p=24
And as backup quarterback Doug Flutie rolled out with pressure on his heels, Polian muttered, “Break his leg.”

This is just one example of many. If you google “Bill Polian angry”, you will see a lot more evidence of what an absolute cunt this man is.

Are you also oblivious to the fact that Dungy and Manning were 0-7 against New England until this cunt decided he actually had to change the rules regarding pass interference in order to get over? You want to talk about disrespecting the game, treating people unfairly, and being a full-on asshole 24X7, look no further than the President of the “beloved” Super Bowl champions.
As far as the rest of your sniveling post goes, if and when the other shit teams (Dallas, SD, et al) in the NFL can actually run up the score on New England, bring it. You won’t find me complaining about sportsmanship. A loss is a loss. 45 pt spread or 1, it hurts just the same to me.

You want to blame a head coach for the lopsided score yesterday? Why aren’t you shitting your diaper over the Skins idiot head coach? Did you not see Joe Gibbs last week say “we don’t stand a chance against New England”? It was taken out of context, sure… but no matter. When your own head coach is dropping an L on you before you even take the fucking field, that’s gotta suck.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:02 pm
by KC Scott
BSmack wrote:
RevLimiter wrote:
KC Scott wrote:As a proud new owner of Brady in my FFL
Props for throughly WORKING the iodot that gave him up in a trade.
Before you suck Scotty's protein reserves dry, why not ask what he had to give up for Brady?
Eli & Marshawn Lynch

Now let paul have his nut_rients

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:09 pm
by BSmack
KC Scott wrote:
BSmack wrote:
RevLimiter wrote: Props for throughly WORKING the iodot that gave him up in a trade.
Before you suck Scotty's protein reserves dry, why not ask what he had to give up for Brady?
Eli & Marshawn Lynch

Now let paul have his nut_rients
That must have been one desperate motherfucker. Either that or he had Romo or Manning as well but no depth at RB.

More proof that fantasy football is the devil.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:26 pm
by KC Scott
BSmack wrote:
KC Scott wrote:
BSmack wrote: Before you suck Scotty's protein reserves dry, why not ask what he had to give up for Brady?
Eli & Marshawn Lynch

Now let paul have his nut_rients
That must have been one desperate motherfucker. Either that or he had Romo or Manning as well but no depth at RB.

More proof that fantasy football is the devil.
He had Maroney ('sup Wags?) as his # 1 RB and Julius Jones as his 2 - His back up QB is Rivers.
He was sitting at 2-5 and mine was the best (only?) offer he got.
With the scoring in our league - Eli & Lynch combined we only 10 pts. behind Brady (200 vs. 210) - Before yesterday :D:D so it was an even trade.


Thank god of course your not our commish, for I'm sure you'd have blocked it

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:32 pm
by RevLimiter
GREAT article by John Clayton on ESPN.com about the Patriots running roughshod over the Skins and everybody else: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/s ... OLL312=200
John Clayton wrote:Face it, folks, Belichick plans to lay waste to the NFL. Commissioner Roger Goodell took away a first-rounder, so the Patriots will take away your firstborn. Belichick has assembled perhaps the most dominating team in NFL history, and he's intent on destroying all opponents in his path.
YIKES.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:36 pm
by BSmack
KC Scott wrote:He had Maroney ('sup Wags?) as his # 1 RB and Julius Jones as his 2 - His back up QB is Rivers.
He was sitting at 2-5 and mine was the best (only?) offer he got.
With the scoring in our league - Eli & Lynch combined we only 10 pts. behind Brady (200 vs. 210) - Before yesterday :D:D so it was an even trade.

Thank god of course your not our commish, for I'm sure you'd have blocked it
Nah, I wouldn't have blocked it. It's not the best deal in the world, but it's an honest attempt on both sides to get better.

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 9:56 pm
by Neely8
mvscal wrote:
RevLimiter wrote: This team, whether you like them or not, might be the BEST NFL team of the last 25-30 YEARS and may be the best since the origin of the Super Bowl itself.
That's like saying the Harlem Globetrotters were the best professional basketball team of all time.

You remain a fat, stupid, dongslurping tard.

What's it like rooting for the Washington Generals?

Posted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 11:16 pm
by Th
Headhunter wrote: The most bizarre part of this, is that this actually needs to be explained


You can kiss the Patriots ass, but you cant beat it. Deal with it.

Sig,

Any New England fans who remember the '86 Superbowl.


Headhunter wrote:And like I said earlier, enjoy the upside. Just remember this conversation when it's time to pay the piper.


See above.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:48 am
by upstart
mvscal wrote:
RevLimiter wrote: This team, whether you like them or not, might be the BEST NFL team of the last 25-30 YEARS and may be the best since the origin of the Super Bowl itself.
That's like saying the Harlem Globetrotters were the best professional basketball team of all time.

You remain a fat, stupid, dongslurping tard.
Its been seven weeks and the ass is still sore ?

Private Pyle,its time to go on sick call and get the bunghole checked out,you may have recived a mortal wound from the ass wipping the Pats gave to
the Bolts week two....or it could be a slow Lingering Wound from that 14-2 team loss in last years playoffs.Do some group huggies with raider fan and
talk about "tuck rules" it will clear the mind before you see the Doc's.

Drive on Trooper !!

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:50 am
by ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2
mvscal wrote:Does it ever get old making weak excuses for lame, classless douchebaggery every week?

I don't understand how those fires spread through SoCal and threatened your team of pussies. With all of the tears you cunts shed on a daily basis, you'd figure any fire would have a tough time even igniting, nevermind spreading the way it did. Go fuck yourself...

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:01 am
by RevLimiter
Neely8 wrote:
mvscal wrote:
RevLimiter wrote: This team, whether you like them or not, might be the BEST NFL team of the last 25-30 YEARS and may be the best since the origin of the Super Bowl itself.
That's like saying the Harlem Globetrotters were the best professional basketball team of all time.

You remain a fat, stupid, dongslurping tard.

What's it like rooting for the Washington Generals?
$$$

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:05 am
by RevLimiter
mvscal wrote:
RevLimiter wrote: This team, whether you like them or not, might be the BEST NFL team of the last 25-30 YEARS and may be the best since the origin of the Super Bowl itself.
That's like saying the Harlem Globetrotters were the best professional basketball team of all time.

You remain a fat, stupid, dongslurping tard.
And you remain a bitter ignorant fucktard- apples and oranges when it comes to your Globetrotter take. Doesn't apply here, but nice reach anyway. :meds:

Feel free to cut back on the Haterade and get over the fact that that team BITCHSLAPPED yours like a red-headed stepchild. Frankly the cheating crap is tired and played.....all teams did the same shit, we all KNOW they did, so shut the fuck up about it already.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:22 am
by Th
mvscal wrote:Is that the new bullshit spin job du jour? This is vengence for their defeat in the 86 Superbowl?

Does it ever get old making weak excuses for lame, classless douchebaggery every week?

Defend it? I applaud what the Patriots are doing! BB & co are pissed about how the haters want to tarnish their legacy. What you see every week is the result. I love the way the Pats are showing how much better they are than the rest of the league. At this pace there won't be a record left standing at the end of the season. From the outside looking in I am sure it is hard to take. Don't like it? Find a team that can stop them. Good luck.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:55 am
by Qbert
IndyFrisco wrote:Each and every one of them were saying "I wish someone would kneecap that bastard" when talking about Brandy. Do you Cheats fans don't think there's a defensive player out there that is seeing this that can't wait to put him on the IR?

Like HH said, it will happen. And you will cry about it when it does. And hopefully the mods here will sew your pussy up by deleting any shit posts of anyone who is defending the Cheats after what is going down.
IN

...i do agree with the fact that the opposing Team NEEDS to actually STOP Them.

BUT, one of these opposing Teams is gonna Drop a CHEAP Shot--->and then, WE'RE gonna All GO BWAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAA!

and, i'll go "x", "x" and "x".......when/while you're searching for Kotex.

you'll get yours.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:25 pm
by Shine
ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote: Are you also oblivious to the fact that Dungy and Manning were 0-7 against New England until this cunt decided he actually had to change the rules regarding pass interference in order to get over?
Congratulations, in one single line you managed to prove how non-existent your knowledge of football is AND add further tarnish to the "legacy" of the Cheatriots.

The 5 yard contact rule was on the books starting in 1996. Since the tard always throws the "link?" rebuttal into the mix I'll provide two for you.

http://www.sportsattic.com/araig/NflRulesHistory.htm

http://www.jt-sw.com/football/pro/index ... ts/0-rules

The Cheatriots were breaking that rule to get over on the Colts and when the Colts brass had enough of losing because of cheating they took the NFL to task for the officials not properly calling the game. So what your dumb ass said was "changed the rules" was actually a a re-emphasis on calling an already existing rule.
When the National Football League decided last season to re-emphasize rules against bumping and grabbing receivers 5 yards beyond the line of scrimmage
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/02/28/sport ... 28nfl.html

Funny how sniveling Patriot cunt attempts to lambaste another organization for wanting the rules called correctly when doing just that helped them get over, tuck you very much.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:26 pm
by Headhunter
ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:
Headhunter wrote:There's no shame in dropping a 45 spot on someones ass. I fully support trying to score on every set of downs. Work them like a step sister. But when you find yourselves airing the ball deep on 4th down way late in a game, you've crossed the line of being the superior team and letting everyone know it, to being poor sportsmen and trying to rub peoples nose in your superiority.

Dungy is largely regarding in the first category. I think you know where Cheat lands.


And like I said earlier, enjoy the upside. Just remember this conversation when it's time to pay the piper.
If you seriously think there’s some sort of love-fest for the Colts winning the Super Bowl last year, you need to get your head out of your ass. I am quite certain Bill Polian is the most despicable human being involved in the NFL and no one who truly knows the sport was rooting for Indy last year. Sure, your fair weather fans and idiots who aren’t familiar with this cunt’s outbursts climbed aboard the bandwagon. But those “in the know”, loathe him and his fucking franchise.

http://thebestsportsblog.com/?p=24
And as backup quarterback Doug Flutie rolled out with pressure on his heels, Polian muttered, “Break his leg.”

This is just one example of many. If you google “Bill Polian angry”, you will see a lot more evidence of what an absolute cunt this man is.


I'm not bitting on that straw man's ankles. Last time I checked, the President/GM doesn't call the plays, nor direct the team to take a knee. Polian may be an asshole, but that's not germane to this discussion.
Are you also oblivious to the fact that Dungy and Manning were 0-7 against New England until this cunt decided he actually had to change the rules regarding pass interference in order to get over? You want to talk about disrespecting the game, treating people unfairly, and being a full-on asshole 24X7, look no further than the President of the “beloved” Super Bowl champions.
I don't root for carpet baggers who steal a team in the middle of the night. As long as the Irsay family draws breath they can eat a dick. After that, they can rot in Hell with Bud Adams.
As far as the rest of your sniveling post goes, if and when the other shit teams (Dallas, SD, et al) in the NFL can actually run up the score on New England, bring it. You won’t find me complaining about sportsmanship. A loss is a loss. 45 pt spread or 1, it hurts just the same to me.
I never said stop scoring. Knock yourself out. But don't act puzzled when others call your team a bunch of classless douchebags, and the assassins of the league start aiming at kneecaps.
You want to blame a head coach for the lopsided score yesterday? Why aren’t you shitting your diaper over the Skins idiot head coach? Did you not see Joe Gibbs last week say “we don’t stand a chance against New England”? It was taken out of context, sure… but no matter. When your own head coach is dropping an L on you before you even take the fucking field, that’s gotta suck.
Ha, this is the best line of your post.

I'm a Cowboys fan. you really think I wanted the Redshins to win, cover, or even come out alive? Joe Gibbs can gobble a knob. So can every other Redskin. Hell, the Patriots did the Cowboys a favor. It makes no fucking difference to me if the Patriots loose another regular season game. Go 16-0. Make the 72 dolphins crap their depends. Please. Shut those fucking A-holes up. Go 17-0. Really shut their holes. Hell try 18. At 19, I start giving a shit again, because that's when I hope they play the Cowboys again.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:02 pm
by ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2
HH, it sounds as if your pussy is still chafing over the last NE TD scored against Dallas. Need I remind you, Dallas called their last timeout after the two minute warning. Had they just conceded defeat, I am quite certain the Patriots would have taken a knee and ran out the clock. By Dallas calling time out, NE couldn’t take the clock down to 0:00. They scored with 23 seconds left. You want to extend the game… fine. Eat this. Bitch.

You want to see us in Arizona later in the season? Cool. It'll be nice to set a Super Bowl record for most pts scored against the same franchise that should hold the record save for an epic display dumbfuckery.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 2:53 pm
by Felix
Headhunter wrote:
But don't act puzzled when others call your team a bunch of classless douchebags, and the assassins of the league start aiming at kneecaps.
I've always found this mentality to be puzzling.......

take out a guys knees (and potentially ruin his career) because the opposing team scored when they apparently were expected to either kick a field goal (which in-turn would have pissed people off) or to simply take a knee.....

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:40 pm
by BSmack
mvscal wrote:Knees? I hope he breaks his fucking neck and spends the rest of his life in a fucking wheelchair. I would laugh my ass off.
It would go a long way towards solving overpopulation problems as well. Two birds, one stone.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:03 pm
by jiminphilly
I doubt you'll see anything happen to Brady and unless it's a legitimate hit, I'd hate to see him get busted knees on a tackle or hit. Now to see BB get completely obliterated by a sideline tackle after which he resemble Joe Pa - crutches etc.. now that's something that would be hillarious to see.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:25 pm
by Nacho
Neely8 wrote:The Patriots do things differently then most teams.
Like cheat and use questionable sportsmanship.
Neely8 wrote:They run in order to setup the pass.


Which is unlike how many other teams? Just about every team in the NFL does that you nitwit.
Neely8 wrote:They are prmarily a passing team.
Again which is unlike how many other teams? If anything there are only a handful of teams in the NFL that are primarily a running team these days. A running team would be doing things differently than most teams in this league.
Neely8 wrote:Do the stats show that they can run it when needed though? I believe they do.....
You can also believe in the tooth fairy, but it wouldn't indicate that you are right...

If you would lay off your myopia you might see things in a different light....

Not to say that the Pats aren't a good team. They are. They are just setting themselves up for a big fall.

Which is coming.....

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:27 pm
by Felix
jiminphilly wrote:I doubt you'll see anything happen to Brady and unless it's a legitimate hit, I'd hate to see him get busted knees on a tackle or hit.
no no no.....Brady and Moss must be incapacitated because the Patriots scored way too many points against the Redskins....

this heinous behavior cannot go unpunished..... :meds:

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:30 pm
by BBMarley
RevLimiter wrote: The Skins were a TOP FIVE defense going into that game yesterday, and Tom Brady & Co. made them look worse than the Chiefs defenses of 2002-2005.
.
To be fair to the Skins (and it kills me to say that) They were playing without Smoot and lost Rogers in the first quarter of the game. Trying playing that Offense with backup corners on any team and see what it does to you.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:55 pm
by BSmack
Felix wrote:
jiminphilly wrote:I doubt you'll see anything happen to Brady and unless it's a legitimate hit, I'd hate to see him get busted knees on a tackle or hit.
no no no.....Brady and Moss must be incapacitated because the Patriots scored way too many points against the Redskins....

this heinous behavior cannot go unpunished..... :meds:
Brett Favre should be kneecapped for not going to James Jones in overtime.

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:58 pm
by Felix
BSmack wrote:
Brett Favre should be kneecapped for not going to James Jones in overtime.
:lol:

you can probably envision my consternation when Favre hit him with that 79 yarder......

14 points on that single catch......

don't say I didn't do everything to try and gift it to you.... :oops:

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:01 pm
by BSmack
Felix wrote:don't say I didn't do everything to try and gift it to you.... :oops:
And if Kelly Fucking Holcomb doesn't go down, I would have taken that gift. And WTF is up with Steve Smith?

:evil:

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:01 pm
by Headhunter
ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:HH, it sounds as if your pussy is still chafing over the last NE TD scored against Dallas. Need I remind you, Dallas called their last timeout after the two minute warning. Had they just conceded defeat, I am quite certain the Patriots would have taken a knee and ran out the clock. By Dallas calling time out, NE couldn’t take the clock down to 0:00. They scored with 23 seconds left. You want to extend the game… fine. Eat this. Bitch.

You want to see us in Arizona later in the season? Cool. It'll be nice to set a Super Bowl record for most pts scored against the same franchise that should hold the record save for an epic display dumbfuckery.

Nah, not upset in the least. If the Dallas incident were isolated, I could certainly see your take. But it's not. And with each passing week, and more like displays, I think it becomes more evident that Cheat doesn't give two rats asses about traditional sportsmanship.

I think my comments about the situation are actually quite devoid of any personal grudge, and remain a pretty good representation of the facts.

I know you fellas are enjoying the ride, and it's a little hard to see the other side of the coin. My stance is that you will come to see the other side of the coin, and the majority of you won't like it one little bit. If you take it like a man, good for you. We['ll see when the time comes.


And bringing up Leon Lett was a low blow!

Posted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 5:06 pm
by Felix
BSmack wrote: And WTF is up with Steve Smith?

:evil:
there's two parts to that equation......

he has to have somebody that can throw it to him...

a running game that would prevent the opposition from covering him with four guys would help too.....