T1B

That's not the deal ND wanted, or at least, that the majority of ND's fanbase wanted. We were happy with the feast or famine approach.

Killian posted on this topic at the time of the last BCS agreement. Both he and I stated at the time that this was actually counter-productive to those who wanted ND in a conference. But this is what the BCS, not ND, wanted.

No. ND wanted a continuation of the old deal. The old deal gave ND $14-18 million when they made the BCS, nothing when they didn't.

The BCS wanted the current deal, which gives ND $4.5-6 million when they make the BCS, $1.3 million when they don't.

The new deal is lose-lose for everyone. ND needs to miss the BCS for about 10 years in a row to recoup what it loses from the previous deal with just one BCS appearance. OTOH, the new deal makes it less likely that ND will join a conference, since they get some of the protection now that a conference member gets in a subpar season. And in a season where they qualify for a bowl, but not a BCS bowl, they actually come out a little ahead of where they would be in a conference.

But at least ND is getting less money for BCS appearances now than the automatic conference champions get.

I don't think ND gets special treatment today. Nor do I think ND should be required to throw away 120 years of tradition to suit an entity that didn't exist 10 years ago, and might not exist 10 years from now. Particularly when just a little thinking outside the box solves the problem.

There's also the law of unintended consequences. If ND ever joins a conference, an era of college football will die.

But a little friendly advice. If you want ND in a conference, your best course of action would be to convince as many ND alumni as you can that joining a conference would be in ND's best interests. Our athletic director is a follower, not a leader. That, in a nutshell, is the only reason we're not in a conference right now -- because he got his dick whacked on the interwebs by ND alumni when he tried to put us in one (that, and the NCAA intervening slightly during the period of ACC negotiations). If he were convinced that the majority of ND alumni favored joining a conference, he'd have us in one so fast it'd make your head spin.

As for the conferences you mentioned, the Big East is the only reasonable option. ND shouldn't be forced into a non-BCS conference strictly on the basis of one season, no matter how miserable it's been.

Considering that the other independents are Army, Navy and Western Kentucky, I'd say that ND's peer group in college football consists of the schools in the BCS conferences.

The NBC contract is unique, but then again, it's not like any other school in 1-A is not at liberty to negotiate such a deal, if that's what they really want. Whether they get it is a different matter, though.

As many of the OU posters have pointed out, NBC originally wanted Oklahoma, but that deal fell through because NBC wanted an independent. For whatever reason, Oklahoma decided that going independent wasn't in its best interests. But I have a tough time believing that Oklahoma's decision in that regard was based on the impact it would have on Iowa State's or Kansas' football program.

As for the BCS rules, the Top 8 rule is something of a tradeoff for the fact that ND can't win a conference championship. And it's really a non-factor if one were to make BCS selection a meritocracy (which most in here say they favor.) If ND is in the Top 8, from a meritocratic standpoint they belong in the BCS. Hell, from a meritocratic standpoint, they belong in the BCS if they're Top 10.

The one BCS rule that actually works to ND's advantage (here's the law of unintended consequences again) is the holdover rule prohibiting any conference from getting more than one at-large BCS bid. Last year, that rule eliminated Wisconsin, Auburn and Arkansas from BCS consideration, and left ND and West Virginia remaining for the last BCS bid. Of course, that rule had very little impact on ND back when the BCS had only two at-large bids, but it's huge in ND's favor now.

If all the marquee schools from the major conferences stopped playing Notre Dame until Notre Dame joined a conference, do ou think NBC would keep the Irish on the network if all they had to air every year was Airforce, Western Kentucky and Navy games?

The BCS wont be around forever but the Bowl system has and will. there will never be a playoff in Division 1 football because it would shift all the money away from the schools and conferences to the NCAA like the basketball playoffs.

The tradition of all major college football is the bowl games, which are becoming more and more tied to conferences, if Notre Dame doesnt want to change with all the other schools maybe they can go play the Ivy league schools in the lower division and keep to their tradition.

Maybe thats what the old time ND fans want, besides tight butted alter boys

SoCalTrjn wrote:If all the marquee schools from the major conferences stopped playing Notre Dame until Notre Dame joined a conference, . . .

Yeah, like that will ever happen. Tell you what, why don't you schedule a meeting with Mike Garrett and make this suggestion, right after you suggest that USC drop its basketball program. Then come back to the board and tell us his reaction.

The BCS wont be around forever but the Bowl system has and will. there will never be a playoff in Division 1 football because it would shift all the money away from the schools and conferences to the NCAA like the basketball playoffs.

The tradition of all major college football is the bowl games, which are becoming more and more tied to conferences,

Maybe, but that's all the more argument for ND to remain independent. There will always be some pressure on the bowls to maintain some semblance of a playoff, even if it's only the rudimentary sort that exists in the BCS now.

Any system which purports to crown a national champion and which systematically excludes Notre Dame by virtue of its independent status would never be accepted by college football's fanbase. And while this may come as a surprise to some, as long as ND has an opportunity to play for the national championship when it has earned that right, the overwhelming majority of ND's fanbase doesn't really give a rat's ass about bowl game opportunities otherwise.

88, I love it.....

If all the marquee schools from the major conferences stopped playing Notre Dame until Notre Dame joined a conference, do ou think NBC would keep the Irish on the network if all they had to air every year was Airforce, Western Kentucky and Navy games?

Ok, you go tell the $C football team that they're not playing ND anymore. Go tell the alumni, the players etc...that they're not going to play ND anymore. I'm sure that will go over well.

The BCS wont be around forever but the Bowl system has and will. there will never be a playoff in Division 1 football because it would shift all the money away from the schools and conferences to the NCAA like the basketball playoffs.

Yeah, like the schools that participate in the NCAA tournament don't get any money. Well maybe $C doesn't because they never make the fucking tournament. Keep scheduling strong teams like Mercer. Did they name that place after Bobby Murcer? A real reputable basketball power and you spermreceptacles lost to them.....BBBBWWWWAAAAA

The tradition of all major college football is the bowl games, which are becoming more and more tied to conferences, if Notre Dame doesnt want to change with all the other schools maybe they can go play the Ivy league schools in the lower division and keep to their tradition.

Change how? The only thing that would change is them joining a conference and they make too GD much money to do that. You only have a problem with it because Chetey Petey can't get in on the action and buy more houses, cars, gold, song girls etc......

Maybe thats what the old time ND fans want, besides tight butted alter boys

Oh that's funny, I almost spit holy water on my computer screen. An alter boy joke.....Oh Jesus Christ Schmuch you should really consider a career in comedy. Quit delivering for Dominoes and start the night circut because "YOU'RE KILLING ME LARRY."

a, 144 cases of child molesting within the San Diego Diocese alone.

Nazis weren't as bad as the Catholics, the Nazis were only around for 12 years and catch all kinds of shit but in comparison, the Catholic Church has a much more prestigous track record of tyranny, murder, racism, land grabbing, anti sememtism and dont forget the kid fucking and the Catholics are still going as strong as ever, that new Pope who used to be a Nazi finally stepped up to the big time, now he can get some shit done.

and the domers are 1-9

Okay I know it's a cliche that people say but it finally, actually happened to me just now.

I saw the "Jesus H. Me" pop up on the screen and next thing I know, water is spewing out of my mouth onto the screen.

Tears Jerry, tears. RACK IT.

As for this line:

Any system which purports to crown a national champion and which systematically excludes Notre Dame by virtue of its independent status would never be accepted by college football's fanbase.

Not so sure about that. Take the octogenarian set out of the mix and I'm inclined to say the new era CFB fan could give two shits about ND or what happens to them. If ND is getting the shaft because of their independent status I think the vast majority of fans would shrug their shoulders and move on.

I don't have a problem in ND being an indie, it is part of college-ball tradition. But being an indie they can't afford to go down-hill. The special status that gets ND their own tv-deal and into better bowls than they probably belong can disappear and leave them up shit-creek. Big buy-out or not Weis's seat is hot, if he wasn't recruiting incredibly he might get fired after this atrocious season. As-is he'll get one more and he has to do something next year. Trouble is, ND is so bad now what is reasonable to expect in 08? I'd say they have to start looking like a team with it's shit together and make a bowl.

88 wrote:

SoCalTrjn wrote:a, 144 cases of child molesting within the San Diego Diocese alone.

Nazis weren't as bad as the Catholics, the Nazis were only around for 12 years and catch all kinds of shit but in comparison, the Catholic Church has a much more prestigous track record of tyranny, murder, racism, land grabbing, anti sememtism and dont forget the kid fucking and the Catholics are still going as strong as ever, that new Pope who used to be a Nazi finally stepped up to the big time, now he can get some shit done.

and the domers are 1-9

That's a little harsh, don't you think? I'm not Catholic (in fact, I am an athiest), but I think the Catholic Church has done a lot of good in its thousand plus years of existence. It has taught billions of people to read and write. It has fed billions (and continues to do so). It has been out front in the fight against torture and cruel punishment. And where would we be without those cute little schoolgirl outfits?

Catholics have done plenty of their own torture and punishment, killed off generations of scientists who had theories and hypothesis that contradicted what the Catholics were trying to make everyone believe. Harsh or not, it is true

Jsc810 wrote:2008 Notre Dame Football Schedule
Sept. 6 SAN DIEGO STATE
Sept. 13 MICHIGAN
Sept. 20 at Michigan State
Sept. 27 PURDUE
Oct. 4 STANFORD
Oct. 11 at North Carolina
Oct. 18 Open Date
Oct. 25 at Washington
Nov. 1 PITTSBURGH
Nov. 8 at Boston College
Nov. 15 at Navy (Baltimore)
Nov. 22 SYRACUSE
Nov. 29 at USC

Will ND win 6 of those games?

Is this season a temporary bump in the road, or a harbinger of things to come for ND? Seems to me that most in here are leaning toward the latter, but I don't think any of us really know enough right now to answer that question. That will go a long wa toward answering your question.

Having said that, I expect next year's team to be improved significantly. And looking at next year's schedule from a worst-case perspective, these are the games that jump out at me as being quite winnable:

Sept. 6 SAN DIEGO STATE Typically a second-division team in a non-BCS conference, no excuse for not winning this game.
Oct. 4 STANFORD They used to give us a tough time in the 90's, but have regressed since then.
Oct. 11 at North Carolina This is football, not basketball. Davis will improve this program eventually, but they have a long way to go.
Oct. 25 at Washington If Weis can't beat the guy ND fired before him, his days are numbered.
Nov. 1 PITTSBURGH Porn stache is one of the few college coaches in even hotter water than Weis right now.
Nov. 15 at Navy (Baltimore) We can't lose to Navy two years in a row at this juncture, can we?
Nov. 22 SYRACUSE Possibly the worst BCS team in the country. Robinson is in much worse shape than Weis (although he might be gone before this game is played). I would've loved to have Syracuse on the schedule this year.

That's seven winnable games, even under the worst of realistic circumstances.

Knock the anti-catholic shit off. Keep it to CFB. Dr. Detwat was booted for not shutting up about racial shit in this forum, so this is your one warning

ND Fan is like SEC Fan, only without all of that pesky winning.

Schmuck has no other game but to rag on the Catholics.

Now, I wonder what we should do with all the Catholics on $C's team and all the priests who are $C fans.......or for that matter went to $C.

ban those who say truths that contradict your belief system. par for the course


Notre Dame is 1-9, the rest is just gravy

Dinsdale wrote:ND Fan is like SEC Fan, only without all of that pesky winning.

funny thing about the SEC, seems their cowardly OOC scheduling is inherited. Ya see the forefathers of SEC chancelers lead this little Secession Rebellion 140 odd years ago and when they lead their rag tag bunch of slave owners up to Maryland and Pensylvania, they got fucked in the mouth by soldiers protecting their home turf and the right to freedom for all. To this day the gray coaters have feared battles on Union ground.

The articlel says it all.....Weis is NOT developing the talent because he never had to....it's not part of his coaching.....change that....it wasn't part of...change that....a MAJOR part of his coaching duties in the NFL. I think that's more a position coach's job and even then its more of a fine tuning then actual development.

That's why this team is so bad.....its young and under-developed. I see no reason to think that will change in '08. Yes, I am prognosticating another bad year for ND. I'm looking at maybe hovering at the .500 mark.

Sorry ND fans. Doesn't look promising at all. Charlie looks very uncomfortable in these interviews.

ban those who say truths that contradict your belief system. par for the course

It's a football message board, not a place to air your problems with the catholic church. Go down to the Taj Mahoney and bitch at the Cardinal if you're so inclined.

1-9 says what?

Killian wrote:Knock the anti-catholic shit off. Keep it to CFB. Dr. Detwat was booted for not shutting up about racial shit in this forum, so this is your one warning

I would like to 2nd this. (or 3rd it or 4th it...whatever.)

Let's stick to CFB.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

Jsc810 wrote:2008 Notre Dame Football Schedule
Sept. 6 SAN DIEGO STATE
Sept. 13 MICHIGAN
Sept. 20 at Michigan State
Sept. 27 PURDUE
Oct. 4 STANFORD
Oct. 11 at North Carolina
Oct. 18 Open Date
Oct. 25 at Washington
Nov. 1 PITTSBURGH
Nov. 8 at Boston College
Nov. 15 at Navy (Baltimore)
Nov. 22 SYRACUSE
Nov. 29 at USC

Will ND win 6 of those games?

Is this season a temporary bump in the road, or a harbinger of things to come for ND? Seems to me that most in here are leaning toward the latter, but I don't think any of us really know enough right now to answer that question. That will go a long wa toward answering your question.

Having said that, I expect next year's team to be improved significantly. And looking at next year's schedule from a worst-case perspective, these are the games that jump out at me as being quite winnable:

Sept. 6 SAN DIEGO STATE Typically a second-division team in a non-BCS conference, no excuse for not winning this game.
Oct. 4 STANFORD They used to give us a tough time in the 90's, but have regressed since then.
Oct. 11 at North Carolina This is football, not basketball. Davis will improve this program eventually, but they have a long way to go.
Oct. 25 at Washington If Weis can't beat the guy ND fired before him, his days are numbered.
Nov. 1 PITTSBURGH Porn stache is one of the few college coaches in even hotter water than Weis right now.
Nov. 15 at Navy (Baltimore) We can't lose to Navy two years in a row at this juncture, can we?
Nov. 22 SYRACUSE Possibly the worst BCS team in the country. Robinson is in much worse shape than Weis (although he might be gone before this game is played). I would've loved to have Syracuse on the schedule this year.

That's seven winnable games, even under the worst of realistic circumstances.

What? No five game homestands next year?? Having asked that, 4 out of the first 5 at home does come pretty close.

Jsc810 wrote:2008 Notre Dame Football Schedule
Sept. 6 SAN DIEGO STATE
Sept. 13 MICHIGAN
Sept. 20 at Michigan State
Sept. 27 PURDUE
Oct. 4 STANFORD
Oct. 11 at North Carolina
Oct. 18 Open Date
Oct. 25 at Washington
Nov. 1 PITTSBURGH
Nov. 8 at Boston College
Nov. 15 at Navy (Baltimore)
Nov. 22 SYRACUSE
Nov. 29 at USC

Will ND win 6 of those games?

I'd say this is one of the easier sched I've ever seen ND play, and they'll need it.

SDSU-no excuse for this not being a W
Michigan-loss
Michigan State-hard to say, gotta say MSU at home
Purdue-perennially soft team is beatable at ND, but Purdue should still have a tough O
Stanford-Harbaugh has Stanford battling, I'll give ND the edge at home
NC-two young but talented teams, Davis gets ND at home, could be tough
At Washington, this is a must win assuming Ty still has a job, Locker will present problems
Pitt-Wannstadt sucks, this is winnable
BC-loss
Navy-Johnson could be gone, if so Navy significantly more beatable
Syracuse sucks-could no coach get early turnaround
USC-loss

I don't see ND likely doing better than .500.

JSC810 wrote:Terry, if memory serves me right, just a few months ago you were predicting something other than a 1-9 season for ND. In any event, what will happen if ND does not win 7 games next year?

Not even the most ardent ND hater predicted 1-9. JON came the closest on this board, but even he saw us winning our last 4 games.

As for Weis, I'll go out on a limb and say he'll need 8-9 wins in '08 to return for '09.

Danimal wrote:

Jsc810 wrote:2008 Notre Dame Football Schedule
Sept. 6 SAN DIEGO STATE
Sept. 13 MICHIGAN
Sept. 20 at Michigan State
Sept. 27 PURDUE
Oct. 4 STANFORD
Oct. 11 at North Carolina
Oct. 18 Open Date
Oct. 25 at Washington
Nov. 1 PITTSBURGH
Nov. 8 at Boston College
Nov. 15 at Navy (Baltimore)
Nov. 22 SYRACUSE
Nov. 29 at USC

Will ND win 6 of those games?

I'd say this is one of the easier sched I've ever seen ND play, and they'll need it.

SDSU-no excuse for this not being a W
Michigan-loss
Michigan State-hard to say, gotta say MSU at home
Purdue-perennially soft team is beatable at ND, but Purdue should still have a tough O
Stanford-Harbaugh has Stanford battling, I'll give ND the edge at home
NC-two young but talented teams, Davis gets ND at home, could be tough
At Washington, this is a must win assuming Ty still has a job, Locker will present problems
Pitt-Wannstadt sucks, this is winnable
BC-loss
Navy-Johnson could be gone, if so Navy significantly more beatable
Syracuse sucks-could no coach get early turnaround
USC-loss

I don't see ND likely doing better than .500.

Coupla points.

1. Doing a quick count of the way you've broken it down, it would seem that you have us slightly better than .500.

2. Michigan State -- one of the most unusual quirks in any regular season college football rivalry, but the home team hasn't won in this series since 2000.

1-9 says what?

I says that ND has one win and 9 losses. Duh.................