T1B

TheJON wrote: 1997, 1998, 2001, and 2005 all would have been Iowa wins if not for a late collapse.

that and scoring less than your opponent

TheJON wrote:M Club,

When you say beatdown you mean beat us by a TD or less like usual, right? We play you guys tough. I know the all-time series is bad, but over the last 25 years or so we've given you everything you could handle. We just usually melt down in the 4th quarter. 1997, 1998, 2001, and 2005 all would have been Iowa wins if not for a late collapse. I know Michigan usually wins, but Michigan hasn't laid a beatdown on Iowa since I believe 1994. That's the last time I remember. Even last year was close up to the end.

what i mean is that osu has been beating down michigan pretty well these past few years, but if i want to look for consolation in the final scores i can.

2001: osu 26 mich 20
2002: osu 14 mich 9
2004: osu 37 mich 21
2005: osu 25 mich 21
2006: osu 42 mich 39
2007: osu 14 mich 3

only one of those games was reasonably out of hand, so i'm going to abandon my avatar.

TheJON wrote:Just because I think Ferentz is a better coach than Les Miles doesn't mean I have a hard-on for the guy. There are a million better coaches out there than Miles. I suppose I have a hard-on for all of them, right??

M Club,

When you say beatdown you mean beat us by a TD or less like usual, right? We play you guys tough. I know the all-time series is bad, but over the last 25 years or so we've given you everything you could handle. We just usually melt down in the 4th quarter. 1997, 1998, 2001, and 2005 all would have been Iowa wins if not for a late collapse. I know Michigan usually wins, but Michigan hasn't laid a beatdown on Iowa since I believe 1994. That's the last time I remember. Even last year was close up to the end.

Can you please show me how Ferentz is a better coach than Les Miles other than your opinion?

I have already laid out how BAD Ferentz is as a coach and none of the Iowa fans, inluding Mace has responded to it.

Since when is Lloyd Carr stupid? I'd say the seventh best winning percentage among active coaches is pretty fucking strong. Lloyd was not fired, he retired. You can keep Ferentz, we'll take Miles and move forward. One conference title every five years won't cut it in AA. Nobody on this years roster will win a conference ring, book it. With Illinois coming on, UM, OSU, Wisky, and even PSU, where does Iowa fit in? You may say that willing to win every five years is realistic, I say it's complacent. If that's the best that program can be, then what competitive man would stay there. Don't winners want to win, don't great coaches want challenges. If the greatest challenge is winning the Big10 title every 5 years or so (which won't be the average very soon), isn't he hiding from greater challenges? Kirk seems to be in somewhat of a comfort zone in Iowa. He's making great jack, expectations are low, and his demand stays high, therefore insuring that he makes great jack. Keep pumping out 6-8 wins per year with the occasional 9 or 10 win season when everything alligns (solid senior class, favorable schedule, team health etc). Where's the challenge in that?

So you agree with me? Great.

Now what about the part where Ferentz avoids challenges, or is trying to compete at Iowa challenge enough? Great coaches seek to win at the highest level. I can see where he would prefer CFB to the NFL. I'll never fault him for not taking a pro gig. But if he's always mentioned for every bigtime job (which you admit Iowa is not) and he chooses to stay where the expectations are mediocre, where is his drive to succeed? Where's his passion and competitive spirit? Why doesn't he want to go somewhere where he can get the best talent and expect to compete with the elite?

Then again 3 mil. to struggle to get bowl eligible is great money if you can get it.

Mace wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:

Mace wrote:Iowa's program is about dead even with Wisconsin at this point in time, IMO

Huh? You guys are going to 4th consecutive January bowl game this year? Is theJON writing your material?

Been there, done that, Goober. Orange, Outback, Capital One, and Outback from '02 through '05. Like I said, we're about dead even.....but had to wait a year for your Badgers to catch up. And, no, JON did not write my material.....except the part about the 85 first rounders.

Mace

Edit: Just a couple of other points to support my "dead even" claim, Goober. Alvarez was 60-42-4 during his first nine years at Wisconsin (Fry and Ferentz both won 61 during their first nine seasons) and built a very good program....much the same as Iowa's. He won a Big Ten title in his fourth season...same as Ferentz, and one year longer than it took Fry.....and a total of three titles, the same as Fry and one more than Ferentz (2 in his first six seasons). He also suffered a few mediocre seasons during his final seven seasons....5-7, 8-6, and 7-6....and was 5-9 lifetime versus Iowa.

Mace

You might have been dead even from ’02 to ’05, but not right now. Not by a long shot.

2005 is only 2 years ago. You've had a much better run the last couple of years, but you're not a better program. It goes in cycles with programs like Iowa and Wisconsin. We're both solid programs that have built some decent tradition over the last couple of decades. 2 years from now we might be the team going to New Years Day bowls and you might be the team going to Jerkmeoff.com bowls. And then 2 years after that, we'll probably trade spots. I'm not really sure how either Iowa fan or Wisconsin fan could be arguing who is better. Seriously, if anyone on either side can't see the similarities and agree that we're just about even they're retarded.

Steve,

Winning at Iowa is a much greater challenge than winning at Michigan, so to say that Kirk is staying here because he doesn't want a challenge is just dumb. The great coaches don't necessarily want to go to the top programs. Look at his salary, he's fucking get paid like a god damn Hall of Fame coach at Iowa. He runs the athletic department, he's lived in Iowa City for 20 years of his life, his kids all went to Iowa City High School and his youngest is about to be a freshman there. He's really built this program into a damn fine football program. Yes, there have been setbacks the last couple years but that's the way it goes. Rome wasn't built overnight. I believe Kirk really believes he can get Iowa to that next level and I think he's got the patience to do it.

You can have Les Miles, it will be your problem. Shit, the fact that he hasn't played for a national title either last year or this year is pathetic. Urban Meyer does it with LESS talent (or should I say LES talent) in his 2nd year. Miles has been there for 3 years and unless he wins tomorrow he won't even have a god damn conference title with an NFL roster. Ferentz had a 3 year run at Iowa that was every bit as impressive as what Miles has done in his 3 years at LSU. And he fucking did that at Iowa. 2 conference titles, 3 Top 10 finishes, 31 wins, a BCS Bowl appearance, and 3 New Years Day Bowl bids. And how did he do that? WITH HIS OWN PLAYERS. Miles is doing it with Nick Saban's players and even though the record is impressive, he's underachieved. Ferentz took a group of 2 and 3-star recruits (even some walk-ons) and turned them into All-Americans, All-Conference players, and future NFL draft picks. Now, what the fuck do you think he'd do at a school like Michigan where he gets his pick of 4-star and even some 5-star recruits?

Take a look at the guys he's developed......

Dallas Clark was a walk-on turned into a future pro bowl TE. Aaron Kampman is now one of the best DE's in the NFL and he was a 3-star LB recruit. Bob Sanders is now one of the best safeties in the NFL and he was a 2-star RB recruit. Ladell Betts is a fine backup RB and he wasn't very highly recruited. Chad Greenway was a 2-star LB recruit that turned into a 1st round pick and is having a fine 1st year with the Vikings. Sean Considine barely got recruited by anyone and now he starts for the Eagles at safety. Robert Gallery was the #2 pick and he was a 1-star TE recruit that only got a roster spot because everyone with the last name of Gallery plays at Iowa. Eric Steinbach was a 2-star DE recruit and now he's got the highest contract an offensive guard has ever received in the NFL. And many other not-so-highly recruited players under Ferentz are playing in the NFL right now.

But you wouldn't want him as coach and you'd rather have Les Miles?? You gotta be kidding me. Give me Dwayne Bowe, Early Doucet, LaRon Landry, Glen Dorsey, etc and I guarantee you I'd at least have my team playing for a national title. Everyone looks like a good coach when they win 10-11 games every year but the best coaches are the ones that get the most out of what they've got. Les Miles does not, and for the most part Kirk Ferentz has.

Don't look now, but Ferentz might be back atop the list of candidates.

I could live with him being the coach at this juncture, but I would still like to see Martin interview a number of guys before making an offer.

This is from Marc Moorhouse, a writer for an Iowa paper.....

Two sources . . .
Have now told me that Kirk Ferentz is at the top of Michigan's list of coaching candidates.
Members of Michigan's search committee leaked today that Ferentz has been made priority No. 1. Lloyd Carr, who's retiring after 13 seasons at Michigan, is pushing for Ferentz, a source said. He has a say in this. Mary Sue Coleman, UM's president and the UI president when Ferentz was hired at Iowa, has a say in this. That's according to logic, by the way.

UM athletics director Bill Martin said in a statement Sunday, a day after LSU staved off Michigan and held on to Les Miles, "As for Michigan, we are continuing with the process we established and will continue to talk with and research our list of candidates."

Carr said during a Capital One Bowl teleconference that the process would wrap up "quickly," meaning by the end of December.

Now, remember, this is coming from Michigan's end. This is what Michigan people are saying. This is a Michigan story, and if it breaks, it will likely break out of Michigan.

Ferentz didn't talk at Saturday night's basketball game. The end-of-season press conference, that Ferentz said would happen in November, has been scuttled for this week and probably next.

When this exploded the first time around, Angelique Chengelis of the Detroit News wrote that Ferentz was "approached by a third party representing Michigan to gauge his interest, and he let them know early this week his interest is at Iowa."

What could change in a week? Desperation, on Michigan's part. And money. If UM and Martin learned anything coming out of the LSU/Miles snafu it's that the price of college coaching has gone up. Lloyd Carr made $1.7 million. Ferentz makes $2.84 million at Iowa, and that's guaranteed through 2012 (that's $14.2 million over the next five years). Michigan knows it's going to take between $3.5 and $4 million to get in the ballpark, with a lot of coaches, not just Ferentz.

Remember, this is what Michigan wants. What Ferentz wants might be another story. We don't know that, though. Ferentz has talked with Fox Radio on Friday mornings during the season. Don't know if that's on the schedule this Friday, but I'm tuning in. Might as well. That might be as close as we get to that season-ending press conference.

Schiano vs. Ferentz for the PSU job? That'll be a fun one to watch.

I get where your coming from Mace, but do you not agree that coaches who have ultimate drive and ambition strive to be where they can compete at the highest level year in and out? You said Iowa cannot compete yearly, therefore maybe his coaching excellence has gone as far as it can at Iowa. Personally I don't see it. The money he gets paid to be average to good is amazing. Why leave for probably equal pay to go where scrutiny and expectations are at their highest? Makes more sense for him to stay put.

IMO the only thing separating a guy like Miles from Kelly, Grobe, Peterson, etc is better opportunity but he is still a good coach that Mich could win with. He'd put a first-rate staff together and win his share of the showdowns with Ohio State.

WolverineSteve wrote:Schiano vs. Ferentz for the PSU job? That'll be a fun one to watch.

I get where your coming from Mace, but do you not agree that coaches who have ultimate drive and ambition strive to be where they can compete at the highest level year in and out? You said Iowa cannot compete yearly, therefore maybe his coaching excellence has gone as far as it can at Iowa. Personally I don't see it. The money he gets paid to be average to good is amazing. Why leave for probably equal pay to go where scrutiny and expectations are at their highest? Makes more sense for him to stay put.

mace and jon said iowa can't win year in and year out. i'm sure ferentz sees the challenge differently.