so much for that place being a gun free zone.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:05 pm

Oh, reallllly?

So, you dispute that vest makers include literature with the vests warning the user of the perils of taking a large-caliber handgun?

Really?

Please say "yes."

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:09 pm

Who said anything about bullets 'bouncing off' vests? The point is, if the whack in question is wearing one, he will go down, but not necessarly out.

As opposed to one between the eyes.

Stick to spellchecking, bitch. Reading comprehension and logic are still beyond you.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:14 pm

smackaholic wrote:small caliber is fine, so long as the round is reasonably long and got enough grains behin dit spinning it down a coupla feet of rifle barrel. A 30-06 is a fairly small caliber but it goes through vest quicker than mvscal through 100 posts.

30-06 is considered "small caliber"? I hear you can take down an elephant with one of those if you know what you're doing.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:20 pm

mvscal wrote: A Dragonov from 75 meters has far more penetrating power than any handgun and homeskillet here just popped right back up with nothing more than a raspberry for his trouble.

Sure. There's this thing called "luck."

But get real.

For one -- the vests cops wear, which is likely what you're going to find a perp wearing, is different from that of the military(tell me you knew?). The added plates add quite a bit of weight, too(which is well worth the sacrifice in a combat zone).

And if my memory is working right(unlikely), isn't a Dragunov a 7.62X54, similar to a NATO round? If so, it falls just under the threshold of what the highest-rated vests can stop(or what they're rated to stop). Of course, kick your 30-06 deer rifle up to a 180gr FMJ, and you've taken Level 4 armor out of the equation.

But again, those laws of physics thingies tell us that the kinetic energy doesn't just magically disappear. Which is why there's so many tales of people getting offed by 44Mag while wearing a vest.... much less rifle rounds.

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Tue Dec 11, 2007 9:37 pm

mvscal wrote:

Is AP sending you pictures now too?

That bruise looks kinda like a reindeer hoof

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:52 am

Another shooting today - this one in Vegas as someone(s) plinked 6 HS kids getting off the bus. Add this to the Denver churches and the Omaha mall and you have the makings of a real rough holiday season. My best friend is a Capt out here in the burbs, and he said assaults are trending higher this year than normal.

Don't know how this conversation got so off track ('sup Bri?) on the body armour bullshit. The only case I ever heard of of any shooters wearing armour was that LA bank robbery. Same for my buddy. It's just something stupid that gets the argument for concealed carry off track.

I carry a S&W M945 in my truck - but not on me.
It might be time to get the CHL - One individual could have made a difference in the Omaha mall

BTW - the dude in Denver shot himself.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:04 am

KC Scott wrote: BTW - the dude in Denver shot himself.

He did?

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:07 am

KC Scott wrote:Another shooting today - this one in Vegas as someone(s) plinked 6 HS kids getting off the bus. Add this to the Denver churches and the Omaha mall and you have the makings of a real rough holiday season. My best friend is a Capt out here in the burbs, and he said assaults are trending higher this year than normal.

Don't know how this conversation got so off track ('sup Bri?) on the body armour bullshit. The only case I ever heard of of any shooters wearing armour was that LA bank robbery. Same for my buddy. It's just something stupid that gets the argument for concealed carry off track.

Just off the top of my head...

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/03/22/school.shooting/

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:25 am

Show me where in that story the shooter was:

1. Wearing the vest
2. The vest, if he was wearing it, stopped any shots by authorities

It's not there beacuse it didn't occur.

The LA shooting remains the only known incident of shooters wearing armour that were not taken down

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:43 am

Martyred wrote:
KC Scott wrote: BTW - the dude in Denver shot himself.
He did?

yep

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/story?id=3982722&page=1

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:12 am

KC Scott wrote:Show me where in that story the shooter was:

1. Wearing the vest
2. The vest, if he was wearing it, stopped any shots by authorities

It's not there beacuse it didn't occur.

The LA shooting remains the only known incident of shooters wearing armour that were not taken down

http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/ ... 50322.html

Cuda · Post by **Cuda** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 3:18 am

KC Scott wrote:
BTW - the dude in Denver shot himself.

Colorado Springs, actually, but yeah, after the Church Lady drilled him multiple times, he apparently fellated his AK & swallowed

Does nothing to change the fact that an armed, private citizen stopped the attack.

Also highlights the fact that you need to bring a big enouh gun to the gunfight. It had better start with a 4 and end with either a 4 or a 5.

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:30 am

Diogenes wrote:
KC Scott wrote:Show me where in that story the shooter was:

2. The vest, if he was wearing it, stopped any shots by authorities

It's not there beacuse it didn't occur.

The LA shooting remains the only known incident of shooters wearing armour that were not taken down
http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/ ... 50322.html

When four police officers pursued him through the building, he shot at them and at least one officer returned fire.

Tabman said it's not yet known whether they managed to hit the teen, who returned to the room filled with his victims' bodies and killed himself.

Try again - Google is open all night

LTS TRN 2 · Post by **LTS TRN 2** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:09 am

BSmack wrote: Well, not really. It shows that he had some good common sense

It shows pretty clearly that he knew full well that the fascist prep academy he was running was due to feature some blowback. Remember, this is the home of Pastor Meth.

("I'm coming, just like Jesus...with a dick in my ass!!")

What aren't you putting together?

WW

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 1:15 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:
smackaholic wrote:small caliber is fine, so long as the round is reasonably long and got enough grains behin dit spinning it down a coupla feet of rifle barrel. A 30-06 is a fairly small caliber but it goes through vest quicker than mvscal through 100 posts.
30-06 is considered "small caliber"? I hear you can take down an elephant with one of those if you know what you're doing.

Why yes, I do believe that 30 caliber is considered fairly small. It's halfway between a 22 which is about as small as they come and a 38, which is not really considered large caliber either.

Can a 30-06 take down an elephant? I'm sure it can, if you hit'em in the eye socket or some other weak spot in the skull. A fukkin' 22 would probably work too, but, you won't find me elephant hunting with either.

As to what is the threshhold for small, medium or large, beats the hell ought of me, but, I am sure mvscal or googlesdale will be in shortly to give an answer.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:21 pm

smackaholic wrote: As to what is the threshhold for small, medium or large, beats the hell ought of me, but, I am sure mvscal or googlesdale will be in shortly to give an answer.

Since you asked...

If you shoot a guy and he gets up and returns fire, it's a "small caliber."

If you shoot a guy, and he's really slow getting up, but gets a couple of rounds off and eventually passes out from bleeding -- it's "medium caliber."

If you shoot someone, and the coroner's department immediately reaches for the phone and calls a dentist while scrounging around the ground for a couple of teeth... it's "large caliber." Or if he's wearing a vest and his entire chest cavity turns purple because his liver exploded... probably "large caliber"(unless it was a glancing blow, such as mvscal's video, then he might just have a nasty bruise).

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:38 pm

DESCRIPTION AND SPECIFICATIONSThe Small Caliber Ammunition program consists of the following cartridges: 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm, 10-Gauge, 12-Gauge, .22 caliber, .30 caliber, and .50 caliber.Small Caliber Ammunition supports the following soldier weapons: M9 pistol, M16A1/A2 rifle, M4 carbine, M249 squad automatic weapon, M240 machine gun, .50-caliber M2 machine gun, sniper rifles, and a variety of shotguns.

http://www.wilpf.int.ch/disarmament/CCW ... aliber.pdf

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:42 pm

mvscal wrote:"Glancing blow"? He shot square in the heart, you fucking dipshit.

Link?

Oh... I get it... you're LYING to try and make a point.

If the shot in that video comes from the same angle as the video was taken, then it glanced off at approximately a 45 degree angle, give or take a bunch.

I won't even get into the physics there, since you're already struggling mightily with it.

But there's too many ft/lbs from a 30 cal rifle to play Johnny Jump-Up after taking the full force of a 30 cal to the heart/chest -- not impossible, by any means, since fear of being shot again is a great motivator.

But if you claim there's no angle-of-deflection having a radical æffect on that equation... well, just don't... I might die from laughing, Einstein.

Unless "square" means something different in your world?

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:51 pm

Diogenes wrote:
DESCRIPTION AND SPECIFICATIONSThe Small Caliber Ammunition program consists of the following cartridges: 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm, 10-Gauge, 12-Gauge, .22 caliber, .30 caliber, and .50 caliber.Small Caliber Ammunition supports the following soldier weapons: M9 pistol, M16A1/A2 rifle, M4 carbine, M249 squad automatic weapon, M240 machine gun, .50-caliber M2 machine gun, sniper rifles, and a variety of shotguns.
http://www.wilpf.int.ch/disarmament/CCW ... aliber.pdf

Wow.

Just wow.

I'd remind you that you're an idiot... but the reminder you just gave all of us is mind-boggling.

Words can't even describe your complete failure to comprehend even the slightest sliver of what is being discussed here.

You just linked up bowling balls in the thread about marbles.

While mvscal and I might entertain ourselves by arguing minutia in regard's to how much KE a person can take through Level 4, and how things like angle-of-deflection might æffect the sixe of the bruise... YOU have just truly shown you're so far from understanding what's up, it's fucking laughable.

And what's funnier, is that you're so fucking clueless, you don't even know why you look like a tard (this time).

And all the google in the world isn't going to fix that.

But it might help if you actually knew what the question was.

But thanks for the remonedr why you're the biggest fucking idiot here -- linking up some of the largest sidearms known to mankind as "small caliber" was pretty fucking funny.

I'll give you a hint, you fucking moron -- some of those weapons are considered "small caliber"... when they're mounted to the top of a tank or to a gunship.

But why stop there? You should probably walk into your local gunsmith, and ask him for a "small caliber 10-gauge, or a "small caliber 50 cal."

Holy fuck, you're an idiot.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 4:58 pm

mvscal wrote:have the balls to admit that he doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about even when the video is staring him right in the fucking face.

Oh.

Where is the shooter, then?

Sure an awful lot of AK bolt-clanking on the audio, in comparison to how much "bang" is heard from the muzzle.

That would tend to indicate, without any more evidence avaiable, that the microphone was somewhere behind the shooter. Plus, the guy's position is slightly angled towards the vehicle, so if the shooter wasn't sitting in the front seat, "dead square" is a virtual impossibility... tell me you knew?

Hmm... who to believe -- mvscal, who has no idea where the shooter is in the video, but to try and look cool, wants us to believe a midget is squatting on the dashboard of the vehicle with an AK, or one Sir Issac Newton....

Hmmmm.....

(regardless of the actaul number of ft/lbs dispersed into dude's cavity, it's pretty fucking badass how he Weebles his ass straight back up and takes cover)

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 5:53 pm

Large Caliber:

You got a vest that will stop this bad boy?

(even at a 45 degree angle)

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:43 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
DESCRIPTION AND SPECIFICATIONSThe Small Caliber Ammunition program consists of the following cartridges: 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm, 10-Gauge, 12-Gauge, .22 caliber, .30 caliber, and .50 caliber.Small Caliber Ammunition supports the following soldier weapons: M9 pistol, M16A1/A2 rifle, M4 carbine, M249 squad automatic weapon, M240 machine gun, .50-caliber M2 machine gun, sniper rifles, and a variety of shotguns.
http://www.wilpf.int.ch/disarmament/CCW ... aliber.pdf

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

Wow.

Just wow.

You should probably walk into your local gunsmith, and ask him for a "small caliber 10-gauge, or a "small caliber 50 cal."

Wow.

Just wow.

Well I guess if you say so the Army must be full of shit.

http://www.dtic.mil/dticasd/sbir/sbir032/a044a.pdf

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 6:52 pm

Dinsdale wrote:
Diogenes wrote:
DESCRIPTION AND SPECIFICATIONSThe Small Caliber Ammunition program consists of the following cartridges: 5.56mm, 7.62mm, 9mm, 10-Gauge, 12-Gauge, .22 caliber, .30 caliber, and .50 caliber.Small Caliber Ammunition supports the following soldier weapons: M9 pistol, M16A1/A2 rifle, M4 carbine, M249 squad automatic weapon, M240 machine gun, .50-caliber M2 machine gun, sniper rifles, and a variety of shotguns.
http://www.wilpf.int.ch/disarmament/CCW ... aliber.pdf
You should probably walk into your local gunsmith, and ask him for a "small caliber 10-gauge, or a "small caliber 50 cal."

Next up for Dio, a trip to the golf forum where he tries to argue that Tiger Woods doesn't carry a +10 handicap.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 7:10 pm

"Small" is realtive.

PSUFAN · Post by **PSUFAN** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:18 pm

sure thing, TVO

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 8:24 pm

No relative of mine...

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:15 pm

Diogenes wrote:Well I guess if you say so the Army must be full of shit.

Mix in some punctuation, and that almost makes sense.

But more often than not, the Army is indeed full of shit.

Except in this case, where you put your intelligence on display (I'm not sure why you think that will EVER end well for you), you thought an apples-to-watermelons argument actually made you smart.

It didn't. It had the exact same result as any other attempt you've ever made to appear intelligent... wonder why that is?

But yes, the Army has some pretty motherfucking huge projectiles at their disposal... tell me you knew?

If you're shooting a 50 cal from an M1 tank, it's "small caliber" by comparison. Put a 10 gauge next to a 120mm cannon, and it becomes "small caliber."

But hear's the catch, you flaming fucking retard --

smackaholic wrote:small caliber is fine, so long as the round is reasonably long and got enough grains behin dit spinning it down a coupla feet of rifle barrel.

How could you possibly fucking confuse rifles for heavy military armament? Are you really that fucking ignorant?

Or were you confused, and thought that manufacturers made vests that stopped fucking howitzer rounds? Are you running around thinking the terrrrrists are immune from a AC130 Spectre if they were sporting a flakjacket?

Are you really this monumentally stupid?

AGAIN -- wanna look smart and prove me wrong? Just stop on by that gun shop and ask him about the "small caliber 10 gauge." Go right ahead... I'm pretty sure you'd make his day.

Fucking idiot.

Diogenes · Post by **Diogenes** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:34 pm

Actually the .50 cal is for the M2 and M85. If you weren't to fucking stupid to follow the link (or shut up after having proven what a moron you are-again) you would have seen it is rated by the US Army as small calibre ammo.

But please- continue demonstrating what an ignorant braindead dipshit you are.

BTW, it's chapter 9 on the pdf. Dumbfuck.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:38 pm

Diogenes wrote:

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:50 pm

Uhm... yeah, that's what I just said, you clueless tard.

But please... PLEASE continue to inform all of us "dipshits" how a 50 cal is a "small caliber rifle."

BTW-since you're googling furiously trying to look like you know something, I'll help you out -- .50 goes in a bunch of different weapons.

And of all the rifles it goes into (and there's a whole fucking bunch of them), I challenge you to find one freaking person who classifies it as a "small caliber rifle."

And please save your attempted spin-job, since it isn't working for you. A 50 cal is "small caliber" when it's on a piece of mechanized armament. That's because it is "small" when your trying to shoot up a fucking tank with it.

I'll help you out even more, you superlative dumbass -- .50 is THE FUCKING LARGEST of the readily available rifle cartridges.

Not "small."

Not "somewhat small."

Not "medium."

Not "kind of large."

It's the LARGEST ONE THEY FUCKING MAKE (in non-custom/proprietary lines/shit you can walk into a typicalsporting goods store and buy).

Should I put that in bold text so it sinks in?

IT'S THE BIGGEST FUCKING RIFLE CARTRIDGE OUT THERE

So, let's have some more fun, and put dipshitgenes intelligence on display again --

Direct question, yes or no answer -- should the FUCKING LARGEST example of a given subset of something be defined as "small"?

YES or NO?

Sure, there could be certain odd circumstances -- I mean, take you for example... it's abundently clear that you are by far the BIGGEST dumbass to ever taint the internet, yet your bold text "style" leaves no doubt that it's compensating for something else being "small," but that's an exception, not the rule.

Save yourself the trouble, tard. There isn't one link on the entire world wide web that's going to help you sell a .50 as a "small caliber rifle" -- regardless how smart you think claiming so makes you appear (a concept that's fucking hilarious in and of itself).

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:58 pm

KC Paul's girth is small.

Sin,
Dio

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:58 pm

Mt Everest is small as far as mountains go.

Sin,
Dio

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:59 pm

Jupiter is a small planet in terms of our solar system.

Sin,
Dio

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:59 pm

Dinsdale wrote:KC Paul's girth is small.

Sin,
Dio

When considering the entire set of girths, yes it is.

(See "equator")

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Wed Dec 12, 2007 11:59 pm

Rumpleforeskin has a small wife.

Sin,
Dio

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:24 am

Mikey wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:KC Paul's girth is small.

Sin,
Dio
When considering the entire set of girths, yes it is.

(See "equator")

Disagree. When you take into account that the equator is wearing a winter coat, the gap narrows.

velocet · Post by **velocet** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 12:58 am

Dins,

You know what's funny to me about this whole line of smack you're producing here?

The whole "relative proportions" angle also applies to this and other i-net venues. Not to funk your smack, but I could make the case that Dio... hell MOST of this board's and .net's posters are certified geniuses.

Just compare posts here and at .net with a random sampling from the comments sections of blogs, YouTube, news organization websites etc.

To be clear, I'm not calling into question your penchant for calling it at you see it hereabouts. No, I'm saying that, in perspective if you think mind-numbing stupidity is rampant here, go not far elsewhere to find out that head-exploding stupidity is fukking prevalent. So much so that I think that even YOU would be at a loss for words.

velocet

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 1:58 am

Sometimes I firmly believe 99.9% of everyone is a fucking idiot.

But then, there's times like today, when I was completely surrounded by very vocal, devout SEC-haters.

It warmed my :heart: and gave me hope for humanity.

Mister Bushice · Post by **Mister Bushice** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 2:18 am

Cuda wrote:
KC Scott wrote:
BTW - the dude in Denver shot himself.
Colorado Springs, actually, but yeah, after the Church Lady drilled him multiple times,

A gun is just an extension of a mans naughty parts so all I did was shoot him with Satans tool.

sin,

KC Scott · Post by **KC Scott** » Thu Dec 13, 2007 3:08 am

Diogenes wrote:Actually the .50 cal is for the M2 and M85. If you weren't to fucking stupid to follow the link (or shut up after having proven what a moron you are-again) you would have seen it is rated by the US Army as small calibre ammo.

Dins is spot on dude.

.50 cal is tremed small caliber by the army beacuse it's shot through a gun as oppossed to a mortar, tank or cannon.
Google only works when you have some semblance of knowing what your talking about

*paging Howitzer the reindeer to the white cortesy phone

T1B

so much for that place being a gun free zone.

Re: so much for that place being a gun free zone.