Rack this guy

[buckeye_in_sc]

I know Kill...just was trying to show So Cal that not every year is their non con the nuts...see NU and ND last year...sure historically NU and ND are top 10-25 material...but last year they both stunk so the non con that USC Fan beat his chest about didn't amount to much...

hey OSU fan took a lot of heat...but U Dub stunk it up for what the 4th year in a row...when the series was signed they were great/above average...

I mean USC schedules great opponents...but they only have ONE recognized title, and again they played NU, ND, and Idaho last year...how exactly did that help them against Stanford????

[Degenerate]

in 07 they had Idaho because they had a coach go there and they scheduled them to boost Idahos finances and help that coach, they also had Nebraska and Notre dame.

You were using this as evidence for USC playing a tough out of conference schedule?

[buckeye_in_sc]

of course the same way Jim Tressel coached at YSU and wanted to give them a two year deal to boost their finances...and the long standing (back to the early 90's) of OSU scheduling MAC Ohio opponents (with the exception of NIU) to keep a $400k check in state...one of the issues (outside of say USC on a regular basis) are teams reluctance to give up a home slot...


so what So Cal it only works one way???

[buckeye_in_sc]

So i went researching...

according to NationalChampionship.net future USC opponents:

2011 Syracuse/ND (assuming ND as they are a rival)
2012 @Syracuse/ND
2013 BC/ND
2014 @BC/ND

wow...I am just floored by the superiority of those non-con opponents...

let's see 2010/2011 tOSU plays Miami of FLA where Miami of FLA > Syracuse
2012/2013 tOSU plays Cal where I would say CAL and BC are about equal over the last 3-5 years...

so tell me again about this toughness?

[SoCalTrjn]

USC gets 5 road games in conference every other year so they are limited to just 1 road game out of conference (of the 3 they play) in those years.
Congrats to ohio state for playing 1 of 4 ooc games a year on the road, but dont play akron, youngstown, kent in Cbus the other 3 games and expect kudos for your scheduling.
I know its tough for schools like OSU or USC to find OOC opponents, schools in the SEC fear home and home agreements.
I know Kansas fan isnt trying to talk shit on OOC scheduling
Florida International Lawrence, Kan.
Louisiana Tech Lawrence, Kan.
at South Florida Tampa, Fla.
Sam Houston State (Band Day and Family Day) Lawrence, Kan.

Thats as cowardly as I have seen in a long time, even if Mangino lost 250 lbs, he still wouldnt find his balls

[buckeye_in_sc]

Did USC go to Idaho? Ok then...

Akron, Kent, etc...their stadiums are lucky to hold 30k...in fact they would want the game in C Bus...they could make a ton more...in fact a few years back OSU was supposed to play SDSU in San Diego...they dialed up OSU and said we need to have this game in Columbus, it would be too expensive for us to run this game if we can't sell it out...

OSU generally plays 4-5 in conference games on the road as well...so they play 1 of 4 on the road...again it is the unwillingness for a lot of schools to do home and homes...I am just happy that OSU has stepped up and is scheduling 1 major OOC game whether home or on the road...can't argue with the slate of opponents though...

[indyfrisco]

U$C also gets to play Stanford, Washington, Washington St., Oregon St., and Arizona every year. The SHOULD be gimmies each year. Unfortunately, sometimes they step on their own dick and lose one.

No other BCS conference has as weak of a bottom tier as the PAC. Sure, Oregon is good and ASU, UCLA and Kal occasionally have a decent team, but the bottom is just awful. You GET to play those games every year. Most teams have to step it UP a notch once conference play begins.

[MuchoBulls]

at South Florida Tampa, Fla.

This should be a real good game

[SoCalTrjn]

Idaho was a one year, one game situation that USC tried to get out of when Nick Holt left Idaho. Ohio State plays 2-4 Idahos in Cbus every year.

Stanford, Washington, Arizona, Washington State put up more of a fight than Nebraska, Illinois, Michigan, Oklahoma, Iowa, Colorado, Arkansas and Auburn

[indyfrisco]

Stanford, Washington, Arizona, Washington State put up more of a fight than Nebraska, Illinois, Michigan, Oklahoma, Iowa, Colorado, Arkansas and Auburn

Thanks. Been wanting a new sig for some time.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Well Killian...as a OSU Alum/Fan that argument is way off base...tOSU is testing itself on the road against

USC
Oklahoma
Va Tech
Cal
Miami of FLA
Tennessee

so apparently whoever wrote the article hates doing research...that is the beauty of a conference...we get to play on THE ROAD at places like Happy Valley, Ann Arbor, Madison, etc...every other year...I mean so tOSU has 6-8 home games a year...ND has what 7 or so a year? I mean they generally play Army and AF at home,

I'll agree that the swipe at tOSU was unwarranted, and based solely on one season. That's been a staple at ND Nation since the '07 season. It's worth noting that a number of ND Nation posters even fail to do their research when talking about ND. For example: the majority, or at least a very vocal minority, of ND Nation posters think that the "virtual conference" scheduling model ND employs is an invention of Kevin White. White may have been the one to coin that phrase, but that model has been around long before he got there, even long before I got there as a student. At any given point in time, there are typically 8-9 schools who are on ND's schedule more often than not, although ND may not play all of them every single year and membership in this group does change from time to time.

But with all due respect, you made precisely the same mistake for which you criticized ND Nation. Yeah, I get the Commander-in-Chief Trophy smack, and ND has some tradition with Army, Navy and Air Force. But at the present time, Navy is the only one on ND's schedule with any regularity, as I pointed out to 88 on another thread. Let's examine, shall we?

Army: Since I graduated (in 1986), ND and Army have met only three times. One of those matchups was ND's 12th game in '06, which everyone, including ND, had to add on short notice. And in ND's case, in contrast to many other power programs, ND, while adding a cupcake, still added a 1-A opponent and an opponent against whom there is some tradition. But even though Army ranks sixth all-time in games played vs. ND (trailing only Navy, Purdue, USC, Michigan State and Pitt), that tradition is mainly in the past. In fact, you'd have to go all the way back to the 1940's (when Army was still a national power) for the last time these schools met in more than two consecutive seasons. As for location of the matchups, in more recent years they have been similar to Navy, alternating between ND and a neutral site in the northeast which was considered a "home" game for Army. http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/di ... teamid=188" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Air Force: Air Force was a regular on ND's schedule from '72 to '96, skipping the '92 and '93 seasons. But ND and Air Force met only twice between '97 and '05 inclusive. The recent return to the schedule was a home-and-home only, as Air Force is not on the schedule next year. Location has been split between ND and Colorado Springs. http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/di ... ?teamid=77" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

That doesn't change the fact that the larger point (i.e., let the market decide whether ND is right to insist on a neutral-site game for scheduling Rutgers and/or UConn) is right on the money. And since you mentioned the beauty of being in a conference, the beauty of being independent is that we only have to play schools for whom a matchup is mutually advantageous. We don't owe Rutgers a game (unless we want to play them), let alone a six-year series. The fact that some on this board have chosen to spin a simple contract-negotiation matter into ND wearing the black hat shows an apparent disregard for this relatively simple fact.

...hey ND Nation guy...call up Kevin White and have him schedule another series with OSU like 95/96...we would love to roll you guys in C Bus and South Bend again...

again Terry/Kill, not a swipe at you but I would like to get your take...

Since you asked . . .

I'd love another series with tOSU. In fact, to me it remains one of the great mysteries of college football why two traditional powers located in geographically contiguous states have met only five times in history, including one bowl game, and only twice prior to 1995. But I don't think it'll happen anytime soon, for the same reasons that I mentioned in PSUFAN's thread that would hamstring a renewal of the ND-Penn State series. Given that ND already has three regular Big Ten opponents, and the Big Ten has a September-only rule when it comes to scheduling ND, there just isn't enough time on the calendar for ND to add more Big Ten opponents in most years. Short of either ND dropping either Purdue or Sparty, or alternating them on the schedule, or the Big Ten relaxing the September-only rule on ND, I don't see that changing. And I don't think the former option would work, more likely it would only piss off the rest of the Big Ten. As to the latter option, you guys and Michigan pretty much run the roost in the Big Ten, so maybe you could make that happen.

As to more generalized thoughts on ND's scheduling, I have plenty of those, but not enough time right now to post them. More later.

[Degenerate]

I know Kansas fan isnt trying to talk shit on OOC scheduling
Florida International Lawrence, Kan.
Louisiana Tech Lawrence, Kan.
at South Florida Tampa, Fla.
Sam Houston State (Band Day and Family Day) Lawrence, Kan.

And Kansas won't beat any of them as badly as they trashed Nebraska last year. You know, the toughest team USC played last year OOC.

You were bragging about what, again? Playing Notre Dame and Idaho?

Good luck trying to handle Stanford this year. Maybe you'll catch them during exams or something.

[buckeye_in_sc]

Good points Terry...I often wondered why ND and tOSU don't play more and the issue of the big ten teams makes sense...

i just think for the sake of the alumni bases and all of college football it would be awesome to play at least every few years...when I was in Columbus for that 95 game..WOW..the only game since then I have attended in person that was a greater emotional scene was 2006 Michigan...

and terry the Army/AF wasn't CIC smack...just pointing out ND generally plays them at home...that was all...so ND plays about 6-7 home games per year most years...

I think more teams would schedule neutral site or home and homes if there was a way to make up the money lost...just my opinion...but OSU has the largest athletic budget...so losing 1 home game that generates significant revenue is tough...

but if SO CAL were running things...the only sport that would be left is football USC would get 125 ships and everyone else 85 so they could run up the score and go after opposing QB's legs...

[Terry in Crapchester]

and terry the Army/AF wasn't CIC smack...just pointing out ND generally plays them at home...that was all...

I thought I addressed this point in my last post, but . . .

Air Force and Army are no longer regulars on our schedule. And Army hasn't been a regular on our schedule at any time in the recent past, at least by any reasonable definition of that phrase. And when we have played those teams, we've played them at home only about 50% of the time or so at home.

so ND plays about 6-7 home games per year most years...

We've typically played six games or so at home per year. We had seven in '88, but one of those was a one-off vs. Rice to replace SMU after SMU got the death penalty. I don't remember for sure, but I think the SMU game originally was supposed to be a road game, we previously played them in '86 at home.

Beginning in '09 we go to a 7-4-1 scheduling model. In addition, we're continuing to play the regulars (although BC is being replaced by UConn, I believe after the '10 season), playing three games per year vs. Big East teams, and doing the one "barnstorming" game per season. Overall, it's the equivalent of trying to fit 50 pounds of shit into a five-pound sack, but I'll go over each component:

Traditional rivals: I have no problem with continuing this. Tradition is important at ND, so these games should continue. I don't have a problem with dumping BC for UConn. I would consider alternating Purdue and Michigan State on the schedule, but as I said previously, I don't think we'll get an extra Big Ten opponent by doing so.

Three games vs. Big East: I don't have a problem with this, at least not in theory. The Big East helped us save our basketball program and build our olympic sports, and hasn't even required football membership from us in exchange. Giving the Big East a relatively favored position on our football schedule in exchange is hardly much of a sacrifice.

The potential problem is in the mechanics of the scheduling. Pitt is a traditional rival, so they're getting an annual matchup. ND wanted a game in the NYC area every other year, which is why they negotiated first with Rutgers and later with UConn. The Big East wanted ND to play every team in the conference, so the third game is being alternated between the remaining schools.

The problem is that one of the more valid criticisms of ND's scheduling in years to come is the absence of marquee schools on the schedule beyond Michigan and USC. Oklahoma is on the schedule for '12 and '13, I believe, but that's it. In light of that fact, I'm not so sure that ND shouldn't have scheduled an annual matchup with West Virginia in lieu of one of the latter two requirements. West Virginia is the closest thing to a national power in the Big East right now. Time will tell if we made the right move, I suppose.

Barnstorming: I've had a change of heart on this. I was excited about this when it was first announced. Barnstorming harkens back to the days of Knute Rockne, and at first I was envisioning games against non-everyday opponents along the lines of the following:

ND vs. Illinois or Wisconsin in Chicago
ND vs. Indiana or Kentucky in Indianapolis
ND vs. Texas or Oklahoma in Dallas
ND vs. Texas or aTm in Houston or San Antonio
ND vs. LSU in New Orleans
ND vs. Florida or Florida State in Jacksonville or Orlando
ND vs. tOSU in Cleveland or Cincinnati
ND vs. Penn State in Philadelphia
ND vs. West Virginia or Virginia Tech in Washington, D.C.
ND vs. Rutgers in East Rutherford
ND vs. UConn in East Rutherford or Foxboro (in fairness, we'll be getting this, but I don't think it counts as part of the barnstorming)
ND vs. Syracuse in Buffalo
ND vs. Colorado in Denver
ND vs. Missouri in St. Louis
ND vs. Nebraska, Kansas, Kansas State or Missouri in Kansas City

Instead, we get the likes of ND vs. Washington State in San Antonio (not a knock on Q's team, just a knock on the ridiculousness of the venue for that game. I wouldn't have a problem with playing Washington State in Seattle.)

Barnstorming is a nice idea in theory. In practice, however, and particularly in the hands of Kevin White, it's a disaster waiting to happen. Get rid of it.

7-4-1: Far and away the worst provision of the future schedules. There are a few respectable BCS programs that might take a one-off at ND with no return trip. Washington State, Oregon State, and Texas Tech come to mind as schools that might fit into that category, along with several Big East schools. But there aren't enough schools that fit into that category. Long-term, the only way to sustain 7-4-1 is to dumb down the schedule to an unacceptable level. Alternatively, it might be possible to get to 7-4-1 by getting rid of most if not all of the regulars on the schedule, but I'd prefer to keep the regulars.

If the good Dr. White is of the opinion that a seventh home game is necessary for revenue purposes, I have floated a compromise. I would look into scheduling a series of road games vs. Hawaii, not every year but maybe 3-4 times per decade. That would allow us a 13th game in those years, which presumably could be a seventh home game. That's not a perfect solution (we'd have to play a game either in the last weekend of August or the first weekend of December to get a bye week), but it's infinitely better than the 7-4-1 option we have ahead.

[King Crimson]

the key to barnstorming the Big Easy against Baylor is that it's a semi-neutral field and Baylor has no fans and sucks.

you think playing OU, UT, ATM in Dallas or Houston or San Antonio is gonna be anything like a "barnstormer" neutral field.

you might get a great showing of 5,000 ND fans. the other 70,000 will be sooners, horns, ags. No AD is ever gonna do that. that's a road game. playing wazzou in san antonio make more sense since about 60% of the 25,000 people who actually buy tickets to that tilt are generally ambivalent or won tickets at the gas station or on the AM radio.

no offense, but ND is passing out of the cultural memory until you win some games. Right now, you have national media sadism and losing/recruiting cred. until you beat someone good, that's it.

[Screw_Michigan]

jesus christ terry, you actually once imagined that nd would voluntarily barnstorm into the superdome to play lsu? that would never happen and you fucking know it. guaranteed L.

[Adelpiero]

U$C also gets to play Stanford, Washington, Washington St., Oregon St., and Arizona every year. The SHOULD be gimmies each year. Unfortunately, sometimes they step on their own dick and lose one.

No other BCS conference has as weak of a bottom tier as the PAC. Sure, Oregon is good and ASU, UCLA and Kal occasionally have a decent team, but the bottom is just awful. You GET to play those games every year. Most teams have to step it UP a notch once conference play begins.

im not going to homer the Pac10, but c'mon

the Big least is clearly the worst.

Cinccy,pitt,rutgers,Uconn, syracuse, Louisville those teams are jokes.

it won't be too long, before scheduling a Big East mid to bottom team will be considered, scheduling patsies.

i dont blame Rutgers for bailing on ND series, they took those beatings in fetal position, and yelled Uncle. Nothing wrong with that.

[Killian]

jesus christ terry, you actually once imagined that nd would voluntarily barnstorm into the superdome to play lsu? that would never happen and you fucking know it. guaranteed L.

Your hatred of ND is really clouding your view. Terry and I form our opinions and pov's usind the ND we grew up watching, not the water downed pussy version currently created by Monk Malloy and Kevin White.

The scheduling is the tip of the ice berg with White. The schedules od the late 90's and early 00's were tough, fair schedules including trips to LSU, Nebraska, FSU, etc. White had nothing to do with those.

He's a pussy by nature and a complete revenue whore. He negotiates ND from a position of weakness and runs the program as if it were a MAC school.

Oh, and King Crimson, I doubt ND is passing out of the cultural memory. At least they're not with the recruits who continue to commit to them.

[King Crimson]

Oh, and King Crimson, I doubt ND is passing out of the cultural memory. At least they're not with the recruits who continue to commit to them.

that's not what i said. if you read my post i mention recruiting. what i am saying/already said is that the "sadism" of watching ND lose isn't really the national draw it once was and you will pass out of the cultural memory if ND doesn't start beating good teams. winning 7 games against a "tough" schedule of Big 10 also-rans and "rivals" and "traditional sites" ain't getting you anywhere near the BCS.

[Terry in Crapchester]

the key to barnstorming the Big Easy against Baylor is that it's a semi-neutral field and Baylor has no fans and sucks.

you think playing OU, UT, ATM in Dallas or Houston or San Antonio is gonna be anything like a "barnstormer" neutral field.

you might get a great showing of 5,000 ND fans. the other 70,000 will be sooners, horns, ags. No AD is ever gonna do that. that's a road game. playing wazzou in san antonio make more sense since about 60% of the 25,000 people who actually buy tickets to that tilt are generally ambivalent or won tickets at the gas station or on the AM radio.

I only partially agree with this.

As I understand it, the reason why we're playing Washington State in San Antonio and Baylor in New Orleans is for TV purposes. White wanted the barnstorming games on NBC (refer to Killian's statement about him being a revenue whore), and as I understand it, had those games been played inside the footprint of the opponents' conferences, the network with the TV contract for those conferences would have had TV rights. I agree that you'll see more ND fans in San Antonio than Washington State fans, and more ND fans in New Orleans than Baylor fans. But that's only an incidental result of the scheduling, rather than the intended result.

As for the rest, I agree that for most of the matchups I mentioned ND fans would be in the minority (I'd make exceptions to that statement for the Big East teams, the Big Ten teams other than tOSU and possibly Penn State, and also for Kentucky and Virginia Tech). But 5,000 fans a game at the rest of the games? I don't think so.

IIRC, 5,000 tickets is the standard allotment for the visiting team at a road game. At an ostensibly neutral game, I think the ticket distribution would be a bit more equitable. And keep in mind that ND has a national fan base. Many of the ND fans live a significant distance away from ND's campus, and for those people, particularly the non-alums, getting to campus for a game can be a bit of a hardship. Typically, ND never has any problem filling its allotment of visitors' tickets (in fact, I think we got 35,000 tickets for the UCLA game last year).

[King Crimson]

OK, for the sake of argument let's triple the 5,000 number. 15,000 ND fans in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio.....60,000 horns, ags, sooners. i like i say "sadism" has limited appeal.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Of course, my list wasn't intended to be conclusive -- you'll notice a number of variables in it.

But even if that weren't the case, keep in mind that we're only playing one such game per year. It might be decades before we get around to any particular given game on that list. Who knows what college football will be like at that time?

[SoCalTrjn]

4 road games a year is down right cowardly. 5 road games a year should make schools ineligible for a bowl. play 6 you fucking cunts

[PSUFAN]

ADs aren't really renowned for their cojones. They make the big bucks for themselves and their schools, so the admins can all afford Viagra. Call it a wash.

[Screw_Michigan]

another nd off-site game in texas vs. az state.

Notre Dame to play ASU at Cowboys stadium in 2013

Tribune Staff Report

Notre Dame will play Arizona State on Oct. 5, 2013 at the new Dallas Cowboys stadium in Arlington, Texas. It is one of the "off-site" games Notre Dame will begin playing in 2009. The first will be Oct. 31, 2009 against Washington State in San Antonio.

The off-site game is part of ND athletic director Kevin White’s 7-4-1 scheduling policy (seven home games, four road games, one off-site game). The off-site game is essentially a home game for the Irish in terms of TV and revenue.

NBC will have the television rights to the game. Notre Dame is expected to make tickets available to contributing alumni and fans through the alumni lottery. Arizona State will receive an allotment of tickets as the visiting team.

"We’re thrilled to have a chance to return to north Texas where Notre Dame football has had such a rich tradition, particularly through our appearances in the Cotton Bowl over the years," White said in a statement.

"We’re also excited that both our players and our fans will have a chance to experience a football game in what will be a state-of-the-art facility as designed by the Cowboys."

The stadium is under construction and is scheduled to open in 2009. Capacity will be 80,000.

16-18 years since the last cotton bowl appearance for nd, and of course, that equals a rich tradition. i prefer to think of the rich tradition of mac-caliber football and 3-9 seasons.

[Screw_Michigan]

another nd off-site game in texas vs. az state.

Notre Dame to play ASU at Cowboys stadium in 2013

Tribune Staff Report

Notre Dame will play Arizona State on Oct. 5, 2013 at the new Dallas Cowboys stadium in Arlington, Texas. It is one of the "off-site" games Notre Dame will begin playing in 2009. The first will be Oct. 31, 2009 against Washington State in San Antonio.

The off-site game is part of ND athletic director Kevin White’s 7-4-1 scheduling policy (seven home games, four road games, one off-site game). The off-site game is essentially a home game for the Irish in terms of TV and revenue.

NBC will have the television rights to the game. Notre Dame is expected to make tickets available to contributing alumni and fans through the alumni lottery. Arizona State will receive an allotment of tickets as the visiting team.

"We’re thrilled to have a chance to return to north Texas where Notre Dame football has had such a rich tradition, particularly through our appearances in the Cotton Bowl over the years," White said in a statement.

"We’re also excited that both our players and our fans will have a chance to experience a football game in what will be a state-of-the-art facility as designed by the Cowboys."

The stadium is under construction and is scheduled to open in 2009. Capacity will be 80,000.

16-18 years since the last cotton bowl appearance for nd, and of course, that equals a rich tradition. i prefer to think of the rich tradition of mac-caliber football and 3-9 seasons.

[Adelpiero]

thats retarded

if ND wants to play Mizzou in St.Louis, OU in KC , Wisconsin in GB, or shit that makes sense(geography wise), then so be it, but that game in texas is beyond retarded. ND fans should be a shame of that OOC game. Neither team has any ties to the area and it is solely a whoring out for Cash game. ASU?, what was a game vs Temple in Fresno not considered, oh wait, how about Nd vs BYU in Maine? ND vs Oregon in bismark?

[SoCalTrjn]

Every major conference team should boycott playing Notre Dame until Notre Dame is forced to join a conference. This neutral site shit is all NBC driven, the 7-4-1 scheduling is a ploy to put Notre Dame on NBC 8 times a year. Unless of course the neutral site game is going to be on ABC which is the network of the Pacific 10... dont worry, its not.
The Major Conferences have control over the situation, they just need to have the balls to do the right thing. Let Notre Dame play 12 games a year vs WAC, Conference USA and MAC schools, let's see if NBC is content airing games with the Irish and Bowling Green, live from Candlestick Park. NBC would put the pressure on The Irish and either drop the amount of money they pay to put Irish games on TV or tell Notre Dame to join a conference and then air all of the games of that conference
Id fully support USC not playing Notre Dame for a few years so this will happen, give the Trojans a chance to get more home and homes with those Kentucky Fried Twatsicles from the SEC, if you can find another SEC team with the balls to play a home and home with the Trojans

[Terry in Crapchester]

another nd off-site game in texas vs. az state.

Notre Dame to play ASU at Cowboys stadium in 2013

Tribune Staff Report

Notre Dame will play Arizona State on Oct. 5, 2013 at the new Dallas Cowboys stadium in Arlington, Texas. It is one of the "off-site" games Notre Dame will begin playing in 2009. The first will be Oct. 31, 2009 against Washington State in San Antonio.

The off-site game is part of ND athletic director Kevin White’s 7-4-1 scheduling policy (seven home games, four road games, one off-site game). The off-site game is essentially a home game for the Irish in terms of TV and revenue.

NBC will have the television rights to the game. Notre Dame is expected to make tickets available to contributing alumni and fans through the alumni lottery. Arizona State will receive an allotment of tickets as the visiting team.

"We’re thrilled to have a chance to return to north Texas where Notre Dame football has had such a rich tradition, particularly through our appearances in the Cotton Bowl over the years," White said in a statement.

"We’re also excited that both our players and our fans will have a chance to experience a football game in what will be a state-of-the-art facility as designed by the Cowboys."

The stadium is under construction and is scheduled to open in 2009. Capacity will be 80,000.

16-18 years since the last cotton bowl appearance for nd, and of course, that equals a rich tradition.

If you're counting, ND's last Cotton Bowl appearance was 14 seasons ago. Coincidentally, that's right around the time the Cotton stopped being a major bowl. And fwiw, ND had seven Cotton Bowl appearances. http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/bo ... ?bowlid=75" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; I believe that's first all-time among non-SWC schools. Not bad for a school that didn't even go to bowl games before 1970.

All of that being said, I'm in no way defending White's barnstorming policy. I've already expressed my opinion on that earlier in the thread.

Btw, doesn't your paper have a no link, no copy policy on the interwebs?

[Terry in Crapchester]

4 road games a year is down right cowardly. 5 road games a year should make schools ineligible for a bowl. play 6 you fucking cunts

You didn't go there, did you?

Are you actually suggesting that a neutral site game vs. LSU at the Superdome is more "cowardly" than a road game at Arizona? If so, the mods should sticky this thread right now. We have a new winner in the stupidest Schmick post category. This one makes the suggestion that teams should only recruit instate look positively brilliant by comparison.

But let's take your statement at face value. Let's take a look at USC's road schedule, shall we?

One of the "road" games USC plays every other year is against UCLA. That game is played at the Rose Bowl. Last time I checked, the Rose Bowl isn't on the UCLA campus, and for that matter, isn't even particularly close to the UCLA campus. In fact, IIRC, USC's campus is actually closer to the Rose Bowl than is UCLA's campus -- just a 15-20 minute trip up the 110. Throw in the bandwagoning nature of SoCal fans on top of that, and the fact that SoCal college fan is essentially CrownSissyrooTiberious West -- i.e., USC football fan and UCLA basketball fan (granted, this could all change if USC hires another Ted Tollner) -- the UCLA game becomes a de facto home game. That swooning sound you hear is coming from SEC BSH right about now. Sorry, dude, but UCLA is not a "road" game for you. At best, it's a neutral site game.

And of course, you miss the greater point. The point is not what you assume -- that home games are somehow inherently more "cowardly" than road games. Conceivably, you could have a much tougher slate of games at home than on the road (granted, it wouldn't make much sense to do it that way, since the home/road games rotate the following year, but it's at least theoretically possible). The problem with 7-4-1 is that the limited number of road games available means that you have to dumb down the schedule to an unacceptable level to fill it out. I would have no problem with 6-5-1 (assuming, of course, that the neutral site games were being done correctly, which they obviously are not), which doesn't require the same dumbing down. So the thing is, even when you're right, you're wrong. I guess that's why you're Schmick.

Every major conference team should boycott playing Notre Dame until Notre Dame is forced to join a conference. This neutral site shit is all NBC driven, the 7-4-1 scheduling is a ploy to put Notre Dame on NBC 8 times a year. Unless of course the neutral site game is going to be on ABC which is the network of the Pacific 10... dont worry, its not.
The Major Conferences have control over the situation, they just need to have the balls to do the right thing. Let Notre Dame play 12 games a year vs WAC, Conference USA and MAC schools, let's see if NBC is content airing games with the Irish and Bowling Green, live from Candlestick Park. NBC would put the pressure on The Irish and either drop the amount of money they pay to put Irish games on TV or tell Notre Dame to join a conference and then air all of the games of that conference
Id fully support USC not playing Notre Dame for a few years so this will happen, give the Trojans a chance to get more home and homes with those Kentucky Fried Twatsicles from the SEC, if you can find another SEC team with the balls to play a home and home with the Trojans

You've mentioned this before, as a practical suggestion, it's about as useful as a screen door on a submarine (or wheels, to use a Cheers reset).

Let's take a look at ND's regulars, and how likely they are to go along with it, shall we?

If ND ever were to join a conference, it's most likely destination would be either the Big Ten or the Big East. And they clearly would have a choice there. In light of that, you can rule out Michigan, Michigan State, Purdue and Pitt right off the bat. Beginning in 2010, you can also rule out UConn and the rotating Big East opponent for the same reason. That's half of ND's schedule, right there, who will still be willing to play ND. Wanna go on? Let's look at the rest:

Navy: No dog in this particular fight. If anything, they might be inclined to side with ND, as a show of solidarity among independents.

Boston College: Are you fugging kidding me? ND is their Super Bowl. They're bent as hell as it is that they're being dropped from the schedule in the near future.

USC: Last time I checked, you weren't the Athletic Director at USC. Call it a hunch, but I'm pretty sure Mike Garrett disagrees with you.

Stanford: This is the tough one to call. But given Stanford's commitment to academics, I suspect their administration is pretty tradition-oriented. If that's the case, and they view this as ND trying to hold on to its tradition, they might be sympathetic to ND. OTOH, if they see it as strictly a money grab, they're probably not so sympathetic.

As for the rest of the schedule, as long as ND can guarantee a significant sum of money and a national TV appearance, I don't think they'll have trouble getting many schools to play.

And I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for NBC to force ND into a conference either. NBC wanted an independent -- tell me you knew. Besides, if NBC were to do that, ND probably would be more likely to try to find an alternate TV contract rather than acquiesce to NBC. At least, that's what the majority of its fanbase would want.

The only entity with the muscle to force ND into a conference is the NCAA. And I don't think they'll do that, for two reasons. First, the NCAA has taken a largely hands-off approach to all the significant conference realignment which has taken place since the early 90's. To intervene now for the purpose of forcing ND into a conference would look extremely hypocritical in light of that history, not that the appearance of hypocrisy has always stopped the NCAA from taking action in the past.

Second, and more likely to hinder the NCAA, is the fact that they'd also have to force Army and Navy into conferences. For the full weight of the NCAA to come down on two schools which perhaps, more than any others among 1-A schools, embody the ideal of the student-athlete, would be a gross public relations gaffe. I don't think the NCAA would want to chance that.

And btw, if you truly want ND into a conference, Kevin White is your friend, not your foe. Remember, he moved heaven and earth a few years ago to try to get us into the ACC. Even when that didn't happen, he mentioned that ND will "continue to monitor the landscape." I think he would love nothing better than to have his defining moment as an AD come in steering ND into a football conference membership. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me in the least if the actual intent of 7-4-1 was actually to wear down opposition to conference membership among ND's fanbase with the ensuing watered-down schedules.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

TiC goes upper deck!

[Killian]

[Danimal]

I don't like the way ND gets it's ass kissed but I still like that ND is that last big independent. It is a part of their tradition, and if they can hold onto their network deal then more power to them for staying indie.

[Screw_Michigan]

nice ass kicking you just laid out, terry. but the tribune is not my paper and i'm sure there is "no link, no copy" policy buried somewhere deep in every newspaper's employee handbook, but i really couldn't care less.

[Killian]

nice ass kicking you just laid out, terry. but the tribune is not my paper and i'm sure there is "no link, no copy" policy buried somewhere deep in every newspaper's employee handbook, but i really couldn't care less.

I think Terry brought that up because they (Tribune) threatened legal action against NDnation.com because they were linking their articles and posting text on their website.

[Adelpiero]

nice ass kicking you just laid out, terry. but the tribune is not my paper and i'm sure there is "no link, no copy" policy buried somewhere deep in every newspaper's employee handbook, but i really couldn't care less.

I think Terry brought that up because they (Tribune) threatened legal action against NDnation.com because they were linking their articles and posting text on their website.

is ndnation a pay site? subscription?

if so, that is the tribs problem. why should they be allowed to charge, while their product is being linked and used. If its a free site, using a newspapers links, u have no problem, and noone i know of has had a problem with it(read several CFB boards that link from newspapers). has to be a reason trib is being jerkoffs!

[Screw_Michigan]

nice ass kicking you just laid out, terry. but the tribune is not my paper and i'm sure there is "no link, no copy" policy buried somewhere deep in every newspaper's employee handbook, but i really couldn't care less.

I think Terry brought that up because they (Tribune) threatened legal action against NDnation.com because they were linking their articles and posting text on their website.

that's an interesting and an extreme reaction on the trib's part. i could see how they might be a bit sensitive about it occuring such a high-traffic site like ndnation (which i think is what it comes down to), but i shed no tears for a business that pays its rookie sports reporters around $13/hr. obviously they are leaning heavily on clicks for internet advertising.

i worked an northern indiana conference league event the other night and one of the trib guys i see around every once in a while was there working. i'm sure i'll see him next week and i'll ask him about their policy.

adel, ndnation isn't a pay site, but it's very heavy handed in how it is patrolled. they are very anal hardcore about patrolling the site, the amount of new users and keeping trolling to a minimum. trust me, ndnation disappointed me about nine times last season. but i find the site is very valuable and has lots of great information and dirt on it. us reporters are used to trolling team bbs, but the ndnation is usually very reliable when it comes to rumors and innuendo.

i also love seeing that board melt on the spot anytime the sb trib has a "negative" article about nd football. you've never seen so many tarp-sized panties get up in a bunch about clausen getting popped by excise cops near camups. whooptie damn doo.

[Goober McTuber]

but i shed no tears for a business that pays its rookie sports reporters around $13/hr. obviously they are leaning heavily on clicks for internet advertising.

$13 per hour would be about twice what most young sports reporters are worth.

[Terry in Crapchester]

thats retarded

if ND wants to play Mizzou in St.Louis, OU in KC , Wisconsin in GB, or shit that makes sense(geography wise), then so be it, but that game in texas is beyond retarded. ND fans should be a shame of that OOC game. Neither team has any ties to the area and it is solely a whoring out for Cash game. ASU?, what was a game vs Temple in Fresno not considered, oh wait, how about Nd vs BYU in Maine? ND vs Oregon in bismark?

While I'm in no way defending this game, I have to confess to being a little perplexed as to why there's been so much criticism on this board of this game, and nary a peep about the Washington State game in San Antonio. Imho, that game is at least a gazillion times worse than this one. ND at least had a substantial connection to the Cotton Bowl at one point, and you at least have a chance of seeing a handful of ASU fans at this one. By contrast, I don't think ND has ever played in San Antonio before, nor do I expect you'll see many "real" Washington State fans (as opposed to people rooting for ND to lose) in San Antonio.

Btw, another thing that makes you go "hmmmm": so far, of the "barnstorming" opponents scheduled, one (ASU) is White's former stomping grounds, and the other two (Washington State and Baylor) now have athletic departments headed up by erstwhile cohorts of the good Doctor.

[Terry in Crapchester]

Update (at least on the initial point of this thread) . . .

Rutgers is planning to scale back its stadium expansion plans, due to the fact that the cost of the stadium upgrade is more expensive than they anticipated. No plans yet to scale back the seating expansion, but "all options are on the table." http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/57271" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;