Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Moderators: 88BuckeyeGrad, Left Seater, buckeye_in_sc
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Sure seems like the consensus here is that OU should be above Texas.
OU also seems to be the #2 or #3 pick overall, with ND edging out Michigan so far for #1. It also seems others here share my ambivalence about Michigan. Michigan is all over the map in these picks.
Mgo, what made you put Bama above USC, ND and OU?
OU also seems to be the #2 or #3 pick overall, with ND edging out Michigan so far for #1. It also seems others here share my ambivalence about Michigan. Michigan is all over the map in these picks.
Mgo, what made you put Bama above USC, ND and OU?
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
When I looked at their combined all-time average of the key stats I listed above, they dominated. Combine that with their host of MNCs, and the mystique and all around tradition of the program, they were a top 3 pick for me.Van wrote:Mgo, what made you put Bama above USC, ND and OU?
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Texas did go 35 years without a MNC, roughly half of the "modern era". in that same time frame, OU won 4.Van wrote:Sure seems like the consensus here is that OU should be above Texas.
the second part is kind of a homer post, i admit.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
If you're looking at all time, I don't know how you can include Princeton and Yale. They haven't been relevant in decades. Hell, they aren't even d1! It seems like that would be the most minimal qualifier: that you have to at least maintain division 1 status
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
I'm thinking he was referring back to the thread where you said Auburn and t.u. were "equals" in CFB lore.Papa Willie wrote:King Crimson wrote:FIFY, :wink:Papa Willie wrote: So, based upon these 3 most important stats ALL TIME (for you dumbfucks who can't figure that out), here are the final results:
1. Michigan
2. Notre Dame
3. Yale
4. Texas/Auburn
5. Ohio State
6. Oklahoma
7. Alabama
8. Princeton
9. Nebraska
10. USC
I'm sure some of you are narrow-minded enough to where you'll cry, but football was actually a game a long, long fucking time before you were born. You just can't throw that away.
Nope. Auburn's not in there. I'm sure I could compile a gay and flawed list like Shmick did and have them looking that way, but I'm basing my results on ALL TIME results. This is an ALL TIME thread, so that's what I did.
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
'Spray, considering their NC's, Heismans, All Americans, CF HOF-ers, NFL HOF-ers, 1st round draft picks, bowl game winning %, bowl game appearances, conference championships, total wins, winning %, consistency over time and their overall importance to the game I'd say your placing USC at #10 is more than a little specious.
Hell, I'd say it means you need to have your head examined, or at least you need to check your biases at the door.
Hell, I'd say it means you need to have your head examined, or at least you need to check your biases at the door.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Big time.MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:If you're looking at all time, I don't know how you can include Princeton and Yale. They haven't been relevant in decades. Hell, they aren't even d1! It seems like that would be the most minimal qualifier: that you have to at least maintain division 1 status.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
'Spray, everything I just said regarding USC covers their ALL TIME history. ALL TIME, there's no way they're only #10.
USC was damn good way back in the twenties and thirties. The name Howard Jones ring a bell?
Those Heismans and NCs and bowl games, winning %, total wins, etc, that stuff covers their entire history, not just the past fifty years. Their entire history is easily better than #10.
USC was damn good way back in the twenties and thirties. The name Howard Jones ring a bell?
Those Heismans and NCs and bowl games, winning %, total wins, etc, that stuff covers their entire history, not just the past fifty years. Their entire history is easily better than #10.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
I gotta agree with that point too. 150 years from now (when they have a 7 year old playoff system in place), the better half of my great-great-great-grandson's mangoo will be arguing with some other CFB honk that anything that happened prior to the advent of the playoff system is irrelavent.Papa Willie wrote:150 years from now, they probably won't want to use stats that are being produced right now.
Does anyone think that what happens today is completely irrelavent? Sure, we have disagreements on how things should be handled, but no one here wants what you are living through to be erased from the books or disregarded as unimportant.
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Like Mgo said though, if you're not even D1 and you haven't been a competitive D1 equivalent team through the entire modern era then you simply don't rate. Also, you can bet that if we're still playing CF 150 years from now the forward pass will still be a part of the game.
Forget the stats. When Princeton and Yale were winning they weren't even playing the same game that's been played for the past fifty years. Moroever, they didn't play full seasons. They also didn't play much beyond their very local region.
NCs at that point were nothing more than local club awards. It would be like saying Mgo was Amercia's national collegiate debate champion simply because he won the Smack Off here...
Forget the stats. When Princeton and Yale were winning they weren't even playing the same game that's been played for the past fifty years. Moroever, they didn't play full seasons. They also didn't play much beyond their very local region.
NCs at that point were nothing more than local club awards. It would be like saying Mgo was Amercia's national collegiate debate champion simply because he won the Smack Off here...
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Yeah, but 150 years from now, players may have laser guns that can be used to "tackle" or wield off defenders. The Last Boyscout was not just a movie. It was a prophecy.Van wrote:Like Mgo said though, if you're not even D1 and you haven't been a competitive D1 equivalent team through the entire modern era then you simply don't rate. Also, you can bet that if we're still playing CF 150 years from now the forward pass will still be a part of the game.
Ain't life a bitch?
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Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
i'm all for giving the ivys their due respect, but for how many years did they actually dominate? and what did that domination actually entail? the nd/usc game is a big deal because of how it started: that the programs were actually willing to sit on a train for an entire week just to make it happen, whereas the ivys were the original sec, though they have a decent excuse since air transport wasn't as readily available as it is today.
and just because the owned some ambiguous past does it mean they get equal regard. we should consider the actual length of their reign rather than splitting this up 50/50 between then and now.
and just because the owned some ambiguous past does it mean they get equal regard. we should consider the actual length of their reign rather than splitting this up 50/50 between then and now.
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
In Bowl Games a school isnt going to be playing vs the likes of Haskel Institute, Hillsdale, Illinois Cycling Club, Iowa Navy Pre-Flight....
If you don't understand that Bowl Winning Percentage and Bowl Wins is a MUCH more important stat than overall winning percentage and overall wins for determining a schools overall greatness, you're a fucking idiot.
If you don't understand that Bowl Winning Percentage and Bowl Wins is a MUCH more important stat than overall winning percentage and overall wins for determining a schools overall greatness, you're a fucking idiot.
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
a fucking idiot or capable of legitimate thought. using the bowl system to make your point isn't very convincing considering we get matchups where the second-best pac 10 team plays the fourth-best big xii team, or when some big ten school gets to play a middle-of-the-pack mac school. there's a couple bowl wins for you.SoCalTrjn wrote:In Bowl Games a school isnt going to be playing vs the likes of Haskel Institute, Hillsdale, Illinois Cycling Club, Iowa Navy Pre-Flight....
If you don't understand that Bowl Winning Percentage and Bowl Wins is a MUCH more important stat than overall winning percentage and overall wins for determining a schools overall greatness, you're a fucking idiot.
also, the weak-ooc phenomenon is relatively new. most teams have put their resumes together against conference schools, not in-state directionals.
so there, fucking idiot.
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
'Spray, even simply applying your own highly oversimplified method of all time wins, winning % and NCs USC finishes ahead of Nebraska.
That was just the first team I checked. USC finished ahead of Nebraska in two of the three categories (NCs and winning %) you use as your sole criteria.
So, why do you have them behind Nebraska?
That was just the first team I checked. USC finished ahead of Nebraska in two of the three categories (NCs and winning %) you use as your sole criteria.
So, why do you have them behind Nebraska?
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Their domination covered a pretty good chunk of time, from 1869 until about 1920, which was when the Ivy League "type" teams were the dominant entity of CFB. Their dominance was against the same old teams, and in the really early days, we're talking anywhere from one to five game seasons.M Club wrote:i'm all for giving the ivys their due respect, but for how many years did they actually dominate? and what did that domination actually entail?
They were still pretty good for the next 40 or so years, but not nationally dominant - just good within the confines of the Ivy League which became irrelevant soon after it formed, and after teams like Notre Dame, Michigan, and USC happened. It appears on the rare occasion when they went outside the Ivy League and played someone nationally relevant like ND, they lost.
It's one thing to have a reign of national dominance come to an end, and skate on relative mediocrity for the rest of your program's existence. THAT might still call for a top 10 inclusion. But to completely fall of the map of the CFB world and no longer compete at the big boy level does not allow for a top 10 inclusion. Hell, even as a D1AA team they haven't been any good.
When talking about best of all time, you have to talk about teams that went from nothing to something, and then stayed there. Not teams that went from something to nothing, and will never be anything ever again.
Of course they've got more important things going on at Princeton, so I'm sure they don't mind too much.
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Really?M Club wrote:also, the weak-ooc phenomenon is relatively new. most teams have put their resumes together against conference schools, not in-state directionals.SoCalTrjn wrote:In Bowl Games a school isnt going to be playing vs the likes of Haskel Institute, Hillsdale, Illinois Cycling Club, Iowa Navy Pre-Flight....
If you don't understand that Bowl Winning Percentage and Bowl Wins is a MUCH more important stat than overall winning percentage and overall wins for determining a schools overall greatness, you're a fucking idiot.
so there, fucking idiot.
Adelbert, Adrian, Albion, American Medical, Ann Arbor High School, Beloit, Butler, Camp Grant, Carlisle Indian School, Carroll, Case Institute of Technology, Chicago, Chicago harvard Club, Denison, Depauw, Detroit, Detroit AC, Detroit Industrial Team, Grand Rapids High School, Great Lakes NTS, Hillsdale, Iowa Navy Pre Flight, Kalamazoo, Kenyon, Lake Forest, Lake Forest- Rush Medical, Lawrence, Marrieta, Marquette, Michigan AA, Michigan Almuni, Michigan Military Academy, Mount Union, Oberlin, Ohio Northern, Ohio Wesleyan, Olivet, Penninsular Club, Physicians and Surgeons, Quantico Marines, Racine, Toronto, Wabash, Windosr Club, Western Reserve and Wittenberg account for 144 of Michigans 872 wins
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Sweet jesus! Jackpot!!Adelbert, Adrian, Albion, American Medical, Ann Arbor High School, Beloit, Butler, Camp Grant, Carlisle Indian School, Carroll, Case Institute of Technology, Chicago, Chicago harvard Club, Denison, Depauw, Detroit, Detroit AC, Detroit Industrial Team, Grand Rapids High School, Great Lakes NTS, Hillsdale, Iowa Navy Pre Flight, Kalamazoo, Kenyon, Lake Forest, Lake Forest- Rush Medical, Lawrence, Marrieta, Marquette, Michigan AA, Michigan Almuni, Michigan Military Academy, Mount Union, Oberlin, Ohio Northern, Ohio Wesleyan, Olivet, Penninsular Club, Physicians and Surgeons, Quantico Marines, Racine, Toronto, Wabash, Windosr Club, Western Reserve and Wittenberg
Sin,
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
139 of USC wins were from:SoCalTrjn wrote:Really?M Club wrote:also, the weak-ooc phenomenon is relatively new. most teams have put their resumes together against conference schools, not in-state directionals.SoCalTrjn wrote:In Bowl Games a school isnt going to be playing vs the likes of Haskel Institute, Hillsdale, Illinois Cycling Club, Iowa Navy Pre-Flight....
If you don't understand that Bowl Winning Percentage and Bowl Wins is a MUCH more important stat than overall winning percentage and overall wins for determining a schools overall greatness, you're a fucking idiot.
so there, fucking idiot.
Adelbert, Adrian, Albion, American Medical, Ann Arbor High School, Beloit, Butler, Camp Grant, Carlisle Indian School, Carroll, Case Institute of Technology, Chicago, Chicago harvard Club, Denison, Depauw, Detroit, Detroit AC, Detroit Industrial Team, Grand Rapids High School, Great Lakes NTS, Hillsdale, Iowa Navy Pre Flight, Kalamazoo, Kenyon, Lake Forest, Lake Forest- Rush Medical, Lawrence, Marrieta, Marquette, Michigan AA, Michigan Almuni, Michigan Military Academy, Mount Union, Oberlin, Ohio Northern, Ohio Wesleyan, Olivet, Penninsular Club, Physicians and Surgeons, Quantico Marines, Racine, Toronto, Wabash, Windosr Club, Western Reserve and Wittenberg account for 144 of Michigans 872 wins
21st Infantry (CA)
Alliance AC (CA)
Arrowhead AC (CA)
Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo
California National Guard
California Tech
Carnegie Mellon (PA)
Chaffey CC (CA)
Chaffey HS (CA)
Chaw-sir Club
Denver (CO)
Fort MacArthur (CA)
Harvard HS (CA)
Kamehameha HS Alumni (HI)
Long Beach Poly HS (CA)
Los Angeles AC (CA)
Los Angeles HS (CA)
Los Angeles Poly HS (CA)
Loyola Marymount (CA)
March Field (CA)
Mare Island Marines (CA)
Memphis (TN)
Montana
Occidental (CA)
Olive Club
Orange AC (CA)
Pacific (CA)
Pasadena AC (CA)
Phoenix Indian School (AZ)
Pomona-Pitzer (CA)
Redlands (CA)
Saint Mary's (CA)
Saint Mary's Pre-Flight (CA)
San Diego HS (CA)
San Diego NTC (CA)
San Diego YMCA (CA)
San Francisco (CA)
San Pedro Submarine Base (CA)
Santa Ana HS (CA)
Santa Barbara AC (CA)
Santa Clara (CA)
Santa Fe AC (NM)
Sherman Indian School (CA)
Southern California Academy
Southern California Alumni
Southern California Prep School
Stanford Student Army Trg Corps (CA)
USS Arizona
USS Colorado
USS Mississippi
USS New York
Ventura Town Team (CA)
Whittier (CA)
Whittier Reform School
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Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Everybody played high schools and division 7 colleges back then. Who cares?
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
This is why I put VERY little stock in the importance of all time wins...or all time winning percentages...or pre late 60's national championships. This is why I struggle so much with Michigan. Take away their longevity related numbers and they simply haven't been all that dominant of a program.
Similarly if someone were to put together a listing of Princeton's and Yale's turn of the century opponents I'm sure it'd be an equally laughable group.
Total wins? They simply are an indicator that your program has existed a long time, without ever having completely fallen off the turnip truck.
Similarly if someone were to put together a listing of Princeton's and Yale's turn of the century opponents I'm sure it'd be an equally laughable group.
Total wins? They simply are an indicator that your program has existed a long time, without ever having completely fallen off the turnip truck.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
those games are only laughable because we're so myopic and they were played when those funny names were actual competition. i'm not enough of a football historian to know when students began to consider football programs as criterium for attending specific universities, but like i said before, all those seasons that count as a head start for michigan weren't seasons the way we understand them now. the football team then was probably nothing much more than the michigan rugby program is now. what, five practices a year and a regional tournament? the pro equivalent of your stance, van, would be to discount wins against franchises that have either folded or moved cities.
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Which is why Bowl Records and Winning Percentages shoul hold greater weight than regular Season records and Winning Percentages
Michigan Bowl History
Bowl Record: 19-20-0
W 01-01-1902 49 Stanford (CA) 0 Tournament of Roses Game
W 01-01-1948 49 Southern California 0 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1951 14 California 6 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1965 34 Oregon St. 7 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1970 3 Southern California 10 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1972 12 Stanford (CA) 13 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1976 6 Oklahoma 14 Orange Bowl
L 01-01-1977 6 Southern California 14 Rose Bowl
L 01-02-1978 20 Washington 27 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1979 10 Southern California 17 Rose Bowl
L 12-28-1979 15 North Carolina 17 Gator Bowl
W 01-01-1981 23 Washington 6 Rose Bowl
W 12-31-1981 33 UCLA 14 Bluebonnet Bowl
L 01-01-1983 14 UCLA 24 Rose Bowl
L 01-02-1984 7 Auburn (AL) 9 Sugar Bowl
L 12-21-1984 1 Brigham Young (UT) 24 Holiday Bowl
W 01-01-1986 27 Nebraska 23 Fiesta Bowl
L 01-01-1987 15 Arizona St. 22 Rose Bowl
W 01-02-1988 28 Alabama 24 Hall of Fame Bowl
W 01-02-1989 22 Southern California 14 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1990 10 Southern California 17 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1991 35 Mississippi 3 Gator Bowl
L 01-01-1992 14 Washington 34 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1993 38 Washington 31 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1994 42 North Carolina St. 7 Hall of Fame Bowl
W 12-30-1994 24 Colorado St. 14 Holiday Bowl
L 12-28-1995 20 Texas A&M 22 Alamo Bowl
L 01-01-1997 14 Alabama 17 Outback Bowl
W 01-01-1998 21 Washington St. 16 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1999 45 Arkansas 31 Florida Citrus Bowl
W 01-01-2000 35 Alabama 34 Orange Bowl
W 01-01-2001 31 Auburn (AL) 28 Florida Citrus Bowl
L 01-01-2002 17 Tennessee 45 Florida Citrus Bowl
W 01-01-2003 38 Florida 30 Outback Bowl
L 01-01-2004 14 Southern California 28 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-2005 37 Texas 38 Rose Bowl
L 12-28-2005 28 Nebraska 32 Alamo Bowl
L 01-01-2007 18 Southern California 32 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-2008 41 Florida 35 Capital One Bowl
USC Bowl History
Bowl Record: 31-16-0
W 01-01-1923 14 Penn St. 3 Tournament of Roses Game
W 12-25-1924 20 Missouri 7 Los Angeles Christmas Festival
W 01-01-1930 47 Pittsburgh (PA) 14 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1932 21 Tulane (LA) 12 Rose Bowl
W 01-02-1933 35 Pittsburgh (PA) 0 Rose Bowl
W 01-02-1939 7 Duke (NC) 3 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1940 14 Tennessee 0 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1944 29 Washington 0 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1945 25 Tennessee 0 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1946 14 Alabama 34 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1948 0 Michigan 49 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1953 7 Wisconsin 0 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1955 7 Ohio St. 20 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1963 49 Wisconsin 37 Rose Bowl
L 01-02-1967 13 Purdue (IN) 14 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1968 14 Indiana 3 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1969 16 Ohio St. 27 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1970 10 Michigan 3 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1973 42 Ohio St. 17 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1974 21 Ohio St. 42 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1975 18 Ohio St. 17 Rose Bowl
W 12-22-1975 20 Texas A&M 0 Liberty Bowl
W 01-01-1977 14 Michigan 6 Rose Bowl
W 12-31-1977 47 Texas A&M 28 Bluebonnet Bowl
W 01-01-1979 17 Michigan 10 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1980 17 Ohio St. 16 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1982 10 Penn St 26 Fiesta Bowl
W 01-01-1985 20 Ohio St. 17 Rose Bowl
L 12-28-1985 3 Alabama 24 Aloha Bowl
L 01-01-1987 14 Auburn (AL) 16 Florida Citrus Bowl
L 01-01-1988 17 Michigan St. 20 Rose Bowl
L 01-02-1989 14 Michigan 22 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1990 17 Michigan 10 Rose Bowl
L 12-31-1990 16 Michigan St. 17 Sun Bowl
L 12-29-1992 7 Fresno St. (CA) 24 Freedom Bowl
W 12-30-1993 28 Utah 21 Freedom Bowl
W 01-02-1995 55 Texas Tech 14 Cotton Bowl
W 01-01-1996 41 Northwestern (IL) 32 Rose Bowl
L 12-31-1998 19 Texas Christian 28 Sun Bowl
L 12-25-2001 6 Utah 10 Las Vegas Bowl
W 01-02-2003 38 Iowa 17 Orange Bowl
W 01-01-2004 28 Michigan 14 Rose Bowl
W 01-04-2005 55 Oklahoma 19 Orange Bowl
L 01-04-2006 38 Texas 41 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-2007 32 Michigan 18 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-2008 49 Illinois 17 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-2009 38 Penn St. 24 Rose Bowl
No patsies in Bowl Games
Thanks for making my point for me
Michigan Bowl History
Bowl Record: 19-20-0
W 01-01-1902 49 Stanford (CA) 0 Tournament of Roses Game
W 01-01-1948 49 Southern California 0 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1951 14 California 6 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1965 34 Oregon St. 7 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1970 3 Southern California 10 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1972 12 Stanford (CA) 13 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1976 6 Oklahoma 14 Orange Bowl
L 01-01-1977 6 Southern California 14 Rose Bowl
L 01-02-1978 20 Washington 27 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1979 10 Southern California 17 Rose Bowl
L 12-28-1979 15 North Carolina 17 Gator Bowl
W 01-01-1981 23 Washington 6 Rose Bowl
W 12-31-1981 33 UCLA 14 Bluebonnet Bowl
L 01-01-1983 14 UCLA 24 Rose Bowl
L 01-02-1984 7 Auburn (AL) 9 Sugar Bowl
L 12-21-1984 1 Brigham Young (UT) 24 Holiday Bowl
W 01-01-1986 27 Nebraska 23 Fiesta Bowl
L 01-01-1987 15 Arizona St. 22 Rose Bowl
W 01-02-1988 28 Alabama 24 Hall of Fame Bowl
W 01-02-1989 22 Southern California 14 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1990 10 Southern California 17 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1991 35 Mississippi 3 Gator Bowl
L 01-01-1992 14 Washington 34 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1993 38 Washington 31 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1994 42 North Carolina St. 7 Hall of Fame Bowl
W 12-30-1994 24 Colorado St. 14 Holiday Bowl
L 12-28-1995 20 Texas A&M 22 Alamo Bowl
L 01-01-1997 14 Alabama 17 Outback Bowl
W 01-01-1998 21 Washington St. 16 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1999 45 Arkansas 31 Florida Citrus Bowl
W 01-01-2000 35 Alabama 34 Orange Bowl
W 01-01-2001 31 Auburn (AL) 28 Florida Citrus Bowl
L 01-01-2002 17 Tennessee 45 Florida Citrus Bowl
W 01-01-2003 38 Florida 30 Outback Bowl
L 01-01-2004 14 Southern California 28 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-2005 37 Texas 38 Rose Bowl
L 12-28-2005 28 Nebraska 32 Alamo Bowl
L 01-01-2007 18 Southern California 32 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-2008 41 Florida 35 Capital One Bowl
USC Bowl History
Bowl Record: 31-16-0
W 01-01-1923 14 Penn St. 3 Tournament of Roses Game
W 12-25-1924 20 Missouri 7 Los Angeles Christmas Festival
W 01-01-1930 47 Pittsburgh (PA) 14 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1932 21 Tulane (LA) 12 Rose Bowl
W 01-02-1933 35 Pittsburgh (PA) 0 Rose Bowl
W 01-02-1939 7 Duke (NC) 3 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1940 14 Tennessee 0 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1944 29 Washington 0 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1945 25 Tennessee 0 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1946 14 Alabama 34 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1948 0 Michigan 49 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1953 7 Wisconsin 0 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1955 7 Ohio St. 20 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1963 49 Wisconsin 37 Rose Bowl
L 01-02-1967 13 Purdue (IN) 14 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1968 14 Indiana 3 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1969 16 Ohio St. 27 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1970 10 Michigan 3 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1973 42 Ohio St. 17 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1974 21 Ohio St. 42 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1975 18 Ohio St. 17 Rose Bowl
W 12-22-1975 20 Texas A&M 0 Liberty Bowl
W 01-01-1977 14 Michigan 6 Rose Bowl
W 12-31-1977 47 Texas A&M 28 Bluebonnet Bowl
W 01-01-1979 17 Michigan 10 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1980 17 Ohio St. 16 Rose Bowl
L 01-01-1982 10 Penn St 26 Fiesta Bowl
W 01-01-1985 20 Ohio St. 17 Rose Bowl
L 12-28-1985 3 Alabama 24 Aloha Bowl
L 01-01-1987 14 Auburn (AL) 16 Florida Citrus Bowl
L 01-01-1988 17 Michigan St. 20 Rose Bowl
L 01-02-1989 14 Michigan 22 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-1990 17 Michigan 10 Rose Bowl
L 12-31-1990 16 Michigan St. 17 Sun Bowl
L 12-29-1992 7 Fresno St. (CA) 24 Freedom Bowl
W 12-30-1993 28 Utah 21 Freedom Bowl
W 01-02-1995 55 Texas Tech 14 Cotton Bowl
W 01-01-1996 41 Northwestern (IL) 32 Rose Bowl
L 12-31-1998 19 Texas Christian 28 Sun Bowl
L 12-25-2001 6 Utah 10 Las Vegas Bowl
W 01-02-2003 38 Iowa 17 Orange Bowl
W 01-01-2004 28 Michigan 14 Rose Bowl
W 01-04-2005 55 Oklahoma 19 Orange Bowl
L 01-04-2006 38 Texas 41 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-2007 32 Michigan 18 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-2008 49 Illinois 17 Rose Bowl
W 01-01-2009 38 Penn St. 24 Rose Bowl
No patsies in Bowl Games
Thanks for making my point for me
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Here is a pretty good list...
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/ra ... nkings.php
http://www.cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/ra ... nkings.php
TheJON wrote:What does the winner get? Because if it's a handjob from Frisco, I'd like to campaign for my victory.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
With 3 of those championships coming with probations. I'm still ok with Oklahoma being ranked ahead of Texas if we only look at what happened on the field. I don't, I look at what it took for teams like Oklahoma to get that success. I think to be weighed fairly you should be seriously docked for cheating you ass off.King Crimson wrote:Texas did go 35 years without a MNC, roughly half of the "modern era". in that same time frame, OU won 4.Van wrote:Sure seems like the consensus here is that OU should be above Texas.
the second part is kind of a homer post, i admit.
M Club wrote:I've seen Phantom Holding Calls ruin a 7-5 team's undefeated season.
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Iowa Navy Pre Flight was a powerhouse back in the day and dont even get me started on what Kalamazoo would do to the 1995 Cornhuskers.SoCalTrjn wrote:Really?M Club wrote:also, the weak-ooc phenomenon is relatively new. most teams have put their resumes together against conference schools, not in-state directionals.SoCalTrjn wrote:In Bowl Games a school isnt going to be playing vs the likes of Haskel Institute, Hillsdale, Illinois Cycling Club, Iowa Navy Pre-Flight....
If you don't understand that Bowl Winning Percentage and Bowl Wins is a MUCH more important stat than overall winning percentage and overall wins for determining a schools overall greatness, you're a fucking idiot.
so there, fucking idiot.
Adelbert, Adrian, Albion, American Medical, Ann Arbor High School, Beloit, Butler, Camp Grant, Carlisle Indian School, Carroll, Case Institute of Technology, Chicago, Chicago harvard Club, Denison, Depauw, Detroit, Detroit AC, Detroit Industrial Team, Grand Rapids High School, Great Lakes NTS, Hillsdale, Iowa Navy Pre Flight, Kalamazoo, Kenyon, Lake Forest, Lake Forest- Rush Medical, Lawrence, Marrieta, Marquette, Michigan AA, Michigan Almuni, Michigan Military Academy, Mount Union, Oberlin, Ohio Northern, Ohio Wesleyan, Olivet, Penninsular Club, Physicians and Surgeons, Quantico Marines, Racine, Toronto, Wabash, Windosr Club, Western Reserve and Wittenberg account for 144 of Michigans 872 wins
Michigan Alumni counts? Does the annual Blue-Gold game go down as a win for Michigan?
TheJON wrote:What does the winner get? Because if it's a handjob from Frisco, I'd like to campaign for my victory.
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
If you aint cheating, you aint trying.Vito Corleone wrote: I think to be weighed fairly you should be seriously docked for cheating you ass off.
Sin,
Van wrote: #1-Notre Dame
#2-Michigan
#3-Texas
#4-USC
#5-Alabama
#6-Oklahoma
#7-Nebraska
#8-Ohio St
#9-Penn St
#10-Miami
TheJON wrote:What does the winner get? Because if it's a handjob from Frisco, I'd like to campaign for my victory.
Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
what point is that? hasn't bc won 100 straight bowl games? they're not in your top ten, are they, nor are they gaining steam.SoCalTrjn wrote: Thanks for making my point for me
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
When you consider that for a very long time, all universities viewed the bowl season and games as exibition, I'm not sure if you should have them carry as much weight as you want.SoCalTrjn wrote:In Bowl Games a school isnt going to be playing vs the likes of Haskel Institute, Hillsdale, Illinois Cycling Club, Iowa Navy Pre-Flight....
If you don't understand that Bowl Winning Percentage and Bowl Wins is a MUCH more important stat than overall winning percentage and overall wins for determining a schools overall greatness, you're a fucking idiot.
And Mgo, ND elected not to go to bowl games for over 40 years, which included some of their best teams.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
This argument is getting away from the original point and turning into a pissing match of who has played worse teams.
For all of you that brought up those teams, take a look at when those teams fucking played them. It was at the turn of the century when teams didn't/couldn't travel cross country to play teams. We always knew the south was behind the times, so they are just getting caught up. While most of those teams played the funny named teams at the turn of the 20th century, the SEC is doing it at the turn of the 21st.
And before anyone makes anymore jokes at the expense of Iowa Pre-Flight, you might want to see how those teams fared in the late 40's.
For all of you that brought up those teams, take a look at when those teams fucking played them. It was at the turn of the century when teams didn't/couldn't travel cross country to play teams. We always knew the south was behind the times, so they are just getting caught up. While most of those teams played the funny named teams at the turn of the 20th century, the SEC is doing it at the turn of the 21st.
And before anyone makes anymore jokes at the expense of Iowa Pre-Flight, you might want to see how those teams fared in the late 40's.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
none of which changes the fact that UT didn't win a MNC for 35 years. And needless to say, UT's been cited/probation for major infractions 3 times since 1965. so, let's not play the innocence and virtue angle. The only people who don't think UT cheated as much as everyone else in the SWC are Texas fans.Vito Corleone wrote:With 3 of those championships coming with probations. I'm still ok with Oklahoma being ranked ahead of Texas if we only look at what happened on the field. I don't, I look at what it took for teams like Oklahoma to get that success. I think to be weighed fairly you should be seriously docked for cheating you ass off.King Crimson wrote:Texas did go 35 years without a MNC, roughly half of the "modern era". in that same time frame, OU won 4.Van wrote:Sure seems like the consensus here is that OU should be above Texas.
the second part is kind of a homer post, i admit.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Killian wrote:When you consider that for a very long time, all universities viewed the bowl season and games as exibition, I'm not sure if you should have them carry as much weight as you want.SoCalTrjn wrote:In Bowl Games a school isnt going to be playing vs the likes of Haskel Institute, Hillsdale, Illinois Cycling Club, Iowa Navy Pre-Flight....
If you don't understand that Bowl Winning Percentage and Bowl Wins is a MUCH more important stat than overall winning percentage and overall wins for determining a schools overall greatness, you're a fucking idiot.
And Mgo, ND elected not to go to bowl games for over 40 years, which included some of their best teams.
additionally, is a win (or quality of opponent) in the Las Vegas or Poulon Weedeater Bowl better than a loss in the Rose Bowl? winning % says it is.
Last edited by King Crimson on Fri Feb 13, 2009 12:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Look at the bowl resumes of the teams we're talking about here. You'll find that they're not littered with Weedeater and Las Vegas bowls.additionally, is a win in the Las Vegas or Poulon Weedeater Bowl better than a loss in the Rose Bowl? winning % says it is.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
perhaps i overstate for effect, but given the vagaries and lack of consistent criteria the bowl system offers over the decades i don't really see that bowl winning % is the stat that subordinates others.MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Look at the bowl resumes of the teams we're talking about here. You'll find that they're not littered with Weedeater and Las Vegas bowls.additionally, is a win in the Las Vegas or Poulon Weedeater Bowl better than a loss in the Rose Bowl? winning % says it is.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
I only brought up USC's record against no name teams because schmuck used the argument against Michigan saying 144 of their wins came from those teams while USC has 139 wins against no name teams as well.Killian wrote:This argument is getting away from the original point and turning into a pissing match of who has played worse teams.
For all of you that brought up those teams, take a look at when those teams fucking played them.
Hell, A&M's first credited win was against Galveston High School I believe. I know we all played shit teams way back when.
Goober McTuber wrote:One last post...
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
The way the Ags play lately Galveston High might be favored if they played next year.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
If I remember the Ags have won the same 2/3 just like Texas has done to OU :D
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Reading between the lines a little here, I think WWII had just a little something to do with all of this as well. A lot of college students were being drafted in WWII. Iowa Pre-Flight, in all likelihood, wound up with a few fair-to-middling college football players, so they were able to put together a competitive team during the time you mentioned.Killian wrote:This argument is getting away from the original point and turning into a pissing match of who has played worse teams.
For all of you that brought up those teams, take a look at when those teams fucking played them. It was at the turn of the century when teams didn't/couldn't travel cross country to play teams. We always knew the south was behind the times, so they are just getting caught up. While most of those teams played the funny named teams at the turn of the 20th century, the SEC is doing it at the turn of the 21st.
And before anyone makes anymore jokes at the expense of Iowa Pre-Flight, you might want to see how those teams fared in the late 40's.
Also, looking at the ND-USC series, I note that 1945 was the last time those teams skipped a year against each other. I don't know this for sure, but it wouldn't surprise me if the federal government asked some schools to cut back their travel for college athletics in the name of national security during WWII. Of course, WWII ended a few months before the ND-USC game would've been played, but since these games are scheduled in advance, not far enough in advance to get the game back on the schedule.
Exactly. Hell, even today you can make a case that every bowl game except one is little more than a glorified exhibition game anyway.Killian wrote:When you consider that for a very long time, all universities viewed the bowl season and games as exibition, I'm not sure if you should have them carry as much weight as you want.SoCalTrjn wrote:In Bowl Games a school isnt going to be playing vs the likes of Haskel Institute, Hillsdale, Illinois Cycling Club, Iowa Navy Pre-Flight....
If you don't understand that Bowl Winning Percentage and Bowl Wins is a MUCH more important stat than overall winning percentage and overall wins for determining a schools overall greatness, you're a fucking idiot.
And Mgo, ND elected not to go to bowl games for over 40 years, which included some of their best teams.
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Re: Why the hell not? All time best CF programs...
Van for "comeback poster of the year".
This thread is hilarious though. I get that it's the off season and any readable thread in these months is worthwhile, but all time lists? This shit is so subjective and in the eye of the beholder. As some have shown on here, many teams can lay claim to supremecy when the right criteria to support their claim is used. Hell I even agree with spray in this thread. He's the only one willing to stick to the "All Time" portion of the arguement. All Time, in other words, since man began playing the fucking sport. Few teams have been playing longer than Michigan, why that should count against them is beyond me. Aside from some down years in the late 50's early 60's Michigan has been a top program (understand the meaning of program here) since the last turn of the century. You can laugh at some of the team names from the early quarter of the 1900's but those funny named schools had football programs, did yours? Read some history boys, Minnesota was a powerhouse, Navy, the aforementioned Ivy's, many teams not named Florida, Texas, Alabama, etc. were the best of the best in their heyday. Just because your team wasn't around, or worth a shit if they were, doesn't mean those years didn't happen. So the game has changed, we had to crawl before we could walk, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Henry Ford had the Model T way before the Mustang, but the 'stang would not have been possible without the "T". When Michigan began dominating the Football landscape there was no forward pass, the scoring was different, the gridiron was a gridiron, there was no NFL to leave early for, there were no scholorships, there were no helmets leather or otherwise, lettermen wore sweaters. In those days people drove their horseless carriages or took the train out to a farm town called Ann Arbor to watch Michigan square off with teams like Chicago (a powerhouse of the day) on Ferry Field. They came out by the hundreds. It's because of those early years that the sport exists as we know it today.
We were here...

where was your team?
This thread is hilarious though. I get that it's the off season and any readable thread in these months is worthwhile, but all time lists? This shit is so subjective and in the eye of the beholder. As some have shown on here, many teams can lay claim to supremecy when the right criteria to support their claim is used. Hell I even agree with spray in this thread. He's the only one willing to stick to the "All Time" portion of the arguement. All Time, in other words, since man began playing the fucking sport. Few teams have been playing longer than Michigan, why that should count against them is beyond me. Aside from some down years in the late 50's early 60's Michigan has been a top program (understand the meaning of program here) since the last turn of the century. You can laugh at some of the team names from the early quarter of the 1900's but those funny named schools had football programs, did yours? Read some history boys, Minnesota was a powerhouse, Navy, the aforementioned Ivy's, many teams not named Florida, Texas, Alabama, etc. were the best of the best in their heyday. Just because your team wasn't around, or worth a shit if they were, doesn't mean those years didn't happen. So the game has changed, we had to crawl before we could walk, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Henry Ford had the Model T way before the Mustang, but the 'stang would not have been possible without the "T". When Michigan began dominating the Football landscape there was no forward pass, the scoring was different, the gridiron was a gridiron, there was no NFL to leave early for, there were no scholorships, there were no helmets leather or otherwise, lettermen wore sweaters. In those days people drove their horseless carriages or took the train out to a farm town called Ann Arbor to watch Michigan square off with teams like Chicago (a powerhouse of the day) on Ferry Field. They came out by the hundreds. It's because of those early years that the sport exists as we know it today.
We were here...

where was your team?
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-John Heisman
"Any street urchin can shout applause in victory, but it takes character to stand fast in defeat. One is noise --- the other, loyalty." Fielding Yost
Go Blue!