This just in -- Barry is a useless piece of shit

[Tom In VA]

Nice. RACK it.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Thanks buddy.

[Tom In VA]

Well one thing for sure, if they're found NOT GUILTY, Holder has the recourse of a CIVIL TRIAL.

They might walk free but they'll owe a ton of money as they help LTS find the MOSSAD operatives that actually did the crime.

If we're lucky, they'll try to steal some ancient MOHAMMED memorabilia in Las Vegas at gun point, and get sent to jail the right way.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Maybe you guys are right. This trial could tear the social fabric of your great nation apart...

[Tom In VA]

You're on a roll dude. What else you got in the hopper ?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

You're on a roll dude. What else you got in the hopper ?

The tank's pretty much dry at this point pal.

[OCmike]

Coupla things here:
My experience with military justice is that you better have video of someone else doing the crime or you're fucked.

What bullshit. Go fuck yourself, handwringer.

?? I was unaware that you were there, dude. Small world.

Torturing them at Gitmo

Nobody was tortured at Gitmo, you ignorant dipshit.

Dunno. I thought the same thing at first, but when I read a report that said guards blasted "Do That To Me One More Time" by Captain & Tennille for 36 hours straight, that totally crossed the line.


RACK Marty x 6 in this thread.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Okay, one more...

Disorder in the court!



"Don't tase me, 'roo!"

[Diogenes]

Still no thoughts on the validity of this shit?

...the charges against the defendants were only defined as "crimes" after they were committed and that therefore the trial was invalid as a form of "victors' justice".

Chief Justice of the United States Harlan Fiske Stone called the Nuremberg trials a fraud. "(Chief US prosecutor) Jackson is away conducting his high-grade lynching party in Nuremberg," he wrote. "I don't mind what he does to the Nazis, but I hate to see the pretense that he is running a court and proceeding according to common law. This is a little too sanctimonious a fraud to meet my old-fashioned ideas."
Associate Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas charged that the Allies were guilty of "substituting power for principle" at Nuremberg. "I thought at the time and still think that the Nuremberg trials were unprincipled," he wrote. "Law was created ex post facto to suit the passion and clamor of the time."
The validity of the court has been questioned for a variety of reasons:



One of the charges, brought against Keitel, Jodl, and Ribbentrop included conspiracy to commit aggression against Poland in 1939. The Secret Protocols of the German-Soviet Non-Aggression Pact of 23 August 1939, proposed the partition of Poland between the Germans and the Soviets (which was subsequently executed in September 1939); however, Soviet leaders were not tried for being part of the same conspiracy. Instead, the Tribunal falsely proclaimed the Secret Protocols of the Non-Aggression Pact to be a forgery. Moreover, Allied Powers Britain and Soviet Union were not tried for preparing and conducting the Anglo-Soviet invasion of Iran and the Winter War, respectively.

In 1915, the Allied Powers, Britain, France, and Russia, jointly issued a statement explicitly charging, for the first time, another government (the Sublime Porte) of committing "a crime against humanity". However it was not until the phrase was further developed in the London Charter that it had a specific meaning. As the London Charter definition of what constituted a crime against humanity was unknown when many of the crimes were committed, it could be argued to be a retrospective law, in violation of the principles of prohibition of ex post facto laws and the general principle of penal law nullum crimen, nulla poena sine praevia lege poenali.

The court agreed to relieve the Soviet leadership from attending these trials as war criminals in order to hide their crimes against war civilians, crimes that were committed by their army that included "carving up Poland in 1939 and attacking Finland three months later." This "exclusion request" was initiated by the Russians and subsequently approved by the court's administration.

The trials were conducted under their own rules of evidence; the indictments were created ex post facto and were not based on any nation's law; the tu quoque defense was removed; and some claim the entire spirit of the assembly was "victor's justice".The Charter of the International Military Tribunal permitted the use of normally inadmissible "evidence". Article 19 specified that "The Tribunal shall not be bound by technical rules of evidence... and shall admit any evidence which it deems to have probative value". Article 21 of the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal (IMT) Charter stipulated:
"The Tribunal shall not require proof of facts of common knowledge but shall take judicial notice thereof. It shall also take judicial notice of official governmental documents and reports of the United [Allied] Nations, including acts and documents of the committees set up in the various allied countries for the investigation of war crimes, and the records and findings of military and other Tribunals of any of the United [Allied] Nations"

The chief Soviet prosecutor submitted false documentation in an attempt to indict defendants for the murder of thousands of Polish officers in the Katyn forest near Smolensk. However, the other Allied prosecutors refused to support the indictment and German lawyers promised to mount an embarrassing defense. No one was charged or found guilty at Nuremberg for the Katyn Forest massacre.[47] In 1990, the Soviet government acknowledged that the Katyn massacre was carried out, not by the Germans, but by the Soviet secret police.

Freda Utley, in her 1949 book "The High Cost of Vengeance" charged the court with amongst other things double standards. She pointed to the Allied use of civilian forced labor, and deliberate starvation of civilians in the occupied territories. She also noted that General Rudenko, the chief Soviet prosecutor, after the trials became commandant of the Sachsenhausen concentration camp. (After the fall of East Germany the bodies of 12,500 Soviet era victims were uncovered at the camp, mainly "children, adolescents and elderly people.")

[KC Scott]

We need to Fry some towelheads for 9-11. Doesn't really matter which ones, or how we try 'em to get 'em to the gurney.

and have no doubt - there's only one way any trial, military or Civilian will end

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

We need to Fry some towelheads for 9-11. Doesn't really matter which ones, or how we try 'em to get 'em to the gurney.

Fry towel heads on a gurney?

Unconventional, but...could work.

[KC Scott]

Fry towel heads on a gurney?

Unconventional, but...could work.

You and your semantics......

Although I do think Capital Punishment should be much more Spectacular.

*Que Rumplejoke in 5, 4, 3... *

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

[OCmike]

Where?

Navy. San Diego.

You are far more likely get a fair trial there than in any civilian court.

True, but you can get over in civilian court just by having lots of cash.

BTW, I don't know about the Army, but Navy NJP and CMs are very political. By that I meant for servicemen. That's probably a better option than NYC "Night Court" though.

[poptart]

We need to Fry some towelheads for 9-11. Doesn't really matter which ones, or how we try 'em to get 'em to the gurney.

and have no doubt - there's only one way any trial, military or Civilian will end

Even if we want to assume that the outcome is given, one which I, having seen TOO many strange things happen in our court system, wouldn't bet a lot on, we are in danger of a LOT of damage being done through the process of civilian court for 9/11 terrorists.

Mark those words and wait and see.

This is not good.

No surprise Barry is all over something not good for America.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Even if we want to assume that the outcome is given, one which I, having seen TOO many strange things happen in our court system, wouldn't bet a lot on, we are in danger of a LOT of damage being done through the process of civilian court for 9/11 terrorists.

Okay, we get it already. You're afraid.


Game , set, match = AQ

[poptart]

Don't you have a country to worry about?

No matter how fucked America is, it will always look back and see Canaduh firmly attached to it's hind tit.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Don't you have a country to worry about?

No matter how fucked America is, it will always look back and see Canaduh firmly attached to it's hind tit.

I don't give a shit about Canada.

I see where your allegiances lie. I guess even you put flag before God.

[LTS TRN 2]

Torturing them at Gitmo

Nobody was tortured at Gitmo, you ignorant dipshit.

This guy just slipped in the shower? I'm sure his statements are clear and reliable...


And this guy is just being unsociable, not joining in the glee club rehearsal....


And this guy is just abusing the "field weight loss program" offered at our taxpayer expense


Why do we even provide these guys with inversion racks? All they do is hang around and manipulate the liberal media!


Sure, allowing these prisoners a "performance art night" at Gitmo seemed like a good idea...until the artsy-fartsy expressionism wave came along..sheesh!

BULLSHIT, AVI!!

They're all Gitmo alumni, and if there are lots of guys who were redacted into some hidden hell, they're represented.

Look, the "confessions" of some kidnapped and tortured suspect--like a "confession" out of the Soviet Union in 1933--is worthless and invalid in a court of law.

And this is why M-fake is faking some jokes. A "Kangaroo court" suggests the accused will be railroaded through to a quick conviction.

But...if anything, the Ziowads are panting anxiously at the prospect of the neocon insanity and its barbaric antics coming out--in good ol' Ron Kuby fashion.

"And then they strangled my client with a web of soiled tampons..while mimicking the call to prayers..."



Saddle up...this could be fun!

[JMak]

I think you miss my point. I think that these guys should be put on trial to protect me and you. It bothers me (but doesn't surprise me) that Barry hasn't repealed any of the expansion of Prez powers that Bush put into place. I'm not normally a tinfoil hat wearer, but there's waaaaaaaaay too much power in DC right now, especially with the leftest lefty EVER currently in the big house.

It will suck and it will be a circus, but this is the US-fucking-A and we put people on trial in this country. Even if they are public pissers, serial killers, or mass murderers, we have to prove that they did what we say they did.

I wonder why you think putting terrorists on trial will protect you and me? And since when do we prosecute war criminals in civilian court? I mean, before the merry band of leftists got control of the White House?

How does the prosecution overcome that these guys were not grabbed with court orders in hand, not mirandized, will be compelled in open court to reveal sources and techniques, etc., etc., et-fucking-cetera?

Well? How does that work exactly?

[KC Scott]

Because he's an idiot. Personally, I will be stunned if they don't walk.

You're kidding right? They fried McVeigh and the DC Sniper just went down last week.

These high profile / terror cases have only one conclusion - and OJ doesn't qualify under that scenario

[Mikey]

Because he's an idiot. Personally, I will be stunned if they don't walk.

You're kidding right? They fried McVeigh and the DC Sniper just went down last week.

These high profile / terror cases have only one conclusion - and OJ doesn't qualify under that scenario

Because Barry O'Muslim is actually a terrorist sympathizer who just wants to impress the world with how much he really hates America.

Tell me you knew.

[Tom In VA]

Because Barry O'Muslim is actually a terrorist sympathizer who just wants to impress the world with how much he really hates America.

Tell me you knew.

Well of course that's an absurd extreme. No Barry is a approaching the "issue" differently. His approach is "kindness", but you see the Islamofacists mistake kindness for weakness, hence the terrorist attacks throughout the 70's, 80's and 90's leading up to 9-11 and beyond.

So, if we need to throw the weight of the US around on behalf of a UN that hides behind Lady Liberty's skirt and tugs at it as we go about their dirty work, we should throw it DECISIVELY and not fuck around.

Because Islamofacists mistake kindness for weakness. There's a cultural divide here. What we view as "just" they view as "just a joke".

[Sirfindafold]

Because Barry O'Muslim is actually a terrorist sympathizer who just wants to impress the world with how much he really hates America.

There's hope for you.

[LTS TRN 2]

Tom, explain how invading Iraq and destroying it on a scheme of lies and fear-mongering somehow represents a policy of "kindness" over weakness. And explain how our our similar wanton slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan for eight years is somehow showing "weakness." Oh, sure you could point out that our desperate constitution-gutting lurch to fascism in America is obviously a sign of weakness. That's true. And the fact that our government is basically controlled by the likes of this criminal is a certainly a sign of great weakness..



WW

[Tom In VA]

Tom, explain how invading Iraq and destroying it on a scheme of lies and fear-mongering somehow represents a policy of "kindness" over weakness. And explain how our our similar wanton slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan for eight years is somehow showing "weakness." Oh, sure you could point out that our desperate constitution-gutting lurch to fascism in America is obviously a sign of weakness. That's true. And the fact that our government is basically controlled by the likes of this criminal is a certainly a sign of great weakness..

Not surprisingly, you totally missed the point. The question is, do you do it on purpose or is it something based on diet or genetics ?

[Sirfindafold]

And explain how our our similar wanton slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan.....

Afghanistan. Civility?

You're a fuckin' jerkoff.

[LTS TRN 2]

Tom, explain how invading Iraq and destroying it on a scheme of lies and fear-mongering somehow represents a policy of "kindness" over weakness. And explain how our our similar wanton slaughter of civilians in Afghanistan for eight years is somehow showing "weakness." Oh, sure you could point out that our desperate constitution-gutting lurch to fascism in America is obviously a sign of weakness. That's true. And the fact that our government is basically controlled by the likes of this criminal is a certainly a sign of great weakness..

Not surprisingly, you totally missed the point. The question is, do you do it on purpose or is it something based on diet or genetics ?

What point? That we should be even less "kind" to the "terrorists"? Are you on a doctor approved plan of medication? Explain what you mean by America being less kind. Go ahead, what have you got in mind? Let's hear some actual examples instead of the trite lingo (i.e., "hiding behind the skirts of lady liberty"????).

If a years-long policy of (illegal) kidnappings and redacted torture chambers hasn't worked, what will? What are you really talking about?

[Tom In VA]

What point?

The one that you refuse to acknowledge or are incapable of acknowledging. That point is, I'll try again, that while the rest of the world has evolved in terms of their treatement of women, criminals, children, and goats; the people whose nutsack to which you have your lips firmly attached have not, will not, and will fight to the death before they join the 21st century.

Their notions of "justice" is entirely different from Western Civilization's. They perceive gestures of mercy/justice as weakness. They would have had more respect for the U.S. if we were to drag the terrorists out into FedEx Field or better yet, Madison Square Garden and killed them. To them that's justice. Anything else is child's play.

If, the U.S. MUST be engaged in that region we either need to play hardball or not play at all and leave. Nothing else will work.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

...while the rest of the world has evolved in terms of their treatement of women, criminals, children, and goats;...

That concept is known as "liberalism".

Something that Republicans, Al Queda and myself equally loathe.

[poptart]

On top of all of that, it will be BUSH's FAULT when they are released because he didn't follow the rule of law from the beginning.

See where lawlessness gets you?




:wink:

[LTS TRN 2]

Basically true, both of you.

First, Avi's right that the case is total bullshit. Even though the guy has "confessed," we know that it was a result of continuous torture (the sort that would make any of us confess as well to anything), and he's already said as much--that he lied to the CIA because of the torture. So, indeed the case against him won't stand--unless the jury is a bunch of New York Jews, etc.

And P-tart is right in that of course the whole stinking treasonous mess of the New Pearl Harbor--and everything that's come since--is directly the fault of the Chimp (and his PNAC handlers, etc.)

WW

[smackaholic]

You neglected to mention the fact that he is undeniably guilty. Or are you attempting to suggest that KSM is not a high ranking member of AQ who was deeply involved in planning the 9/11 attacks and was just some poor schlub grabbed off the street?

he couldn't possibly be guilty. He's not jewish.

[Tom In VA]

Of course he was picked up
off the street. Latest word on KSM is he's some drunk arrested for impersonating Ron Jeremy.

[OCmike]

I suppose you and the Mikes can be excused for not thinking this thing through...

Excellent! The three of us appreciate the group recognition, as it's really a team effort.

I have thought this through. I just don't agree with you. Clearly you're not even taking into account that a judge decides what is/is not admissable in court. If he was arrested by Pakis, why do you think that charges will be dismissed based on him not being Mirandized? Best to leave the fear-mongering alarmist comments to the dems. They've had much more practice that you have.

[JMak]

If he was arrested by Pakis, why do you think that charges will be dismissed based on him not being Mirandized?

He was arrested by the Pakis, but has been in our custody for quite some time and there's a lot more to it than not being Mirandized. Even a tard like Moving Fail could get this weak shit tossed without breaking a sweat.

You don't try scum like this in a court of law. If he has no further use to us, then stand him against a wall and shoot him.

Gets it! End of story.



I'm not sure what the problem here is. Why do people like OCMike believe that trying KSM in civilian court will proect us? Why do people believe that trying KSM in civilian court will make up for the hard feelings felt by France, Germany, et al for taking down their favorite ME tyrant?

Seriously, what's the benefit here?

Meanwhile, in the real world...are we now going to drag soldiers in from the battlefield to be deposed or to appear in court to discuss how they found some terrorist? CIA officers going to be testifying as to who their contact(s) was and how this contact got him information? This is soon to be a civilian trial where a terrorist will have the same protections and rights as any ordinary civilian. Does that not appear to be absurd on its face? To anyone?

[OCmike]

JMak, I am agreeing with the concept of an open trial because we don't arrest people in this country, not charge them or try them, and jail them forever. That's arcane Sharia bullshit.

Having fair trials protects the same from happening to you. Don't think it could happen? How quickly did Bush shift gears on the wiretapping bill to include domestic spying?

All of the Lefties should also be asking why Champ Change hasn't repealed any of the expansion of powers Bush put in place to monitor Americans.

Take a look at what's going on in England right now. We're right on their heels.

[JMak]

JMak, I am agreeing with the concept of an open trial because we don't arrest people in this country, not charge them or try them, and jail them forever. That's arcane Sharia bullshit.

He wasn't arrested in this country. Next?

And nice strawman you're relying here. No one is arguing that we should arrest people in the US, not charge them, and then detain them forever.

Having fair trials protects the same from happening to you. Don't think it could happen? How quickly did Bush shift gears on the wiretapping bill to include domestic spying?

I am in no danger of being apprehended in Pakistan. Neither are you. Hence, this nonsense does nothing to protect us from anything at all.

Additionally, despite KSM and the others being brought to NYC for trial, Obama is still pursuing the military tribunal path.

And how quickly did Bush shift gears? I'd like to see your explanation.

All of the Lefties should also be asking why Champ Change hasn't repealed any of the expansion of powers Bush put in place to monitor Americans.

What expansion? Specifics, please.

Take a look at what's going on in England right now. We're right on their heels.

Yeah, we're sliding down that slope to subordinating ourselves to the personal feelings of the always-aggreieved Muslim folks that riot when Mohammed is depicted in a cartoon, who commit honor killings here in the US, and stone young girls for the privilege of being gang-raped all over the ME.

Please stop. You're embarrassing yourself.

[LTS TRN 2]

Weasel, cut the tripe. The Chimp n' Cheney (Haddington, actually) basically shredded the constitution in the fear-mongered romp to keep everyone on edge. That's what New Pearl Harbor is all about. As for the basic validity of a fair trial...what's your question again?

Look, if we've got some credible evidence against this guy, let's show the world that we're actually what we say we are. If, however, all we've got are the bulging -eyed screams of a man being tortured to death...well, then we're being bullshitted once again.

As to whether the Ron Jeremy look-alike was actually involved...maybe...any evidence?

What we do know is that many, if not most, of the suspects picked up in Pakistan and Afghanistan were simply turned in for a fat bounty. It's a disgrace to proclaim America as a bastion of freedom and human rights while acting like the Soviets, circa 1951.

[OCmike]

Good God and G0d, Jmak...WTF was that? It's like someone took meth, Bsmack's arguing style and mvscal's politics, jammed them in Pain's cooch and another retarded kid shlorped out. Now all you need is a fucked up name. How bout "Tweek"?

Listen, Tweek, I don't do the Strawman thing. I just say what I think.

No, I won't explain things that are obvious and/or common knowledge. You're clearly one of those tools that just enjoys semantics battles and circular arguing. So bring something to the table or go fuck yourself.

Oh, and I was commenting on the level of public surveillance in England. Of course, you would have noticed that if you'd turn off the "auto-tool" feature on your frontal lobe.