T1B

Goober McTuber wrote:

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:Dignity? Have you actually watched Wisconsin play the game of basketball? Just watch Bohannon lunge himself to the floor after his wrist gets grazed on a 3 point shot.

He got fouled!!

The call was weak as shit. Even if it was a foul, the point is, how weak do you have to be to thud to the floor like an anvil after getting your freaking wrist bumped? Come the fuck on.

I think they were mostly walk-ons.

Wisky brings in a good deal of top 100 talent, especially at the guard positions. Harris, Tucker, Hughes, etc. It's an overblown myth created to justify your underwhelming post season performances.

At least you not only accept, but seem to encourage and embrace your mediocrity. So you've got that going for you.

I disagree. Occasionally they get a top 50 player, but nothing like what the whining midget has to pick from. Bo’s teams typically overachieve during the regular season, then come back to earth in the tournament. And sooner or later he'll figure out how to quit offering schollies to big white stiffs.

Goober McTuber wrote:big white stiffs

That's all you got in what passes off as God's Country, remember?

Goober McTuber wrote:I disagree. Occasionally they get a top 50 player, but nothing like what the whining midget has to pick from. Bo’s teams typically overachieve during the regular season, then come back to earth in the tournament. And sooner or later he'll figure out how to quit offering schollies to big white stiffs.

Over the course of his career, Izzo hasn't done it with elite level talent. Just like you'd argue for Bo, I'd argue that Izzo has done it with physical, tough, four-year players who bought into his system. Up until the last couple seasons, and particularly next year's class, MSU was hardly known for their recruiting prowess, at least as it relates to Scout and Rivals rankings. Drew Naymick, Maurice Ager, Drew Neitzel, Chris Hill, Charlie Bell, Goran Suton, Travis Walton -the list goes on and on...most of their key components that led to Final 4 teams were not McDonald's All American type players. Far from it. Hell, in fact, many of their big name recruits have been borderline busts. Kelvin Torbert, Marquise Gray, and Tom Herzog, just to name a few. I will agree that Wisky has overachieved to some degree, at least in conference, but when talking success relative to talent, MSU has been on a higher plane.

I don't think Wisky struggles for talent. You pulled Hughes out of Queens, NY fer cryin out loud. A) Bo Ryan goes out and gets the kids that fit into his system regardless of what they're rated and B) he's always had very good perimeter shooters, ball handlers, and scorers. It's the lack of a dominant low post man that has seemed to elude him.

I would argue that MSU consistently pulls better talent that Wisconsin. You have a much better in-state base to draw from. I don’t know where Hughes was ranked coming in, I didn’t think it was that high, but that’s only one player. The other thing working against Bo in terms of recruiting talent is that he won’t go after guys with obvious character issues (see Jeronne Maymon).


Oh look, Screwball, a big white stiff reference. Gotta respect a guy who loves his job.

Desperately hoping Minny can knock off Purdue tonight. They're pretty gritty at home and have got a puncher's chance, especially if they play the way they did against Wisconsin a couple games ago. Hoffarber will need to get crazy from 3 land.

Fuck Minny for choking that one away. Hummel could be done for the year, that was a nasty injury. Huge blow for Purdue.

Big and white sure, but stiffs not so much. Dudes like Butch and Leur and Krabbenhoff (sp?) could/can ball.

In terms of the talent on hand I'd argue both Izzo and Ryan have better talent than the general public tends to think they do, much like the myth that IU with Knight won with "lesser talent". Nope, IU had some ballers and so do Sparty and Bucky. It may not be tons of the burger boy/1 and done crowd but it's still quality players in large amounts.

When you have to start Tim Jarmusz, you don't have quality players in large amounts. Butch and Krabenhoft (sp?) had some skills and worked very hard, but neither was exceptionally athletic. And I never heard anyone saying that Bobby Knight won with "lesser talent". He always had good players, much more so that Bo Ryan has.

When you have to start Tim Jarmusz, you don't have quality players in large amounts. Butch and Krabenhoft (sp?) had some skills and worked very hard, but neither was exceptionally athletic.

Bull fukken sheet. Krabenhoft and Butch were 5 star recruits. Maybe they weren't "exceptionally athletic" but you don't normally get that out of the center position. Furthermore, Leuer, Hughes, Nankivil, and Bohannon were all 4 stars. I believe it was 2 years ago Wisky had one of the highest, if not the highest rated class in the Big Ten.

Nobody is saying you're UNC, but stop acting like you're doing it with community college 1 star walk ons. That shit is laughable.

I know that Butch was a McDonalds All-American, but he got absolutely dominated in the game. Neither he nor Krabenhoft should have been 5 star recruits. I'd like to see a link to where Wisconsin had the highest rated recruiting class in the Big 10.

Goober McTuber wrote:I know that Butch was a McDonalds All-American, but he got absolutely dominated in the game. Neither he nor Krabenhoft should have been 5 star recruits.

They were sought after recruits, and Bo was able to snag them. That's the point.

I'd like to see a link to where Wisconsin had the highest rated recruiting class in the Big 10.

I'll see what I can dig up. I'm pretty sure they've had at least two "top 3" classes (within conference) in recent years. I think four of their five current starters were 4 star recruits. I'm not comparing them on a year to year basis to Ohio St or MSU, but they have not exactly been scraping the bottom of the barrel for talent - that's the only point I'm making. That is over dramatized by Wisconsin fans and largely myth.

I will say that Ohio St has been the dominant team in recruiting over the years, with MSU coming in second but still in a whole 'nother tier below. OSU has not shown a great return on its investment over the last 10 years, imo. This has been due in large part to Matta's love affair with the "one and done" type players.

Truth be told about the one and dones...Oden was definitely gone...Conley had a great tourney run that helped him get into the lottery...Cook not sure why he would think of leaving...he should have stayed...

Kofus was an ass hat he fucked OSU out of a schollie I think if I recall...Mullen should have stayed 1 more year but you can't teach all that height...not sure about this current crop that Matta has coming in (Sullinger, etc)...hopefully Turner comes back and Buford...if they do OSU will be STOUT next year...

anyway carry on...

Yeah, that was harsh wording on my part, I admit. But hey, it got you to post, right? Something this forum could use more of...

true...Izzo has come in and taken some good Ohio kids (Raymer, etc)...

just not sure how long Thad can continue to go into Indiana and get these kids...sonner or later (I am hoping for the sake of the conference) Creen will be keeping these players in state...

There's about as good of a chance that I have a three way with Jessica Alba and Jessica Biel as there is that Evan Turner plays another season of college ball.

As for recruiting I think it is clear that over the recent years tO$U has brought in the highest profile kids. I would argue that they've had a decent return on that investment though as they just wrapped up their third conference title in the past six seasons. Oden was for sure a 1 and done but Conley was unexpected and guys like Mullen and Koufous weren't ready but left due to the old "can't teach height" draft selection criteria. Even with Turner leaving tO$U is brining in two 5 star studs to fill the gap so if they can keep everyone else (Buford is the only underclassmen I could see flirting with the league) then they'll still be a top 25 caliber team next year.

I still say Izzo has the best mix of getting talented kids, developing kids and getting results. Matta is more of a get talented kids and win type coach and Ryan gets slightly less heralded kids but uses his system to win. Painter is still an unknown at this point as he took full advantage of several factors to land the foundation recruits for their current success (Moore, Johnson, Hummel) but the jury is still out on the kids he's brought in after them to keep PU at such a high level.

As for Indiana, Crean is working on it and the verdict will be delivered in the 2012 class of kids. The state of Indiana is fairly loaded for that class and Crean isn't working from behind on these kids like he was with the 09 and 10 classes. This is where he has to show he can win the battles with the Purdues, Sparties and Buckeyes of the conference along with the elite teams like UNC and Dook that come in after those kids and the regional players like UK, Louisville and Xavier. I'm confident Crean will hold his own there but skeptical IU will ever have a full-on "lockdown" of the state. Hell, we never have had that even during the Knight glory years.

Getting back to Matta, he'll still have success in Indiana even once Crean re-establishes IU but the pickings won't be as ripe. Bottom line is if IU had a competent coach in place Oden and Conley would have been Hoosiers. But Thomas who is heading to C-bus next year probably would have anyway even if IU weren't putting out the dumpster fire Brand, Herbert, Davis, Sampson et al set ablaze. Matta has a proven track record of recruiting success and has a solid grasp on the HS landscape in Indiana. Often overlooked is how successful Matta has been with Ohio kids.

I still say Izzo has the best mix of getting talented kids, developing kids and getting results. Matta is more of a get talented kids and win type coach and Ryan gets slightly less heralded kids but uses his system to win.

Fair overall assessment.

Yes, very good break down Shine...Yes his development of Ohio kids...especially what he did for Ron Lewis the last 2 years...then you put in how Jamar Butler improved, then Buford and Diebler...

Shine, what can you say about Thomas? I have watched a bit of video...but would rather get a honest assessment from a Hoosier...