gameday!!!!

[SunCoastSooner]

Yeah, and Nebraska isn't running that offense anymore either. Nobody is, at least among teams who expect to be taken seriously at the highest levels of the game.

They're not running it anymore because Osborne retired. He had won 2 outright titles and a split title with Michigan in three of his last five years coaching.

[L45B]

Props to the Hawkeyes, great win last night. Their offensive and defensive lines dominated.

Looking at next season in-conference, Iowa is going to have the schedule in its favor. They get tOSU, PSU & Wisconsin all at Kinnick. I believe Wisky only loses one starter from this season. And Tate Forcier will probably put on a few pounds to get up over 175. Next year in the Big Ten could get very interesting.

[SunCoastSooner]

Suncoast,

But Nebraska didn't run a veer option near the end of Osborne's career. The option was mainly out of the I Set, correct? If you're lined up in the I and don't have wing backs motioning into the back field, the defense has to still account for the TE, 2 WR's and anyone else out of the back field. From the Veer, they have to account for the one WR, the TE, and the three guys in the backfield, who they are already keying on.

Van,

You realize that the spread/read option offense that teams run is basically the same offense that GaTech runs, except out of the shotgun, right?

They ran it under Gill, Turner, Humm, Soreley, and Quinn and none of them had more passes than Nesbitt... just sayin'. I think you're trying to revise history and make Nebraska something it never really was. Hell the only reason they even threw the ball at all was when Ferrangamo transferred in from Kal after being put on probation and Osborne promised him to open up the offense more if he came to Nebraska since Osborne was desperate to beat Oklahoma at the time and they had hit a dead end at QB. Osbourne was using him as a sort of stop gap which worked out when they brought in Quinn and Mauer. Interesting piece of trivia for you is that Turner Gill succeeded Quinn as Quarterback at Nebraska and now Jeff Quinn is succeeding Turner Gill at Buffalo as the head coach.

[Killian]

My point is that the threat for the pass is there more when you run it from the I than from say the veer or wishbone. When you run it from those two sets you can drop an extra defender in the box and still not worry about getting beat deep with the pass. Put an extra guy in the box against the I and 3 players are going to have single coverage as opposed to 1 having double.

[Van]

Killian, you do realize that those other teams also offer at least the threat of a passing game, right? Navy doesn't, but Navy will never be worth bothering about.

G.T.'s offense doesn't work against equal competition, not when the opponent had sufficient time to prepare for it. Eleven-on-eight football means you're going to lose. That's why it's never been run in the NFL, and that's why nobody runs it in the Big XII anymore. It wasn't until Nebraska had overwhelming talent that they ever won in the postseason with that offense. For the longest time, they were a perennial loser in the postseason, despite all the wins and stats they put up during the regular season.

OU doesn't run it anymore. Nebraska doesn't either. Why? Because it won't work these days, not in a bowl game, not without a credible threat of a passing game.

[Van]

My point is that the threat for the pass is there more when you run it from the I than from say the veer or wishbone. When you run it from those two sets you can drop an extra defender in the box and still not worry about getting beat deep with the pass. Put an extra guy in the box against the I and 3 players are going to have single coverage as opposed to 1 having double.

Agreed.

[SunCoastSooner]

My point is that the threat for the pass is there more when you run it from the I than from say the veer or wishbone. When you run it from those two sets you can drop an extra defender in the box and still not worry about getting beat deep with the pass. Put an extra guy in the box against the I and 3 players are going to have single coverage as opposed to 1 having double.

They threw it less when they switched to strictly a power I football team, Killian. That's my point. Ferrangamo played QB when Nebraska was still running the veer and as well as some Power I. Hell Ferrangamo was the reason that the PowI was starting to get played more at NU because he really wasn't a veer QB and didn't have the speed to hit the corner that Nebraska was used to having when they had Luck and Humm. The only reason Luck started getting to toss the ball around some was they were getting ready to insert Ferrangamo as soon as he was eligible after transferring. Outside of one year under Luck and the two years under Ferrangamo Nesbitt threw the ball more than any of the QBs Osborne had.

[SunCoastSooner]

Killian, you do realize that those other teams also offer at least the threat of a passing game, right? Navy doesn't, but Navy will never be worth bothering about.

G.T.'s offense doesn't work against equal competition, not when the opponent had sufficient time to prepare for it. Eleven-on-eight football means you're going to lose. That's why it's never been run in the NFL, and that's why nobody runs it in the Big XII anymore. It wasn't until Nebraska had overwhelming talent that they ever won in the postseason with that offense. For the longest time, they were a perennial loser in the postseason, despite all the wins and stats they put up during the regular season.

OU doesn't run it anymore. Nebraska doesn't either. Why? Because it won't work these days, not in a bowl game, not without a credible threat of a passing game.

Ummm... Between coaches Devaney and Osborne who both ran the same styled offenses Nebraska was a combined 17-11 in the postseason. They won the Orange Bowl seven times, Fiesta three times, and Cotton Bowl twice. The roughest stretch of losses they had in the post season was when they first switched to the power I exclusively from the veer. Osborne said he was deeply considering going back to the veer offense until they brought in Berringer at Quarterback and Schlesinger at Fullback. They may have overwhelmed the Big 8 conference talent wise at the time with Colorado going on probation and Oklahoma just coming off it with multiple coaching changes in less than a decade but they certainly didn't overwhelm Miami, Florida, Virginia Tech, and Tennessee at the time... the only one of those schools that even put up a fight against them was Miami and they all had over a month to prepare for the option.

Oklahoma stopped running the option when Gibbs was hired simply because he wanted to run a pro style offense and he was the head coach so it was his decision to make. Oklahoma had played for the National title or a piece of it four times in the previous six or seven years.

[Van]

SCS, nobody is doing shit with it now, is the point. Nobody is, nor will they. Make yourself too one-dimensional, and it won't fly. These days, you have to at least offer a credible threat of a passing game.

As for Nebraska, I was referring to Tom Osborne, who, for the longest time, had a pretty dismal record in bowl games. Even after coming around towards the end, he still ended up with a losing record. He went into a lot of those games carrying some pretty gaudy stats, and more often than not Nebraska fell flat on their faces.

[SunCoastSooner]

SCS, nobody is doing shit with it now, is the point. Nobody is, nor will they. Make yourself too one-dimensional, and it won't fly. These days, you have to at least offer a credible threat of a passing game.

As for Nebraska, I was referring to Tom Osborne, who, for the longest time, had a pretty dismal record in bowl games. Even after coming around towards the end, he still ended up with a losing record. He went into a lot of those games carrying some pretty gaudy stats, and more often than not Nebraska fell flat on their faces.

Osbourne had the better record between him and Devaney... that stretch of games you are probably referring to was what I said when he was considering going back to the veer before Berringer and Schlesinger showed up. After that they started to steam roll people again. If not for that one stretch of Bowl games after switching exclusively to the power I Osbourne would have only something like five or six Bowl loses in over 20 years.

[SunCoastSooner]

I believe I'm right in that Nesbitt was more a passing QB when he was recruited to Tech. Had to give up any plans to continue as a QB after college if he stayed on to run Johnson's offense.

I know you're wrong... Dead wrong at that. Nesbitt went to Green County High School which is renowned in Georgia for its defense and option running attack. He had almost more rushing attempts in just his senior season than he had throwing attempts in three years playing QB for them (though he was the back up his sophomore year). He was one of the first players that Paul Johnson hopped on after being hired, specifically for his option ability. He was originally going to go to Duke until Paul Johnson was hired at Georgia Tech when he decommitted and took a visit that very weekend to Georgia Tech where he gave them a verbal.

I knew I'd read that he almost transferred 'cause of Johnson's offense.

http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/colle ... 09356.html

Finding different ways to win is what Nesbitt's career has been about. Recruited by former coach Chan Gailey, Nesbitt came to Georgia Tech expecting to do the same things he did at Greene County High in Georgia his final two high school seasons, when he threw for a combined 5,089 yards, with 63 touchdown passes and 13 interceptions.

Instead, when it came time to take over, Paul Johnson arrived with the triple option. Nesbitt said his friends and family urged him to transfer. But he said he was willing to give the offense a try. It wasn't until his 11th game last season -- against Miami -- that he said he felt comfortable with it.

As a senior at Greene County High, he passed for 2,256 yards and 32 touchdowns with just four interceptions, completing 134-of-222 passes. Nesbitt also rushed for 493 yards on just 93 carries.

I'm not saying he didn't run the ball at all, but he was recruited by Chan Gailey to throw the ball. He didn't go to Tech to run an offense like Johnson came in with.

The Herald is full of shit... if that is what they printed. He had committed to Georgia Tech when Gailey was the coach and reopened after Gailey got fired despite what that article says. After he got fired he verbaled to Duke supposedly... maybe Rivals was incorrect about that though, . Paul Johnson was named as the successor to Gailey the Wednesday before the Army/Navy game; if you will recall that was what all the hubbub during that Navy stomping of Army was about. Nessbitt decomitted from Duke and verballed to Georgia Tech on December 10 the day before Army/Navy. Maybe I got the stats backwards but I know for certain that Green County runs a veer offense almost exactly like Georgia Tech's; my father and I both know Coach Winslette who is now their head coach... probably about to get fired though since they haven't had a winning season since Nesbitt left.

[MuchoBulls]

I heard a stat toward the end of the regular season that Ga Tech led the nation in number of passes over x amount of yards. That'd probably sound more impressive if I could remember what the x was.

I believe X was 50.

[SunCoastSooner]

No, it's not because it's "too easy to stop", it's because teams aren't going to expose their mulit-million dollar QB's to that kind of punishment and put them at a higher risk of injury.

Sin,

St. Louis Cardinal 1978-1979

And they weren't even multi-million dollar players back then...

[Mr T]

T, I only wish FSU could prepare for a game like that!!!!

FSU had a full year to prepare for that offense and still couldn't stop them.

Well GT is pretty dang good since Paul Johnson came around in games when the other team only has a week to prepare.

FSU will have the offense next year. Lets see if the noles can turn the defense around.

[SunCoastSooner]

The main reason GT's Jerry Lewis offense won't (and is not run) work in the NFL is one reason: Defensive Speed. Very true about what Mace said (they don't want high-paid QB's getting killed), but if an NFL offense were to run that crap exclusively, D's would eat their ass for lunch on every play. Even the Rams... :D

It's the same with some of this super-spread shit (Auburn is a shiny example). Sure - you've got some NFL teams that spread shit out some, but the ones who ultimately smash it up the middle are normally the ones who are most successful.

Weird because a variation of the same style (not same scheme but style) of offense is all the rage now... it's called the Wildcat and it's worked out pretty damn well for a lot of teams this season and surely hasn't been eaten up. Instead of using a designated QB in the system they use a RB though but it is the same concept of checking off the LBs and reading the defense to decide how the down should be played.

[SunCoastSooner]

The main reason GT's Jerry Lewis offense won't (and is not run) work in the NFL is one reason: Defensive Speed. Very true about what Mace said (they don't want high-paid QB's getting killed), but if an NFL offense were to run that crap exclusively, D's would eat their ass for lunch on every play. Even the Rams... :D

It's the same with some of this super-spread shit (Auburn is a shiny example). Sure - you've got some NFL teams that spread shit out some, but the ones who ultimately smash it up the middle are normally the ones who are most successful.

Weird because a variation of the same style (not same scheme but style) of offense is all the rage now... it's called the Wildcat and it's worked out pretty damn well for a lot of teams this season and surely hasn't been eaten up. Instead of using a designated QB in the system they use a RB though but it is the same concept of checking off the LBs and reading the defense to decide how the down should be played.

And who is running it full-time?

Miami basically did for half the season... finally benched Henne and put in Pat White to play a "hybrid" position to make it more dangerous in the later part of the year.

[War Wagon]

And Pat White got hurt.

The wildcat formation doesn't work consistently unless there's at least some credible threat of the pass. In most cases, there isn't.

What little bit it has worked will be short lived as DC's game plan for it in the future.

[SunCoastSooner]

And Pat White got hurt.

The wildcat formation doesn't work consistently unless there's at least some credible threat of the pass. In most cases, there isn't.

What little bit it has worked will be short lived as DC's game plan for it in the future.

That's why teams, if they choose to use it, should have a third string "duel QB" run it (like Miami tried) or a back up RB. Third string QBs aren't any more expensive than regular players I don't believe.

[War Wagon]

Except when you're down to the 3rd string QB (Thigpen) because the first two got hurt, then it becomes very expensive.

[SunCoastSooner]

Miami basically did for half the season... finally benched Henne and put in Pat White to play a "hybrid" position to make it more dangerous in the later part of the year.

The Dolphins pretty much only used it about 10-12 times a game. Like WW said - they let White have a chance at running it more, and he almost died.

Miami ran it at least 20 times or more in three games I can think of off the top of my head. The Monday nighter against the Jets, the second game against the Bills, and
and against Carolina. I know for sure against the Jets and the Panthers because those were night games that I got to see most of without being distracted by other games that were on.

[SunCoastSooner]

Regardless - they're going home early. The teams that are in the playoffs rarely touch it.

Dallas runs it about four or five times a game... though I wish they wouldn't, so does Philly. Just sayin'.