is anyone here against capital punishment?

[BSmack]

BStupid-

Wow, things are looking good for you when your first retort is something straight out of the 3rd grade insult guide. Way to step it up and not call me a big poopy head.

You haven't yet identified a single person who has been executed in the United States that was later "exonerated".

Nice try at moving the goal posts. The issue is trust in the system. You claim you trust it and I think that only a mouth breathing mongoloid would ever put absolute trust in the criminal justice system.

In fact, most of the peeps listed in your link were exonerated and released pursuant to the system we are discussing. It isn't like they were snatched from prison by the gods. They system reviewed their cases and let them free.

Only after each man served an average of 10 years of hard time. I guess it's a good thing the GOP hasn't been able to rush through habeus "reform".

Capricious: subject to whim, impulse and unpredictability. Your linked article cites a few hundred "exonorations" over a 14 year period. Do you have any idea how many criminal cases are processed during that time. We are talking about an error rate of 0.0001% or less. Seriously, dog. You are a complete idiot. I can't think of anything else that works that well.

How about the bullshit conveyor you have wired to your keyboard? It seems to be working at 100% efficiency.

Somewhere in the space between your ears you ought to have enough gray matter to at least be able to articulate a basis for the garbage that you post. Give it a try. So far, total fail.

The basis is simple. Here, I'll break it down for you.

1. The taking of life is irrevocable

2. The justice system is not and has never been 100% reliable and should therefore never be allowed to impose any penalty it cannot provide adequate remedy for should said conviction be found invalid.

3. Anybody who puts total faith in the justice system is a fucking moron.

4. You should change your nick to 88Waystobestupid or something equally urbane

5. The Browns are a bunch of panty wearing homos

[BSmack]

Read this...

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/document-pr ... d=10401390

and this...

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2009 ... fact_grann

[War Wagon]

...persons of low IQ such as yourself.

Having debated Bri and his ideaology for 10 years, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that he's one of the sharpest motherfuckers I've ever come across. And a pretty solid guy.

Others would say the same... many others.

[smackaholic]

Has the system ever failed and executed an innocent? probably. Nothing is pefect, but, our system is fukking close to perfect, in this regard. More perfect than anything else the gubmint does.

My question to those against the death penalty for this reason is, how many innocents have been killed by lifer, nothing to lose, human feces in prison, who would still be alive, had their murderers gotten dead before they?

I think keeping a rotten POS alive and interacting with others when they have absolutely nothing to loose, is unfair to those who are exposed to them.

I'd like to see stats on this. I wonder how many prison guards have been killed by such fukkers. I am certain that it dwarfs the number of wrongfully executed people.

[smackaholic]

Of those 1,802 people, not one has ever been found to have been wrongfully executed.

The "system" is batting 1.000.

The Houston Chronicle might not agree with you.

The New Yorker might not either.

Interesting article about the cantu execution, but, i don't buy it. why the hell would he finger that guy? he had no reason to do so. and cantu proved later on that he was quite capable of killing someone.

[Dan Vogel]

I've never been in favor of the death penalty. I can understand the reasons why some people support it though. Mainly it comes from a desire for vengence.

One way to approach this issue might be for the death penalty decision to be made by the closest surviving family member of the person who has been killed. If that person wants to seek the death penalty then fine. And if not then move on to the next level of punishment. It's just a thought.

Have a nice weekend!

[smackaholic]

I am against the death penalty for anyone that takes you out, danny.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

why the hell would he finger that guy? he had no reason to do so.

"Don't knock it 'till you've tried it!"

Sincerely,

[BSmack]

Angola

I hear they have a pretty good golf course there. You ever play it?

[BSmack]

Prison View Golf Course

No, I've had chances to play there but I'm not really a golfer. Some of the holes are unusual, to say the least. I would rather hunt or fish there, some nice deer and sac-a-lait in that area.

That is going on my want to play list for sure.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Capital punishment is fine and dandy, but I think our prison systems need to implement a solid torturing program. You know, for serial killers, rapists, and pedos. I can't imagine it'd cost the taxpayers very much, either. Let the families get involved, too, Hostile-style. Or even just let the general public come on down and take turns. Kinda like the pay five bucks and bash-the-car dealio at county fairs and such.

[Diego in Seattle]

Capital punishment is fine and dandy, but I think our prison systems need to implement a solid torturing program. You know, for serial killers, rapists, and pedos. I can't imagine it'd cost the taxpayers very much, either. Let the families get involved, too, Hostile-style. Or even just let the general public come on down and take turns. Kinda like the pay five bucks and bash-the-car dealio at county fairs and such.

Torture??

Hell, we can't even get them to work for their own keep!

[Felix]

only in the sense that it costs lots money to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives (what with endless appeals, hearings, etc.)...

I actually have no problem with people that want to be executed rather than being gang raped in prison....jesus, when it comes to kids, even gang bangers and car jackers have a certain moral code and fucking with kids steps over even that moral boundary for most low lifes

[BSmack]

only in the sense that it costs lots money to execute someone than it does to keep them in prison for the rest of their lives (what with endless appeals, hearings, etc.)...

I actually have no problem with people that want to be executed rather than being gang raped in prison....jesus, when it comes to kids, even gang bangers and car jackers have a certain moral code and fucking with kids steps over even that moral boundary for most low lifes

Nah, it's not any more moral than picking on the weak kid on the playground. Then again, given what the child killers and kiddie fuckers have been convicted of, there's a certain sublime beauty in seeing the roles in their lives reversed.

[Lillian Vernon]

Here is the best Death Penalty site ever. It has detailed info on every execution since reinstatement of the death penalty in the 70's. I check it every couple weeks or so to see who's getting the axe.

They don't have the LA one up yet, but I'm sure it will be there soon...

http://www.clarkprosecutor.org/html/death/usexecute.htm

Interesting one dude chose the electric chair in VA just last November.

[Felix]

Interesting one dude chose the electric chair in VA just last November.

just four days after his 60th birthday.....quite the birthday present

[smackaholic]

I say fukk lethal injection. Too nice. We should have hangings or firing squads.

[BSmack]

Capital punishment may well survive in Texas and other backwater southern locales. But the seeds are already being sown for a massive shift in legal theory away from the idea that the death penalty can ever been administered fairly and without caprice.

Samuel Gross, a law professor at the University of Michigan, said he recalled reading Model Penal Code as a first-year law student in 1970. “The death penalty was an abstract issue of little interest to me or my fellow students,” Professor Gross said. But he remembered being impressed by the institute’s work, saying, “I thought in passing that smarter people than I had done a sensible job of figuring out this tricky problem.”

Things will look different come September, Professor Gross said.

“Law students who take first-year criminal law from 2010 on,” he said, “will learn that this same group of smart lawyers and judges — the ones whose work they read every day — has said that the death penalty in the United States is a moral and practical failure.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/us/05bar.html

[smackaholic]

Capital punishment may well survive in Texas and other backwater southern locales. But the seeds are already being sown for a massive shift in legal theory away from the idea that the death penalty can ever been administered fairly and without caprice.

Samuel Gross, a law professor at the University of Michigan, said he recalled reading Model Penal Code as a first-year law student in 1970. “The death penalty was an abstract issue of little interest to me or my fellow students,” Professor Gross said. But he remembered being impressed by the institute’s work, saying, “I thought in passing that smarter people than I had done a sensible job of figuring out this tricky problem.”

Things will look different come September, Professor Gross said.

“Law students who take first-year criminal law from 2010 on,” he said, “will learn that this same group of smart lawyers and judges — the ones whose work they read every day — has said that the death penalty in the United States is a moral and practical failure.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/05/us/05bar.html

fortunately pointy headed law profs aren't the only ones with a say in the matter.

[Cuda]

What would you expect from such a backwater locale?

[BSmack]

I'd be curious what the pointy headed law professor would say about Gerald Bordelon.

There was zero doubt of his guilt. Gerald knew there was evil in him, and he knew that he should die.

The state is not in the business of allowing inmates to pass sentence upon themselves.

[BSmack]

Ah. But the state should be in the business of making sure that women can pass sentence upon their unborn...

That's where you should stop.

[titlover]

Not surprisingly, it's the liberal, bleeding heart faggots on this forum that are against the death penalty in this case

I'm a constitutional conservative.


We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


Unalienable right to life.

Do you know the meaning of the word unalienable?

You want the state to deny life?

Well, I'll be.


Why do you hate the declaration of independence?


Liberal puke.




:wink:

too bad we base our laws on the Consitution, moron.

[BSmack]

Why? Because it exposes your inconsistency?

"It" does nothing of the kind. I don't believe a fetus is the same thing as a human. If you do it is because our educational system has failed you.

[titlover]

Why? Because it exposes your inconsistency?

"It" does nothing of the kind. I don't believe a fetus is the same thing as a human. If you do it is because our educational system has failed you.

what is a 12 week old fetus then. a dog? elephant? gazelle? is it not alive in your pathetic mind?

[BSmack]

what is a 12 week old fetus then.

It is a fetus you fucking dumbass.

[Mikey]

what is a 12 week old fetus then.

It is a fetus you fucking dumbass.

So you want to let murderers go free, but you'd kill a baby just for being unformed.

Typical liberal douchebag.

[titlover]

what is a 12 week old fetus then.

It is a fetus you fucking dumbass.

so not a potential baby or not considered a living being. got it....

[BSmack]

what is a 12 week old fetus then.

It is a fetus you fucking dumbass.

Would you feel better about capital punishment if after passing the sentence, the judge renamed the convict a fetus?

I would feel better about our legal system if you would just admit you're trolling. Otherwise the Ohio Bar somehow admitted a complete fucking moron.

[Lillian Vernon]

I'd be curious what the pointy headed law professor would say about Gerald Bordelon.

There was zero doubt of his guilt. Gerald knew there was evil in him, and he knew that he should die.

The state is not in the business of allowing inmates to pass sentence upon themselves.

Was he not given a trial and sentenced to death?

Who cares if he wants to die or not? If he was given due process and judge or jury passed that sentence on him, then it should stand regardless of his opinion.

[poptart]

Not surprisingly, it's the liberal, bleeding heart faggots on this forum that are against the death penalty in this case

I'm a constitutional conservative.


We hold these Truths to be self-evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.


Unalienable right to life.

Do you know the meaning of the word unalienable?

You want the state to deny life?

Well, I'll be.


Why do you hate the declaration of independence?


Liberal puke.




:wink:

too bad we base our laws on the Consitution, moron.

The founders were of the understanding that our rights come from ...?

Other men?
A piece of paper?


- all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights


Our rights come from the Creator, and the Constitution was set up not to give rights to people, but merely to PROTECT the rights of people.

Seeing that those words - unalienable right to life - were placed in our declaration of independence, do you really think the founders would then proceed to construct a Constitution which DENIES a fundamental right of ours, which is recognized to be given ... by GOD?


Take your time.

[BSmack]

I would feel better about our legal system if you would just admit you're trolling. Otherwise the Ohio Bar somehow admitted a complete fucking moron.

Weren't you the guy who was bitching a couple of days ago about name calling? Oh well. Different day, different flailing attempt to defend the the irrational.

The guy who proposes declaring a grown human to be a fetus is talking about the irrational?

:lv:

Let's take this one in little bites. You say state sanctioned/condoned/permitted abortion should be permitted because it is a fetus. OK. Is it a fetus that the state can allow a woman to abort 1 second before the baby would otherwise be born? If not, why?

We've both been in delivery rooms and know that what you're saying is bullshit. So spare me the sob stories about the .000001% of abortions that are of the partial birth variety. Seriously, you're more likely to be hit by lightning than be the victim of a partial birth abortion. So, by your logic, it's all cool.

[BSmack]

I have no interest in discussing partial-birth abortion. I'm trying to educate you on the stupidity of your prior answer and reasoning on this issue. There are plenty of good reasons why it would be in the state's interest to make abortion legal. But justifying it because you call the thing that dies a fetus is stupid.

So, answer the question already. Should the state permit a woman to choose to end her pregnancy by killing the whatever you want to call it one second before it would otherwise be born?

You have no interest in discussing partial birth abortion (which almost NEVER actually happens) yet your question directly references partial birth abortion.

Yea.

But, purely from standpoint of what most benefits society, I say if the mother doesn't want the kid, better to end it before the unwanted kid turns into a career criminal.

There, is that sufficiently Malthusian for you?

[poptart]

But, purely from standpoint of what most benefits society, I say if the mother doesn't want the kid, better to end it before the unwanted kid turns into a career criminal.

The kid has no say in his execution.

- Marcus



There's a reason terms like "snobish elite" are tossed around.

[BSmack]

The kid has no say in his execution.

- Marcus

There's a reason terms like "snobish elite" are tossed around.

Tumors don't have a say either.

There's a reason terms like "fundie wingbat" are tossed around.

[poptart]

You're in favor allowing a mother to have her unborn child executed because he might be born into a bad situation.

You're not in favor of having brutal, sick and twisted criminals executed because the possibility exists that maybe one out of ____ (hundreds?) brutal, sick and twisted individuals is not really guilty of the crime.

Your position would be terrific comic relief if it wasn't so utterly pathetic.


How 'bout this ...

If a mother is afraid that a child will be born into a bad situation, SHE is the very root of the "bad" situation, so let's allow the guiltless child to be born and we execute HER instead?

Yes.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

The mothers should just convert to Islam, then you won't have an issue with them seeking abortions.

Problem solved.

[smackaholic]

Bri and most other liberal partisans will defend absolute abortion rights because they know that a nice chunk of their powerbase the "abortion fundamentalist whackos" as I like to call them, will flee the party if they show the slightest notion, that maybe some abortions might be a bad thing.

The abort them before they become criminals defense is particularly pathetic. By this logic, we should sent armed squads into the ghetto to exterminate future criminals for the good of society.

As for partial birth murder, they like to look the other way and cite the rarity, rather than address it for what it is. When pressed they will go to the slick willy card and say we should have a law against it, so long as it is worded with the "health of the mother" clause which renders it utterly toothless. Childbirth is inherently a "health risk" and these fukks know it, but, don't give a fukk.

Personally, I am with 88. First trimester abortions should, imo, be legal. This would allow a woman to flush a child that wasn't "a wanted child" to quote that dumb bitch that played surgeon general for willy.

[THRASHER]

I think abortion should be legal during the first month or so after conception.

I don't believe the procedure be effectively performed until about 6 weeks into gestation.

For BSmack to insinuate that a fetus is something other than a human being is absurd. Precisely at the moment of conception, the genetic material from both parents is fused into a unique individual and there will never be another person exactly like that ever again (unless the egg splits into an identical twin). There is absolutely no scientific question that life begins at conception. I can't even believe this is a matter of debate.

The issue is: At what point does that individual have the right to life?

I'd like to hear BSmack's response to 88's question about whether he supports abortion seconds before birth. Saying "partial birth abortion hardly ever happens" is not an answer.

[BSmack]

I think abortion should be legal during the first month or so after conception.

I don't believe the procedure be effectively performed until about 6 weeks into gestation. [/quuote]

I think what 88 meant to say was the first month or so after the missed period.

For BSmack to insinuate that a fetus is something other than a human being is absurd. Precisely at the moment of conception, the genetic material from both parents is fused into a unique individual and there will never be another person exactly like that ever again (unless the egg splits into an identical twin). There is absolutely no scientific question that life begins at conception. I can't even believe this is a matter of debate.

The issue is: At what point does that individual have the right to life?

9 months later.

I'd like to hear BSmack's response to 88's question about whether he supports abortion seconds before birth. Saying "partial birth abortion hardly ever happens" is not an answer.

Abortions don't happen "seconds before birth". It's a bullshit question and you would know it if you had ever been in a delivery room.