Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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Dinsdale
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by Dinsdale »

War Wagon wrote:
Dinsdale wrote:maybe by reducing the federal budget by 50 fucking percent without Medicrap....
50% huh?

Is there anything you can spew about that isn't complete and utter bullshit? I mean it's one thing to just be an ignorant douchebag wallowing in his own ignorance, quite another when they go out of their way to prove how ignorant they are... in the most overbearing way possible.

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Yup, like I said... entitlement spending and the interest accrued on it...

is just about 50 fucking percent, you idiot.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by Shlomart Ben Yisrael »

Dinsdale wrote:
Flippin tard still thinks money magically comes from thin air.

Of course not.

It comes from printing presses....



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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by War Wagon »

88 wrote: Just a question, Wags. If you haven't paid in $30,000, why do you think you should get out $30,000? If everyone thinks and acts like that, who pays the bill?
To begin with, I'm not taking $30,000, my mother is. Now she prolly didn't pay that much in, but my Dad might've and he died at age 55 and probably never saw a dime of Medicare or Medicare. He was also a WWII vet and worked for the USPS for many years, so my mom has also gotten benefit from the VA and postal workers union.

Is that fair? I dunno', I didn't make the rules, but my family has lived by them.

As for me, I've been paying Medicare and Social Security taxes since my first "real" job in 1978. I reckon I'll have earned whatever benefits come my way when the time comes. If I live that long, that is. I probably won't and some fuckstick like Dinsdale will spend my share.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by War Wagon »

Dinsdale wrote: Yup, like I said... entitlement spending and the interest accrued on it...

is just about 50 fucking percent, you idiot.
No Spinsdale, you said "Medicrap".

Not entitlement, not interest accrued (on the entire debt, mind you, not just that part spent on Medicrap).

23 does not = 50 Spinsdale, except in your full of shit world.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by War Wagon »

88 wrote:
You aren't answering the question, Wags. We are talking about health insurance reform. You want the government to take money from me and other taxpayers and give it to you. I'm asking whether you think that is fair? And if you think it is fair, what do you do when those who used to make a high income and paid those bills decide to stop doing so because of the diminishing returns for their effort? How would you feel if half of your income was taken from you and given to someone else?
I tried to answer your question.

I don't want the government to take money from you and give it to me (or my mom) and no, I wouldn't think it was fair if they did.

Happy now?

Probably not... apparently you think my mother has somehow screwed you by living so long. Sorry 'bout that. She burnt thru her life savings about 5 years ago, I guess we should've tossed her in the Missouri river like an unwanted cat.

Would that make you happy?
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by War Wagon »

I didn't miss your point. Apparently you missed where I'm not for any reform... that makes the system more unfair. I don't trust government to fix anything, no matter how much money they throw at the problem

I don't have the answers, but I know costs are obscene and that's where reform, if there is to be reform, has to start.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by KC Scott »

88 wrote:
Mikey wrote:I wouldn't mind some of the money that I pay to the government going into a fund that would provide me with coverage in the unfortunate circumstance that someday I can't afford to pay may healthcare costs. I also wouldn't mind if some of that money went to pay for costs of other people who are now in that circumstance, as long as I was assured that there would be coverage for me if I need it. I wouldn't call that "freeloading"...would you?

Sort of the way "insurance" is supposed to work. Unfortunately our current version of "health insurance" is nothing of the sort.
Well, if every American was required to pay into the fund (like unemployment insurance) as a payroll deduction, and it was only available to those who paid in in an amount proportional to the amount they paid in, and for a limited time, again as a safety net (like unemployment insurance), then yes, I wouldn't call that freeloading and I might actually get behind it (provided it was administrated at the State level, and not at the Federal level). But that is not what at all what we're talking about here.
So that's what I was thinking this would / could be - a deduction that goes into a general fund that helps underwrite competitive plans.
Along with this I'd support torte reform to cap malpractice damages (sorry counselors) since that's gonna impact how much coverage is gonna cost.

I'd also have US do what every other country in the world has done and negotiate / cap pharmaceutical prices.
Sorry if I'm not buying the whole "It would kill R & D" beacuse it wouldn't.
There's no reason a cancer drug that could be saving lives costs $5000 per dose here and $300 in Canada.

And as someone who pays a pretty big chunk of taxes every year, like I'm sure you do as well, I think bettering health care may better the society in general - particularly in an enviornment right now where we have 11% unemployment of folks who want to work, not who are just looking for a handout.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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To fund medical research, you should change the name of "cancer" to "Al Quuancer", appoint a czar and "declare a war" on it.

You guys like parades and shiny things, right?
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by SunCoastSooner »

War Wagon wrote:
88 wrote:
You aren't answering the question, Wags. We are talking about health insurance reform. You want the government to take money from me and other taxpayers and give it to you. I'm asking whether you think that is fair? And if you think it is fair, what do you do when those who used to make a high income and paid those bills decide to stop doing so because of the diminishing returns for their effort? How would you feel if half of your income was taken from you and given to someone else?
I tried to answer your question.

I don't want the government to take money from you and give it to me (or my mom) and no, I wouldn't think it was fair if they did.

Happy now?

Probably not... apparently you think my mother has somehow screwed you by living so long. Sorry 'bout that. She burnt thru her life savings about 5 years ago, I guess we should've tossed her in the Missouri river like an unwanted cat.

Would that make you happy?

I think 88's paid for the right that he should be the one who gets to toss someone into the river if anyone is going to be tossed. JMHO.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by trev »

mvscal wrote:
And you believe more government is the answer? C'mon, dude. You're smarter than that...or should be.
His XXXL asshole probably got in the way. As ususal.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by KC Scott »

mvscal wrote: And you believe more government is the answer? C'mon, dude. You're smarter than that...or should be.
This isn't basic economics - supply and demand haven't reduced costs.
The cost of insurance keeps increasing and the insurance companies point to "increasing costs" which is bullshit beacuse they keep trying to squeeze the Doctors to accept lower payments, while at the same time wanting greater co-pays on top of the increased premiums.
Then of course if someone gets truly sick they won't pay anymore than the absolute minimum to get them in and out of hospital as soon as they can.

I'm paying Aetna over $400 per Mo for family coverage, and when my son had appendicitis this summer,they tried to get me for not only a $100 ER visit, but $300 co-pay for outpatient surgery. That's even though the plan reads that Surgery resulting from an ER visit is covered in the ER co-pay. Luckily our CFO called their ass and they finally payed up. Those claims adjusters are just like any insurance company - they're bonused on how much they can shovel off their books.

I'm open to suggestions on how to fix it, but I all I hear is how nothing will work
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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An appendectomy is outpatient surgery?

Yikes.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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KC Scott wrote: This isn't basic economics - supply and demand haven't reduced costs.

They certainly did do exactly that... until supply/demand was skewed in 1973 (crack a book sometime).

Once demand was grossly overinflated by government interference, all bets on basic economics went out the window.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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mvscal wrote:
KC Scott wrote:This isn't basic economics - supply and demand haven't reduced costs.
Actually it is. Or at the least a cautionary tale in government intervention in market forces.

Get government out of business and business out of government and you will see supply and demand working.
Your health isn't a luxury good though, it's a need based demand = If you go to the shop to buy lawn trimmer, you look at the price. You see the price has fallen since you last bought a lawn trimmer so you pick one up.
Dis-similarly, you do not get a hip or knee replacement because the price of hip and knee replacements has fallen, you get a hip or knee replacement if and only if you need one.

Add in the asymmetry of knowledge between doctor and patient which is by definition a market failure, it places medical treatments in a different basket than ordinary goods.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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88 wrote: And the price of each, unless corrupted by other forces such as government intervention, will be market driven.
No, I'm simply being strict in my definitions, you're the one that's skewing them to support a corrupt argument - which is why the American health care system resembles animals in the zoo.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by KC Scott »

88 wrote:Here is how I would fix it.
I liked this a lot - very well thought out and detailed. How is it something like this isn't on the block already?

88 wrote: Your health is like any other purchase you make. If you are hungry, which is a need, you can choose to purchase a McValue Meal or a multi-course dinner at a 5-star restaurant. The price of those products is market driven. McValue Meals cost what they cost because that is all the market will pay.

When you get a bum ticker or a bad hip, you also have choices. You can get the Mayo Clinic premium valve job. Or, you can get some pills and some best wishes from a government subsidized hack. Or something in between. And the price of each, unless corrupted by other forces such as government intervention, will be market driven.
This isn't a real argument unless it's something that, like a bum hip, you're willing to live with. If your wife or kid has cancer, you'll want (and deserve) to get the best available. Whether you work at McDonalds or you're the CEO the treatment Should be the same.

The other thing that makes this argument invalid is that hospitals don't post their charges. It's not like you can pull up 5 different quotes on Kidney transplant and try to find the best deal. And in case of a true emergency you're not going to consider anything except how quick you can get help for your family.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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But you really don't know jack shit about the American health care system. You don't live here. Honestly, I strongly suspect that you don't know jack shit about your own health care system.

I know enough about the American system not get involved in stupid pissing contests and petty details, the problems are on the surface - I'll stick to that or else wind up endlessly pissing in the wind like you. I have quite a bit of experience with the 'socialised' system though, I like and know the subject.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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88 wrote:
No, you are defining things in such a manner so as to predetermine and skew the conclusions that result from your otherwise corrupt argument. There is never perfect knowledge in any market transaction. Under your "strict" definitions, there can never be a market driven price for any good or service.
I think Scott just knocked you on the nose.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by KC Scott »

mvscal wrote:
KC Scott wrote:This isn't basic economics - supply and demand haven't reduced costs.
Actually it is. Or at the least a cautionary tale in government intervention in market forces.

Get government out of business and business out of government and you will see supply and demand working. There is no monopoly on insurance or health care and existing anti-trust legislation is sufficient to deal with any collusion.
Maybe I'm missing something, what type of regulation exactly is on any of the Health Care Corporations Right now?
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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Martyred wrote:To fund medical research, you should change the name of "cancer" to "Al Quuancer", appoint a czar and "declare a war" on it.

You guys like parades and shiny things, right?
All right, b-juice, you're running the risk of actually being funny. In the event that you actually wake up, let us know.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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88 wrote:That is a bullshit argument, Phibes. If you buy into crapola, then the government should subsidize food, clothing and shelter too. After all, they are needs.
Just keep in mind the 'right' to health care is coming from the same assclowns who were fighting for the 'right' of everyone to own a home, whether they could afford it or not.

That worked out so well.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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88's plan is a hell of a lot better than anything the gubmint is proposing. I would add one thing to it.

It is absolutely critical that the insurance buyer (you and me) have complete freedom in where they buy their insurance. In the current system everybody cries about how insurance companies try to jam them and the gubmint responds with a mountain of regulation to get the insurance company to play fair.

They ignore the one thing that would go a long way to solving this issue. That is the customer's option to tell the insurance company to go fukk themselves and hire another.

I would still allow companies to pay a share, or all of an employee's plan, btu, I would get rid of "pools". Do pools provide some economy of scale? Yeah, maybe, but, whatever little bit of savings there is there is not worth being locked into that choice where the customer has no control over the demand part of supply and demand.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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KC brings up the artificially low price other countries pay for drugs. He implies that there is some sort of conspiracy here to jam americans into paying artifically high payments.

I doubt this is the case. If it was, Pfeizer and all the rest of the bandits would have off the charts earning.

They don't, to the best of my knowledge.

I think other countries get artifically low prices because, basically, they simply tell the drug companies, it's all they can pay. The drug companies figure they either take the deal which still nets them a bit of a profit on the actual manufacture of said drugs or risk that country simply counterfeiting them. In the US, they have protection against this with a little thing called patent law, therefore, they get all the RD cost's from us.

My solution to this is to tell countries that can afford to pay more such as Canada/Europe/a few other places, they will. if they are caught counterfeiting, we slap considerable tariffs on every thing we import from them.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

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A little blast from the past (shot down by the Party of Caring, of course).

Cheaper Health Insurance
A little competition can go a long way.


Monday, July 25, 2005 12:01 A.M. EDT


Republicans haven't been getting much credit on the health policy front, despite their misguided 2003 drug entitlement masquerading as Medicare "reform." That could change soon. Last week the House Energy and Commerce Committee approved a bill that could dramatically reduce the ranks of the uninsured and spur general economic growth--all without costing a dime to the Treasury.

The idea behind the legislation, sponsored by GOP Representative John Shadegg of Arizona, is disarmingly simple: Allow Americans to buy health insurance from vendors in any one of the 50 states.

Right now Americans who aren't lucky enough to get insurance from large employers or poor enough to qualify for Medicaid find themselves at the mercy of the legislators and insurance commissioners of the state in which they happen to live. This can be OK in states that exercise this regulatory function judiciously. But in others, the young and working poor find themselves effectively priced out of the market by special-interest regulations dressed up as consumer protections.

New York requires every insurance policy sold there to cover podiatry. Acupuncture coverage is mandated in 11 states, massage therapy in four, osteopathy in 24, and chiropractors in 47. There are an estimated 1,800 or so such insurance "mandates" across the country, and the costs add up. "It is always the providers asking for the mandate; it is never the consumer," says health policy guru John Goodman, who has testified before legislatures considering such rules.

What's more, states like New Jersey and New York add two more ultra-expensive requirements: "Guaranteed issue" allows people to wait till they are sick and then buy insurance; "community rating" prevents insurers from charging different prices to people of different ages and health status. These may sound like compassionate ideas, until you realize they make insurance so expensive that millions of people are exposed to financial ruin because they aren't allowed to buy basic policies focused on catastrophic costs.

How expensive? A 2004 study by eHealthInsurance.com found that a typical insurance policy ($2,000 deductible, 20% co-insurance) for a family of four could be had for as little in as $172 per month in a reasonably regulated locality like Kansas City, Missouri. But in New York that family's only option--managed care--would run $840 per month, and in New Jersey family policies run a whopping $1,200-plus. We bet Democratic Representative Frank Pallone's constituents in New Jersey would be interested in his view that insurance in his state is only "slightly" more expensive than elsewhere.

As for the arguments against the bill, let's dismiss the phony federalism objection first. The Founders wrote a Commerce Clause into the Constitution precisely so Congress could act against internal restraints on trade of the sort represented by today's 50-state health-insurance market. The system has never made much sense; it is even more of an anachronism in the age of Amazon and eBay.

Critics also allege that freeing up interstate commerce will result in a "race to the bottom" in which fly-by-night insurers operating in poorly regulated states would be able to take advantage of consumers. But we've yet to hear which poorly regulated states they're talking about. The best analogy for what to expect here is probably our experience with interstate banking, which has indeed resulted in operators moving to friendly climes like Delaware and South Dakota but which has also proven nothing but a boon to consumers. A national market has allowed the growth of big, financially stable institutions that have earned consumer trust.

Nor, contrary to the self-interested arguments being put forth by the BlueCross BlueShield Association--which has effectively monopolized many highly regulated markets and fears the competition--would free commerce jeopardize the "risk pool" (i.e. the overall pool of money that makes insurance possible by allowing the healthy to subsidize the sick). In high-cost, guaranteed-issue states the young and healthy don't participate in the individual insurance market anyway; a larger national market can only improve matters.

As a major side benefit, interstate commerce in health insurance would remove a huge barrier to the efficient allocation of human resources in our economy. Right now untold numbers of Americans fear moving, switching jobs or starting their own businesses for fear of losing their health insurance. That would change if they were able to shop nationwide for policies that would follow them wherever they go.

But the most important issue here is justice. It is simply immoral that millions should be exposed to the possibility of financial ruin because of the all-or-nothing choice offered by the insurance regulations of states like New York and New Jersey. Amazingly, we hear the entire GOP delegations from both states are leaning against the bill, which may come before the full House in September. Their names belong on a dishonor roll should they end up letting the special-interest lobbies mentioned above determine their vote. We hope President Bush--who supports the Shadegg bill--is prepared to twist arms as he did on the Medicare vote.

It's no exaggeration to say this could turn out to be the most humane and consequential domestic achievement of the Bush years.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by Onions »

88 wrote:
KC Scott wrote:If your wife or kid has cancer, you'll want (and deserve) to get the best available. Whether you work at McDonalds or you're the CEO the treatment Should be the same.
You just drove off the rails, Scott. First of all, no one deserves to get the best available of anything. You get what you can afford. If you are Bill Gates, you can buy your own hospital and staff it with the best in the world, and you do not have to wait in line for shit. If you are Bill Bagodonuts, and don't have a pot to piss in, you get the doctor that the rest of us collectively paid for you to have for free. You don't deserve better. Truthfully, you don't deserve the doctor we are giving to you.

If your "deserve the best" argument held weight, then why aren't the libs in the U.S. burning coal to establish taxpayer funded medical clinics in places where medical treatment is truly horrendous (e.g., parts of Africa, Asia and South America)? Those are human beings too. Don't they "deserve" the best medical treatment just as much as the bum with the sore hip? Or is the "deserve" label only available to citizens of this country? What about illegal immigrants? You are on dangerous turf with the "deserve" line of thinking.

No one deserves anything. You don't deserve to get cancer. It just fucking happens. You don't deserve to have a child born with birth defects. It just fucking happens. Life isn't fair. And whether it happens or not, it is up to the individual to deal with whatever situation they have. Your problems are not my problems, and vice versa. I can choose to help you or I can choose to tell you to go fuck yourself. But you shouldn't be able to use the power of the State to steal from me to give to you.
KC Scott wrote:The other thing that makes this argument invalid is that hospitals don't post their charges. It's not like you can pull up 5 different quotes on Kidney transplant and try to find the best deal. And in case of a true emergency you're not going to consider anything except how quick you can get help for your family.
This is a market reality in many circumstances. If you happen to run out of gas in a place where there is one gasoline station and no other for many miles, guess what bub, you are going to pay whatever they charge. If hospitals started building hip replacement centers on every corner in the U.S., do you think the price might come down? Do you remember the cost of laser eye surgery before there were a gazillion clinics offering the service? It is all supply and demand. When the demand is great (e.g., a crisis situation) and the supply is low (e.g., there are only one or two facilities in the vicinity where you can get this treatment/service), the market price for that treatment/service is going to be high because your bargaining power is low. If you want to reduce that price, you have to increase the supply of doctors. And how do you do that when the apprenticeship is 15 years, the profits are being taken out of the job, and the best and brightest know they can do much better and much easier with their heels on a desk near Wall Street?

People bitch about drug companies and medical equipment companies making obscene profits. That is because the government has created barriers to entry into the market that limit the number of players and therefore reduce competition. It takes millions of dollars to get any new drug/medical device through the FDA approval process. This makes it very difficult (but not impossible) for start up companies to get going in the market.

with their heels on a desk at wall street? newsflash, tard, the financial industry has tanked and doctors are still banking.

what you capitalist shitstains can't understand is that access to medical treatment should be available to everyone breathing regardless of their occupation.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by Dinsdale »

Diogenes wrote:Just keep in mind the 'right' to health care is coming from the same assclowns who were fighting for the 'right' of everyone to own a home, whether they could afford it or not.

That worked out so well.

As much as it pains me...

RACK.



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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by War Wagon »

Is Onions Fubu Clown?

Gotta' be and I must've missed a memo.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by Onions »

go ahead and run an ip check. troll free here, unlike you manipulative turds
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by smackaholic »

Onions wrote: with their heels on a desk at wall street? newsflash, tard, the financial industry has tanked and doctors are still banking.

what you capitalist shitstains can't understand is that access to medical treatment should be available to everyone breathing regardless of their occupation.
newsflash, dumbfukk, those wall street ponzi schemers are still getting paid, and they are getting paid a hell of a lot better than the overwhelming majority of MDs. Very few doctors are "banking" anywhere near as much as others with less education.

as for access to medical treatment, they already have it, you mouthbreathing fukktard.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by Onions »

the dickhead power brokers running those schemes are still getting paid. many of those below them are not. plenty of middle class financial analysts are out of work. plenty of newly minted finance grads are out of work.

find me a doctor that is out of work. find me a doctor that is not AT LEAST in the upper middle class.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by KC Scott »

smackaholic wrote:KC brings up the artificially low price other countries pay for drugs. He implies that there is some sort of conspiracy here to jam americans into paying artifically high payments.

I doubt this is the case. If it was, Pfeizer and all the rest of the bandits would have off the charts earning.

They don't, to the best of my knowledge.

I think other countries get artifically low prices because, basically, they simply tell the drug companies, it's all they can pay. The drug companies figure they either take the deal which still nets them a bit of a profit on the actual manufacture of said drugs or risk that country simply counterfeiting them. In the US, they have protection against this with a little thing called patent law, therefore, they get all the RD cost's from us.

My solution to this is to tell countries that can afford to pay more such as Canada/Europe/a few other places, they will. if they are caught counterfeiting, we slap considerable tariffs on every thing we import from them.

All of the countries you mentioned have negotiated pricing with the Big Pharma companies.
It's a take it or leave it deal that the drug companies accept.

Here in US the idea has been floated as well, but the drug lobbiest have managed to block it by saying that it will destroy their R&D pipeline.
Basically they say we're financing their R&D beacuse they don't make enough margin off ROW.

It has zero to do with counterfeiting
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by JMak »

Negotiated? More like price caps imposed by those governments. Kinda what dems have been clamoring for in the US for now. They thought they could get away with advocating negotiating with Pharma when Bush expanded Medicare Rx. No-ah-ah...there's no negotiating with the US government. As a single actor it completely distorts the market.
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Dr_Phibes
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by Dr_Phibes »

88 wrote: You just drove off the rails, Scott. First of all, no one deserves to get the best available of anything. You get what you can afford.
That's a moral, ideological argument though - nothing to do with supply and demand. Every system reflects its culture's values, you've chosen to make health care a commodity.

Moral arguments are best shied away from when dealing with capitalists, best stick to basic numbers: numerical costs vs. benefits, this tends to be what capitalists like to talk about.
Alternatively, in Canada, the way the system is structured leads to the following three undeniables:

1. The healthy subsidise the sick. All pay taxes in order to fund the health system. Those who get sick use the health system, those who stay healthy do not. Therefore, the healthy end up paying for something they don't get, and the sick end up paying less than the total cost for the care they receive.

2. The wealthy subsidise the poor. The taxation system is progressive. The rich pay a higher tax-rate foot a larger percentage of the bill.

3. The young subsidise the old. The elderly members of the population tend to be the ones who experience more medical complications. Younger people are generally healthier, so the tax dollars paid by the young tend to be used to a large extent to fund the care of the elderly.

There's no legislation that sets that in stone, but the model was chosen and this is the result that has popped out. If you want moral justification I'd say this: the young take care of the old because the old once took care of the young.

It sounds rather pie in the sky, and is rarely effective when arguing about economic efficiency, but there you have it.
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by smackaholic »

Onions wrote:the dickhead power brokers running those schemes are still getting paid. many of those below them are not. plenty of middle class financial analysts are out of work. plenty of newly minted finance grads are out of work.

find me a doctor that is out of work. find me a doctor that is not AT LEAST in the upper middle class.
my bro in law is an RN. he tells me there are plenty of GPs out there working their asses off for 70K a year. That's about what I make with my college drop out/ military tech school edumacation. And, IMO, it ain't close to upper middle class. upper middle class, I would say is a buck fiddy - two hunit a year. ir it is in ct anyway.
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Diego in Seattle
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by Diego in Seattle »

Did your sister ever get her panties back from AP?
“Left Seater” wrote:So charges are around the corner?
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Dr_Phibes
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Re: Whatever happened to your Health Care debate?

Post by Dr_Phibes »

88 wrote: Phibes,

We don't disagree as much as you might think. My primary objection is in the manner in which the propose health care reform is to be implemented in the United States. We have a Constitution that is supposed to reserve power to the People and the States, with the federal government having very limited power. If the citizens of a particular state or their representatives vote to enact "moral" legislation in which the young and healthy pay for health care for the old and sick, then that would be fine. If you read my earlier post, you'd realize that I favor something along that line, provided it is run by the individual states, and not by the federal government. That is how it is supposed to work. And I wouldn't bitch about it. If I didn't like it, I could move to another state that had a better program. When the federal government does it, what are my options?
So I agree with you, your system is in trouble and the proposed solutions won't help.
I'd say that your ideas are also unworkable, I read them- you'd fracture what exists as a national system and create 52 more mini-bureaucracies and destroy any purchasing power you might have through economy of scale.
I know what you're getting at - but every criticism of the American healthcare system is that there are too many fingers in the pie - the enormous amount of money that's chucked in is being siphoned off. Creating dozens upon dozens of little offshoots doesn't sound practical to me, it might offer choice but it won't control cost - that will just exacerbate the problem.
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