T1B

Posted: **Sun Feb 21, 2010 8:32 pm**

this just in....

tall narrow short wheel based vehicles will flip if you drive them carelessly.

why the hell would you rent something like a montero if all it needed to do was haul you home and back? was 4x4 neccesary?

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:45 am**

smackaholic wrote:this just in....

tall narrow short wheel based vehicles will flip if you drive them carelessly.

why the hell would you rent something like a montero if all it needed to do was haul you home and back? was 4x4 neccesary?

I am not talking about driving carelessly. I am talking about normal, 5 mph max above the speed limit on Hwy 101, a fairly decent road for the most part.

The Montero was the only alternative to the remaining compact rental cars ( which I never would drive) left in the rental agency at 3 pm on aFriday afternoon. The 40 minute ride to Portland on the Dash 8, then an hour home ( town car - expense account) was well worth the extra money.

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2010 12:55 am**

derron, sounds like you got yourself a particularly fukked up example. i don't have much use for SUVs myself, but, i have driven a few and never found them to be as bad as what you describe. Of course, i haven't driven a montero, so maybe they are that bad. my daughter's boyfiend has one. maybe i should tell her to stay out of it. think i would have went with the POS compact. some of them actually ain't that bad. and it takes considerable effort to get one on it's roof.

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2010 1:26 am**

smackaholic wrote:derron, sounds like you got yourself a particularly fukked up example.

Yeah..I must have got the one that had some bad suspension work done to it. Mother fucker had less than 7K on it.

i don't have much use for SUVs myself, but, i have driven a few and never found them to be as bad as what you describe. Of course, i haven't driven a montero, so maybe they are that bad.

http://www.yourlawyer.com/topics/overvi ... o_rollover

Granted that link is for some dirt bag attorney..but go ahead and Google Montero roll overs and see what you come up with.

my daughter's boyfiend has one. maybe i should tell her to stay out of it.

I would, but my kids are smart enough to know their vehicles.

think i would have went with the POS compact. some of them actually ain't that bad. and it takes considerable effort to get one on it's roof.

Let's see here..I recall the rental being around $ 110 for 3 days ( 1999), and it is a good 4 to 4.5 hours to my crib from Coos Bay. Total $ 110.00 and 5 hours road time.

Round trip ticket Coos Bay to PDX ( 40 minutes) and back to Coos Bay was $ 159.00 Airport shuttle one way home $ 38 and one hour. Total $ 197.00 and 1 hour 40 minutes.

Or rent sub compact for $19 per day and get flattened like a bug...and have your ass pounded up your back bone for 5 hours. Don't think so.

Looks like I fucked up not flying home in the first place. And it was all being paid for by one of the premier golf courses in the Northwest, so what did I care anyway.

Posted: **Mon Feb 22, 2010 2:06 am**

Derron wrote: Or rent sub compact for $19 per day and get flattened like a bug...and have your ass pounded up your back bone for 5 hours. Don't think so.

we do think so.

sin-

:friday:

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:31 am**

I love how some people just want to ignore the blatant and/or negligent malfeasance of such a benevolent company.

Meanwhile, civil and criminal investigations of Toyota are begining or have begun.

Seems it may not just be a mechanical issue with the accelerator sticking that an inexpensive shim is going to fix. That may only account for a small portion of the reported 2,600 complaints. Nope, it's with the electronic fuel control module, and that's going to be very expensive.

Die, Toyota, Die.

You helped run American legends Pontiac and Oldsmobile out of business. Fuck You.

And for anyone who owns a Toyota or any foreign car for that matter, GFY.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:38 am**

pontiac, olds, saturn, plymouth etc..... ran themselves out of bidness, wags.

as for toyota's malfeasance/benevolence/whatthefukkever.... no one is arguing for or against it, at least I'm not. I'm just saying that purposely sticking their heads in the sand while knowing they had a ticking time bomb on their hands would have been an incredibly stupid thing to do. I don't know, nor do i car how malfeasant or benevolent they are, but, I think it is safe to say that the folks running the joint aren't braindead.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:16 am**

I'm just piling on.

After 20 years of getting our asses kicked by the Japs and Chinese(and now the Koreans) in basically everything, I want the tide to turn.

Yes, U.S. automakers were fat, dumb, and happy for way too long and produced some real shitpiles... I just saw a Plymouth Reliant K-car buzz past me today, how the fuck is that contraption still bolted together?

And no, I don't enjoy telling my friends and family to go EAD for owning a foreign nameplate vehicle because I understand why they do. They want something that's not going to fall apart on them after 3 years or 36,000 miles.

But the perception that American nameplates are inferior these days needs to change, because they aren't.

Of course that perception isn't going to change because of Toyota's foibles, but it won't hurt.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:22 am**

So Wags, you want to see how many thousands of Americans throughout the US put out of work? The plants throughout the southeast...the testing sites throughout the midwest...all for what? Great idea you have...let's chase away all foreign investment, you fucking moron!

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:27 am**

now you're making a little sense, wags.

i agree that domestic makes have come a long ways and are damn close, if not even with the gooks. i look forward to the day when most americans buy american makes again, because they are the best, not because they are just DMBSH.

i was going for a play on SECBSH (domestic make ball sucking homer) when i realized i had very nearly spelled dumbshit.

interesting.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:35 am**

JMak wrote:...let's chase away all foreign investment...

No, they can leave the investment and they can just go away, while Ford, GM, and Chrysler could rather smoovely take over those plants and retool.

Some part of Supply/Demand you don't understand?

And if you think we should be grateful that Toyota builds deathtraps in Kentucky using non-union labor, you may kindly go unfuck yourself.

Did that take really come from a guy who had to flee Detroit?

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:44 am**

and if all the furrin' makers picked up and went home and the big 3 went back to having 97% of the market, do you think they wouldn't go back to their same old tricks?

maybe they would, maybe they wouldn't.

i'd just as soon keep them pesky gooks and krauts around to keep the domestics honest.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:49 am**

War Wagon wrote:
No, they can leave the investment and they can just go away, while Ford, GM, and Chrysler could rather smoovely take over those plants and retool.

So they can take over the plants and infrastructure and that translates into the ability to replicate the business model that the Zips were using....AND be successful with said business model ? :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:

Ford might have a shot at it, but GM and Chrysler have proven time and again they can fuck up a steel ball.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:58 am**

they can still have a share of the Cali Prius green driven market as longshoremen still need a job.

Nahh, fuck 'em.

When the Chevy Volt comes out, those guys can go to work at that plant near San Fran that Toyota is bailing on. Just don't expect them to shop at the Whole Foods store.

I've got this all figgered out.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 1:59 am**

Wagon wrote:our asses kicked by the Japs and Chinese(and now the Koreans) in basically everything

You Asian dick eat, Wagon?

Fucking up you, War Wagon

Whitey ride dick hard in futures

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:05 am**

War Wagon wrote: Some part of Supply/Demand you don't understand?

The part where any American car maker is ready to easily move into more factories anytime soon.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:07 am**

rack pahtah for breaking out the family album and posting pics of his inlaws.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:15 am**

Derron wrote: So they can take over the plants and infrastructure and that translates into the ability to replicate the business model that the Zips were using....AND be successful with said business model?

Sure, why not? We taught them the business model over 60 years ago when we were rebuilding their shithole of an island after WWII.

And it's not so much a business model as it is a manufacturing system - producing the highest quality product at the lowest cost.

What's now called the TPS (Toyota Production System) is not a new idea or exclusive to Toyota. Jit (Just in Time) inventory and kaizen concepts were pioneered by Americans back in the 1940's, by guys like Edward Deming who went to Japan and taught them how to do it.

American manufacturing might won WW II, and we'll kick their asses again once we remember how we did it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:30 am**

Lessee here...

-Government bail-outs just to stay afloat for a few more months, which they of course pissed away.

-Entire marquees that were long past their sell-by dates, completely going under.

-Factory workers by the bazillions being let go.

-Dealerships still sitting on hordes of new, '07 inventory.

-Dealerships closing down faster than USC's D against Oregon and Stanford.

-"Trade in your clunker" offers which somehow managed to even include most any recent vintage U.S.-made vehicle, considering their incredibly horrible trade-in values.

-0.0% financing, outright bribery and offers of Jessica Biel giving a blowjob along with an oily ass-fuck at the first four scheduled service intervals, just to entice people into considering purchasing an American car.

Yeah, the U.S. auto industry is primed and ready to move into and make hay with some other maker's auto plants. Fuck, they can't even maintain any need for the ones they already have.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:31 am**

R-Jack wrote: The part where any American car maker is ready to easily move into more factories anytime soon.

You'd be surprised.

50 years ago, Ford moved their entire Leeds plant here in KC 10 miles north to Claycomo in one week. Claycomo is right now the 2nd largest Ford factory and employer in the country. They build the F-150 and Escape.

70 some years ago, the GM Fairfax plant in KC switched from making cars to aircraft for the war effort. On a dime. They now build the Malibu and LaCrosse.

Be very afraid of some very pissed off Americans, Toyota.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:36 am**

Pissed off Americans drive trucks, Caddies and muscle cars, which are the only things the U.S. auto industry ought to continue making. Chrysler no longer serves any purpose whatsoever for existing, while Ford and Chevy can barely beg, borrow or steal a customer for anything that can't be proudly parked at a Nascar gathering.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:38 am**

Van wrote: Yeah, the U.S. auto industry is primed and ready to move into and make hay with some other maker's auto plants. Fuck, they can't even maintain any need for the ones they already have.

You are an ignorant dumbfuck.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:38 am**

Van wrote:"Trade in your clunker" offers which somehow managed to even include most any recent vintage U.S.-made vehicle, considering their incredibly horrible trade-in values.

What an amazing fleecing of the American Public that was...

Trade in your American car, which gets scrapped, meaning the dealer doesn't make bank on the resale (which is generally more profitable than selling a new car). Trade it in on a foreign car, so at least those manufacturers which "stole" the American jobs in the first place make some bucks off the American taxpayer.

Oh, BTW -- did we mention we're taxing you on the "cash for clunkers" money you got? Yeah, if you traded in a "$3000"(the amount that got the $4500 kickback) used car for a foreign brand, it's quite possible you actually lost money on the deal... SUCKER.

Once again, the moral of the story -- if Big Government says something is a good idea, it isn't. Hell, if the feds told me it was smart to not go home with Katy at closing time, I'd have to risk the cooties and pound a six pack on the way to do the gnarly deed -- that's how fucking feeble this douchebag government that you people installed is.

It really is about time to line up the socialists and shoot them all. Buncha theives.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 2:50 am**

War Wagon wrote:
Van wrote: Yeah, the U.S. auto industry is primed and ready to move into and make hay with some other maker's auto plants. Fuck, they can't even maintain any need for the ones they already have.
You are an ignorant dumbfuck.

I suppose you're going to deny the massive numbers of plant closures, dealership closures and worker lay-offs within the U.S. auto industry over the past two years?

See, you'd have to, if you plan on fomenting any argument whatsoever for the U.S. auto industry needing more manufacturing plants.

That's kinda what R-Jack was getting at, salt-lick.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:05 am**

Todd, keep in mind that we're talking with a guy who's arguing the potential for U.S. makers to take over existing Japanese-run plants. This is the same guy who proudly owns a couple of vehicles that were made by a marquee which only recently went completely tits-up.

That's the kind of realistic thinking we're dealing with here.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:10 am**

Van wrote: See, you'd have to, if you plan on fomenting any argument whatsoever for the U.S. auto industry needing more manufacturing plants.

It's a trade-up. 80 year old plants for 10 year old plants. I'm a glass half full type guy

That's kinda what R-Jack was getting at, salt-lick.

I knew exactly what R-Jack was getting at but he's a pessimist. So are you. I was trying to deflect that by stating what we've done before and can do again, if miserable wet blankets like you will stop buying into Toyota

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:47 am**

When did we ever do it before? The U.S. auto industry has never countered the invasion of Japan, Inc. Ever since Toyota and Honda arrived in a big way to these shores they've steadily cut into the U.S. market-share. The U.S. makers never even slowed their own bloodletting, much less halted it. One has to go back to when the U.S. was largely the only mainstream producer of cars to find a time when they kicked ass. When the only other choices were oddball, exclusive, low-volume Euro offerings, sure, Detroit ruled the day.

Japan completely changed the game. They ruined the U.S. auto industry, whose only real response was a short-sighted turn to gas-guzzling, profit-rich SUVs, and now where are they?

The U.S. auto industry has largely been corrupt and wildly stupid during your car-buying lifetime. Now they're finally being made to pay for years of sheer gluttony, and good riddance.

Let Chevy sell trucks, 'Vettes, Caddies and Camaros.

Chrysler goes the way of Pontiac.

Ford sells trucks, Mustangs and cop cars.

There ya go. Leave everything else to those who know how to design, build and properly market 'normal' passenger vehicles such as sedans and compacts. May as well, since those types of cars have long been nothing but loss-leaders for U.S. makers.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:56 am**

Vann wrote: That's the kind of realistic thinking we're dealing with here.

Van, are your ancestors French?

Never met a situation you wouldn't surrender to and willing to go tits up at the slightest provocation.

You should learn better which way the wind blows.

Fact #1: Toyota is closing a plant in California that curently employs 5,400 people. I realize the audacity of gainful employment repulses you.

Fact #2: Toyota has idled a plant in Texas, having those workers do "maintenance" work... which is the same as saying "get ready to get in the unemployment line".

So what should or will be done with those empty facilities?

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:28 am**

War Wagon wrote:And for anyone who owns a Toyota or any foreign car for that matter, GFY.

Are you fucking retarded?

The pontiac you just bought is pretty fucking foreign

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp ... amMade0709

American Made Index...
1. Toyota Camry

Half of the top 10 are "foreign cars"

Hate to tell you those names you worship only have american roots. I bet you still think Budweiser is American Beer

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 5:05 am**

War Wagon wrote:
JMak wrote:...let's chase away all foreign investment...
No, they can leave the investment and they can just go away, while Ford, GM, and Chrysler could rather smoovely take over those plants and retool.

Some part of Supply/Demand you don't understand?

And if you think we should be grateful that Toyota builds deathtraps in Kentucky using non-union labor, you may kindly go unfuck yourself.

Did that take really come from a guy who had to flee Detroit?

Death traps? WTF? And what about Honda, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes? Send them can packing, too? You're an idiot.

No one said we should be bowing to them as our fearless President does. I said that you're cutting against tens of thousands of American workers who work in these plants and earn an income. All so you run a little nip smack. Like I said, you're an idiot.

But, hey, if you're all about expanding the size of the overpaid and overweight American carmaker workforce just so you can pay more for inferior products, well...that's your perogative.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:44 am**

War Wagon wrote:I just saw a Plymouth Reliant K-car buzz past me today, how the fuck is that contraption still bolted together?

Because it's a nice reliant automobile?

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 12:43 pm**

JMak wrote:So Wags, you want to see how many thousands of non-union Americans throughout the US put out of work?

FTFY

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 3:09 pm**

van, ford has proven they can play in the midsize market with the fusion. chevy, posssibly as well with the malibu, although it hasn't been out long enough to really know. the new focus may also be a hit from what i've read as ford finally decided to just go with the much better euro model. we'll see.

chrysler should just become a part of fiat. let them build trucks and challengers. not much else.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 4:59 pm**

Van, it wasn't up to the automakers to counter Japan, Inc. It was up to workers and unions who insisted that they keep getting grossly-inflated wages and gold-plated bennies, maintain jobs banks, etc. The companies couldve said no but then they would have faced strikes. It's really no surprise why there was a chrysler, dodge, plymouth or a ford, mercury, lincoln or a gm, gmc, chevy, pontiac, cadillac...all building the same cars with different badges and body moldings. It was to pump up the number of jobs and we all supported it.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 6:33 pm**

Go fuck yourself, JMak.

Yeah, nothing going on over at Toyota. Nothing to see. Just move along...until civil trials begin.

http://www.newsweek.com/id/233994?from= ... Stories%29

This week's congressional hearings on Toyota's safety problems are shaping up to be a lot more than the mere public shaming we've come to expect from recent corporate floggings on Capitol Hill. They could yield crucial insights that determine how Toyota's recall crisis develops in the months ahead. Already, they've brought to light internal documents that show Toyota boasted of saving $100 million by limiting a 2007 floor-mat recall to just 55,000 vehicles.

On Monday, staff members of the House Oversight Committee began examining some 5,000 more documents that Toyota has successfully fought to keep sealed for nearly two years, but that the House Oversight Committee subpoenaed last Thursday. The documents belong to a former Toyota defense attorney, Dimitrios Biller, who claims they offer proof that the company systematically withheld evidence of safety defects in cases involving more than 300 rollover accidents.

Should committee members make them public, the documents could deal a major blow to Toyota's effort to climb out of this crisis. They could also be blood in the water for trial attorneys across the country preparing to sue the world's biggest carmaker. Toyota says it's fought to keep the documents sealed because they contain information protected by attorney-client privilege, but also confidential trade secrets. Though it won't speculate on the potential damage the documents could do if made public, Toyota is clearly taking these hearings seriously: it's recently worked to shore up political support and has bolstered its D.C. lobbying operations.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:21 pm**

Not sure what that was about, screw??? I'm not pretendind that Toyota is somehow unvulnerable to lawsuits here.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 7:27 pm**

Van wrote:

An obvious American Imperialistic depiction of western propaganda.

Any self respectiving Jap aviator, sitting high in the cockpit, would fly that sum bitch with odinance hanging from it's belly, square into that flat-tops forward deck.

Lil' yellow bastards...never trusted them since Dec. 41.

Posted: **Tue Feb 23, 2010 11:50 pm**

Mr T wrote:
War Wagon wrote:And for anyone who owns a Toyota or any foreign car for that matter, GFY.
Are you fucking retarded?

The pontiac you just bought is pretty fucking foreign

http://www.cars.com/go/advice/Story.jsp ... amMade0709

American Made Index...
1. Toyota Camry

Half of the top 10 are "foreign cars"

Hate to tell you those names you worship only have american roots. I bet you still think Budweiser is American Beer

Dear Mr. Twatota

Nice link, and I'm grateful for the half that isn't "foreign", particularly #2 and #3. Bode KC.

Yet, I can also make a distinction of where the profits go.

But woah on the unfair analogy with Budweiser. That's hitting below the belt.

So, what do you drive?

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:14 am**

JMak wrote: Death traps? WTF? And what about Honda, Hyundai, BMW, Mercedes? Send them can packing, too? You're an idiot.

No one said we should be bowing to them as our fearless President does. I said that you're cutting against tens of thousands of American workers who work in these plants and earn an income. All so you run a little nip smack. Like I said, you're an idiot.

But, hey, if you're all about expanding the size of the overpaid and overweight American carmaker workforce just so you can pay more for inferior products, well...that's your perogative.

whole lotta' stupid up in that post to disect. Did you forget where to place the word 'can'?

I'll just focus on the "overpaid" part to keep it simple for dummies like you.

An average UAW worker isn't getting rich working on that assembly line. Why do you hate the middle class?

And they've given in on one issue after another trying to keep their company, and their jobs, afloat.

I'm a non-union worker myself but I make a decent wage. I can damn sure thank the unions for raising that boat.

I love how clueless morons try to demonize somebody who goes to work everyday trying to support their family as overpaid. Nobody is overpaid... or underpaid. You agree to a certain wage when you sign on and then that's what you deserve.

Posted: **Wed Feb 24, 2010 12:17 am**

Solid take, Whitey.

T1B

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