T1B

Chalk me up as an "apologist" too, but Mace is correct. It is an allegation at this point. Do I THINK he's done something wrong? Yeah, I'd guess "Big Ben" probably went snatch to ass and finished off the 2 minute drill delivering a man-mayo spiral deep in her end zone while she screamed no because hey, we all know Big Ben is clutch "in the end." But what anyone here THINKS and what is proven are 2 totally different things.

But what anyone here THINKS and what is proven are 2 totally different things.

Sincerely,

Pac Man Jones

I fully expect Goedell to do something. I don't expect him to do anything the day after the allegation comes out. Goedell does not kneejerk like most uninformed people do. I expect Goedell to let the legal system to play itself out. IF Ben is cleared, I still think Goedell will send a message with a two game suspension for his multiple episodes of issues.

Yes, bad judgement is all he is guilty of right now it seems. It may be more. Since he has had multiple encounters with bad judgement, I think Goedell acts...just like he did with Pacman Jones.

Whether he's guilty of these sexual assaults remains to be seen. It does appear this guy is a world class douche and very immature. I heard on the am dial this morning that local Pittsburgh stations were deluged recently with reports about his ultradouche behavior around town. For example, this a-hole has a habit of stiffing restaurants with huge bills. His reasoning: "I am Ben frigging Douchelisberger and my mere presence here caused your establishment to see a huge increase in patrons, and therefore, revenue. If anything, you should be paying me." Again, this remains to be seen if it's true or not. This much I do know, the stories about this bastard's douchedom are becoming legendary. At some point, the shit is really gonna start sticking to this guy.

Joe in PB wrote:Yes I refered to Ben as Rapistburger, and did say that it appears he has a drinking/sexual assault problem, but what I am talking about now is purley his drinking problem which makes him dumber than a bucket of rocks, and puts him in compromising positions. To have two allegations in little over a year seems to prove my point, well at least to me it does.

Everybody makes mistakes, live & learn, but unfortunately for Ben that isn't the case.

No, I'm not a rocket scientist, and its quite obvious that neither are you Mace. Seems your clients are rubbing off on you my friend.

Nice back pedal from the "he's a rapist" thing. :roll: I believe that I've already said that he is putting himself in bad situations and that it's possible that he has a drinking problem...not confirmed, but possible.

And please show me how my "clients are rubbing off on me", Joe, but put your mouthpiece in before you do, 'cause otherwise you're going to swallow your fucking teeth. Nothing could be further from the truth, dumbfuck, as I'm only saying that Ben deserves the benefit of the doubt until he is found guilty of something....or at the very least, actually charged with a crime and the evidence is presented so we can judge for ourselves with an informed opinion....yeah, I know that's foreign to you and mvscal, but why not give it a shot. Not once have I claimed him to be innocent of anything...not once. I've only said that I choose to wait for the evidence to come out and then make a judgment, not before.

Joe in PB wrote:No, I'm not a rocket scientist, and its quite obvious that neither are you Mace. Seems your clients are rubbing off on you my friend.

Joe, I could have told you this was going to be a problem. If you had told Mace that some of his livestock were “rubbing one off on him”, he could have swallowed that.

Exactly what evidence—much less proof—is there that Ben has a drinking problem? To the best of our knowledge, he's never:

-Gotten a DUI
-Been arrested for drunken and disorderly conduct
-Been in rehab
-Missed any team function due to an alcohol-related issue

I can't recall now, but there was no DUI with his motorcycle crash, was there?

About all we have is a pic of him wearing a drinking shirt while making a stupid face. We also have a couple of unsubstantiated allegations of sexual assult, neither of which even resulted in his arrest, much less his conviction.

So, what is there? Based on what we know, he appears to have no problem whatsoever with his drinking. He's never had a single drinking-related incident for which he even needed to apologize.

Mace wrote:And please show me how my "clients are rubbing off on me", Joe, but put your mouthpiece in before you do, 'cause otherwise you're going to swallow your fucking teeth. Nothing could be further from the truth, dumbfuck, as I'm only saying that Ben deserves the benefit of the doubt until he is found guilty of something....or at the very least, actually charged with a crime and the evidence is presented so we can judge for ourselves with an informed opinion....yeah, I know that's foreign to you and mvscal, but why not give it a shot. Not once have I claimed him to be innocent of anything...not once. I've only said that I choose to wait for the evidence to come out and then make a judgment, not before.

You did not call him a cunt.

B-

BSmack wrote: You did not call him a cunt.

B-

B-??? Don't rush to judgment here, Bri...I'm just warmin' up. There's plenty of time left on the clock.

Mace wrote:Good for you, but you're not an NFL QB either.

In other words you're indicating that everything that has gone down is because he is a NFL QB.

Yes, like it or not your clients are definitely rubbing off on you Mace.

Joe in PB wrote:

Mace wrote:Good for you, but you're not an NFL QB either.

In other words you're indicating that everything that has gone down is because he is a NFL QB.

Yes, like it or not your clients are definitely rubbing off on you Mace.

I've already addressed the meaning of that statement and I'm not going to do it again. If you're too stupid to keep up, then give it up.....cunt. :) (happy now, Bri?)

Who's backpeddling now? The fact you even tried to use that as an excuse is laughable.

Joe, the fact that you even think he has a drinking problem or a problem with rape is 100% due to his being a star QB in the NFL. Otherwise, this is a nonstory, as it has been from Day One. However, because he is a star QB in the NFL, you've gone all National Enquirer in your arm wavy—full credit to mvscal for that :D —zeal to rush to judgment. You know nothing of the guy, yet you've already concluded that he's a poor team leader, a guy with a drinking problem and probably a rapist too.

The fact that his teammates don't seem to see it that way, that doesn't seem to matter to you, even though they know his situation a whole lot better than you do. The fact that he's never been charged with or convicted of a single crime, that's also somehow a nonsequitur to you.

These facts tend to paint you as being fairly thick.

Gold digger or rape victim? Make your calls now. Don't wimp out with the innocent until proven guilty mumbo gumbo. I'm calling rape victim. I just have a feeling about this one. I have about a 90% track record when it comes to intuition. I doubt this girl planned this. Ben needs to control himself.

trev wrote:I have about a 90% track record when it comes to intuition.

Umm...

What are you laughing about?

Mace wrote:I've already addressed the meaning of that statement and I'm not going to do it again. If you're too stupid to keep up, then give it up.....cunt. :) (happy now, Bri?)

It is like a cleansing breath of fresh air.

BTW: I see that it has been broadcast all over that Ben has "lawyered up". Of course not nearly as much attention has been paid to the fact that the alleged victim has also hired legal representation. Gee, I wonder why? What does a crime victim need a lawyer for?

Van wrote:Joe, the fact that you even think he has a drinking problem or a problem with rape is 100% due to his being a star QB in the NFL.

Not quite, it has to do with two allegations within a year though.

The first allegation does look bogus based on what I've read, but he should have learned from it. Of course if he's drunk as a skunk that might explain his inability to do so.

I look at this just like I do when a person gets arrested for DUI twice within a short period of time. Even though the person hasn't been convicted yet, its fairly apparent that person has a problem with alcohol.

Only Ben hasn't been convicted even once, much less twice, nor has he even been arrested a single time.

Kinda makes your multiple-DUIs analogy fall flat.

Van wrote:Joe, the fact that you even think he has a drinking problem or a problem with rape is 100% due to his being a star QB in the NFL.

No, it's due to the two sexual assault allegations in less than a year. There are 31 other starting QBs in the NFL. Some of them are even stars. How many of them have faced multiple sexual assault allegations in less than a year?

At the absolute bare minimum here, it's clear that he is putting himself in bad situations which any reasonable individual will attribute to the fact that he is a drunken fuckwad with little or no impluse control.

Ben drinks, Ben sees, Ben rapes. It's that simple. He feels he is entitled to the pussy. After all, he's Ben Rapistburger.

I'm not usually one to go to the race card, but would we be seriously entertaining any doubts if Rapistburger was a n...igger?

mvscal wrote:

Van wrote:Joe, the fact that you even think he has a drinking problem or a problem with rape is 100% due to his being a star QB in the NFL.

No, it's due to the two sexual assault allegations in less than a year.

Allegations which he only heard about because Ben is a star QB in the NFL.

They're also allegations which probably only came up because he's a star QB in the NFL. I have a feeling that were Ben just some plumber the girls wouldn't have bothered.

There are 31 other starting QBs in the NFL. Some of them are even stars. How many of them have faced multiple sexual assault allegations in less than a year?

How many times has Ben been arrested or convicted? How many DUIs are on his record?

Christ, until he's at least charged with something, he's as clean as Peyton Manning. The DAs haven't even found enough validity to these allegations to bring charges against him.

At the absolute bare minimum here, it's clear that he is putting himself in bad situations which any reasonable individual will attribute to the fact that he is a drunken fuckwad with little or no impluse control.

He's guilty of going to nightclubs. That's it. That's all you know, and that's no crime, nor is it proof of poor judgment. You have no evidence of his ever being drunk, much less his having a drinking problem. All you know is that there are two allegations made against him, neither of which resulted in charges being filed against him.

Everything else is you going all arm wavy about absolutely nothing.

Ben drinks, Ben sees, Ben rapes. It's that simple. He feels he is entitled to the pussy. After all, he's Ben Rapistburger.

Or not.

I'm not usually one to go to the race card, but would we be seriously entertaining any doubts if Rapistburger was a n...igger?

Minus even a single DUI or arrest of any kind on his record? Yeah, I would. I'm more inclined to believe that these guys are simply easy targets for gold diggers. When there's never even an arrest made, it begins to seem like it's just opportunistic women throwing shit against a wall and hoping something will stick.

Mace wrote: As for the "role model" crap you posted......I'm the role model for my kids, not Ben, or Payton, or Tiger. If those folks are the role models for today's youth, then there's a shitload of parents not parenting.

More hyperbole. Kids determine who they look up to, beyond their parents, and they're very likely to have other role models in addition. Local sports stars (especially the local QB) have been role models for kids since before we were kids Mace. It comes with the territory.

Here is my biggest question about this whole deal...

People talk about how Big Ben is a target for a payday whenever he goes out, but why is it that he seems to be the only one who KEEPS getting accused of this shit? I mean, think of how many other "targets" there are out there who plow strange but never have these accusations come up?

It HAS to be either the fact that they know he's a dumbass and take advantage of it, OR he really is more of a dumbass than we think and really DOES force himself on skanks. I'm trying to figure this out.


edit: oh shit....I didn't read Joe in PD's post before I posted this. He was asking the same thing.

Ben is not as clean as Peyton Manning. Just the fact that he's picking up skanks in bars should tell you that.

Except that you don't know that he picked up skanks in bars. You don't know what he did there.

Besides, I'm assuming Peyton's married while I'm also assuming Ben isn't. Peyton's also older, so no, I don't expect him to be in nightclubs much anymore. For a young, single guy like Ben, going to a nightclub is pretty much par for the course.

Okay, Joe, are you listening? Here's how it happens to NFL QBs. Ben goes to a college town bar with some buddies, they're having a good time, and drinking a number of beers. College gal gets friendlly, knows that Ben is an NFL QB, and next thing you know she offers a blowjob to Big Ben and procedes to suck the jizz outta little Ben. Next step, college girl goes to the hospital and has them swab the sperm off her tonsils and claims that Ben forced her to give him head. Following me so far? They'll get DNA from Ben's semen and then call Ben to the police station to collect his DNA...of course they match, and then it's a matter of the police confirming the girl's story that Ben forced her to perform a sex act or collecting statements from witnesses that conflicts with her story and says that it's consensual. Worst case for Ben is that there are no witnesses to the sex act. Best case for Ben is that the other folks witnessed the girl come on to Ben and heard her offer the head job.
At any rate, that's a possible scenario that would dispute your contention that he committed a sexual assault while, at the same time, confirming that Ben's not so bright. A guy in his position has to be extremely cautious and not put themselves into these situations but, at the same time, he's a young guy looking for a good time, as were we all.
Since you guys are all playing "what if" with this story, I thought I would offer up a different story. So now who's the victim? I think I'll wait for the police to investigate and see if he is even charged with a crime.

Mace wrote:Okay, Joe, are you listening? Here's how it happens to NFL QBs.

Uh, no. It doesn't happen to "NFL QBs." It happens to Rapistburger and on several different occasions.

Van wrote:You have no evidence of his ever being drunk,

Shut the fuck up, idiot. Why are you even bothering to make excuses for this pathetic piece shit anyway?

Ben's a hell of a qb. He's not really Mr. Good Neighbor. He's a spoiled A-hole, and that's how he acts. Being tanked isn't going to improve this simple fact.

Ben's got to understand that he is a public figure. He can't be in public situations like this - too volatile. There's no way to evaluate the allegations at this point.

He has the money to indulge in any sort of whim he cares to. He can rent out a whole strip club every night of the week if he wants. He needs a friend who will help him be discreet and stay out of dangerous situations.

He really needs to pay his library fines, too.

Van and Mace are on target here.

Ben is almost surely guilty of ... being a colossal dumbfuck.
And prolly guilty of being a creep, too.

But it doesn't necessarily make him guilty of a crime.

Due process.

PSUFAN wrote:He really needs to pay his library fines, too.

He could stop raping women as well. That would be a good step in the right direction.

Right, mvscal, a pic of a guy wearing a goofy t-shirt while making a stupid face is proof that he's drunk, has a drinking problem and rapes women.

Or maybe it was the charges that weren't pressed on those 'several' occasions which so easily convinced you.

Jesus, mvscal, sometimes you can be quite the handwringing little girl.

mvscal wrote:

Van wrote:You have no evidence of his ever being drunk,

Shut the fuck up, idiot. Why are you even bothering to make excuses for this pathetic piece shit anyway?

You know when that picture was taken? It was in January of 2005, after Ben's Steelers had just beat the Jets in an epic overtime playoff game to seal a spot in the conference championship game. He was a rookie QB who had just authored as season for the ages like no other rookie QB ever. It was also FIVE FUCKING YEARS AGO.

Now here's how Ben looked just hours before the alleged incident courtesy of TMZ...



Now, could be back away from the Ed Hardy t-shirt rack? Hell yea. But I'd hardly say he looks wasted in that picture by any stretch.

B, dude looks like a pro wrestler halfway to John Goodmanville.

Van wrote:B, dude looks like a pro wrestler halfway to John Goodmanville.

Right now, the only thing standing between Ben and XXXXL size shirts are the off season OTAs and conditioning activities.

BSmack wrote:You know when that picture was taken? It was in January of 2005, after Ben's Steelers had just beat the Jets in an epic overtime playoff game to seal a spot in the conference championship game.

Who gives a fuck? The posting was to refute the asinine assertion that there was no evidence that Rapistburger has ever been drunk.

Then there is the fact that is is essentially impossible to to get accused of sexual assault twice in a year without being a complete stumble bum.

Ben has always looked pretty creepy. Now more than ever.

trev wrote:Ben has always looked pretty creepy. Now more than ever.

Maybe English isn't his first language. He might have a dodgy phrasebook where, "Stop! Get off me!" is translated as, "Please shove your cock up my ass!"

It's all just a terrible misunderstanding.

I can only imagine the euphemisms and clever codes practiced in the Vogel household, and christ, the things trev must cry out as you misinterpret her anguished pleas for mercy....

It's all a misunderstanding. According to Milledgeville, Ga., Police Chief Woodrow Blue they're looking to talk to a "Ben Rothenburger":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AtTvsKrN9bc

Just a simple case of mistaken identity. Nothing to see here. Move along.