Worst call in the history of MLB occured tonight in Detroit.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:09 pm

Killian wrote:I would be very surprised if Selig decided to overturn a judgement call. He would have the umpire union all over his back, and he would be opening pandora's box when it comes to situations where judgement is involved.

I think a picture of the ball in Galarraga's glove, foot on first with the runner still a yard from the bag should shut them up. Even the umpire admitted he was wrong. There's nothing to dispute here.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:13 pm

Selig will probably reverse the call. After all, he is a complete fucking idiot.

Smackie Chan · Post by **Smackie Chan** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:16 pm

BSmack wrote:I think a picture of the ball in Galarraga's glove, foot on first with the runner still a yard from the bag should shut them up. Even the umpire admitted he was wrong. There's nothing to dispute here.

There is nothing to dispute with the Denkinger call, either. Do we go back and make the Cards WS champs?

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 4:20 pm

Smackie Chan wrote:
BSmack wrote:I think a picture of the ball in Galarraga's glove, foot on first with the runner still a yard from the bag should shut them up. Even the umpire admitted he was wrong. There's nothing to dispute here.
There is nothing to dispute with the Denkinger call, either. Do we go back and make the Cards WS champs?

Why not? Just another kick in the nuts for KC. They're used to it.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:00 pm

Smackie Chan wrote:
BSmack wrote:I think a picture of the ball in Galarraga's glove, foot on first with the runner still a yard from the bag should shut them up. Even the umpire admitted he was wrong. There's nothing to dispute here.
There is nothing to dispute with the Denkinger call, either. Do we go back and make the Cards WS champs?

Are you seriously arguing that righting one wrong is impossible because of another wrong committed 25 years ago?

Van · Post by **Van** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:07 pm

With the ump having so fully owned his mistake, it'll be interesting to see what sort of reaction he receives tonight since he's apparently going to be behind the plate.

God knows the people of Detroit are well used to the idea of fucking up, considering the entire city is in the toilet due to their auto industry fuck ups. Amid the boos he'll surely receive, I wouldn't be surprised to see them give him a classy ovation.

Now if this had been Philly? Christ.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:28 pm

BSmack wrote:
Killian wrote:I would be very surprised if Selig decided to overturn a judgement call. He would have the umpire union all over his back, and he would be opening pandora's box when it comes to situations where judgement is involved.
I think a picture of the ball in Galarraga's glove, foot on first with the runner still a yard from the bag should shut them up. Even the umpire admitted he was wrong. There's nothing to dispute here.

I didn't say there was anything to dispute. He fucked up a call that had zero impact on deciding who won or lost. If he over turns this, he then has the umpire union thinking that they have a boss who won't back them up, and he sets a dangerous precedent. What happens when the Twins win a game on a disputed call that costs the other team the game, and the team that's chasing the Twins a game in the standings? It's a fuck up, plain and simple. The main people involved have come to terms with the shitty call, so should everyone else.

Van,

Galarraga took the line up card out to Joyce today and there was a round of applause. The umps were only slightly booed when Joyce had his name announced. Good on ya, Detroit.

Smackie Chan · Post by **Smackie Chan** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 5:33 pm

BSmack wrote:
Smackie Chan wrote:There is nothing to dispute with the Denkinger call, either. Do we go back and make the Cards WS champs?
Are you seriously arguing that righting one wrong is impossible because of another wrong committed 25 years ago?

I'm not arguing anything, and where did I mention impossibility? I'm asking you a question. Is there a statute of limitations on reversing indisputable judgment calls? Seems to me the only reason this is being discussed is because of the perceived historical impact. It's not just a perfect game, but one that would set a record for the most in a season and would be the first in a franchise's history. If Galarraga had a one-hitter going instead of a perfecto, it would be just one of many blown calls and no one would be clamoring for a reversal. But because it has historical significance, which fans seem to consider important, consideration is being given to possibly reverse it. So is historical significance the litmus test for deciding whether a judgment call should be reversed?

Are you seriously arguing that a game in early June in which the outcome is not in question is more important than the outcome of a World Series?

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 6:54 pm

Smackie Chan wrote:
BSmack wrote:Are you seriously arguing that righting one wrong is impossible because of another wrong committed 25 years ago?
I'm not arguing anything, and where did I mention impossibility?

It was clearly your inference.

I'm asking you a question. Is there a statute of limitations on reversing indisputable judgment calls? Seems to me the only reason this is being discussed is because of the perceived historical impact. It's not just a perfect game, but one that would set a record for the most in a season and would be the first in a franchise's history. If Galarraga had a one-hitter going instead of a perfecto, it would be just one of many blown calls and no one would be clamoring for a reversal. But because it has historical significance, which fans seem to consider important, consideration is being given to possibly reverse it. So is historical significance the litmus test for deciding whether a judgment call should be reversed?

Are you seriously arguing that a game in early June in which the outcome is not in question is more important than the outcome of a World Series?

For one thing, the Denkinger call did not end the game. Orta wasn't even the winning run when he was called safe at first. The Cards still had the opportunity to stop the Royals from scoring and they failed miserably. And even after blowing that game, the Cards could have come back to win game 7. But they were so cowed by the presence of Denkinger behind home plate that they mailed it in. Instead of handling their business, the Cards melted in epic fashion. So comparing this case to the Denkinger call is just stupid.

Moving Sale · Post by **Moving Sale** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:10 pm

Killian wrote:I agree with your overall point, but I think he would be starting down a slippery slope.

They could easily slip in the old Bush v Gore “limited to the present circumstances” yarn and be done with it.

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Thu Jun 03, 2010 8:25 pm

Killian wrote:
Galarraga took the line up card out to Joyce today and there was a round of applause. The umps were only slightly booed when Joyce had his name announced. Good on ya, Detroit.

Nice touch by all involved.

RACK the Tigers and RACK baseball.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 4:38 pm

Mikey wrote:
Killian wrote:
Galarraga took the line up card out to Joyce today and there was a round of applause. The umps were only slightly booed when Joyce had his name announced. Good on ya, Detroit.
Nice touch by all involved.

RACK the Tigers and RACK baseball.

I'm so over the whole thing at this point. I've seen the replay enough...I didn't think Selig had to reverse the call...the two principles involved handled the situation with a lot of class. Leave it to the sports news cycle to milk this story for all it's worth but as far as I'm concerned, they won the game and then won again yesterday...onward and upward. I've definitely grown a new found respect for Galarraga...what a good dude.

Shoalzie · Post by **Shoalzie** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 5:42 pm

I liked the fluff piece Jeremy Schaap did on Galarraga during last night's SportsCenter...it was sappy but it summed up what I think of the whole thing. The sportsmanship thing should win out over all this other crap. Handle a disappointment with some dignity and grace...could you imagine how a big of a melt Carlos Zambrano would've had if it happened him?

And to the reports of people sending threats to Joyce and his family...lighten up, Francis...damn! Be outraged about the oil spill in the Gulf...this was a fucking game.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:14 pm

Shoalzie wrote:And to the reports of people sending threats to Joyce and his family...lighten up, Francis...damn! Be outraged about the oil spill in the Gulf...

So Jim Joyce also caused that fucking oil spill? Hang the fucker!

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:18 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:So Jim Joyce also caused that fucking oil spill? Hang the fucker!

No, but I'm sure you could use that key west ball tickler on his upper lip to soak up most of the oil.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:34 pm

James Joyce lives in Beaverton.

Way to go, Homey.

Arch Angel · Post by **Arch Angel** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 6:59 pm

Shoalzie wrote:I liked the fluff piece Jeremy Schaap did on Galarraga during last night's SportsCenter...it was sappy but it summed up what I think of the whole thing. The sportsmanship thing should win out over all this other crap. Handle a disappointment with some dignity and grace...could you imagine how a big of a melt Carlos Zambrano would've had if it happened him?

And to the reports of people sending threats to Joyce and his family...lighten up, Francis...damn! Be outraged about the oil spill in the Gulf...this was a fucking game.

He would be in the pokey right now due to an assault or possibly attempted murder charge. I could picture a WWE style brawl with players trying to hold him back from destroying Joyce.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Fri Jun 04, 2010 11:43 pm

Was it a bad call?

Hell yes.

Worst in history?

Nahhh

The pitcher covering first is a PITA call for umps. Lots of shit going on, two guys running, one trying to catch he ball. It's a million times more difficult than the usual 1st baseman stretched out catching a throw.

In the typical play if it's close, the call is made pretty much by ear.You listen for the pop of the glove and the thump of the guys foot on the bag, two distinct sounds. you don't have that here because the balls not coming quickly. in this case you gotta have one eye on two pairs of running legs and one eye on whether he cleanly fields the ball.

i think they should go to replays in this instance. i think the replay call should be solely the judgement of the two guys who usually know the truf. the runner and the fielder. it should not be the call of the manager.

as for what kind of incentives could be used to discourage the calls, that's a tough one. there are no timeouts to give away. i think it would simply need to be a case of monitoring who's calling for replays and how often. if a player is shown to use it often and is wrong a significant amount of time, fine his ass or bench him.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:00 am

smackaholic wrote:The pitcher covering first is a PITA call for umps. Lots of shit going on, two guys running, one trying to catch he ball. It's a million times more difficult than the usual 1st baseman stretched out catching a throw.

Not really. Same rule applies in that situation: keep your eye on the bag until the ball is caught or until a foot touches the base. If the ball gets dropped then that will happen after the fact. Joyce had a bad angle, and angles can play tricks on your vision. Maybe the situation of that call got to him mentally as well, who knows.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 2:14 am

I'd be all for a correction being made during the game, immediately following the umpire's mistake, but to entertain the idea of the commish coming in in the day(s) after the game and making a wrong right -- is g@y beyond belief.

Slippery slope and it's just stoopid x forever.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:28 am

BSmack wrote: For one thing, the Denkinger call did not end the game. Orta wasn't even the winning run when he was called safe at first. The Cards still had the opportunity to stop the Royals from scoring and they failed miserably. And even after blowing that game, the Cards could have come back to win game 7. But they were so cowed by the presence of Denkinger behind home plate that they mailed it in. Instead of handling their business, the Cards melted in epic fashion. So comparing this case to the Denkinger call is just stupid.

err...

Dane Iorg rules.

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:41 am

I'm just wondering what the fallout would be if the situation was reversed and Gallaraga got a perfect game on an out call when the runner clearly beat the throw?

I'm guessing you would see more people say how Gallaraga deserved a "pitchers call" for getting so far and we wouldn't have much of an ESPN sponsored debate over instant replay in fucking baseball.

I just hope the people who went the "Grow a set. It's part of the game" route regarding the latest Super Bowl debate aren't the ones all butt-hurt over this kid not getting a perfecto based on a bad call.

smackaholic · Post by **smackaholic** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 12:22 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
smackaholic wrote:The pitcher covering first is a PITA call for umps. Lots of shit going on, two guys running, one trying to catch he ball. It's a million times more difficult than the usual 1st baseman stretched out catching a throw.
Not really. Same rule applies in that situation: keep your eye on the bag until the ball is caught or until a foot touches the base. If the ball gets dropped then that will happen after the fact. Joyce had a bad angle, and angles can play tricks on your vision. Maybe the situation of that call got to him mentally as well, who knows.

yes really. how the fukk do you "keep your eye on the bag until the ball is caught" ? if your eye is on the ball, you'll have difficulty judging when the ball is caught. and in this type of play, the ball is reglarly bobbled, so you have to be watching that closely.

once again, not defending this guy because it was soooo not close, but, you do have to consider the nature of the play. given that nature, i don't rank this as worst evah.

you know what would be nice. it would be nice if baseball was treated like golf and there was an expectation of self refereeing. on these plays there is always one, maybe two people that know what happened. they are the runner and 1st baseman or in this case, pitcher. unfortunately, baseball doesn't work that way. it would have been nice if the runner would have looked at the ref and said, sorry dude, but, I was out by a step and a half. you could tell by the look on his face that the runner was pretty much thinking that.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 1:06 pm

smackaholic wrote:yes really. how the fukk do you "keep your eye on the bag until the ball is caught" ?

That's why they pay MLB umps 6 figure salaries. Because they know how to do exactly that. And when they forget, you have a story.

BTW: As I always heard it, you keep your eye on the bag and listen for the ball to hit the glove. If you hear the ball hit and the runner hasn't touched the bag, he's out.

Wolfman · Post by **Wolfman** » Sat Jun 05, 2010 3:47 pm

^^^^
basically the accepted mechanic--- see that the ball is on the way, then look at the bag for the feet of the fielder and base runner. Obviously "blue" blew it and is still looking for the ball. He probably has done it correctly thousands of times, but when he didn't it became the topic of conversation for some time to come. Luckily if I blow a call in a high school softball game, there are no cameras around to document it. If a coach asks me about a call that I feel I may have booted, I usually tell him that I sure would like to have another look at it.

Mace · Post by **Mace** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:21 am

Killian wrote:
BSmack wrote:If they can retroactively allow George Brett's "pine tar" home run, the league President can retroactively call that runner out.
No, they can't. Brett's homerun was a rule dispute. This was not. It was just a choke job.

It was a "rule dispute" where the umpire made the correct call (by the rules of the game) and the league office didn't have the balls to back McClelland.

I'll never be in favor of instant replay in baseball simply because the human element is a very important part of the charm of baseball.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:38 am

What was so charming about dicking an easy call, thus killing a kid's perfect game?

That wasn't charming. It was ugly, unfortunate and preventable.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 3:59 am

So was your 1st marriage, what's your point?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:36 am

NO Love and Relationships forum on this board??

Can't.
Believe.
That.

*hic*

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:21 am

Unrack Whitey.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:32 pm

Why? That was one of the lowest, most classless things anyone ever posted here.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:35 pm

Van wrote:Why? That was one of the lowest, most classless things anyone ever posted here.

Imagine how I feel.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 4:49 pm

I'd rather not.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 5:40 pm

Van wrote:Why? That was one of the lowest, most classless things anyone ever posted here.

I can't find anything in my spreadsheet about your first marriage, so I'll have to go with, "Hey, it's a fucking smack board." I do know that my lovely bride shoots me a nasty look every time I introduce her to someone as my first wife.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:22 pm

Van wrote:Why? That was one of the lowest, most classless things anyone ever posted here.

Yeah, it probably was hitting below the belt. My bad, just trying to get you to put a blown call and perfect game in perspective.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:27 pm

You failed. Horribly.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:29 pm

War Wagon wrote:Yeah, it probably was hitting below the belt. My bad, just trying to get you to put a blown call and perfect game in perspective.

Yeah, that was pretty stupid of you.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:41 pm

For all your "I'm a good, Christian guy and a solid, upstanding father" bullshit, Wags, the truth comes out: You're a complete fucking dirtbag, and the worst kind of moral fraud.

Good to know.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:45 pm

Well, at least I diverted your attention away from whining about a bad call, which was my intention.

Van · Post by **Van** » Sun Jun 06, 2010 7:57 pm

That's your excuse, and you're sticking to it? Yep, you truly are a dirtbag.