T1B

The Seer wrote:No person that will EVER be affiliated with or have anything to do with n.d. or any other team or institution of your liking will approach the accomplishments or stake a place in history remotely close to Wooden.

Just fucking deal with it.

Rack Seer.

Sin,

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

The Seer wrote:No person that will EVER be affiliated with or have anything to do with n.d. or any other team or institution of your liking will approach the accomplishments or stake a place in history remotely close to Wooden.

Just fucking deal with it.

Rack Seer.

Sin,

Rockne was a cheater - back then they were able to do things that are today not allowed.

Therefore, his statue and legacy should be deleted....

Sincerely,

Killian

The Seer wrote:

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

The Seer wrote:No person that will EVER be affiliated with or have anything to do with n.d. or any other team or institution of your liking will approach the accomplishments or stake a place in history remotely close to Wooden.

Just fucking deal with it.

Rack Seer.

Sin,

Rockne was a cheater - back then they were able to do things that are today not allowed.

Therefore, his statue and legacy should be deleted....

Sincerely,

Killian

If you want to go ahead and link up the NCAA sanctions that were given to ND as a result of Rockne and his teams, I'd really appreciate it. If not, continue to burry your head in the sand and shut the fuck up.

I'll admit all of Rockne's faults. He was the Tom Izzo of the 20's, constantly courting other teams and even going as far as to agree to contracts with them.

And to your point:

No person that will EVER be affiliated with or have anything to do with n.d. or any other team or institution of your liking will approach the accomplishments or stake a place in history remotely close to Wooden.

Rockne revolutionized the game as a player (use of the forward pass) and as a coach (two platoon football, among many other things). Can you say the same about Wooden?

The Seer wrote:Rockne was a cheater - back then they were able to do things that are today not allowed.

If these things Rockne did that are outlawed now but were allowed back then, would that really be cheating?

Killian wrote: Rockne revolutionized the game as a player (use of the forward pass) and as a coach (two platoon football, among many other things). Can you say the same about Wooden?

If you are intentionally trying to display your ignorance of college hoops, you are very successful. You can't watch a college game without some commentator referring to the "UCLA press", the UCLA "High Post Offense", etc. etc...

There will never be a discussion of the greatest college coaches in the history of athletics without mentioning John Wooden. His achievements will NEVER be approached. EVER.

If his death inspired you to reflexively attempt to discredit his accomplishments with mistakes made by a booster that had no affect on what happened on the court, then have at it.

There are those that try to elevate themselves by disparaging someone else. It doesn't work - and in most cases makes that person smaller. My comment about ND coaches was obviously reactive and not well thought out concerning Rockne. Your comments about Wooden being something other than legendary speak for themselves.

Goober's dog in this fight must be boredom.

Not sure that I have a dog, and not convinced it's much of a fight. John Wooden was a great college basketball coach, but his program was dirty. Period. I see you neglected to answer my question.

So, Seer, going back to my post where I said:

Rockne revolutionized the game as a player (use of the forward pass) and as a coach (two platoon football, among many other things). Can you say the same about Wooden?

I know Wooden revolutionized the game as a coach. How did he do it as a player?

Oh, and this is just fucking priceless:

TheSeer wrote:If his death inspired you to reflexively attempt to discredit his accomplishments with mistakes made by a booster that had no affect on what happened on the court, then have at it.

First of all, re-read all of my takes in this thread on Wooden. You got your tit so caught in a ringer about someone calling St. Wooden a cheater, you neglected to read everything that was said. Wooden's teams, like it or not, were known to be dirty. You can turn a blind eye or do whatever the fuck you want to do, but people who follow the sport recognize that fact.

And didn't have an affect on what happened on the court? Give me a fucking break. Unless you consider cash given to high school recruits who helped garner all that success on court as not having an affect, this is beyond assinine.

Killian wrote:So, Seer, going back to my post where I said:

Rockne revolutionized the game as a player (use of the forward pass) and as a coach (two platoon football, among many other things). Can you say the same about Wooden?

I know Wooden revolutionized the game as a coach. How did he do it as a player?

Oh, and this is just fucking priceless:

TheSeer wrote:If his death inspired you to reflexively attempt to discredit his accomplishments with mistakes made by a booster that had no affect on what happened on the court, then have at it.

First of all, re-read all of my takes in this thread on Wooden. You got your tit so caught in a ringer about someone calling St. Wooden a cheater, you neglected to read everything that was said. Wooden's teams, like it or not, were known to be dirty. You can turn a blind eye or do whatever the fuck you want to do, but people who follow the sport recognize that fact.

And didn't have an affect on what happened on the court? Give me a fucking break. Unless you consider cash given to high school recruits who helped garner all that success on court as not having an affect, this is beyond assinine.

You are having a tough time with this. Wooden played a little ball himself; but this whole topic was about you discrediting his achievements as a coach. If you are trying to say the only reason players went to Ucla was for a few burgers or whatever, then you're beyond stupid. He won a few championships before Sam arrived on the scene. Players knew of Wooden and Ucla and that was enough to draw them. Schools other than UCLA had more talent over the years; sent more players to the league...(of course without helping the players at all with goodies).... Ya know, I can't believe I'm typing here trying to establish facts the world except killian knows...If you want history lessons, I may have to charge you for my time. Okay?

Goober McTuber wrote: If these things Rockne did that are outlawed now but were allowed back then, would that really be cheating?

Don't get my irrational Killian-like slur on Rockne confused with facts...who the Hell knows what people did back then....

However...

1. Coach A uses certain tactics that created wins.
2. Those tactics became disallowed.
3. Coach B uses certain tactics that created wins (after rule change).
4. Coach B would be accused of violating rules.
5. Coach B would be just as skillful at creating wins as Coach A, but would've done it illegally.
6. Coach B would've demonstrated he can break rules but coach equally effective as Coach A.

The Seer wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote: If these things Rockne did that are outlawed now but were allowed back then, would that really be cheating?

Don't get my irrational Killian-like slur on Rockne confused with facts...who the Hell knows what people did back then....

However...

1. Coach A uses certain tactics that created wins.
2. Those tactics became disallowed.
3. Coach B uses certain tactics that created wins (after rule change).
4. Coach B would be accused of violating rules.
5. Coach B would be just as skillful at creating wins as Coach A, but would've done it illegally.
6. Coach B would've demonstrated he can break rules but coach equally effective as Coach A.

I can only guess what point you're trying to make here, but I have to assume that Coach A is Rockne. But whatever, based on your scenario, Coach A won without cheating, Coach B cheated.

And other than Wooden's first two championship teams, please explain which teams had more talent than UCLA late 60s to mid 70s.

The Seer wrote: You are having a tough time with this. Wooden played a little ball himself; but this whole topic was about you discrediting his achievements as a coach. If you are trying to say the only reason players went to Ucla was for a few burgers or whatever, then you're beyond stupid. He won a few championships before Sam arrived on the scene. Players knew of Wooden and Ucla and that was enough to draw them. Schools other than UCLA had more talent over the years; sent more players to the league...(of course without helping the players at all with goodies).... Ya know, I can't believe I'm typing here trying to establish facts the world except killian knows...If you want history lessons, I may have to charge you for my time. Okay?

Was this your way of yelling at me? I know you already admitted your ignorance about Rockne earlier, but I wanted to make sure you can read. Obviously, you can't. As I said here:

Killian wrote:Wooden was a great leader of young men, a great coach, and a father figure to many.

I'm not discrediting anything. I said he was a good coach. His teams were also dirty. If you want to think that it was just "a couple of burgers", fine. If that's what you want to call providing money, clothes, transportation and abortions (allegedly ) I can't change your mind. But don't ever mention anything in the college football forum about USC cheating or being dirty.

History lesson? You're the one that should open an objective eye to your program. I guess that's a hard thing to do in LA. And in all sincerity, go ahead and let us know who produced more NBA talent than UCLA during that time, and what teams had more talent while playing in college. I would be interested to see that.