Mr. Tebow

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Sep 01, 2011 3:32 pm

poptart wrote:The guy is hyper-competetive, he's a very good athlete, he's a worker, he keeps himself very fit, he's mobile, he's smart...

Tebow's a hard worker because he has to make up for the fact that he sucks. There are a lot of other guys who possess those attributes, but can also play the position.

jiminphilly · Post by **jiminphilly** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 4:15 pm

Screw_Michigan wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:McNabb, while a good athlete, can also stand tall in the pocket and deliver bullets down field with accuracy
I don't know about that last part. Jiminsilly would agree with me.

McNabb's long game has always been better than his short one. In his prime, McNabb was pretty good but he continued to bulk up and his mobility decreased impacting his entire game. Tebow can't beat out Brady Quinn. 'nuff said.

And for the love of God would people please stop using pro-bowl appearances as anything that carries significant weight when debating how good a player is? Pro-Bowls are popularity contests.

Goober McTuber · Post by **Goober McTuber** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:08 pm

jiminphilly wrote:
Screw_Michigan wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:McNabb, while a good athlete, can also stand tall in the pocket and deliver bullets down field with accuracy
I don't know about that last part. Jiminsilly would agree with me.

McNabb's long game has always been better than his short one. In his prime, McNabb was pretty good but he continued to bulk up and his mobility decreased impacting his entire game. Tebow can't beat out Brady Quinn. 'nuff said.

And for the love of God would people please stop using pro-bowl appearances as anything that carries significant weight when debating how good a player is? Pro-Bowls are popularity contests.

If Pro-Bowls are popularity contests, Tebow should have been to 4 of them already.

indyfrisco · Post by **indyfrisco** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:10 pm

Goober McTuber wrote:If Pro-Bowls are popularity contests, Tebow should have been to 4 of them already.

Yeah, but they plan to correct this error and rename it the Pro-Tebowl.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 5:25 pm

It's a given that he'll lead the league in turning-water-to-wine every season.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:01 pm

Tebow should be the Gatorade dumper, that way he can baptise the head coach at the same time.

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:36 pm

Sudden Sam wrote:Career QB Rating:

Tebow: 82.1

McNabb: 85.7

McNabb's played a couple more games.

In McNabb's second year, he was an MVP canidate.
In Tebow's second year, he dropped two spots on the depth chart.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Sep 01, 2011 6:40 pm

I'd think there's some level of respect there. When his teammates shaved his head like a wacked out monk, he just rolled with it, and kept grinding in practice. On the flip side, they probably get tired of a 3rd string qb who hasn't done jack in the League getting more pub than they do.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Thu Sep 01, 2011 9:26 pm

jiminphilly wrote:And for the love of God would people please stop using pro-bowl appearances as anything that carries significant weight when debating how good a player is? Pro-Bowls are ~~popularity contests~~ meaningless.

Fixed.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 2:28 am

Tebow may have a lot of fans, but do his teammates like him? Do fellow NFLers like him?

My guess is his own teammates like him.

By all accounts, he's a good teammate, he works his ass off, and he doesn't stir any shit up.

My guess is other NFLers don't care for him very much.

Too much hype and unwarranted attention.

I think they now are LAFFING at him - being a 3rd stringer.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 3:57 am

jiminphilly wrote:Tebow can't beat out Brady Quinn. 'nuff said.

Not really. If anything, you make a case for Tebow. Gaydy Quinn was a 22nd overall pick and a very highly regarded prospect coming out of college. If he ever decided to get as interested in football as he is in thick cocks up his ass, he could be a top ten QB.

Tebow was 25th overall and was a very obvious project player. His biggest problem is that he was a Josh McDouchedrip pick. Still there is no reason for the Donks not to be patient. He has played well in limited action.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Fri Sep 02, 2011 4:16 pm

mvscal wrote:Still there is no reason for the Donks not to be patient.

They have no other choice. He sucks balls, and can't hit the broad side of a barn, hence the demotions. He will not be a successful starting quarterback in this league with his current skill set, and fundamentally changing the way he plays is not going to be easy. There are sophomore quarterbacks in college who are more NFL ready than he is, so if he's gonna get good, he'd better do it quickly.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 9:53 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:so if he's gonna get good, he'd better do it quickly.

Steve McNair thinks you're full of shit...or at least he would if he wasn't dead. So does Philip Rivers.

R-Jack · Post by **R-Jack** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:06 pm

Neither of those two were falling on the depth chart in their second season.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 10:20 pm

Neither of them were expected to contribute much of anything either. I don't suppose it ever occured to anyone that Dungver might want to put some effort into seeing what they've got in Quinn? They know Tebow isn't ready this year, so why not find out what you've got in this other 1st round pick?

Statistically, it's a wipeout. Tebow is much more efficient than Quinn. The new rule change about carrying 3rd QBs on the roster makes this a sensible move. They can have Quinn at #2 and freely use Tebow in certain packages. He did score 11 TDs in three starts and limited action elsewhere. That's pretty good production from a "project player." You let him learn and use him in certain situations throughout the season.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Sep 04, 2011 2:22 am

mvscal wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:so if he's gonna get good, he'd better do it quickly.
Steve McNair thinks you're full of shit...or at least he would if he wasn't dead. So does Philip Rivers.

This is getting stupid. People are just posting random players who started slow and saying, "Seeeeeee? Tebow can doooooooo it!"

Give me your prediction. Does Tebow become a successful starting QB in the NFL? Yes or no?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sun Sep 04, 2011 4:00 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: This is getting stupid. People are just posting random players who started slow and saying, "Seeeeeee? Tebow can doooooooo it!"

Give me your prediction. Does Tebow become a successful starting QB in the NFL? Yes or no?

I already did. On this thread last year I said he would sit his first two years. He has already had success (11 TDs) as a project player and there is no reason to believe that he won't continue to enjoy similar success while he learns even more this year.

Yes, I think he'll be a successful starting QB in the NFL. I'm not really even sure why your lady parts are dripping this soon. It's OK to spend a 1st round pick on a QB and let him sit for a couple years...really.

Breathe into a paper bag if necessary.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Sun Sep 04, 2011 3:56 pm

It's OK to spend a 1st round pick on a QB and let him sit for a couple years...really.

Of course it is. It's just stupid to assume he's going to get off that bench with those mechanics, which will not be easily correctable.

Breathe into a paper bag if necessary.

Ahh, the old, if you disagree with me you must be melting Sirfindafold school of smack. Lame. You should be above that nonsense.

.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Mon Sep 05, 2011 2:50 am

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
It's OK to spend a 1st round pick on a QB and let him sit for a couple years...really.
Of course it is. It's just stupid to assume he's going to get off that bench with those mechanics, which will not be easily correctable.

His "mechanics" didn't seem to prevent him from scoring 66 points last year. Personally, I think he's right on track. You hop around and wave your arms about "mechanics" one week and meanwhile next week:

Tebow, meanwhile, still had his moments of locking onto a single receiver, but he played with more restraint than other games. Tebow (7 for 11, 116 yards, one touchdown) pulled up a few times and passed on the move rather than take off. His mobility actually helped behind second- and third-team lines that could undergo major renovations in the coming days.

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... z1X2h4FaJV

oh and...

Quinn appeared to have the inside track to the No. 2 position with his steadier play through practices and games through August. But then Quinn (4 for 12, 26 yards, one interception) came out Thursday night and looked indecisive, inaccurate and intent on forcing the ball. It was a flashback to the Quinn who originally joined the Broncos and struggled last summer.

Read more: http://aol.sportingnews.com/nfl/story/2 ... z1X2hKKNJe

Just calm down. You think he might possibly learn a little something this year?

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:07 am

My prediction, Mgo, is that at some point Tebow will be a starter and - will have some degree of success.
No Hall of Famer, but I think he will hold down a #1 QB job for a few seasons.

If he ends up going to the Dallas Cowboys, however, I will revise my take.
He'll be the next Roger Staubach.[/YaFJ]

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Sep 08, 2011 6:44 pm

mvscal wrote:His "mechanics" didn't seem to prevent him from scoring 66 points last year.

You really seem to be hanging onto this as if it means even the slightest bit of fuck. The Broncos were so impressed with last year's statistics they rewarded him with two demotions.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:27 pm

Yes, touchdowns matter. Sad that this needs to be explained to you. I would suggest that you don't know nearly as much about pro football as you seem to think.

Melt on...

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Thu Sep 08, 2011 9:48 pm

Yes, touchdowns matter.

Not in the form of depth chart status, apparently.

I would suggest that you don't know nearly as much about pro football as you seem to think.

Please. It's hardly just my opinion. Several former players and quarterbacks have basically said the guy is fucked.

Melt on...

melting = disagreeing with mvscal

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:09 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:
Yes, touchdowns matter.
Not in the form of depth chart status, apparently.

Denver Broncos Depth Chart Lists Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow As No. 2 QBs

http://denver.sbnation.com/denver-bronc ... ck-backups

Apparently not...and certainly not when it comes to actual playing time and production on the field.

Please. It's hardly just my opinion. Several former players and quarterbacks have basically said the guy is fucked.

Who gives a fuck? I can find a hell of a lot more than several who think he'll be fine.

melting = disagreeing with mvscal

No, melting is trying to claim that the guy is a complete failure based on two preseason games following an offseason lockout. It is a pitifully stupid position to take as well.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial · Fri Sep 09, 2011 1:02 pm

No, melting is trying to claim that the guy is a complete failure based on two preseason games following an offseason lockout.

That's not a "melt," idiot, that's called an opinion. And my opinion is hardly based on that and that alone. Tebow didn't/won't grade out as an NFL qb before, during, or after any of that. Great college player, but not an NFL qb.

It is a pitifully stupid position to take as well.

No, a pitifully stupid position is saying Tim Tebow is going to be good because Phillip Rivers is good. If your argument is that it's possible Tebow could succeed, fine. If your argument is that he WILL be a good starting qb, well, you're in the minority there and the odds are definitely stacked against you. You just want to play the contrarian, and you know it.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 3:02 pm

mvscal wrote:Who gives a fuck? I can find a hell of a lot more than several who think he'll be fine.

Link?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:06 pm

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:No, a pitifully stupid position is saying Tim Tebow is going to be good because Phillip Rivers is good.

No, the argument is that it's OK to let your QB sit for a couple years and learn. Rivers did it mostly because Brees decided to become an actual NFL QB and partly because his "mechanics" were also said to need work. Steve McNair was drafted 3rd overall and wasn't even close to being ready. They both sat and learned for two years. If you had judged either one of them after one season and a couple preseason games, you would be a fucking idiot and, make no mistake, you are a fucking idiot.

The entire "he's going to fail because of his mechanics" meme is so patently stupid it really doesn't even merit a response. The kid has succeeded brillliantly at every level of career and, considering his limited PT, has been successful in the NFL also. What the fuck else do you want?

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:45 pm

Sounds a lot like Vince Young.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 6:58 pm

Except that Young didn't sit for two years and he probably should have. He definitely lacked the maturity to handle the pressure and his "mechanics" could have used a little work, too.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:07 pm

Yeah, he was selected for the Pro Bowl his first year. Now he's a back-up.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:36 pm

Just think how much better Favre's mechanics would be if he sat another year behind Chris Mller.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 7:42 pm

Dinsdale wrote:Just think how much better Favre's mechanics would be if he sat another year behind Chris Mller.

Or Don Majkowski?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:32 pm

Killian wrote:Now he's a back-up.

So was Vick. A year on the bench will do him good.

Killian · Post by **Killian** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 12:01 am

mvscal wrote:
Killian wrote:Now he's a back-up.
So was Vick. A year on the bench will do him good.

Because both of those are completely analogous. They both were back ups because they both were in jail for over a year. It wasn't because one of them sucked balls and couldn't hack it as a starter.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Sep 10, 2011 3:26 am

Killian wrote:
mvscal wrote:
Killian wrote:Now he's a back-up.
So was Vick. A year on the bench will do him good.
Because both of those are completely analogous.

Yes, they are. The facts you chose to compare are simply irrelevant. They both started right out of the gate and never really got to slow down before they both imploded. Now they are/were looking to revive their careers elsewhere. They've both gotten the wake up call.

Vick was a far more technically proficient QB last year than he has been at any other point in his career. You could tell by watching him that he was seeing the field and his accuracy was dramatically improved. He finally learned how to play quarterback rather than being an athlete taking snaps from center. Spending a year on the bench did Vick's game a world of good. Young now has the same opportunity.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:29 am

Killian wrote:Yeah, he was selected for the Pro Bowl his first year. Now he's a back-up.

Young was an alternate. He played in the Pro Bowl because Phillip Rivers was injured.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 4:16 am

Coming out of college, Teblow was a 'project' QB.
It was a given.
He was projected to go 2nd, 3rd, 4th round...

Dungver shook that up by reaching for him in round 1.
So all of a sudden some expectations began to change.

The Hee Haw's idiotic draft move doesn't change MY perception of him, which was that he was going to have to sit and learn on Sundays - and work his ass off inbetween.

Quit looking at him like he was a 1st rounder and look at him like any other 2nd, 3rd, or 4th rounder.
Guys in that area normally take some time to develop.
Some make it, most don't.

Maybe the biggest determining factor with these guys is their willingness to bust their ass to make it happen.
I don't doubt that Tebow (who also has many physical tools) will be busting his ass.

I think he has a reasonable shot at making it as a starter... down the road a bit.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 6:42 am

poptart wrote:Coming out of college, Teblow was a 'project' QB.
It was a given.

So was Steve McNair. Sure maybe they could have picked Tebow up in a later round, but that strategy can bite you in the ass, too. If you believe the guy is a legitimate starting QB, you pull the trigger. His projected status doesn't enter into it.

Personally, I don't think there is a QB in the NFL who wouldn't be or wouldn't have been better off riding pine and running the scout team for a couple years. It certainly hasn't hurt Aaron Rodgers or Phillip Rivers.

Cam Newton is in the same boat right now except that he's going straight into the meat grinder. There is no fucking way in hell that kid is ready to go. If he wasn't such a douche, I'd feel sorry for him.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 9:32 am

mvscal wrote:So was Steve McNair. Sure maybe they could have picked Tebow up in a later round, but that strategy can bite you in the ass, too. If you believe the guy is a legitimate starting QB, you pull the trigger. His projected status doesn't enter into it.

I agree with your point there.

I'm just not sure I understand why Dungver was so hot-to-trot for the guy.

I've given my own view - that I think there's a decent chance he'll end up being a starter sometime.
But that's a far cry from being THE guy for your future.

I guess we'll just have to revisit this thread a few years later and see where it stands.

It's a good point about McNair, btw.
He as drafted #3 overall and yet he was a 'project' QB.

I was in Houston at that time and J. Fisher was steadfast in his commitment to NOT throw McNair to the wolves.
He basically sat him for the first two years - even though there was a LOUD chorus screaming for him to see the field.

Fisher did the right thing.
McNair ended up being one of the better QBs in the league.
Went to a Super Bowl and won an MVP.

Not sure that all would have happened had he just been tossed on the field right away.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sun Sep 11, 2011 3:13 pm

mvscal wrote:Sure maybe they could have picked Tebow up in a later round, but that strategy can bite you in the ass, too. If you believe the guy is a legitimate starting QB, you pull the trigger. His projected status doesn't enter into it.

tebow was a stupid pick....not because I don't think he has potential (which he does), but rather because Denver had much more pressing needs at the time...tebow will never be a great NFL quarterback-he might eventually be a serviceable to good quality QB, but he'll never be great....sure he sells a lot of uniforms, but the novelty of of tim tebow is going to wear off pretty quickly

if denver ends up with a spot toward the front of next years draft (and that's a very real possibility, because I think they're going to suck this year) and they had the opportunity to draft Andrew Luck, they'll have to take a pass because they invested so heavily in tebow....so as of right now denver has handcuffed the franchise to a very good athlete with average QB skills, who may never turn out to be anything better than a "good quarterback"....not exactly the rosiest of scenarios from a denver fans perspective