Iowa-Wisky

[Mace]

What more do you need?

We need to beat Michigan State next week and then run the table to finish 10-2, and in a probable 3 way tie for the conference title. THAT'S what we need.

[TheJON]

Wisconsin IS the better team. They knocked off #1 last week, then beat the Hawkeyes in Iowa City today. Iowa has taken a step back on defense and has no signature wins yet.

They won by a point. These are dead even teams. As far as our defense taking a sep back- yes, that's correct. However, the ONLY thing that ever stopped Iowa was mistakes on offense. Neither team could stop the other. What would you expect from a defense that is without their 2 best linebackers and defensive coordinator?

Wisconsin is the better team yet they needed to run a late fake punt, block an extra point, Iowa to muck a snap on a chip shot field goal, a false start on a 4th down play that probably leads to a touchdown, an illegal motion on what would have been an easy 1st and goal instead of 3rd and 10, etc. to win by 1 point.

Think about that for a second- if just one of those doesn't happen, Iowa wins.

So in a game where EVERY break just went their way and they win by 1 point, they are definitely the better team? You guys are smarter than that.

You couldn't possibly find more even teams than Iowa and Wisconsin and no one in their right minds could possibly say that EITHER team was better.

1 point game, folks.

[Mace]

Pretty hard to say you're making an objective judgment until Iowa faces MSU and tOSU, imo. Let's see what happens the rest of the season when they face teams that could give them "signature wins". Obviously, today was one of those opportunities and they failed to pull it off. I'm not going to say Wisconsin is unequivocally the better team, any more than I would say that about Iowa beating MSU last season on a last second TD. The teams today were evenly matched and Wisconsin pulled off a 1 point win by doing what they needed to do. Congrats, again, to Wisconsin.

[TheJON]

Better resume and better team are not the same when you haven't played common opponents.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

1 point game, folks.

And you need to look beyond just one game. That's kinda my point. When you look at the body of work up to this point for both teams, Wisco has proven to be the better team. Not by some gigantic margin, mind you, but the better team nonetheless. Why is this so hard for you to concede? Jesus fuck, rub some lotion on your axe wound, and admit it already.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

That's it. You guys have got me PISSED. Sig/avatar bets for next Saturday?

[Mace]

That's it. You guys have got me PISSED. Sig/avatar bets for next Saturday?

Have to be a sig bet for me since I'm wearing the Badger helmet until they lose...which may be awhile.

[Goober McTuber]

However, the ONLY thing that ever stopped Iowa was mistakes on offense. Neither team could stop the other. What would you expect from a defense that is without their 2 best linebackers and defensive coordinator?

I never mentioned that UW was missing their top linebacker and defensive playmaker, a starting defensive tackle, their top two receivers, and for most of the game a running back that some are saying should be starting ahead of Clay. I never mentioned it, because it didn't matter, we had the better team.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Have to be a sig bet for me since I'm wearing the Badger helmet until they lose...which may be awhile.

That's too bad. I was gonna be a nice guy and let you settle with this

[Mace]

Goobs,

I'll be happy to send my check to the UW Athletic Dept, if that's what you want, but I would like to cut the check tonight or tomorrow because I'm not going to be around much next week. If that works for you, I'll get it done.

[Mace]

Have to be a sig bet for me since I'm wearing the Badger helmet until they lose...which may be awhile.

That's too bad. I was gonna be a nice guy and let you settle with this

I think the Wisky helmet would fit very nicely in the cleavage and might really make it a motion "W".

[Goober McTuber]

Goobs,

I'll be happy to send my check to the UW Athletic Dept, if that's what you want, but I would like to cut the check tonight or tomorrow because I'm not going to be around much next week. If that works for you, I'll get it done.

Mace,

How about this:

Second Harvest Foodbank of Southern Wisconsin
2802 Dairy Drive
Madison, WI 53718

And really, you can take care of this when you've finished mourning, even if that takes a week or two. I gave you a heads up several days ago that if Iowa won, it might take me a little while as I've been somewhat housebound. I trust you to get it taken care of sometime before you lose the Wisky headgear.

[Mace]

Goobs,

I'll be happy to send my check to the UW Athletic Dept, if that's what you want, but I would like to cut the check tonight or tomorrow because I'm not going to be around much next week. If that works for you, I'll get it done.

Mace,

How about this:

Second Harvest Foodbank of Southern Wisconsin
2802 Dairy Drive
Madison, WI 53718

And really, you can take care of this when you've finished mourning, even if that takes a week or two. I gave you a heads up several days ago that if Iowa won, it might take me a little while as I've been somewhat housebound. I trust you to get it taken care of sometime before you lose the Wisky headgear.

I'll cut the check tomorrow and have it in the mail on Monday.

Mourning? No, not me. I've been around way too long to mourn or lose sleep over a loss. It's just a fucking football game. Trying to convince my 20 year old son of that is another story.

[TheJON]

Eh, we all took these games too serious at age 20. You will be wasting your time trying to convince him. At least your son is lucky and gets to attend Iowa when we're actually good. I was there for 2002 season, but my first 3 years we were a combined 11-24. I suppose it coulda been worse had I been 1 year older and been at the U of I for the 1998 season instead of 2002.

Hell, for my first few years in college, we would go nuts over wins over Northern Illinois. I still can't believe I actually stormed the field for that win. I'm glad I enjoyed that win because it was our only one of the year!

The next win didn't come until over a year later when we "beat" Michigan State. I have never seen a game where a team handed another team the game more than MSU did that year. TJ Duckett had about 250 yards but MSU gave back half of that on stupid penalties. I also stormed the field for that one because I feared I might not get to celebrate another win for the rest of my college days! I felt like we had just won the Rose Bowl. Actually, I even recall saying that to someone after the game. Beutjer's the Future, right?

I give props to Ferentz though. He coached a poor game today, but it is because of him that our program is at a point where every game really does matter and we're not just playing to win a game because we're desperate for a god damn win. I just wish that guy would go play some NCAA or Madden Football because he could learn some clock management. And I'm not kidding either. Seems silly but you can really learn clock management skills from a video game.

Most people saw Iowa as this great clutch team last year, but the truth is we were just average and have been the worst clutch team in the country over the last 3 years and a lot of that has to do with game management skills that we're not doing well at. We actually only had 1 game winning drive last year and damn near choked away a couple games because of poor clock management, and then the taking a knee crap at the end of regulation against Ohio St was just dumb. We have 8 losses in the last 3 years and ALL 8 of those games we were a play away. we are getting so close to getting over the hump. But that's football....sometimes if you make 1 more play, everyone thinks you're the greatest team and if you don't make that 1 play, you're the worst team ever.

[TheJON]

1 point game, folks.

And you need to look beyond just one game. That's kinda my point. When you look at the body of work up to this point for both teams, Wisco has proven to be the better team. Not by some gigantic margin, mind you, but the better team nonetheless. Why is this so hard for you to concede? Jesus fuck, rub some lotion on your axe wound, and admit it already.

Why would I admit it when I disagree? You know I'm not about to concede something I don't agree with. I'm sorry but I watched 2 teams play yesterday that I found absolutely no differences in. I came away from that game feeling that there's no doubt those teams could play 100 games and damn near split them. That's how I saw it. I think Iowa is slightly better on defense and slightly more explosive on offense but Wisconsin has an edge in special teams. These teams are so dead even, I cannot say who is better because they're just too even. If one is better than the other it is by the slimmest of margins.

Your argument of who has signature wins up doesn't mean squat right now. We have played no common opponents. Having a better resume at this point in the season doesn't make you a better team. Having a better resume after everyone has gone through their entire schedule does. Yeah, Iowa lost to Arizona but Wisconsin lost to a similar caliber team in MSU. Sure, Badgers beat Ohio St but Iowa hasn't even played them yet. Let's wait until Iowa and Wisconsin finish their schedules out before claiming one is better based on their resume. If Iowa beats MSU and Ohio St (and this is not at all unlikely), your argument will hold no water. Don't kid yourself, things can change drastically in just 1 week in college football. Let's wait until the season is over before we start comparing resumes.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

You are so full of shit.

You're only justifying and over-analyzing because it involves your team. If we take Iowa out of this argument and fill in the blank with _____________ team, you'd claim Wisco is better without hesitation and you know it. All logic, signs, and unbiased observations point towards UW as the better team.

Don't kid yourself, things can change drastically in just 1 week in college football. Let's wait until the season is over before we start comparing resumes.

That's why I said up to this point. You certainly don't seem to have any issues grading out teams during the course of the season. But it's strictly forbidden for anybody else to?

:SHOCKER:

More JONsense, I guess.

[Terry in Crapchester]

That's it. You guys have got me PISSED. Sig/avatar bets for next Saturday?

Have to be a sig bet for me since I'm wearing the Badger helmet until they lose...which may be awhile.

In that case, I guess I'll have to root for Sparty, if only because the sig Mgo currently is wearing is:

You're a small, petty man. I'm a large, expansive man.

Not sure of the source for that one, but it certainly sounds like something bradhuskers might have pounded out, back in the day, with some references to cornfed studs and skullfucking thrown in for good measure. Only possible problem with that theory, as I see it, is that I don't think Brad knew the meaning of the word "expansive."

[TheJON]

If we take Iowa out of this argument and fill in the blank with _____________ team, you'd claim Wisco is better without hesitation and you know it.

No

[TheJON]

That's why I said up to this point. You certainly don't seem to have any issues grading out teams during the course of the season. But it's strictly forbidden for anybody else to?

I didn't say you can't grade teams up to this point. Up to this point, of course Wisconsin has a better resume than Iowa. I have acknowledged that. That doesn't mean Wisconsin is a better TEAM. There's a difference. I grade teams based on what I've seen AND who they have played.

Based on what I saw between Iowa and Wisconsin in person, I saw 2 dead even teams. What do you want me to say? This is what I saw with my eyes.

Iowa lost by 1 god damn point and made about 5 costly mistakes. I just don't understand how you can justify a team that won by 1 point and needed a fake punt to do it is clearly the better team.

Let's see here.....

Wisconsins defense could not stop Iowa. Iowa's defense could not stop Wisconsin. Both teams had long drives all day and scored basically at will. The difference was Iowa has more explosiveness on offense. In this game, Iowa made the mistakes. If we play next week, maybe Wisconsin is the team that makes the mistakes.

For crying out loud, we led 30-24 with a minute to go. These were 2 good football teams that are dead even. If Iowa doesn't fuck up the extra point or muck that snap on a chip shot field goal, we probably win the game and then you're on here saying "Iowa was the better team". This is my point. Or if Iowa makes 1 more play against Arizona, we could be 7-0 and you're on here saying Iowa might be the best team in the country.

I honestly have no idea how you could claim, from watching that game, either Wisconsin or Iowa was better than the other. That score was a CLEAR indication that both teams were dead even. Like I said, if Iowa and Wisconsin play 10 times, each game would just come down to who made more mistakes. On Saturday, unfortunately, that was Iowa. Wisconsin should clearly by ranked ahead of Iowa at this point because of what they've done overall, but your ranking is not about how good your team is.

What we have is 4 teams in the Big-10 that are pretty damn close to identical (Iowa, MSU, Ohio State, Wisconsin). Games between these teams will be mostly even and a play here and there will determine just about all of the games. I see very little difference between these 4 teams. They're all very good and I think any of these 4 teams could beat ANYONE in the country. This is a good conference. Northwestern and Michigan are good too, and even Illinois and Purdue have shown some improvement. There isn't a conference in the country that has a better Top 4. I think all 4 of these teams are Top 10 caliber. Obviously because they're playing each other, that can't happen- but I'm confident that the January bowl games will again be a success for the Big-10 teams.

Looking ahead, everything for Iowa will depend on if Norm comes back and if we get our linebackers back. Troy Johnson is just killing us at middle linebacker, and not having our best and most athletic linebacker (Jeremiha Hunter) in the 2nd half against Wisconsin killed us. If Tarpinian and Hunter don't play on Saturday, it will be tough to control MSU's offense. You can run slants over the middle all day with Johnson trying to cover your receivers.

But like I said...........things can change drastically in just 1 week in college football. The potential is there for Iowa and the Rose Bowl is not out of reach. All we need is this defense to start playing like they did last year. The D-line dominated the last 2 years and it's the same 4 guys. For some reason, they're just not doing that this year and it makes no sense. Even our 3 year starting safeties that were amongst the best duo in the nation the last 2 years have been making some uncharcteristic mistakes. I guess the only explanation for it is that our defensive coordinator is not with the team. I don't know what else it could be. I don't know of any injuries to these guys, so I can't imagine that's a valid excuse. We have 3 seniors on this defense that are expected to go in the first 2 rounds (Ballard, Hunter, Clayborn) and everyone has Clayborn rated as a Top 10 overall prospect. Something just isn't right, but if they can figure out what they're doing wrong and get back to dominating like they have the last 2 years, Iowa can win the rest of their games. This season is not shot yet. There's still plenty of football to prove themselves left.

[TheJON]

By the way, the Iowa-MSU game lost some meaning for MSU because of Iowa's loss. The reason is because MSU is going to have a 1-loss tie breaker if Wisconsin wins out and Iowa goes on to win out. MSU is LIKELY to win out after the Iowa game, and they're in a great spot to get to the Rose Bowl even with a loss. The ONLY way they could be in trouble is if Iowa wins out AND Wisconsin loses a game. If Iowa, MSU and Wisconsin are tied with 1 loss, MSU goes to the Rose Bowl. If there is a 3 way tie where each team lost a game to 1 of the other 2 teams, the 1st tie breaker is OOC record. Since Iowa lost an OOC game, they're eliminated- leaving Wisconsin and MSU. Since MSU beat Wisconsin, they would get the nod.

I suppose MSU could still have some national title hopes, but that's going to be hard given their schedule and the fact that they play in the Big-10. Let's face it........the voters won't want a Big-10 team in the title game. Plus, you've got to hurdle a bunch of teams that have played tougher schedules (allegedly).

I'm also fairly certain that MSU has the tie breaker should OSU, MSU, and Wisconsin all end up with 1 loss. I think since Wisconsin beat OSU, that would eliminate them.

Of the 4 Rose Bowl contenders, MSU is in the best spot. Iowa, Wisconsin and OSU can't afford another loss. Wisconsin will need to win out AND have an MSU lose 2 games. Iowa needs to win out AND have Wisconsin lose a game. Ohio State needs to win out AND have Wisconsin AND MSU lose a game. MSU has an easy schedule after Iowa, and on top of that they can still afford a loss to Iowa and still have a very good shot at Pasadena.

The Rose Bowl is MSU's to lose.

[TheJON]

Eh, we all took these games too serious at age 20.

And then you proceeded to write 3 books on the matter. :D

Hey, I still love the Hawks as much as I ever have. But a loss doesn't piss me off or ruin my day like it did back in the day and I don't go off the wall in celebration of a win like I used to.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Iowa lost by 1 god damn point and made about 5 costly mistakes. I just don't understand how you can justify a team that won by 1 point and needed a fake punt to do it is clearly the better team.

Likely, you don't understand it because I made no such justification.

First off, I never said Wisconsin was "clearly" the better team. In fact, these were my exact words:

When you look at the body of work up to this point for both teams, Wisco has proven to be the better team. Not by some gigantic margin, mind you, but the better team nonetheless.

Secondly, I'm not "justifying" UW based on a 1 point win, although I think that win carries more weight in UW's favor than you're giving credit for. A 1 point win or a 10 point win, Kinnick is a very hard place to play, as you're well aware. The opposition is battling a confident Iowa home team that rarely loses, as well as the crowd and atmosphere. Any win is an impressive win. Even you were masturbating to your own takes about how Wisco would not, could not win there. Now that it's over, it's no big deal. Pffft.

What I am justifying is a team that has looked more impressive based on the body of work up to this point. Your "wait and see" approach is just a cop out from what you don't want to admit: UW is better. Can things change? Sure, but that doesn't mean you can't have an opinion after more than half a season of cfb. It's an amusing little bit of hypocrisy from you since you're so famous around these parts for your knee jerk reactions and instant proclamations on whatever the topic may be. Hoards of teams you likely haven't seen more than once or twice suck ass, but when it involves YOUR team you need to sit back in with cautious observance and let it all play out. LOL.

By the way, the Iowa-MSU game lost some meaning for MSU because of Iowa's loss.

Lost meaning in the sense that it paved a smoother road to the Rose Bowl. I'll take it.

I'm also fairly certain that MSU has the tie breaker should OSU, MSU, and Wisconsin all end up with 1 loss. I think since Wisconsin beat OSU, that would eliminate them.

Actually it would come down to whoever is rated highest in the BCS. Chances are that would be OSU.

[TheJON]

Fair enough, I respect your opinion but disagree. To me, we're dead even teams and I can't say which one is better based on what I saw.

As for the MSU, OSU, and Wisconsin tie breaker- that doesn't make a whole heck of a lot of sense. MSU beat Wisconsin and Wisconsin beat OSU. Seems like MSU should get that tie breaker even though they don't play Ohio State. But it's college football, so I don't think I should be surprised.

So if that is the case, here is how everyone can get there....

MSU is the only team that controls their own destiny. If they beat Iowa, they can afford an upset loss as long as Ohio State loses another game. If they lose to Iowa, they will need to win out AND hope for 1 of the following- Iowa and Wisconsin to run the table OR Ohio State and Iowa to both lose another game

Wisconsin, even with their win over Iowa, is probably the least likely to make it to the Rose Bowl because MSU is cock blocking them. If MSU doesn't lose 2 games, they will be eliminated. Given MSU's remaining schedule, it would take a massive chokejob to pull that off.

Ohio State needs to win out and have 1 of the following- MSU lose ONLY 1 game OR MSU lose a game and Wisconsin lose a game.

Iowa needs to win out and have Wisconsin lose a game. It's really that simple. If that happens, Iowa is headed to the Rose Bowl.

I still think Iowa has a very good shot at winning out. We ALWAYS improve as the season goes on, and I'm confident this defense can figure out what's been going wrong. But even with the poor play by the defense in a couple of games, we are 2 plays away from being unbeaten. Michigan State won't be easy, but Iowa almost always plays their best game after a loss. One thing I will say about Ferentz is he has his team fired up and ready to play following a tough loss.

I'm going to go on record and say the Iowa vs Ohio State game will essentially end up being for the Rose Bowl like it was last year, and this time the Hawkeyes will pull it out. I think Wisconsin will lose to either Northwestern or Michigan. I think you're going to see a much better prepared Iowa team the rest of the way. I think the mental mistakes will come to an end starting Saturday.

[TheJON]

That's probably true. There's still the occasional game that will sting for a while and a victory that makes me want to jizz my pants for a good week.

Last years loss to Northwestern kinda stung for a while because of the bad break of Stanzi going down while we were dominating them and we were 9-0 at that point. Plus, losing to Northwestern really sucks. For some reason, the only fucking time their fans even acknowledge the fact that they have a football program is when they play Iowa. Probably because we're the only team in the conference they can beat (that's so pathetic).

Losing to Iowa State still really pisses me off but that's because I have to spend the next 365 days around ISU fans that will NEVER let you forget about it. Fortunately, their little run against us has ended and we've gone back to buttfucking them in the mouth on an annual basis. If you think Alabama fan is tough to live with, imagine living with ISU fans. At least Bama fan has reason to talk. They've got one of the best programs in the country. ISU fans talk more shit than ANY fan base in the country (well, only to Iowa fans). How the fuck a never-has-been and never-will-be runs smack is beyond me. You don't see me running smack about how awesome the Royals are to Cardinals fans. This week has been pretty brutal to be around ISU fans. They're bragging about their win over a 4-3 Texas team that got the Clones to .500, and laughing at Iowa for our loss to a very good Wisconsin team. Ummm.......last I checked we beat ISU (for the 3rd straight year) 35-7 and have a better record. You wouldn't know it from talking to a Clone fan.

By the way, ISU fans make me root for Auburn. I'm sorta enjoying seeing Chizik win! They fucking hate that guy!