T1B

trev wrote:The teachers union and others are a huge problem in California. They are big and use millions of dollars to get their politicians elected. I think that is a bunch of BS. Teachers have to be stupid to put up with it.

Teachers have to be stupid to put up with it ? Smoking crack today much ?

Pay your union dues and your union gets for you:

1. Above average market wages
2. Full family health care
3. Overly generous retirement packages
4. 3 months off in the summer
5. A bazillion other days off across the year
6. Maybe an 8 hour work day.
7. Seniority based promotion regardless of ability or competence.

I think any body would be more than happy to pay those union dues and get that done for them, but in private business, they just tell you to go fuck yourself and find another yob.

Unions, especially public unions have the ability in most states to swing any election they want to. In Oregon, the retirees and their families alone can swing an election even without the active union vote.

These unions will bankrupt this country if they continue to behave this way.

AP,

I am pretty sure it is a fuel thing. They still have three guys on a tug departure just as they did then with the power backs. They used to damn near fire wall the engines to start the backwards roll. Made for a hell of a wind storm for those under the gate area, plus it kicked up a bunch of FOD around the gate which could get sucked back into the engine. Now with the tug push back, they might not even start the number two until close to the end of the line if they know they are going to wait in the departure queue.

Lefty, I forgot about the FOD thing. In the USN we had to do FOD walk downs on the ramp every morning. I know at La Guardia they add an extra 30 minutes to the flight time due to the line up. You know what they should do in "hold shorts" in icy areas? Put de-icing trucks there if there is to be delays in line.

We always sweated out the clear ice and when to pop the boots. The rime ice not so much.

As for the teacher union thing for you others... I taught for 6 years and when I transferred to the biggest non-union district in the nation, we didn't pay union dues, but worked at least 10 to 11 hour days. Summer you get 3 months off? Really?

How about maybe 6 weeks if you're not a coach. Every teacher gets 2 sets of asshole parents a year that make your life miserable even if you're the best teacher in the world.

SAT-9 test scores and no parent issues are the only things the 6 figure/year administrators care about. It all flows downhill, and one day I walked into the Admin office and resigned. Yeah peeps, tell me about the education biz. If you've never taught, and when little princess gets angry for being held accountable for bad behavior but momma is her BFF and doesn't discipline the little brats, you'll hear about it. Good times! I should have stayed in the Navy.

Atomic Punk wrote:Summer you get 3 months off? Really?

What fantasy world do you live in?

BSmack wrote:

Atomic Punk wrote:Summer you get 3 months off? Really?

What fantasy world do you live in?

Maybe where they teach pupils like yourself to be tards. Maybe the teachers that get 3 months off in the Summer where you live and KC get that. It clearly shows here in your posts. Not in a non-union district that has one of the best academic records in the nation.

How much teaching experience do you have BSmacked?

BSmack wrote:

Atomic Punk wrote:Summer you get 3 months off? Really?

What fantasy world do you live in?

1/2 of June, all of July, all of August and 1/2 of September in our area. Looks like 3 months to me, 2 1/2 at least....still pretty damn good.

Atomic Punk wrote:
Not in a non-union district that has one of the best academic records in the nation.

Hmmm.. I wonder if there is some kind of connection there maybe.

Derron when I taught/coached our non-union district had very little time off. If you were a coach, who orders sports supplies and has to do all kinds of BS in the Summer to prepare for the next year? Mandatory teachers meetings and training before school starts and classroom prep and planning takes a big chunk out of the "3 month Summer" in this certain school district.

Total burn out but we didn't pay union dues.

Atomic Punk wrote:Derron when I taught/coached our non-union district had very little time off. If you were a coach, who orders sports supplies and has to do all kinds of BS in the Summer to prepare for the next year? Mandatory teachers meetings and training before school starts and classroom prep and planning takes a big chunk out of the "3 month Summer" in this certain school district.

Total burn out but we didn't pay union dues.

Just keep it fun for the kids and everything will take care of itself.

Speaking of UPS vs FedEx, so, okay, is this a union guy?

http://tv.yahoo.com/daytime/another-del ... 76039.html

Derron wrote:

BSmack wrote:

Atomic Punk wrote:Summer you get 3 months off? Really?

What fantasy world do you live in?

1/2 of June, all of July, all of August and 1/2 of September in our area. Looks like 3 months to me, 2 1/2 at least....still pretty damn good.

Here in NY is is two months. And just about every teacher I've ever known has used that time productively by teaching summer school, coaching, taking classes or attending professional development seminars. Also, teachers spend a fair amount of time outside of the school during the year in work related activities. One of the reasons you don't see Lab Rat around here is that the districts around here are really upping the requirements for teachers to engage in student extra curricular activities. Amongst other things, every Friday night in the fall, Lab Rat is working a snack booth at his school's HS football games for no extra pay. He does other stuff the rest of the year. And most other teachers I know do the same.

The teachers here get 3 whole weeks off at Christmas. Wouldn't you just love that? And 2 whole weeks off at Spring break. And another 8 weeks off in summer. What other kind of job gives your that much time off? There is not much summer school here anymore.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Just keep it fun for the kids and everything will take care of itself.

"Preach on, brother! Merry Christmas, everybody!"

trev wrote:The teachers here get 3 whole weeks off at Christmas. Wouldn't you just love that? And 2 whole weeks off at Spring break. And another 8 weeks off in summer. What other kind of job gives your that much time off? There is not much summer school here anymore.

Small wonder California is turning out some of worst shit posters we have.

Lab Rat is working a snack booth at his school's HS football games for no extra pay.

A world needs it's losers.

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: Just keep it fun for the kids and everything will take care of itself.

I see you've never taught in the modern era. For example, in Title 1 schools (I taught at one and there is high turnover due to these bitches pressuring the teachers) the administrators are under extreme pressure for test scores. You know why? Because they will get fired from their 6 figure BS jobs. They shouldn't get paid more than the teachers and yet they do... a lot more for hassling teachers to raise test scores. We were rarely allowed to let the kids go out for PE.

You're always out for breaks to monitor in a non-Diego way. During lunch you eat at your desk while getting things set up for the afternoon. After school, it's coaching time. Then after that there are these things called papers and workbooks that have to be graded as the administrators check to see progress.

Yes, it should be fun like when we were kids but it's not like that now. You have illegal aliens in the room and the State allows them to get a free education that we all pay for. Same thing in hospitals. You can't turn away illegal aliens shitting out kids and many of those hospitals shut down. They also kill test scores because they don't speak or read English.

trev... you are a fucking idiot. However, are we still on for Booze Cruise #3? I know a good way to make it up to you. You'll make $14 the hard way.

Left Seater wrote:I was called in later by the station manager, who told me about the conversation with the tug driver. He was laughing and said I was the kind of employee that the airline needed more of. He gave me a dollar an hour raise and two paid days off right there on the spot. He must have told the tug driver that I was suspended cause when I returned he was all over me asking if I enjoyed my suspension etc.

Working in a heavily unionized trade these days, that's pretty much my world.

And a crazy aside -- I've been told by the boss that if anyone asks, tell them I'm with Local XX. We avoid the rampant discrimination and outright hatred on the site this way, even though we EARNED the contract with a lower bid, and still get the same wage (minus union dues, and likely a more generous per diem package... actually, my "per diem" package is "do whatever you want, party like a rockstar and fuck as many chicks as possible (we even buy the skanks drinks), and put it on the card). Don't really see the union competing with that compensaion package, really... and we work twice as hard... kind of a paid-for-production, not card-in-your-pocket situation.

I have all the opportunity to join the union... and have no ibterest whatsoever. I prefer my merit-based system.

But don't get me wrong -- I don't begrudge the losers their union crutch, unless it's a public union, which is corruption and extortion taken to the extreme.

Derron wrote: These unions will bankrupt this country if they continue to behave this way.

will?

Dinsdale wrote:

Left Seater wrote:I was called in later by the station manager, who told me about the conversation with the tug driver. He was laughing and said I was the kind of employee that the airline needed more of. He gave me a dollar an hour raise and two paid days off right there on the spot. He must have told the tug driver that I was suspended cause when I returned he was all over me asking if I enjoyed my suspension etc.

Working in a heavily unionized trade these days, that's pretty much my world.

And a crazy aside -- I've been told by the boss that if anyone asks, tell them I'm with Local XX. We avoid the rampant discrimination and outright hatred on the site this way, even though we EARNED the contract with a lower bid, and still get the same wage (minus union dues, and likely a more generous per diem package... actually, my "per diem" package is "do whatever you want, party like a rockstar and fuck as many chicks as possible (we even buy the skanks drinks), and put it on the card). Don't really see the union competing with that compensaion package, really... and we work twice as hard... kind of a paid-for-production, not card-in-your-pocket situation.

I have all the opportunity to join the union... and have no ibterest whatsoever. I prefer my merit-based system.

But don't get me wrong -- I don't begrudge the losers their union crutch, unless it's a public union, which is corruption and extortion taken to the extreme.

rack.

private unions really don't bother me as they are still accountable in the end to a market system. public ones do. even a very pro union dude like FDR years ago said "public unions? nigga please." he realized where it would lead. a few decades later, jfk said why the fukk not? more voters in our pockets.

poptart wrote:

Lab Rat is working a snack booth at his school's HS football games for no extra pay.

A world needs it's losers.

I'd hardly call someone with two Masters degrees who chooses to take less money to teach than he would make in the private sector a loser. Mike HAD a job in the research community doing AIDS research. When he got his two Masters degrees he could have wrote his own ticket. Instead he made the choice to accept teacher pay and work conditions, the tradeoff being that he can live where he wants, be a productive member of the community, get a little more "vacation time" than folks in the private sector and have a nice middle class lifestyle with a good retirement at the age of 60. I don't begrudge him or anybody else that choice. In fact, I have nothing but respect for that choice.

That said, if they push teachers too far, you'll see the only people left teaching science to your kids being the ones who CAN'T get paid in the private sector.

smackaholic wrote:

Derron wrote: These unions will bankrupt this country if they continue to behave this way.

will?

Yeah, administering a certain war of choice off the books from 2002-2012 that cost over $3 trillion has nothing to do with bankrupting our country. It's those fucking unions. :?

Screw_Michigan wrote:

smackaholic wrote:

Derron wrote: These unions will bankrupt this country if they continue to behave this way.

will?

Yeah, administering a certain war of choice off the books from 2002-2012 that cost over $3 trillion has nothing to do with bankrupting our country. It's those fucking unions. :?

out of control unions are more a problem on the state/local level. on the fed level wars certainly contribute to the problem. But here is the thing, wars, unlike most of the rest of fed expenditures at least pass constitutional muster.

BSmack wrote:

poptart wrote:

Lab Rat is working a snack booth at his school's HS football games for no extra pay.

A world needs it's losers.

I'd hardly call someone with two Masters degrees who chooses to take less money to teach than he would make in the private sector a loser. Mike HAD a job in the research community doing AIDS research. When he got his two Masters degrees he could have wrote his own ticket. Instead he made the choice to accept teacher pay and work conditions, the tradeoff being that he can live where he wants, be a productive member of the community, get a little more "vacation time" than folks in the private sector and have a nice middle class lifestyle with a good retirement at the age of 60. I don't begrudge him or anybody else that choice. In fact, I have nothing but respect for that choice.

That said, if they push teachers too far, you'll see the only people left teaching science to your kids being the ones who CAN'T get paid in the private sector.

Rack Bri.

Most teachers (at least the ones I know in Iowa) are well educated and highly dedicated people who could make more money in the private sector but, as BSmack said, choose to make less money to teach and to accept the few perks of having a week off at Christmas (not 3 weeks in Iowa) and the 2-2 1/2 month summer vacation...unless you're coaching baseball/softball during the summer, or the football coach preparing for the upcoming season, or the band director preparing the marching band for the football season and summer parades, or the teachers who get private sector jobs painting houses, waiting tables, etc. to help support their families during the summer months, or take summer classes to renew their certification or work on a degree in administration. They have to deal with the endless bureacracy and paperwork of the Dept. of Education and deal with the offspring of idiot parents......all for $30,000 a year and a couple of months of vacation. Yeah, it's a hell of a deal. :roll:

A teacher's real reward for teaching is not the summer vacation but is in seeing his or her former students chase their dreams and become successful adults and productive members of society. I also know how much the teachers appreciate the "thank yous" from these former students when the return to the school during college breaks or send them a letter years after graduation to tell them what a positive influence they were in their young lives. Yes, teaching really does have its rewards, but a summer vacation and a few days off are not the primary ones....not even close.

Mace, high school teachers aren't still making only $30K per year, are they? I'm thinking certainly not those with any time on the job, and probably not even those who are just starting out.

I don't know, maybe it's a whole lot different in California, but it seems that every time I take a credit application (including POI) for a teacher they're in the $4500-5000 per-month range, and it's always a whole lot more than that once we're talking people teaching at the college level.

Mace wrote:

BSmack wrote: I'd hardly call someone with two Masters degrees who chooses to take less money to teach than he would make in the private sector a loser. Mike HAD a job in the research community doing AIDS research. When he got his two Masters degrees he could have wrote his own ticket. Instead he made the choice to accept teacher pay and work conditions, the tradeoff being that he can live where he wants, be a productive member of the community, get a little more "vacation time" than folks in the private sector and have a nice middle class lifestyle with a good retirement at the age of 60. I don't begrudge him or anybody else that choice. In fact, I have nothing but respect for that choice.

That said, if they push teachers too far, you'll see the only people left teaching science to your kids being the ones who CAN'T get paid in the private sector.

Rack Bri.

Most teachers (at least the ones I know in Iowa) are well educated and highly dedicated people who could make more money in the private sector but, as BSmack said, choose to make less money to teach and to accept the few perks of having a week off at Christmas (not 3 weeks in Iowa) and the 2-2 1/2 month summer vacation...unless you're coaching baseball/softball during the summer, or the football coach preparing for the upcoming season, or the band director preparing the marching band for the football season and summer parades, or the teachers who get private sector jobs painting houses, waiting tables, etc. to help support their families during the summer months, or take summer classes to renew their certification or work on a degree in administration. They have to deal with the endless bureacracy and paperwork of the Dept. of Education and deal with the offspring of idiot parents......all for $30,000 a year and a couple of months of vacation. Yeah, it's a hell of a deal. :roll:

A teacher's real reward for teaching is not the summer vacation but is in seeing his or her former students chase their dreams and become successful adults and productive members of society. I also know how much the teachers appreciate the "thank yous" from these former students when the return to the school during college breaks or send them a letter years after graduation to tell them what a positive influence they were in their young lives. Yes, teaching really does have its rewards, but a summer vacation and a few days off are not the primary ones....not even close.

Mace, You are correct that in Iowa teachers are dreadfully underpaid. I made that sort of jack 20 years ago and was fukking poor. Of course, the cost of living here is higher.

I suspect that in bri's neck of the woods, they make substantially more. Probably fairly close to what the get here. As for all the extracurricular stuff, I believe they receive compensation for it. Also, it is not mandatory. And maybe, just maybe they do it because they like it, as do scout leaders or LL coaches who are paid nothing.

Overall, I think teachers are reasonably well compensated here. Not rich by any stretch, but reasonably paid. Some places they truely are screwed, but, then again, no one is putting a gun to their heads. The area that people are overpaid in this area is law enforcement, prison guards and a few other jobs which are "high risk". Those in these jobs get damn good pay, stupid overtime and a retirement scheme which is simply criminal. In Ct, there are lots of retired cops younger than me pulling in 70K a year pensions. They get these by working the retirement system which is based on 3 high years pay INCLUDING overtime. This way, someone who had a base salary of around 50-60K will pull in a pension of 70K, adjustable to inflation for 40+ years.

Van wrote:Mace, high school teachers aren't still making only $30K per year, are they? I'm thinking certainly not those with any time on the job, and probably not even those who are just starting out.

I don't know, maybe it's a whole lot different in California, but it seems that every time I take a credit application (including POI) for a teacher they're in the $4500-5000 per-month range, and it's always a whole lot more than that once we're talking people teaching at the college level.

I think Mace may be exaggerating a bit, but, prolly not too much. Remember that 80K buys a decent little house in Iowa. In cali, it's called a down payment....after the collapse.

smackaholic wrote:I suspect that in bri's neck of the woods, they make substantially more. Probably fairly close to what the get here.

The mean teacher salary in Mike's District is about 50k. Of course you don't make that walking in the door. To get to 50k you have to stick around 10 or so years. But that 50k absolutely pales in comparison to what math and science teachers could be making in the private sector.

As for all the extracurricular stuff, I believe they receive compensation for it. Also, it is not mandatory. And maybe, just maybe they do it because they like it, as do scout leaders or LL coaches who are paid nothing.

It is not all compensated and some of it IS mandatory. It is the only way schools can keep some extracurricular programs going in the face of budget cuts.

Overall, I think teachers are reasonably well compensated here. Not rich by any stretch, but reasonably paid. Some places they truely are screwed, but, then again, no one is putting a gun to their heads. The area that people are overpaid in this area is law enforcement, prison guards and a few other jobs which are "high risk". Those in these jobs get damn good pay, stupid overtime and a retirement scheme which is simply criminal. In Ct, there are lots of retired cops younger than me pulling in 70K a year pensions. They get these by working the retirement system which is based on 3 high years pay INCLUDING overtime. This way, someone who had a base salary of around 50-60K will pull in a pension of 70K, adjustable to inflation for 40+ years.

Such is collective bargaining. Sometimes the workers have idiots bargaining for them, sometimes the government employs the idiots. I don't think eliminating public employee unions is the answer. The answer is to have people bargaining with unions who are not allowed to receive benefits from anybody but the taxpayers they work for. Perhaps a group of people elected by the taxpayers in an election funded only by taxpayer money?

Yea, that's right, public financing of campaigns. Tell me how it wouldn't work.

Van wrote:Mace, high school teachers aren't still making only $30K per year, are they? I'm thinking certainly not those with any time on the job, and probably not even those who are just starting out.

I don't know, maybe it's a whole lot different in California, but it seems that every time I take a credit application (including POI) for a teacher they're in the $4500-5000 per-month range, and it's always a whole lot more than that once we're talking people teaching at the college level.

My wife has been teaching for 35 years and makes $45,000 a year. New teachers make around $30,000 (I'm not positive about that and I'm too lazy to look it up right now), and there are no teachers in our system making $60,000 a year, not one. Nearly all of the young teachers have other employment during the summer and some of them are waiting tables at the local steakhouse during the school year. Iowa is apparently far different than California, Oregon, and other states mentioned on this board over the years, in that, while the teachers do have collective bargaining rights and a teacher's union that are in place primarily to protect them against wrongful termination rather than gouging the taxpayers for increased wages.

I know a husband and wife teaching duo who left Iowa for California 25-30 years ago who bought a beautiful home in California with a pool (do all of your homes have pools out there?), and used their teacher's pay to purchase a lot of property in Colorado which they are now selling off to finance their retirement. They returned to Iowa a couple of years ago and bought the nicest acreage in the area that was formerly owned by a very successful doctor. None of this would have been possible had they continued to teach in Iowa for the 25-30 years they taught in California. So, yeah, when you guys say that teachers in other parts of the country are paid too much, I would have to say that you're probably right. Oh, and Iowa puts out a far better public education than most any other state.

KC Scott wrote:In the late 90s there was a coach on the Kansas Side named Gene Weir. He''d won 6 state championships at Olathe North in 7 years and was hired away by Richland HS in Texas. They were talking about this on radio and said his salary down there was 115K for just coaching (no teaching any classes) and an extra 10K for doing a weekly radio show. Not a bad gig for doing something he really enjoyed

I'm pretty sure that the local booster club is kicking in the lion's share of that. But yea, nice work if you can get it. And another reason why most of Texas is a backwards ass shithole.

I know that in 06-07, first year teachers in northern Indiana were pulling in $45k to start in certain districts.

Teachers with a masters degree in California make on average 75K a year. They get a raise every single year. They are the only workers in this economy getting raises. And they get 13 weeks off a year. People are lining up to be teachers and jobs are hard to find, there is no shortage.

trev wrote:They are the only workers in this economy getting raises.

Nuh uh. I just got a raise...and a new job. Senior VP of jizz-mopping, I tell you. Us residents with skillz are always in the employment pool.

Screw_Michigan wrote:I know that in 06-07, first year teachers in northern Indiana were pulling in $45k to start in certain districts.

That's much more in line with what I see here. Maybe a hair low, but then again you said "'06-'07" so that number is likely a bit higher now.

smackaholic wrote:I think Mace may be exaggerating a bit, but, prolly not too much. Remember that 80K buys a decent little house in Iowa. In cali, it's called a down payment....after the collapse.

You're right, I may have exaggerated a little. I looked it up and the minimum starting salary for an Iowa teacher in 2009 was $28,000, not $30,000. The teacher pay varies a great deal from one district to another depending on the size of the district, so teachers in the larger schools in the Des Moines metro area might make more than $28,000 as a starting salary but, in the case of our district, they were wondering how they would come up with the money to raise the starting salaries to $28,000 when the legislature mandated it. Given the state of our economy, I seriously doubt the minimum salary has risen dramatically, if at all, over the past couple of years.

Scott, a teacher/football coaching friend of mine left Iowa several years ago to take one of those high school football jobs too. Huge salary, no teaching, a house nicer than the one provided to the superintendent of schools, and a car....just to coach football. He thought he was leaving for heaven and knew he had to win games to keep the gig. Bottom line, he won games but realized how much he missed the classroom and discovered that there are things more important than football at the high school level. Fortunately, he was able to leave Texas after 2-3 years and return to his former school in Iowa (he was an excellent teacher as well as a football coach) after tiring of the racism and piss poor education they were serving up in the public schools there. He found out that he was just as much a teacher as a football coach and that the grass isn't always greener....especially in the desert.

smackaholic wrote:Overall, I think teachers are reasonably well compensated here. Not rich by any stretch, but reasonably paid. Some places they truely are screwed, but, then again, no one is putting a gun to their heads.

So tough shit for the kids in those areas where teachers get screwed when they can't attract qualified/competent instructors?

The area that people are overpaid in this area is law enforcement, prison guards and a few other jobs which are "high risk". Those in these jobs get damn good pay,

There's a reason why LE work is well compensated: their jobs are high risk, and involve a lot of sacrifices. The danger while on the job is mostly obvious; those with traffic/patrol assignments daily engage violators who could turn out to be a regular Joe Schmoe, or violent 3-strikes offender who refuses to go back for life. They could be part of a team serving a search or arrest warrant where the criminal isn't willing to give up his or her freedom or illicit profits. How many other professions take part in such dangerous situations? Have you ever hit the local coffee spot before starting your shift (yeah, shift work is for people doing real work - which eliminates you)? How dangers could that be? Google the names Mark Renninger, Tina Griswold, Ron Owens, & Greg Richards. When you eat at a restaurant, do you feel the need to sit with your back against the wall so that you can watch everyone coming in the door....even while off the clock & out of your work clothes? Do people constantly, upon learning your profession, complain about their last run-in with your profession? Or about some incident in the paper - regardless of how much spin the media puts on it (hell, here in Seattle we have the media bitching about some comments two cops made about an injured pedestrian - by the police car camera after the pedestrian had been taken away by the ambulance. How would you like being scrutinized for everything you say while on duty - even while in a place you thought was private?) And along those lines, do you even tell people what you actually do for a living? Most cops don't - at least not directly. Finally, do you have to worry about the safety of your family because of your job? No, I don't mean what would happen if you were to be killed...I mean their physical safety. Cops do.

As to all the pay they get, they earn it. A lot of the times the high amounts of take home pay are due to overtime. Some of it is due to court appearances (what, you thought they don't deserve overtime pay for coming into court during the day after working the overnight shift?). Beyond that most large amounts of overtime are simply due to the local politicians not being willing to fund the pd well enough to hire sufficient officers for coverage. The cops themselves aren't the ones who decide whether they work it or not. If you don't like the city/county shelling out so much for overtime, tell them to mix in a few more officers on the payroll. And btw, all that overtime means time away from their families.

Merry Christmas, Smackaholic. Hope you enjoy the holiday with your family. And I hope you appreciate the fact that you'll be protected by those who rarely get to enjoy that same holiday with their families because they're protecting you. But I doubt your ivory tower-ass will.

Mace, as a football coach, what sort of racism was he encountering there?

By certain districts, he means combat pay to teach in the ghetto. I'm cool with that as those teachers have a miserable yob.

Mace, I am sure Iowa puts out on average, a pretty decent student. So does SD.

Wanna know why?

It's got jack shit to do with pay scales. It's simple fukking demographics. School success rates are roughly a function of whitey percentage. Being approximately 113% white, Iowa fares well.

Hate to go all pickkkle on you, but, that's the fact, jack. Average income figures in as well of course, but, not as much.

Van wrote:Mace, as a football coach, what sort of racism was he encountering there?

Have you seen/read Friday Night Lights? The black players he coached lived "on the other side of the tracks" and were valued only for their football skills. They returned to their side of the tracks after practices and games and there was no socialization with white students outside of football. The black athletes were viewed as meat on the hoof and discarded when they were injured or failed to produce. That was his perception anyway, and he used the movie/book as an example. No burning crosses or hangings, but plenty of racism.

Mace wrote:
Most teachers (at least the ones I know in Iowa) are well educated and highly dedicated people who could make more money in the private sector but, as BSmack said, choose to make less money to teach and to accept the few perks

not trying to single out Mace here as many have said something similar, but why is this being accepted as fact? Just because someone can explain algebra to an 8th grader means they would be more successful outside of teaching? Or because someone can lead students thru an earth science course means they could make more elsewhere just because?

Look teachers are very important, but anyone who has a college degree could teach HS kids. I could teach damn near anything but some foreign languages and 2nd or 3rd year biology classes. Same goes for most of us on this board. So sure some teachers would be successful in other jobs, but not just because they can teach.

Take my mom for example, she taught HS English for 30 years and was the student council rep for 25. The reason she taught? She had a young family and this line of work allowed her to be home in the afternoons, off during school breaks, etc. I have asked her many times why she stayed and her answer was always the same, it allowed her the freedom to do what she needed to do as my mom. IE attending sports, concerts, etc.

Mace wrote:

Van wrote:Mace, as a football coach, what sort of racism was he encountering there?

Have you seen/read Friday Night Lights? The black athletes were viewed as meat on the hoof and discarded when they were injured or failed to produce.

Were white students treated differently? Would injured or just untalented white kids be kept on because they were white?

I kinda fukkin' doubt it.

The social end of it was likely a result of the kids just hanging with whom they wanted to.