T1B

Obamacare?

Did Pres. Obama write this proposal?

H wrote:Kinda fuckin hard when your employer offers you ONE plan isn't it? Someone mentioned having a choice in providers....I'm all for that.

Christ in an ambulance. Does your employer offer his employees only ONE wage?

Did it ever occur to you that you are free to “opt out” of your employer’s health care plan? Where is it written that your employer must even offer you health care insurance at all? Trust me, Spanky, the only reason that plan is in place to begin with is because your employer is hoping to retain your skills and/or knowledge for the good of his company. If he doesn’t offer it, his employees will find someplace else to work that does.

You asked for alternatives:

1. You can self-insure. And yes, self-insure means what it implies. If you never get sick, you get over. If in the event that you do seek health care, guess what? You may negotiate your fee for service with the health care provider. Too extreme? Then

2. Shop. There are only about a zillion individual-with-family health care plans out there that in many cases offer more benefit for less money than what you are paying through your current employer. Ever heard of an HSA? You might want to look into it. And on that note

3. Change jobs. If health care insurance is that important to you, then maybe you should consider different employment. As I stated above, your employer offers health care insurance to retain your services. But there are other employers with different benefit packages who might do better by you.

4. Log on to a message board and bitch about what an ingrate your employer is, and how we all need to pick up the tab to subsidize health care insurance for your kids because insurance companies make too much money. Lemme ask you this, H: Is your employer making any contribution at all to your health care insurance? If so… Who’s the ingrate?!

You stated earlier that health care is fundamental. No it isn’t. Food, clean water, shelter… Those are fundamental needs. Health care is a bonus we enjoy living where we do. And health care insurance is a luxury.

Think about it.

Bizzarofelice wrote:Obamacare?

Did Pres. Obama write this proposal?

I dunno. Was it Bush's tax cuts that spun us into Recession?

Bizzarofelice wrote:Obamacare?

Did Pres. Obama write this proposal?

No. But he did kill Bin Laden.

Truman wrote:Where is it written that your employer must even offer you health care insurance at all? Trust me, Spanky, the only reason that plan is in place to begin with is because your employer is hoping to retain your skills and/or knowledge for the good of his company.

Tru, this would be an excellent time to excuse yourself from this thread, and post in it no more.

It's still early, but it's unlikely anyone will surpass this for the :FACEPALM: Of The Day Award.

No, Dins, I think I'll stay and watch you kick your own ass. I really don't believe you're going to want to engage me on this...

H4ever wrote:oh wise one who sucketh the corporate cock.

You know what's really cool?

That H4 bleats out his leftist takes on a computer that Ma and Pa built in the garage down the street from him, and the Professor taught him how to stir the coconuts in order to get a wireless signal.

I still bust my gut when the self-professed losers of society (even though they're too dumb to realize that they're admitting to their own worthlessness) line the streets to decry "Corporate Greed!" (When they're not too busy using their smartphones and wireless providers to to so.)

Cracking a book sometime might educate these people enough to understand that "corporate greed"...


is required by law.

Abd if they weren't fucking stupid, they might have a chance at understanding why it's required by law.

But I suppose it's easier to shit in a park than to admit you really screwed up at the voting booth.

Truman wrote:No, Dins, I think I'll stay and watch you kick your own ass. I really don't believe you're going to want to engage me on this...

Now, let's see if I have this straight...


The guy who posted this:

Truman wrote:Where is it written that your employer must even offer you health care insurance at all? Trust me, Spanky, the only reason that plan is in place to begin with is because your employer is hoping to retain your skills and/or knowledge for the good of his company.

... is accusing me of kicking my own ass?

Really?


Really?


Tell ya what, Tru... last chance. I'd also recommending offering up an apology on your way out, since you grossly overdid the stupid here.

Truman wrote:Where is it written that your employer must even offer you health care insurance at all?

Have you ever heard of this thing called The Health Care Reform Bill?

BTW -- if you're going to go the semantics route with the word "required," save it.

Let's just say that "Putting a howitzer to employers' heads" is similar to "required."

:dins: wrote:Now, let's see if I have this straight...


The guy who posted this:

Truman wrote:Where is it written that your employer must even offer you health care insurance at all? Trust me, Spanky, the only reason that plan is in place to begin with is because your employer is hoping to retain your skills and/or knowledge for the good of his company.

... is accusing me of kicking my own ass?

Accusing you?

No.

Watching you prove it?

Why, yes.

Yes I am.

You DO realize that the employer provisos for the Health Care Reform Act do not kick in until January 1, 2014, correct? Would it also be fair to say that you are aware that at least half-a-dozen courts have ruled the Act unconstitutional, and that the Act will be put to the ultimate constitutional litmus test before the Supremes this June?

And then there’s this little matter of national elections come November, 2012. Should electoral trends continue, “Obamacare” will be a distant memory. A folly. A historical notation.

But let’s say Obama DOES retain his office, and the GOPhers fail to win super-majorities in both houses of Congress this fall….

Per the Act, employers with less than 50 employees are exempt from the Act’s coverage provisions.

Let me restate that: Employers with less than 50 employees are exempt from the Act’s coverage provisions.

Care to take a stab at how many American businesses fall into this category? Try at least 4.5 million of the 6 million businesses in this country that actually employ workers.

So unless Brad4ever works full-time for Wal-mart (a possibility given the demeanor of his posts), there's a good chance that he is employed by Small Business USA, as witness to the shit health care plan that often saddle small firms and that he's in here bitching about. What part of “where is it written that your employer must even offer you health care insurance at all” do you struggle with?

Does the Act require these businesses to pay an opt-out fee? Why, of course it does! It’s a government program after all!

It’s still cheaper than footing the bill for health care insurance.

Might want to wipe the stupid off the corner of your mouth, Dins. We done here, or are you looking to kick your own ass with your other leg too?

H4ever wrote:

mvscal wrote:

H4ever wrote: Obamacare came about because of how fucked and full of greed the former system was, at least insurance wise.

Please do expound upon that witty, poignant use of emoticons....

Your stupidity is irremediable. I will just continue to mock the more pathetically ignorant offerings you dish up.

You truly are a colossal dumbfuck.

Truman wrote:the only reason that plan is in place to begin with is because your employer is hoping to retain your skills and/or knowledge for the good of his company.

Are you sure you don't want to take another run at this?

Pshaw.

And here you chided me not to play semantics.

Care to explain to me why Brad4Ever would actually give a rat’s ass about the positive tax implications his employer might enjoy by offering health care insurance under the umbrella of a Section 125 plan?

I’ve yet to encounter an employer who said, “You know, I really need to offer a health care package to my employees because my accountant says it’s good for my business.”

No, usually the discussion goes, “I need healthcare, and my employees want it too. How much does it cost?” or, “my rocket surgeons back in the shop are about to walk if I don’t get a plan up in this bitch, ASAP.” Something like that. That by offering this benefit can actually improve an employer's tax obligation is a bonus.

But to answer your question: Why wouldn’t I want another opportunity to drag you up-and-down this thread? I’ll leave the deck building and space shuttle piloting to you.

A huge tax incentive doesn't constitute a reason for an employer to provide health insurance, and employers would do it regardless?

That's what you're going with?

Good luck with that.

And I think you've gotten the wrong impression here -- we're about on the same page on the issue, and a true free-market solution is OBVIOUSLY (to anyone with a brain, anyway... Sup, Not H4) the ONLY solution.

I'm just opposed to non-factual statements being used to make the point, is'all.

My state now requires that all plans... and no, I'm not making this up -- all plans must cover sex-change operations. For realz.

And people blame insurance companies rather than politicians for the problems.

Dins, I've seen it. This is a no shit, can't cure stupid scenario.

As my Dad used to say, "Most businesses run by accident."

Any expense an employer chucks at a health plan improves his tax obligation. Employer contribution, administration fees, etc. It's called retention, or, in layman's terms, the cost of doing business. Yet you could swing a dead cat by its tail and hit half-a-dozen employers with a single throw that will tell you that they cannot offer health care benefits to their employees because "it's too expensive."

Ponderous.[/Dins]

H4 wrote:Obamacare came about because of how fucked and full of greed the former system was, at least insurance wise.

H, are you in your 20's?

When you have more revolutions around the sun under your belt, perhaps you'll have an epiphany.

BarryCare came about because the ruling class wants it.
Socialized health care has been a lefty dream for a long time - because it is a HUGE tool for the control and exploitation of U.S. taxpayers.

Lefties controlled both House and Senate in 2010, and nobody wanted to be labeled a dirty racist by opposing Barry on this - except for some filthy republicans, who everyone already knew were racists anyway.