T1B

LTS TRN 2 wrote: His health care plan? That's simply a common sense move that all other developed nations utilize. It (if actually implemented) saves tremendous amounts of money for the average consumer. What else?

Left Seater wrote:
Also, if this is such a great system that the rest of the world uses, why do Heads of States, Kings, and the uber rich from around the world get treatment at The Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, etc, etc?

Left Seater wrote:So are saying these folks don't come here for treatments?

Left Seater wrote:Also, if this is such a great system that the rest of the world uses, why do Heads of States, Kings, and the uber rich from around the world get treatment at The Cleveland Clinic, Johns Hopkins, Mayo Clinic, etc, etc?

Left Seater wrote:So are saying these folks don't come here for treatments?

88 wrote:

Mikey wrote:

Left Seater wrote:So are saying these folks don't come here for treatments?

A lot of Americans go overseas for treatment because they can get equivalent quality for a fraction of the price. So what's your point?

That is absolutely true. But as you point out, the reason for that is economic, not a quality of care issue. The economic issue is partly due to Federal regulations and partly due to liability issues. The FDA approval process in the United States is very expensive and time consuming. Accordingly, drugs and treatments are frequently available overseas at lower cost many years before they are available here. And Flying Spaghetti Monster help you if you should find that you have been bunged up overseas by a negligent doctor or medical care facility. And don't get me started on the problems with the patent system worldwide, which cost the U.S. citizenry billions and billions of dollars in higher medical expenses each year, and which constitute hidden subsidies to the public healthcare systems of other nations around the world.

Lefty's point, which anyone with an ability to understand the English language can readily understand and which none of you can answer directly without making your arguments for a public healthcare system look as stupid as they are, is that the U.S. private health care system is among the best in the world, and those with the means to choose to be treated anywhere in the world at any cost frequently choose U.S. health care facilities because of the high quality of health care available here without waiting in line.

Left Seater wrote:Mikey,

Plenty of these medical vacations end very poorly. I have a friend who flies for PrivateFly and strictly handles medical evacuations. He is on call 24/7 for two weeks at a time. During each two week shift he averages two flights from Europe/Africa back to North America with patients in critical condition who went overseas for medical treatment. The most recent was a lady who went on a Face Lift Safari. Get a face lift then while recovering (hiding from friends) he face literally started falling off. She is back in the States with 2 surgeries down and at least 2 more to go and prolly a month long hospital stay.

Where would you rather your family went for serious medical issues if not in the US?

88 wrote:

BSmack wrote:

Left Seater wrote:So are saying these folks don't come here for treatments?

I think he saying that just because a bunch of rich twats come to Cleveland to jump their rightful place in line doesn't mean you have a valid argument.

KYOA much?

...because of the high quality of health care available here without waiting in line.

BSmack wrote:
Ponderous

Left Seater wrote:So if the surgeons were more experienced, and your out of pocket was equal or minimally more, why didn't you go to India? Or to England for that matter?

Mikey wrote:

Left Seater wrote:Mikey,

Plenty of these medical vacations end very poorly. I have a friend who flies for PrivateFly and strictly handles medical evacuations. He is on call 24/7 for two weeks at a time. During each two week shift he averages two flights from Europe/Africa back to North America with patients in critical condition who went overseas for medical treatment. The most recent was a lady who went on a Face Lift Safari. Get a face lift then while recovering (hiding from friends) he face literally started falling off. She is back in the States with 2 surgeries down and at least 2 more to go and prolly a month long hospital stay.

Where would you rather your family went for serious medical issues if not in the US?

First of all, I wouldn't call a face lift a serious medical issue, at least not for most of us (can't speak for smackaholic here).

Second, there are plenty of botched surgeries in the US. This is especially true for stuff like "minor" cosmetic procedures and liposuction where there are at lot of fly-by-night quacks out there. Going overseas for surgery, just like having it done here, you better do your fucking homework before you make a choice. Anybody flying to Lilongwe for a face lift better expect to come home with some nasty problems. On the other hand there are some excellent hospitals and surgeons operating overseas at a fraction of the cost in the US.

When I was researching my hip surgery I found that there are several doctors outside the US that have been practicing the same specialized hip resurfacing that I got for longer than any doctors in the US and with many more procedures under their belt. One doctor in India is the most experienced in the world. You can get it done there in Chennai, and recover for a week at a four star resort on the Bay of Bengal, including airfare, for not much more than I paid in deductibles and co-pays. It's really the only feasible choice for somebody without good insurance. You can also fly to England and get it done more cheaply than here by the doctor who basically invented it.

Mikey wrote:I never said that going abroad is necessarily a better choice but for some people it it's the only choice.

smackaholic wrote:

And what explains the big difference if price? In the case of India, it is simply that everyone makes less, including the doctor. But, that explanation doesn't fly in blighty. What is different has a little to do with gubmint subsidizing and a fukk ton to do with the added expense of dealing with the sharks in the legal system.

The rest of the world to their credit have dealt with these fukkers. We have not. And their chief defenders are the libs who cry about the costs as they point a finger at the big bad insurance companies.

88 wrote: And don't get me started on the problems with the patent system worldwide, which cost the U.S. citizenry billions and billions of dollars in higher medical expenses each year, and which constitute hidden subsidies to the public healthcare systems of other nations around the world.

Lefty's point, which anyone with an ability to understand the English language can readily understand and which none of you can answer directly without making your arguments for a public healthcare system look as stupid as they are, is that the U.S. private health care system is among the best in the world, and those with the means to choose to be treated anywhere in the world at any cost frequently choose U.S. health care facilities because of the high quality of health care available here without waiting in line.

Martyred wrote:
Unless your workforce is replaceable by a steady stream of Mexican [KC Scott]muscle[/KC Scott]...