That's what you got out of my last post? When I pointed to two different kinds of cause you got that I was posting about something other than the cause? You are criminally stupid.schmick wrote:I know when someone is full of shit and trying to point the blame at something other than the cause.
Huh?You know that it is blacks fault that white men rape white women.
Interesting take. While your family is something that everyone can aspire too, it is hardly the norm for anyone regardless of race.Moving Sale wrote:LS- Once you take as true that they make good vics due to past racism you don't need to go into the more subtle aspects to know how to fix the problem, but since you were so nice.
Family. Family is important. My kids are being raised up right mostly because I had a good dad. My dad also had a good dad and so did his dad before him, my great grandfather who was born in the 1880s. My great grandfather's father was not a slave but most of his black counterparts at the time did have fathers who were slaves. The sense of family my ggfather had was not the same as his black counterparts who's family was bought and sold as chattel. They were not able to instill in their kids that if you work hard you have a good chance to "make" it. And mostly due to reconstruction, Jim crow, and even the racism we see today it has been hard for black families to fix what was broken.
If you tripled the capacity of the court, jails and post probation process, you might stand a chance. Never going to happen though.88 wrote: If you amped up investigations and prosecutions, I shudder to think what reaction that might engender.
Really? Intact families, until recently, have to my mind been the norm outside of the ghetto.Left Seater wrote: Interesting take. While your family is something that everyone can aspire too, it is hardly the norm for anyone regardless of race.
I have clearly stated that I do not believe that. The point is that in a sample of a million kids with your background and a million with mine, your million is going to commit more crime. And that is without the added societal pressures from being black.So based on that and your family example above I would have the same excuse if I fell into a life of crime.
From my math you and your father and gfather had a father figure for a total of 35 or so years. That truly sucks but it is still better than the experience of millions and millions of black youth.No male father figures in the family history. Neither did my dad. He didn't have any means, but managed to move into the upper middle class. I didn't struggle to find food as a kid, but we weren't middle class either, but I am today.
I think you just answered your own question.Why aren't black leaders today talking about blacks breaking this cycle? Instead they are doing everything to keep this pattern going. Why? Other than keeping themselves "in power" and relavent, they are hurting their race.
No. To treat all victims as close to the same as possible. That is not to say that statutory enhancements for, say, killing a cop are not warranted.88 wrote: Am I to understand that one of your political solutions is to expend more resources to investigate and prosecute perpetrators of BoB crimes?
As I have just stated that is not my argument, so no need to explain it again.One of the underpinnings of your argument, at least insofar as I understand it, is that if you make it more likely that a perpetrator of BoB crime will get caught and severely punished, such perpetrators would be less likely to commit the crime.
Again not my argument, but I quoted it for a third time not to pile on but to reiterate that "blame" is a bad word to explain what my stance is. I know that in an individual case the "but for" cause is the perpetrator of the crime.But I think you are off the rails if you are suggesting that the white man is to blame for crimes committed by blacks against blacks because the white man does not expend sufficient resources to investigate and prosecute blacks for committing crimes against blacks.
So your take is that community is important too? I'll buy that. Has there ever been a time in American history where the black community was nurtured and respected?Left Seater wrote:So if my family having father figures counts, whose to say black youth don't have father figures? I count my HS coach as a father figure. Teachers (male), coaches, Boys and Girls club sponsors, YMCA sponsors, big brother big sisters volunteers etc.
We have been thru this. I think your original thoughts on this are probably correct. I would add that there are plenty of people of all races working in the ghetto to help rebuild the black family.As for the so called black leaders why aren't they being called out?
Just STFU already. You're taking away personal accountability and placing it on non-blacks to suck their dicks to make them feel better. You would be the 1st idiot to have your ass kicked like that white kid on the bus by those three 15 y/o black kids that's now in the news.Moving Sale wrote: Has there ever been a time in American history where the black community was nurtured and respected.
I meant taking the words at their literal meaning as opposed to legalese.Moving Sale wrote:Not sure what you mean by semantic standpoint
Those are desired end states, but don't address what politicians can actually do to achieve them. Politicians can and should have some impact on rebuilding cities, but it's not their job, nor should it be, to rebuild families. What exactly is the something they should (or could) do about racism beyond treating all defendants and victims equally?Rebuilding Families, actually doing something about racist, rebuilding the American city. You know hippy stuff.What are these political answers, and what are the macro questions that need to be answered?
Really? What examples can you cite to show that racism at those levels is still legal? If you're talking about practice as opposed to policy or law, I probably agree with you.Bullshit.Institutional racism, at least at the Federal and state levels, has long been outlawed.
If they didn't, what could they do to remedy the problems as you see them? It seems your solution is for law enforcement and the judicial system to treat all defendants and victims equally. Law enforcement officials aren't politicians, and judges may be political appointees, but I'm not sure if you consider them politicians.That is because our politicians suck butt.I don't see politics as being the answer to much of anything.
If "better" punishment existed today or in 1870, maybe BonB crime would be less than it is. Not sure that it's a given, though.No, but it can be punished better and if it had been punished better in 1870 we would not be where we are today.Racism at the individual level cannot be legislated away.
It's easier & more convenient to commit the crime in one's own 'hood than to have to travel, even if it's only a 20 minute drive. Money isn't always the motive, and even if it were, there's money from prostitution, drugs, and other criminal activity available for theft in the ghetto, as well as honest money. Probably just as easy to knock off a liquor store in Compton as it is in 90210, especially if it's right down the street.Why do you think ghetto violence stays in the ghetto when a car can take you from Compton to Hollywood in 20 min and all the $ is in Hollywood?Maybe I'm ignorant & short-sighted, but I fail to see how today's racism contributes to blacks killing each other, and disagree with the assertion that blacks have been taught that blacks make "good victims."
OK, you indirectly answered a previous question - a "good" murder victim is one nobody gives a shit about. I'll accept that.Why do you think hookers make good murder victims? Black or White? I tell you why. It is because nobody gives a shit about them.
No argument there.You can call it a ploy all you want but crime is not done in a vacuum. That is why mitigating factors and aggravating factors are considered at sentencing and lifer hearings.This is purely a legal ploy intended to evoke sympathy, but does not detract from the basic premise of individual responsibility for one's actions.
No argument there, either. I would probably also agree with you that the prevalence of blacks being convicted of crimes they didn't commit is higher than it is for whites, but statistically, it's likely insignificant. I'm guessing the great majority of convictions are justified, and most crimes that are actually committed are unprosecuted and unpunished anyway.You don’t have to have committed the crime you just have to be convicted of it.For anything other than punishment for crimes committed?
Really? It doesn't state that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction"?Mmmmmm no it doesn’t.The 13th Amendment says otherwise.
I see. So if law enforcement and criminal courts treated black victims with as much "care" as they do whites, BonB crime would be reduced. There may be some validity to that, but I'm not completely convinced.The problem I was referring to is the ease in which crime could be committed on a black person without much (any) fear of reprisal.What problem, specifically?
The point you made before this had a grain of credibility to it, but slavery & Jim Crow laws still don't.I know you don’t get it. That’s why I’m try to explain it to you.I thought the discussion here was BonB crime, in which case I don't see how these are even relevant.
Arguing that the racism of treating black victims as less "important" than whites is, again, perhaps a valid point.The question was BonB, crime the answer (in part) is racism. That is not anywhere near moving the goalposts.I would consider changing the subject from BonB crime to racism as moving the goalposts.
I'm not completely convinced that even if the legal system and the media treated all colors of victims equally, the public at large would care much more than it currently does, or that it would result in any significant reduction in BonB crime. The primary means by which blacks can affect positive change within their communities has to start with them, and they must significantly reduce their level of dependence on others & stop waiting for others to take action to make their lives & culture better. Responsibility for one's own actions can be extended from the individual level to the racial "community" level. I'm not saying that racism doesn't exist or that it hasn't had a negative effect on blacks. But it is not to their advantage to continue blaming it for all their woes, and to keep waiting for government and forces outside of their control to change while continuing their self-destructive ways. They have to work from within their own communities despite whatever obstacles they may face rather than to fall back on those obstacles as excuses and rationale to keep doing what they do.Are you saying killing a black person and killing a white person (all other things being equal) will get the same scrutiny from the public at large, the DA’s office, the cops and the media?
Ahh, respect. This is something that is usually earned, not just handed out. But what is the Black community telling everyone else about their level of respect for one another? As we agreed the so called Black leadership doesn't care or respect their community, so it makes it easier for others to do the same. Then those outside the black community see unlawfulness, drugs, prostitution, murder, etc glorified thru music, action and words and the respect drops even more. Add to that the use of the "N" word by the black community, a word that immediately triggers memories of the laws and programs you originally stated as much of the problem, and the respect level falls thru the floor.Moving Sale wrote:So your take is that community is important too? I'll buy that. Has there ever been a time in American history where the black community was nurtured and respected?Left Seater wrote:So if my family having father figures counts, whose to say black youth don't have father figures? I count my HS coach as a father figure. Teachers (male), coaches, Boys and Girls club sponsors, YMCA sponsors, big brother big sisters volunteers etc.
So we agree on the lack of black leadership and recognize that other races are attempting to help in the ghettos. When do we start holding the Black community accountable for even some of their actions and their lot in life?Moving Sale wrote:We have been thru this. I think your original thoughts on this are probably correct. I would add that there are plenty of people of all races working in the ghetto to help rebuild the black family.Left Seater wrote:As for the so called black leaders why aren't they being called out?
Like posting to a wall. The same lie 5 times? Really? That is your contribution to this thread?schmick wrote:It makes as much sense as racism being the cause of black on black crime
I have had 7 Black clients this month. Nice try fatty.Papa Willie wrote:
All of this coming from a midget lawyer who has probably only talked with 3-4 black people in his life.
I know anything more complicated than “does my bra match my panties” is above your intellectual pay grade, so I’m not going to waste any more time on you right now.Atomic Punk wrote:You're taking away personal accountability and placing it on non-blacks to suck their dicks to make them feel better.
When the government legalized the buying and selling of people they have an obligation to right that wrong. At this point it is going to be a hard row to hoe, but if you don’t think it is both necessary and proper for politicians to try and tackle the problem, you need to cut your hair and buy a suit.Smackie Chan wrote: Those are desired end states, but don't address what politicians can actually do to achieve them. Politicians can and should have some impact on rebuilding cities, but it's not their job, nor should it be, to rebuild families.
As I said before it’s pretty late in the game, the time for killing people and taking their property is long gone. That being said…Shoot all lawyers who represent cops unions then fire every racist cop on the spot with no hearing? Or something less extreme along those lines?What exactly is the something they should (or could) do about racism beyond treating all defendants and victims equally?
Stop and frisk. How far in the sand IS your head?Really? What examples can you cite to show that racism at those levels is still legal?
See above.If they didn't, what could they do to remedy the problems as you see them?
That one made me laugh.I'm not sure if you consider them politicians.
Nothing is a given, but seeing as this is the crux of my whole argument, it would be nice if you were a little more definitive on whether or not you are buying what I’m selling?
If "better" punishment existed today or in 1870, maybe BonB crime would be less than it is. Not sure that it's a given, though.
We could debate this minor acpect of our debate for days, but I’m just going to add.It's easier & more convenient to commit the crime in one's own 'hood than to have to travel, even if it's only a 20 minute drive.
Indirectly? Mmmmm okay.OK, you indirectly answered a previous question - a "good" murder victim is one nobody gives a shit about.
Again. Minor point. I think we got our wires crossed. Let’s drop it.Really? It doesn't state that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction"?
What? Are you on crack? Make up your fucking mind you dope smoking hippy.There may be some validity to that, but I'm not completely convinced.
It’s all connected. Slavery taught people that Blacks make good victims so we had reconstruction and not the death of all former slave holders and the confiscation of their property.The point you made before this had a grain of credibility to it, but slavery & Jim Crow laws still don't.
Perhaps, Smerhaps. It’s crime 101.Arguing that the racism of treating black victims as less "important" than whites is, again, perhaps a valid point.
Not today and not tomorrow, but it is really the only option we have. Agreed?
I'm not completely convinced that even if the legal system and the media treated all colors of victims equally, the public at large would care much more than it currently does, or that it would result in any significant reduction in BonB crime.
True, but I’m talking about what white people have done and what part THAT has played in getting us where we are and, if we understand our past better maybe we can not keep repeating the same mistakes.The primary means by which blacks can affect positive change within their communities has to start with them, and they must significantly reduce their level of dependence on others & stop waiting for others to take action to make their lives & culture better. Responsibility for one's own actions can be extended from the individual level to the racial "community" level.
You get one guess as to why, today, Blacks don’t like cops. Think you can get the right answer?Diego in Seattle wrote:Law enforcement doesn't care less about black victims. It's more a matter of whether they are able to do as much for black victims. When black victims & witnesses refuse to testify against their assailants (or lie about what they witnessed) the cops can't do much for them. Again, it's the community that needs to stand up to crime, not politicians nor law enforcement.
Sounds like you have a problem trying to right a wrong.schmick wrote:affirmative action, racial quotas for college admissions...
A penny for a pound of flesh is not enough in my book.Left Seater wrote:
I would argue that the Black community has been nurtured for decades. The definition reads: Care for and encourage the development of. There are thousands of programs available today specifically to encourage the development of the black community.
I don’t even know what you mean by white guilt. I see a problem. In this case BonB crime. I look to a solution. In this case, as in most cases, the past tells us how we got to where we are and gives us clues as what we should and should not do to fix it. That is pragmatism. In this case I think the past shows us we (all) need to, inter alia, do more to fix the dearth of families in the ghetto that have both a father and a mother.The "white guilt" has gone so far as to legalize discrimination based on race to favor blacks over whites or other minorities in many facets of our lives.
Yesterday.When do we start holding the Black community accountable for even some of their actions and their lot in life?
I see so. The Government takes your property (or shoots or beats you) and then the leader (or the rouge cop who illegally shot or beat you) of the government steps down so you now no longer have recourse against the Government? Like I said you are a vapid cum-soaked-asshole and probably a racist.schmick wrote:you can only right a wrong by getting the person who wronged you back, not people who had nothing to do with it
You have no idea what a government is do you?schmick wrote:affirmative action and race based acceptance quotas arent punishing the people who did anyone else wrong. It would be like blowing up church filled with black kids because a different black person backed in to your car and didnt have insurance
Outstanding use of grammar as you raise the white flag.Moving Sale wrote:I know anything more complicated than “does my bra match my panties” is above your intellectual pay grade, so I’m not going to waste any more time on you right now.Atomic Punk wrote:You're taking away personal accountability and placing it on non-blacks to suck their dicks to make them feel better.
***
So maybe the midget will keep us posted on the disposition of those cases ? Both from the judicial standpoint and if he was paid for every hour and how much ?Papa Willie wrote:Moving Sale wrote:I have had 7 Black clients this month. Nice try fatty.Papa Willie wrote:
All of this coming from a midget lawyer who has probably only talked with 3-4 black people in his life.
Figures that's the only fucking clientele you can attract. You still don't know jack SHIT about black people. It's obvious in everything you say. I'm sure each lawsuit you're handling for them pertains to things like "I hurt my fingernail on a white man's car".
Good luck in collecting money from them. Bwahahaha.
Why yes he does. It doesn't mean he's a homo though.Papa Willie wrote:TVO has a lispy voice? Color me shocked! :grin:
Moving Sale wrote:SC- I have not "blamed" my client's actions on slavery that I can think of because people are responsible for their actions.
Atomic Punk wrote:You're taking away personal accountability and placing it on non-blacks to suck their dicks to make them feel better.
Go suck a cock you stupid vile tranny.Atomic Punk wrote: In other words, you have no response as you know I'm correct in telling you that you are wrong.
Papa Willie wrote: All of this coming from a midget lawyer who has probably only talked with 3-4 black people in his life.
So first I don't know any blacks and then a few hours later all my clients are blacks. Do you even have the capacity to think clearly you fat stupid fuck?
Figures that's the only fucking clientele you can attract.
Bad choice of words on my part. I meant an oz of flesh to payback for taking a pound is not going to slove anything.Left Seater wrote:So a penny isn't enough, what would be?
I don't charge by the hour I charge by the case. As far as dispositions of my last 5 black clients; One is in jail awaiting trial, two were granted parole and one was denied parole (I only represented those three post-conviction) and one plead to a .23 DUI. They all paid cash or check.Derron wrote: So maybe the midget will keep us posted on the disposition of those cases ? Both from the judicial standpoint and if he was paid for every hour and how much ?
Moving Sale wrote:my last 5 black clients...paid cash or check.
:doh: How many Nogs live in the San Luis Obispo area anyway? It seems you suck black prison cock to survive and live in a hovel in the outland areas of SLO. No way you live it large representing those loathsome nogs that are nothing but a parasite in that area.Moving Sale wrote:I don't charge by the hour I charge by the case. As far as dispositions of my last 5 black clients; One is in jail awaiting trial, two were granted parole and one was denied parole (I only represented those three post-conviction) and one plead to a .23 DUI. They all paid cash or check.Derron wrote: So maybe the midget will keep us posted on the disposition of those cases ? Both from the judicial standpoint and if he was paid for every hour and how much ?