T1B

l to r: LTS, Left Seater

RIP Brent Woodall


South Tower 89th Floor...found out his wife was pregnant the week before..

Go Bears !






http://woodallkids.org/

http://www.brentwoodall.com/

Left Seater wrote:

Bat Shit Crazy LTS wrote:The farings for a commercial airliner are located on the wings, not on just one side of the fuselage--like a big egg.

The fact that you claim "flight 175" looks normal is utterly ludicrous. You're lying through your teeth.

So you had no clue what the term "gear" meant in reference to a plane, but know you want us to believe you know what fairings are when you can't even spell them?

Just another of your cut and paste jobs that you don't even understand.


The flap fairings are located on the rear underside of the wing. The wing root fairings are located on the side of the fuselage and are in fact shaped like an egg.

The conspiracy would have to have at a minimum 1500 people and more likely more than 2500 people.

Your weaselly parsing and squirming is disgusting. Are you really such a mewling little punk that you can't muster the courage to simply deal with some expert analysis of what is obviously a inside job. As for your guess of how many participants were involved, what part of your ass did you pull this from?

Now...once again...as though dealing with a challenged child, examine some evidence.

these are actual pilots and engineers (what the fuck are you?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huK0MAb0Xa4

Bat Shit Crazy LTS wrote:Basically, you're incorrect in assuming that thousands of people were necessary for the New Pearl Harbor. Try hundreds--and they're all hardcore believers in the cause.

Bat Shit Crazy LTS wrote:As for your guess of how many participants were involved, what part of your ass did you pull this from?

For the final time! I watched some of your links that you claim reveal the true depth of the cover up. They also outline the companies and individuals involved. So using my knowledge of flight proceedures, NYT articles, WSJ articles, and your videos etc we will see just how many people would have to be invoved in this cover up.

So starting with your videos timeline I will include the number of people "in the know" and then a running total as well for each step of the way.


Federal Reserve Bank
Securities and Exchange Commission

These guys were brought in to allow the clearing of securities that were coming due in a failed attempt to collapse the Russian economy. The boards of each at a minimum would have to be involved along with a few key managers and executives. We will estimate those numbers to be around 20 total.

FBI

The FBI planned an exercise in Southern CA so that all of their top terrorism and counter terrorism experts were as far away from NYC as possible. This would give them days without having to deal with them on site at the Towers. Not many would need to be in the know at the FBI on this so we will call it 2 people involved for a running total of 22.

NORAD
Elgin AFB
MacDill AFB
Patrick AFB
Stewart AFB

These bases were responsible for launching drones and decoys, launching and recovering the control planes, and destroying the real commercial flights. They were also responsible for the coverups of the missing units from the military inventory. NORAD covered up the tracks of the flights and didn't sound any alarms. At each of these bases pilots, ground handlers, control tower operators, maintenance and security details would all be necessary. If we err on the conservative side we know there would be a minimum of 10 people on each base with knowledge of flight operations of 767 and 757 sized/shaped drones and their control planes. This also assumes that no one else on these bases heard or saw huge civilian marked planes/drones taking off from bases where commercial flight was restricted. Huge leap of faith there that isn't realistic. But hey we are dealing with LTS. So that is a crazy conservative estimate of 50 people at each base involved. for a running total of 72.


Lockheed Martin
Boeing
Northrop Grumman
GE
Pratt & Whitney


At least two of these companies would have to be involved in the development of the drones or in the rebuild of actual airliners into remote control missles. But since LTS' video said drones were far more likely let's focus there. The top three companies are airframe builders and would be the only realistic companies that could handle the manufacture of such a large airframe. The last two companies design and build powerplants. Again these two are the only realistic options for the size of engines necessary for such a large drone. So at the airframe manufacturer we will need Aerospace engineers, fluid dynamic engineers, wing specialists, CAD Operators, Machine operators, electricians, pipe fitters, sheet metal fabricators, painters, and laborers. Since this is crazy land let's assume they were able to design and build this with minimal man power and input despite the fact that in a normal development of an airframe hudreds of people are involved. Let's also assume that they were able to build these drones in some hangar on a secure base that no one knows about. We are still going to have 50 people involved in the design, and another 50 in the construction. Multiply that by the minimum two companies involved and we add another 100 people. Oh, and let's also assume that the jigs and wing frame infrastructure also exists on this secret base that no one knows about. That is a running total of 172.


Ft Detrick

This base sent out the anthrax or covered up the disappearance of the anthrax used as a distraction. I don't know the proceedures for taking anthrax out of storage or from a lab, but I would hope it is a complex operation. However, for sake of this counting exercise for LTS let's estimate this at 3 people for a running total of 175.


Flightaware
Flightwise
Flightview
Satcom Direct
and countless others

These companies can show real time or delayed flight info on all flights in the US and many parts of the world. They have the info on military flights but do not publish them to the public like they do airline flight data and info. Each of these companies would be able to track and recorded the info on all of the actual commercial flights that day and the military flights of drones and control planes. The board of directors of each company would have to be involved in the cover up and or destroying of the tapes of that day along with the techs who actually performed the deleting or storing of said data. This would be a minimum of 10 people per company listed and does not account for any private individuals who might have been tracking these flights live that day. So our running total is now 215.


TRACON Facilities in
Boston A90
NYC N90
PTC Potomac

ARTCC Facilities in
Boston
New York
Cleveland
Leesburg
Jacksonville
Atlanta

Towers in
Cleveland
Tri-cities
Boston
New York
Newburgh


These FAA Facilities all either ignored info or destroyed info after ignoring it regarding the true flights of the commercial airliners and the drones. The drones, their control planes and the real commercial flights would all be visable at some point to each of these facilities. The employees in these facilities are trained to raise an alarm as soon as something is outside of its filed plan. So no doubt plenty of folks at each facility had eyes on all of these flgihts. Further the other employees that weren't working these flight would know something was up and they would have to be part of the cover up, but for the purpose of this exercise we will ignore them. So counting just two employees and one supervisor at each facility gives us 42 individuals and a running total of 257.


FAA
Dispatchers at United and American Airlines
Catastrophe teams at United an American Airlines

These folks would have been following the real flights from the moment these planes left their gates until they parked at the gates in their arrival cities. As soon as these flights were a mile off of their filed flight plans extra attention would have been raised. Supervisors, managers, cheif pilots, CEO and others would have all been notified of IRROP. In fact these were likely the first people to know something was wrong on 9/11. But since they were all invoved in the conspiracy they already knew what was going to happen. We will assume we already counted all the FAA folks but 2 who would be the one stationed at the respective companies dispatch centers. Since the airlines knew this was going to happen we will assume normal proceedures weren't followed and only 10 people at each site knew along with other key executives. This gives us another 22 people for a running total of 279.


AIG
Kroll
Marsh & McClennon

These firms or executives of these firms actively planned the murder of some of their employees by having the planes target their buildings. These firms also had whistle blowers show up for hearings and presentations on 9/11 to destroy the whistle blowers evidence of huge securities fraud to collapse the Russian economy. We will assume only a few people at each knew of the plot, say 3 per company for a running total of 288.


Mayor Rudy
NYPD
NYFD

The mayor, and commisioner of each department were in on the plot and later were part of the cover up to remove and destroy evidence. An additional 3 takes us to 291 total.


Unknown military base

This base was responsible for the launching of the missle that hit the pentagon or the plane that delivered the air launched missle that hit the pentagon. It is likely that the missle had to have been air launched or hunderds of people on the ground would have noticed a missle launch. So we again need a flight crew, maintenance techs, ordinance techs, tower controllers, security and base command. For an airborne missle launch we are going to need a minimum of 15 people for a running total of 306.


Structural engineers
Explosive experts
Iron workers
Electricians
Dry Wall installers
Painters
Security

These folks would be necessary to place the explosives for the controlled demolision. LTS already told us they worked overnight when the building was less busy, but we all know the towers had many companies that were 24/7 operations. Of course for this exerecise we have to assume that none of the workers in the building saw anything. But to wire all three buildings with enough explosives would require many many teams and many many months to complete. But since we are dealing with fantasy land we can assume that 100 people managed to wire all three buildings in just a few months. So that takes our running total to 406.


President
Vice President
Cabinet members
Joint Cheif
Chief of Staff of each
GAO employees
House Members
Senators
Other Govt officials

These folks all knew and planned all or part of the operation. Some were more involved than others but each knew at least a part and has remained silent. We will estimate those in the know here at 14 which brings our running total to 430.


Now that we established those in the know prior to, the planners, and those who saw it unfold and covered up what they saw we need to get to the real meat and potatoes. Those involved in the clean up and recovery are huge and the least likely to be controlled or convinced to cover anything up.

GE
Newscorp
Disney
Viacom
Time Warner
CBS

These companies controlled 90% of the media in the US on Sept 11th. They covered up certain evidence, spread dis-information, and prevented reporters from following leads by putting them on other stories. We know this to be fact because LTS' video says so. We will assume that this was tightly controlled from the top and that there were no free lance or reporters who didn't listen to their bosses and say only 10 people at each company engaged in the cover up for a total of 50 and a running total of 480.


DynCorp
Carlyle Group
BDM International
Stratesec
Bovis Lend Lease
Amec
Primark
TASC
NIST
LMI
General Dynamics
Halliburton
Baseline
Washington Group International
Raytheon Engineers
Morrison Knudsen Corp
Komatsu
Greenhorn & O'mara
Sumitomo Bank

Each of these companies are listed by LTS' video as playing a part in the plot or in the attempt to colapse the Russian economy. Let's crazily assume that only two people at each company knew anything, that gives us another 38 people for a running total of 518.


Ironworkers
Structural engineers
Heavy machinery operators
Asbestos workers
Boilermakers
Carpenters
Cement masons
Construction managers
Electricians
Insulation workers
Machinists
plumbers and pipefitters
Riggers
Sheet metal workers
Steelworkers
Truckers
Teamsters
American Red Cross volunteers
400 Search and rescue dogs and their handlers

All of these trades had access to the pile as it was called. Most were on-site as early as Sept 12th. According to the NYTimes over 1000 Iron workers from across the country had registered at the Javits convention center by Sept 14th and were assisting at the Pile. The first few days were rescue and then it turned to analysis and clean up. The trades folks would know the difference between iron and steel that melted or was torn apart from that which was cut by explosive force. All of the people there would recogonize pieces from an airliner. Amazingly not a single one of these 1000 plus Iron workers saw a piece that was cut by explosives. Even more amazing was that plenty of these trade folks found parts of airliners while searching the pile. So who planted those pieces? Someone had too. So our cover up now includes 1000 Iron workers from across North America who kept quiet on the metal they were handling. We will just ignore the other trades folks for now since this is fantasy land anyway. We will further assume that only a quarter of the iron workers came across explosive cut metal, despite a large amount of the building being wired. So 250 iron workers would bring our running total to 768.


NYFD
NYPD
Firefights from around North America


Again according to the NYTimes 91% of NYFD employees spent at least one 12 hour shift working on the pile. Another 1500 fire fighters from around North America were sent to help work the Pile so NYFD could staff their remaining stations. Firefighters like the Iron workers know the difference between melting steel and iron, torn steel and iron and metal cut by explosives. Yet somehow all of those 10,600 firefighters (9100 NYFD or 91% of 10,000 plus the 1500 from other agencies) never saw a single piece of explosive cut metal? Amazing! But let's say that only a quarter of them actually saw the explsive evidence and are covering it up. That is still 2,650 that saw evidence of explosives that brought the towers down. This is also crazily assuming that none of the NYPD officers working the site would know explosive cut metal from other forms of cuts. So our running total is now at 3418.


NYC Emergency Management
FBI
ATF
FAA
Army Coprs of Engineers
Structural Engineers Assoc of NY
LZA Thornton Engineering firm
Explosive experts

These government and professional groups all had access to the rubble that was taken to Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island. Over 400 individuals had access to the site and yet no one came forth with any evidence of explosives bringing the towers down. That puts our running total at 3818.

There are plenty of other groups supported by news articles and first hand accounts of just how many people worked at the pile and would know what they were seeing. But since I have already made my point why continue. On top of that we made crazy conservative estimates in the above numbers. In reality the people that would have access to or have been involved would have been much higher.


I used to think LTS was just bat shit crazy. But I am beginning to change my mind. The dude knows nothing of what he speaks when it comes to planes, yet he keeps opening his mouth. We know he is cutting and pasting his stuff. He points us to you tube videos that draw different conclusions from the same evidence. I think he is really someone that believes the official story, and just keeps putting these ridiculous claims out there on a tee for the rest of us to knock over the fence.

You were doing pretty good there, L-seater, tallying up the surprisingly low number of participants. But where you go off the rails is including the firefighters. As you know, the entire area was sealed from the firefighters and the police. No one but the FBI was allowed near the wreckage.

http://www.mountingevidence.org/appendix-c.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/562897/posts

And the testimony of witnesses who reported explosions in the basements of the respective controlled demolitions was routinely ignored and buried. Also, you're not counting the various Israelis who were directly involved--for example the "dancing Israelis" arrested with box cutters, fake IDs, passports and large amounts of cash.

( BTW, you make a clumsy error by suggesting the list of companies as trying to "collapse the Russian economy"....huh? Are you drunk?)

The actual number is probably under a thousand, but remember, we're not dealing with a mere massive robbery (trillions of dollars), but a mission of perceived necessary survival by a fanatical and absolutely dedicated group of ruthless criminals--the Zionists who effectively play the U.S. congress like an accordion. We notice you've examined the case presented--the names and motivations, as well as the gigantic holes all throughout the official story, and yet you're still clinging to...what? The impossibility of such criminality? The impossibility of keeping such a crime a secret through disinformation and constant "crisis'" distraction? Really?

So, what part of the official story do you feel does withstand basic scrutiny? Which part?

Bat Shit Crazy LTS wrote:But where you go off the rails is including the firefighters. As you know, the entire area was sealed from the firefighters and the police. No one but the FBI was allowed near the wreckage.

Do you even read these sites you post the links too? Clearly you don't because right on the front page of the first link is a statement that supports my numbers and shows just how little you know.

Bat Shit Crazy LTS' link to Tin Foil Hats wrote:The cleanup effort was immense. Thousands took part—including police, firefighters, and iron workers, many of whom came to New York voluntarily from all over the country (Guardian [UK] 9/11/09).

Even better why don't you explain to us what all these volunteers who came from around the country did instead of working on the pile. Then you can explain this photo taken on 9/14/11.



Just keep right on kicking your own ass!

The links I posted clearly indicate a controlled demolition. How you dance around this--as well as the obvious visual evidence that "flight 175" had a completely inappropriate appendage on just one side of its fuselage--is a joke.

Yes, of course, there were initial efforts to examine the wreckage at ground zero, but so too was the subsequent sealing off of the area by the FBI. Why? And why all of the obvious signs of a thermite fire? Why has all of this evidence been so carefully sealed and hidden?

The fact is, you've offered nothing that supports any part of the official story, while I have offered all manner of evidence--from pilots, engineers, military officers, witnesses, and experts in demolition which directly contradicts the official story. And none of this evidence has been refuted by you or anyone else.

Who are you trying to bullshit besides yourself. And why are you insisting on bullshitting yourself?

You are the one wearing the tin foil hat so the burden is on you. You need to show PROOF of each of these things happening. You have to explain how thousands of people knew major parts of the plot or cover up, yet not a single one of them has come forward with evidence or their story. You have to explain where the actual flights went. You have to explain why no reporter has ever found anything solid. You have to explain why not one single person wanted to come out and bring a President down. You have to explain all of it.

Meanwhile you will throw out lines like you keep doing about "farings" being on the wings, and firefighters not being allowed on the pile. When those are proven wrong you will just continue to ignore it and throw some more shit against the wall hoping it might stick.

Bullshit. The evidence for "flight 175" is right there in the variety of photos which you insist you can't see. Or, you insist that a weird egg-shaped bulge on just one side of the fuselage is somehow normal. Further, the onus is on anyone to offer any part of the official story which can withstand basic scrutiny. Which part can you defend?

As for the sealing off of the ground zero, consider,

Any criminal investigator will tell you that these are the most basic principles of any investigation. But none of them were followed on 9/11.

In the days and weeks after the attacks, Ground Zero was sealed off by then-Mayor Rudy Giuliani not to preserve the crime scene evidence, but to hasten its destruction. Over 350,000 tons of steel was carted away in the first few months, with most of it being sold to companies like Baosteel of China, which paid 25% under market price for the scrapped steel.

FEMA’s own building performance investigation team was prevented from entering Ground Zero or even taking steel samples from the salvage yards for their own report.

The National Institute of Standards and Technology tasked with writing the definitive report on the collapse of the towers admitted, apparently without irony, that it did not test the WTC steel for evidence of explosives as mandated by federal law because “there was no evidence” of explosives.

NORAD provided four separate and contradictory stories of its response to the events that morning. Some of the 9/11 commissioners believed that members of the Pentagon had lied to Congress in their testimony and the commission convened a secret meeting in the summer of 2004 to debate sending the matter to the Justice Department for criminal investigation, but they did not proceed with this proposal.

The SEC ended its investigation into the insider trading that took place on stocks of companies affected by the attacks because the suspects of its investigation had no known ties to Al Qaeda, and thus were by the terms of the SEC probe, free from suspicion of guilt. The SEC later destroyed all records related to the investigation, the largest such investigation in SEC history, as part of what it called “routine record keeping.”

Famously, not one single person so much as lost their job with regard to the events of 9/11, let alone faced criminal prosecution for their culpability in the attack.

Of course, there was no serious criminal investigation. No attempt to preserve the evidence or establish the means, motive or opportunity. No inclination to follow the money. The 9/11 commission itself concluded that the funding of the attacks were of “little practical significance.” From the very first moments after the attack, the fix was in.

What part can you refute? Your ruse to somehow excuse yourself from any sort of explanation is totally fake.

Bat Shit Crazy LTS wrote:What part can you refute?

Hmmm, let's start with the above few posts for starters. You claim the "farings" are on the wings. In fact there are many fairings on a plane including one where the wing meets the fuselage.

Or what about the most recent claim of yours that fire fighters were not allowed on the pile after 9/11. Yet you were proven wrong again.

Or that only a few hundered people were aware of the plot or of the cover up. You even agreed with me on the numbers up to the point of the fire fighters, which you were wrong about.

Or how about one of my favorites that a plane flying close to the ground that deployed any flaps would immediately crash. Anyone that has ever flown on a plane and looked out the window at the wing knows you were wrong on that one.

Or your claim that the Pentagon didn't have a common ground level floor common to all rings. Add to that the 9 feet of steel reinforced concrete you claim was breached. Others on this board proved you wrong on that one, along with your own photo.

Or your claim that a plane could not make a hole in a building the size of the towers and that the wings would leave a hole as well. Pictures of a military bomber that hit the Empire State Bldg proved you wrong again.


The biggest thing that should give you pause is that this board can't agree on anything. Politics, abortion, sports, attractive women etc, etc, etc all put people on opposite sides of the debate. Hell, even m2 has a few posters that say he isn't the total tool he usually is when he joins the chat room while toons are spinning on Friday nights. Yet, we all agree that you are the earth is flat, square wheels on a car crazy. Chew on that for a few minutes. Then enjoy your Friday night, I know I will since I have a game on a freakin' red turf field.

These spindly claims are all you've got? In the face of the facts i've posted concerning the sealing off and lack of testing of ground zero?

You're all in on the plausibility of the pentagon attack? Are you kidding? That official story is so shot to shit it's appalling. where's a photo, for starters, of any 757 anywhere near the pentagon that day? Why have all the cameras and videos been confiscated and permanently sealed?

Here's a little mountain of evidence which stuffs your denialist tripe like a trout.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9xN5jCMhU

Check it out and attempt to refute it--or any of the other evidence I've provided. So far, you've offered nothing to refute me--or to defend your own assertions.

Now let's just kick your cowardly ass around the lot a bit more...

You've stated (as a pilot) that a 757 in flight has a bulbous root wheel fairing--and that the curious egg-shape on "flight 175" is somehow normal. Okay, let's look a 757 and see..

hmm...the bottom of the fuselage in fact has no such bulbous fairing at all. Gee, you're full of shit and have been refuted once again.


As far as your claim that the firefighters--and FEMA--were not restricted from the ground zero within a week or so, is similarly completely refuted. If you maintain there was some sort of access or investigation of the wreckage, let's see your proof. So far you've offered nothing.

Blah, Blah, Blah. First of all you didn't even post a photo of the type of plane that operated United flight 175.

Second I never said a word about wheel fairings. I spoke about wing fairings.


Third using your photo we can see the shape of the fuselage change forward of the wing and continue to the visible emergency exit.


We can't even have a real discussion because you don't even know basic info that a third grader could find on google.

Left Seater wrote:Blah, Blah, Blah. First of all you didn't even post a photo of the type of plane that operated United flight 175.

Second I never said a word about wheel fairings. I spoke about wing fairings.


Third using your photo we can see the shape of the fuselage change forward of the wing and continue to the visible emergency exit.


We can't even have a real discussion because you don't even know basic info that a third grader could find on google.

Excuse me, ..."the type of plane that operated United Flight 175"...?

Is that supposed to make grammatical sense? What are you talking about? That is a 757, period. And as you can see, there is no bulbous fairing of any type on the bottom of that fuselage. There is, however, quite conspicuously, a large egg-shaped appendage on the bottom of "flight 175" as it approached the WTC tower. You cannot seem to acknowledge this, let alone explain it. Secondly, the variety of experts--pilots, engineers, military officers and so forth that I've provided, all insist that there are huge holes in the official story. And again you cannot acknowledge or refute any of them.

Your only mewling argument is an insistence that such a crime simply couldn't occur because it's too brazen and evil--or too complicated to conceal. That's it. That's all you've offered.

As for insisting that I supply all details of just who and why, well no, this is bullshit. In fact, though I may have personal opinions on who was behind it and why, I've offered no such evidence at all--and I acknowledge that it's still well hidden. However, what I am offering is a mountain of circumstantial evidence which clearly indicates that the official story is not credible--not at all. And, in light of this circumstantial evidence--which covers virtually every aspect of the official story, the onus is on you and everyone else with two functioning synapses to acknowledge that the inquiry and investigation of this monstrous crime needs to be readdressed, this time with honest and fearless rigor.

What's your excuse? And go ahead, you still haven't dared to mention one part of the official story which you feel stands up to basic scrutiny.

You still don't get it. Yet continue to kick your own ass.

UNITED 175 WAS NOT OPERATED WITH A 757.

Again we can't have a discussion about this when you have less understanding of things than a 5 year old.

Left Seater wrote:You are the one wearing the tin foil hat so the burden is on you.

You do realize you are pimping a pretty strange conspiracy theory yourself right?

You have to explain why not one single person wanted to come out and bring a President down.

WTF are you talking about? They are fucking spooks for god sake. It is what they do. Every POTUS could be brought down if spooks were chatty Kathys.

And as far as your 3818 number. Same thing, so what? They are spooks. They keep secrets for a living. How much shit that goes on do you think ever sees the light of day?

You could at least use logic if your looney conspiracy theory is so fucking airtight.

Moving Sale wrote:
And as far as your 3818 number. Same thing, so what? They are spooks. They keep secrets for a living.

Holly crap, you are even further off the deep end than LTS is. You really want us to believe that the Feds had thousands of spooks in Fire Fighting jobs, as air traffic controllers, as dispatchers, as iron workers, etc so as 9/11 could go off with them in positions to cover up the plot.

How big is your tin foil hat?

Not sure why you have firefighters on the list, but again what do you think the CIA and FBI and NSA and all the other spooks do all day? How do you think these people get anything done? You think they are all walking around in skinny ties and black suits?

But by all means goto the tinfoilhat card to muddy the waters. Can you make it thru a post without a fallacy or ten next time please? TIA.

Reading comp isn't your thing is it. The firefighters are part of the 3000 plus necessary to cover up the plot.

Further, if spooks were in all these positions their actual numbers in all these different jobs would have to be much higher to make sure that whomever was assigned to work a flight or tower cab or tracon etc was "in the know."


Speaking of fallacies is all your boy LTS has.

Left Seater wrote:Reading comp isn't your thing is it. The firefighters are part of the 3000 plus necessary to cover up the plot.

I know YOU have them in this conspiracy, but as I said I don't know why they are necessary. Maybe YOU should learn to read.

Further, if spooks were in all these positions their actual numbers in all these different jobs would have to be much higher to make sure that whomever was assigned to work a flight or tower cab or tracon etc was "in the know."

Why? You say 19 tards could do it by themselves, why does it take so many more if Bush was in on it? I know it would take a few more but how the hell does it take 3818? And yes I read your post.

Speaking of fallacies is all your boy LTS has.

Again with the fallacies. More poisoning of the well. Did you even pass 10th grade? Good gawd.

Left Seater wrote:You still don't get it. Yet continue to kick your own ass.

UNITED 175 WAS NOT OPERATED WITH A 757.

Again we can't have a discussion about this when you have less understanding of things than a 5 year old.

Oh bullshit, you squirming newt. Okay, flight 175 was a 767, not a 757. Okay, so here's a 767, now where's the bulbous fairing? How do you continue this charade?



We see you hunkering down on your implausibility angle--insisting that given an inside job, thousands of firefighters had to know. This is nothing but more blatant denial of the total sealing off of ground zero just days after--to firefighters and police as well. And too the subsequent immediate destruction of the metal without testing. How do you maintain such obdurate and robust willful ignorance? Think of the cost to your basic honesty--and ability to be honest. In short, you're fucked.

Moving Sale wrote:

Left Seater wrote:Reading comp isn't your thing is it. The firefighters are part of the 3000 plus necessary to cover up the plot.

I know YOU have them in this conspiracy, but as I said I don't know why they are necessary. Maybe YOU should learn to read.

Pay attention midget man. I only said they were necessary based on LTS' explanation of the events. He said the planes were not flown into the towers and instead it was drones. He also claims this was done to cover up a failed attempt to collapse the Russian economy. Furthermore the towers were wired top to bottom with explosives and dropped controlled demolition style. The firefighters then have to be in on the plot because they would immediately see all the steel was cut with explosives.

LTS TRN 2 wrote:Okay, flight 175 was a 767, not a 757. Okay, so here's a 767, now where's the bulbous fairing?

Good to see you admit you were wrong again. To answer your question even in your small ass photo I can see the wing fairing under and forward of the number 1 engine.

Yes I know why you posted it to him. I'm asking you if you think it would really take 3818 people you big fat fuck.

Left Seater wrote:

LTS TRN 2 wrote:Okay, flight 175 was a 767, not a 757. Okay, so here's a 767, now where's the bulbous fairing?

Good to see you admit you were wrong again. To answer your question even in your small ass photo I can see the wing fairing under and forward of the number 1 engine.

You see what? A bulbous object only on one side of the fuselage as in the clear video of the supposed "flight 175"? really, because the bottom of that--and every--767 (and 757, they're basically identical, you tedious little wad). has no such bulbous shape at all. Do you just lie through your teeth regularly, as though by some reflex action?

And no, I never suggested anything about the Russian economy, regardless of whatever angles may have been presented in the accompanying video. There are HUNDREDS of huge holes in the official story--and you can't seem to offer any support for any part of the official story. What the fuck are you? I mean besides a callow punk?

Moving Sale wrote:Yes I know why you posted it to him. I'm asking you if you think it would really take 3818...

So clearly your reading skills are zero. Yes it would really take that many at a bare minimum to cover up the plot. Not every single one of them would know any more than their part, but the firefighters are are necessary to cover up the alleged controlled demolition of the three buildings.

THE BULBOUS OBJECT!! DO YOU SEE IT?!?

Bat Shit Crazy LTS wrote:This is nothing but more blatant denial of the total sealing off of ground zero just days after--to firefighters and police as well.

Just more lies from our resident tin foil expert. Your own site and the NYTimes say your an idiot.

NYTimes story published 9-2-2011 wrote:The study was limited to firefighters, who were present in large numbers at ground zero, especially in the weeks after Sept 11.

Bat Shit Crazy LTS wrote:the bottom of that--and every--767 (and 757, they're basically identical, you tedious little wad). has no such bulbous shape at all.

Oh, so these 767s are somehow special then? They both have the bulbous shape visible from the side or the bottom, known to most non tin foil hat wearing folks as wing root fairings.

The wing fairing is light grey in color as opposed to the polished metal of the fuselage:


Here is a bottom view of a British Airways bird and notice it sticks out both in front of and behind the wing:


Hey what do you know? It seems all planes have these bulbous wing fairings that jut out forward and rearward from the wing itself.

Here is an example on a 777. Again it is color coded to help you understand exactly what you are seeing:


Here is another on an A380. Notice the flap fairings on the underside of the wings. You remember those, the things you called "farings" and planes only had them on the wings:



Hell, even one of your tin foil hat wearing heros, completely destroys the notion of a pod attached to Flt 175.

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/gree ... hange.html



Again, you have been proven to be the liar in this discussion.

Green's essay is a well-made piece of denialism and disinformation. It's basically on par with the similarly carefully prepared (and fatuous) Popular Mechanics debunking documentary. Notice his pictures of "flight 175" are very grainy and really don't show the odd bulbous shape at all. Notice how MUCH clearer shots--and video--are available but ignored by Green. Notice how blithely he attempts to skirt the matter of the supposed pentagon pilot's absurd lack of flying skill--by suggesting that he could have become a professional-level pilot of a 757 in the month between his miserable flunking out of flight school and 9/11. IS this supposed to be a joke?

As for the fairings on a 767, sure there are smooth fairings over the wheels. This has never been in question. Rather, the glaring question remains as to why there is a conspicuously large and disproportionate one only on one side of the fuselage of "flight 175." Here. you're straying from the clear image:






Similarly, you are insistent on denying that the ground zero was sealed off and no testing was allowed. Perhaps you can reveal some testing that took place? You know, as in a standard investigation? You point out that indeed a large immediate surge of firefighters volunteered and helped...do what?...and that they should have found "cut metal"--as though this was some ten-storey Vegas hotel being dropped in standard fashion?

http://911research.wtc7.net/materials/w ... owers.html

And...we notice you still can't actually say that you believe any specific part of the official story. Only that you can't comprehend the possibility of a crime of such scope. When do your wheels actually meet the road?

Moving Sale wrote: You do realize you are pimping a pretty strange conspiracy theory yourself right?

You could at least use logic if your looney conspiracy theory is so fucking airtight.

That's sig material right there.

Bat Shit Crazy Tin Foil Hat LTS wrote:As for the fairings on a 767, sure there are smooth fairings over the wheels

.

Yes the wing fairings extend over the wheel wells on the 767. That isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about the part of the fairings that extend in front of and behind the wing joints with the fuselage. Or do you want us to believe that the wheels extend out from the side of the fuselage in front of wing?


You still haven't posted one single clear photo.

Further we would need multiple images to see if any items change shape or color over a period of time. You can't determine anything from any of those single shots. What is shadow? What is reflected light from the building and then reflected again off the plane? But why does this drone even need this pod (which you haven't proven to be there) anyway? Many of your tin foil heroes say it is a missile. That wouldn't be necessary since the buildings were dropped with explosive charges.

Let me try this again. You have said many time that you believe it was 19 tards and not Bush and one of the (main?) reasons is it would take too many people and that would mean a leak would be too possible.
A) How many people do you think COULD keep it a secret?
B) How many people would be needed to pull of 9-11 from the inside?

How many could keep a secret of that nature? Probably no more than 10 or so. People in those positions are way to selfish not to use that info for personal gain at some point.

If you could read you would know how many people would be necessary to pull of this inside job. Again, not everyone would know everything but they would know their part and when it all went down they would know they were part of an attack. To pull this off there would likely have to be 20 or so on the inside that knew everything.

The photos and videos of "flight 175" with some unusual appendage are quite clear.

Look



Now look at the VERY CLEAR video where we can see this strange appendage is obviously not a reflection.

Look

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huK0MAb0Xa4

As for your tedious squirming as to why a drone would be necessary if the buildings were already wired...how fucking imbecilic can you pretend to be?

Of course the buildings were wired for the controlled demolition we all witnessed. Do you deny the three buildings fell in perfect controlled demolition fashion? Yes or no? C'mon, you cornered little punk, answer a simple question. It's a rhetorical question of course, you don't need to squirm embarrassingly. Yes, the buildings all fell perfectly in their respective footprints exactly as planned. Or..do you have some other comical diversion, yet another feint and dodge as you pretend to actually be a real person?

And, c'mon you pilot, explain again how really easy it is to fly a 757 without any training at all, how simple a 270 degree loop is executed by a total novice.

You are pathetic and so is your hollow attempt at...welll, what are you doing?

LTS TRN 2 wrote: Of course the buildings were wired for the controlled demolition we all witnessed. Do you deny the three buildings fell in perfect controlled demolition fashion?

There isn't anything in that photo that doesn't belong. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to modern aircraft.

Tin Foil Hat LTS wrote:how simple a 270 degree loop is executed by a total novice.

No one executed a 270 degree loop in any of the actual flights or in the drones. Period!

Bat Shit Crazy LTS wrote:explain again how really easy it is to fly a 757 without any training at all

A 10 year old could keep a 757 flying straight and level, descend or climb, or turn to a new heading. An adult could take the plane damn near anywhere they wanted. What they wouldn't be able to do without the training is to start up, taxi, take off or land without decent training. It would take years of flying to land it by hand with a max crosswind at minimums, right down the centerline and in the touchdown zone.

jiminphilly wrote:

LTS TRN 2 wrote: Of course the buildings were wired for the controlled demolition we all witnessed. Do you deny the three buildings fell in perfect controlled demolition fashion?

What's so funny, Jim? Are you suggesting the three towers did not fall in a controlled demolition fashion? What, are you blind as well?

Left Seater wrote:There isn't anything in that photo that doesn't belong. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to modern aircraft.

Tin Foil Hat LTS wrote:how simple a 270 degree loop is executed by a total novice.

No one executed a 270 degree loop in any of the actual flights or in the drones. Period!

Bat Shit Crazy LTS wrote:explain again how really easy it is to fly a 757 without any training at all

A 10 year old could keep a 757 flying straight and level, descend or climb, or turn to a new heading. An adult could take the plane damn near anywhere they wanted. What they wouldn't be able to do without the training is to start up, taxi, take off or land without decent training. It would take years of flying to land it by hand with a max crosswind at minimums, right down the centerline and in the touchdown zone.

Okay, L-seater, so you're saying that a an irregular (on only one side) of "flight 175" was normal? And you watched the very clear video and still maintain this?

Okay, now as for the supposed ease of executing a 320-degree loop (sorry, I had thought it only 270-degrees ), consider..

In the second week of August 2001, Hanjour had attempted to rent a small plane from an airport in Bowie, MD. Flight instructors Sheri Baxter and Ben Conner declined his request, after taking Hanjour on three test runs, noting he had trouble controlling and landing the Cessna 172. Though Hanjour had attended a flight school in Scottsdale, AZ, for four months in 1996 and 1997, he never completed the coursework for a single-engine aircraft license.

It is doubtful that the best trained fighter pilots could have executed the maneuver that supposedly crashed a 757 into the Pentagon. It required making a tight 320-degree turn while descending seven thousand feet, then leveling out so as to fly low enough over the highway just west of the Pentagon to knock down lamp posts. After crossing the highway the pilot had to take the plane to within inches of the ground so as to crash into the Pentagon at the first-floor level and at such a shallow angle that an engine penetrated three rings of the building, while managing to avoid touching the lawn. And he had to do all of this while flying over 400 mph. Quite a feat for a flight school flunky who had never sat in the cockpit of a jet!

It sure was, and yet you attempt to maintain what? "An adult could take the plane damn near anywhere they wanted." ??? Seriously, how do you look in the mirror? I mean if you're just bullshitting, fine. But you cannot be serious and ever hope to be taken seriously while spewing such nonsense.

And as you squirm away from one point to another--embarrassing yourself every mincing little hop--you're left exposed on yet another giant hole in the official story. The quick and shameless destruction of the crushed metal without examination or testing. Care to attempt some spin on that glaring anomaly?

Tin Foil Salesman LTS wrote:Okay, now as for the supposed ease of executing a 320-degree loop

It didn't execute a 320 degree loop either. None of the planes or alleged drones executed any loops, Period!


Why do you continue to lie and just make crap up?

Huh? What, now you're in free-fall denial? The fact that the extremely difficult 320-degree loop was executed (by whatever the craft, and whoever was flying it) has been verified by the air controllers themselves. It's not a matter of contention at all--but rather only the question of how Hanjour executed it. After all, he had never even sat in a 757 cockpit, or as far as anyone knows, practiced with a simulator.

Okay...you're amusing. Tell us why you believe no such 320-degree loop was executed? Are the radar records all wrong? Are all of those professional air controllers just lying? Why? Are you desperately flailing at the prospect of having to Wakey Wake and admit that the New Pearl Harbor was exactly what the PNAC neocons wanted and planned? C'mon.

Here's the report from the official 9/11 Commission Report

According to the 9/11 Commission Report, as Flight 77 was 5 miles (8.0 km) west-southwest of the Pentagon, it made a 330-degree turn. At the end of the turn, it was descending through 2,200 feet (670 m), pointed toward the Pentagon and downtown Washington. Hani Hanjour advanced the throttles to maximum power and dived toward the Pentagon. While level above the ground and seconds from the crash, the wings knocked over five street lampposts and the right wing struck a portable generator, creating a smoke trail seconds before smashing into the Pentagon.] Flight 77, flying at 530 mph (853 km/h, 237 m/s, or 460 knots) over the Navy Annex Building adjacent to Arlington National Cemetery,[38] crashed into the western side of the Pentagon in Arlington County, Virginia, just south of Washington, D.C., at 09:37:46, killing all 53 passengers, five hijackers, and six crew.


Or what? Are you going to quibble about the difference between a "loop" and a "turn"? And of course according to the official story, Hanjour didn't merely execute the expert maneuver, he also guided the 757 in at ground level in a perfect strike.

Hmm..it would seem you're checkmated here. Because the given facts--observed on radar by the air controllers--indicates a very difficult maneuver that no novice could possibly execute. Your claims of how easy it is to fly a 757 are ludicrous at best. And so you're reduced to....what?...just saying black is white?..that established facts agreed on by everyone are just wrong? Seriously, where the fuck are you here? You coyly refuse to say you actually believe the official story--either partly or in whole. What the fuck are you?

Tin Foil LTS wrote:The fact that the extremely difficult 320-degree loop was executed

Funny you are going to the 9/11 Commission Report when you don't believe a word of it anyway. But you have yet again kicked your own ass with your linked quote. They don't say a thing about a loop.

9/11 Commission Report wrote:as Flight 77 was 5 miles (8.0 km) west-southwest of the Pentagon, it made a 330-degree turn

LTS the Short Bus Rider wrote:Are you going to quibble about the difference between a "loop" and a "turn"?

A turn is not a loop you idiot. A loop is performed completely in the vertical plane, not the horizontal plane. Again basic info that even a 3rd grader knows. Your lack of elementary knowledge would be funny, but it is becoming very clear that you rode a short bus to school. I refuse to make fun of special needs people.

LTS expert on everything ever wrote:Your claims of how easy it is to fly a 757 are ludicrous at best.

Exactly how many hours do you have sitting in any cockpit in your log book? Hell, do you even have any flight sim time? Thought so!

Left Seater wrote:Exactly how many hours do you have sitting in any cockpit...

If you count rest stop glory holes as cockpits, it's safe to say that Felchie is one of the most experienced meat pilots on earth.