Who will come out on top...

Sirfindafold · Post by **Sirfindafold** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 6:32 pm

Felix wrote: what was otherwise a fucking snore fest.....

Feeldix will only get excited when some empty suit tells him he'll save him $2,500 a year on healthcare.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:18 pm

I disagree. Jonah Goldberg says it better than I ever could:

I wonder if, right before his show-of-hands question, Bret Baier turned to the guys sitting behind him and said, “Watch this. It is about to go down.”

I don’t have much use for defenses of Donald Trump in general, but the one I have the least patience for is that the opening question to all the candidates of whether they would support the eventual GOP nominee and forgo a third-party run was “unfair.”

Just to set the stage: This was literally the stage -- like the physical stage -- of the next Republican convention. This was the first debate in the contest for the nomination to lead the Republican party. Donald Trump is the frontrunner in the polls for that nomination and he has, several times in recent weeks, suggested he might take his marbles and go if he’s not the nominee. But it was unfair to ask him about it?

Imagine there’s an election for your high-school chess club or your local Shriners group or the Regional Association of Men Who Eat Over the Sink (I’m treasurer). And one guy has been saying over the last couple weeks that if he doesn’t get elected the next president he will quit this organization and set up a rival one. You don’t think it’s fair to ask him about that?

But wait, as an oppo-researcher says to his boss when playing him a video of a Debbie Wasserman Schultz press conference, “Hold on. It gets dumber.”

Contrary to what you might have read over the urinal at Mother Jones, Bret Baier doesn’t work for the GOP. So even if you think it’s unfair for a Republican to expect an answer to that question -- which is crazy talk -- you have to have your head so far up Donald Trump’s red-velvet-lined ass you can see the glow of the nickel slot machines, to think it’s out of bounds for a journalist to ask that question.

And by the way, what’s up with the whining? All I ever hear from Trump supporters is how “he fights” and “he doesn’t back down” and -- of course -- “you just don’t get it.”

Well, if it’s too mean to ask this “fighter” to hold up his hand to answer a question he basically begged the world to ask him, is he really deserving of the label? Trump was given an opportunity to explain his position. Go back and read his response. Here it is:

I cannot say. I have to respect the person that, if it’s not me, the person that wins, if I do win, and I’m leading by quite a bit, that’s what I want to do. I can totally make that pledge. If I’m the nominee, I will pledge I will not run as an independent. But — and I am discussing it with everybody, but I’m, you know, talking about a lot of leverage. We want to win, and we will win. But I want to win as the Republican. I want to run as the Republican nominee.

I know what you’re thinking: It’s like when Abraham Lincoln spoke at Cooper Union. Oh, I don’t mean Lincoln’s address. That was a marvel of erudition and coherence. I mean the crazy shirtless guy with a horseshoe sticking out of his open fly shouting, “Did you feed the cat!?” who was dragged out of the room five minutes before Lincoln spoke.

By the way, I will make a similar pledge. If I’m the nominee, I vow not to run as an independent as well. Similarly, if I’m made King of America I will not make any effort to become King of Australia.

What Don’t I Get Again?

I know, I know. I “just don’t get it.”

Which reminds me, here’s a hint, people: If your best argument is “You just don’t get it,” you’re probably the person who doesn’t get it. Why? Because “You just don’t get it!” is not an argument. Sure, I understand if you say it after you’ve made a serious case with facts, data, and logic. But when you start out with “You just don’t get it,” the brain farting is all on your end of the conversation. It roughly means: “Earth logic is useless in communicating why I think this guy should be the nominee. So I will, like an ugly American, shout the same phrase over and over again on the assumption that with greater decibels comes greater understanding.”

As I learned from wading through a river of pro-Trump tweets last night to the point where I felt like I was escaping Shawshank prison through a sewer pipe, what I apparently don’t get is that Trump won’t commit to the party because he needs “leverage.” The word “leverage” is even in his response; it stands out like a lone crouton in that wilted word salad of his.

I understand why Trump won’t pledge loyalty to the nominee -- it’s not complicated. He’s threatening the party to make nice on him or else. That may be a smart tactic. But if that’s his tactic, what’s your objection to asking him about it again?

Trump, Putanesca Style

By the way, I think Rand Paul was exactly right, if not exactly effective, in his critique of Trump last night. Trump’s argument is that as a businessman he had no choice but to essentially buy politicians.

BAIER: . . . You’ve also supported a host of other liberal policies. Use — you’ve also donated to several Democratic candidates, Hillary Clinton included, Nancy Pelosi.

You explained away those donations saying you did that to get business-related favors.

And you said recently, quote, “When you give, they do whatever the hell you want them to do.”

TRUMP: You’d better believe it.

Trump added a few moments later that as a “businessman”:

I give to everybody. When they call, I give.

And do you know what?

When I need something from them two years later, three years later, I call them, they are there for me.

He even went so far as to insinuate that he bought most of the people on the stage with him last night. That prompted one of my favorite moments. Rubio said he didn’t get any money from Trump adding, “Actually, to be clear, he supported Charlie Crist.”

I remember a time when “the base” hated people who supported Charlie Crist. Now, because of the reality-warping power of Donald Trump, supporting Charlie Crist isn’t only defensible, it’s what all the smart businessmen do.

Seriously: What the Hell is wrong with conservatives who denounce crony capitalism in theory but forgive it in practice? Trump is like a john damning the prostitutes he beds for being whores. Since when does being a businessman mean never having to say you’re sorry?

Oh, and what are we supposed to make of Trump’s boast -- boast! -- that he bribed Hillary Clinton to attend his wedding? Why is this something you would pay for? Why is this something you would admit? I mean, how is this proof of Trump’s shrewdness as a businessman? I get paying Hillary Clinton to get a zoning favor or a tax break or something like that. But how does having Hillary Clinton eating your canapés help your bottom line?

The guy is bragging about how, as the greatest businessman ever, he shrewdly buys politicians -- and his example is getting Hillary Clinton to attend his wedding? I guess not since John D. Rockefeller got Mrs. Harding to attend his daughter’s piano recital has there been a more deft move in the world of high-stakes business. As I joked on Twitter last night, “It profits a man nothing to give his soul to gain the whole world, but for .... Hillary Clinton at your wedding?”

I could of course go on about the idea that the savior of American conservatism is a man who thinks socialized medicine works great in Canada and Scotland and who seems to honestly believe that illegal immigration “was not a subject that was on anybody’s mind until I brought it up at my announcement” two months ago.

But, again, the problem is I “just don’t get it.”

Mikey · Post by **Mikey** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:29 pm

Rooster wrote:Jonah Goldberg says it better than I ever could:

You're absolutely right, but that puts you somewhere in the bottom 1% for coherence.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:38 pm

Rooster wrote:I disagree. Jonah Goldberg says it better than I ever could:

Nice C&P, tardling.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 7:58 pm

Of course it was a cut-n-paste. I said as much. However, the point still remains that Trump is the front runner and as such he is going to be targeted for tough questions, especially since he has a long history of supporting Lefty causes, politicians, and policy positions. Why would you assume he wouldn't? To be fair, every candidate was asked questions concerning a particular issue they have dealt or wrestled with. In that regard, I think the Fox moderators were very even handed.

What is more surprising is that you guys seem to think Trump should have been given a pass on answering questions about his previous statements about running as a third party candidate or his bankruptcies. What? Do want him to get the soft and non-vetting favored treatment that they gave Obama and Bill Clinton? Or the cattle futures treatment Hillary got?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:22 pm

KC Scott wrote: The problem for Fox is it backfired - big time

No doubt. They have absolutely no idea how to handle him. He doesn't fit into the poli-maggot paradigm. Trump was right. It's all about leverage and they have none over him.

BSmack · Post by **BSmack** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:06 pm

I recommend that the GOP double down on trying to push Trump out of the race. I'm sure that there will be no repercussions next year.

Screw_Michigan · Post by **Screw_Michigan** » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:19 pm

88 wrote:Trump ain't gonna make it. And he's going to explode in a fantastic fashion and be bitter when it happens. His support, while presently large, is mostly from people who are completely fed up with everything and everyone associated with any form of government. And I get that. But there is nothing intellectually endearing about Trump. He is popular only because he has the money and balls and charisma to give the finger to everyone else. But he is Fred Thompson (an empty suit) running Bill Burr smack. He has no consistent, identifiable ideology or policies. He's a showman in the PT Barnum mold. He's roped in a few suckers. But it will pass. He ain't presidential material.

The presidential election cycle is a marathon. It ain't a sprint. No one wants to be ahead at this point in time. If small leads early in primaries were significant, we'd be praising President:

Bill burr is the fucking man

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 12:30 am

Contrary to what you might have read over the urinal at Mother Jones, Bret Baier doesn’t work for the GOP. So even if you think it’s unfair for a Republican to expect an answer to that question -- which is crazy talk -- you have to have your head so far up Donald Trump’s red-velvet-lined ass you can see the glow of the nickel slot machines, to think it’s out of bounds for a journalist to ask that question.

Jonah Golberg... nice work.

Anybody supporting Trump is not only a fool, but a tool as well, who should be taken out back and shot thru their numb skull.

Carson, Rubio, Cruz and Huckabee did well.

The rest are sperm belchers whom screwey might vote for... assuming he is registered to vote which is highly doubtful.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:08 am

88 wrote:He (Trump) has no consistent, identifiable ideology or policies.

We've never seen him govern or legislate.

I hear a pretty consistent ideology from him, though.

America first.
Close the border.
Build the military.
WIN in trade.
Create jobs at home.

Just win, baby.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:16 am

poptart wrote:Just win, baby.

Save me, sweet baby Jesus, save me!

He's a two bit whore who would sell his ass on the corner of 12th and Main Street in downtown KCMO if that's what it took to get a cookie.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:39 am

I will not be voting for Trump, Wagon.
So let's get that out of the way.

I was just replying to what 88 said about him.

Yes, he's a sleaze.
He has some good qualities as a human, but he's also a whore.
He's after the bottom line -- and he's after personal glory.
He has a mental problem.
Overly-ambitious and extremely insecure.
Little dick syndrome.

Imo, he's eyed the presidency for a long time, and saw this election cycle as a real opportune moment to go for it.
Say what you will, but the guy is no dummy.
Smart cat.

The whole system deserves to be shit on, so I salute the Donald for his efforts.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 1:51 am

poptart wrote:Just win, baby.

Just what this country needs....a commitment to excrement.

As if that isn't what we've had the last 14.5 years....

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:26 am

mvscal wrote:
KC Scott wrote: The problem for Fox is it backfired - big time
No doubt. They have absolutely no idea how to handle him. He doesn't fit into the poli-maggot paradigm. Trump was right. It's all about leverage and they have none over him.

Fox not only fist-fucked themselves (their agenda was blatant even to their naive daily viewers) But I expect them to double their efforts in desperation with the added element of recovering from their fuck up with Trump. Shoot their whole network may have jumped the shark with this. I expect Trump to gain even more momentum thanks to that bitter cunt Kelly and her bosses at Fox who gave her the script.

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:31 am

I will go one further.... If Trump's popularity keeps snowballing, it wouldn't surprise me if he gets whacked within the year either in an auto or airline crash or a sudden and "mysterious" cardiac event.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:56 am

H4ever wrote:I will go one further...

You need not repetitively sign your certified idiot credentials any further, those are galvanized.

Rooster · Post by **Rooster** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:21 am

H4ever, if you think Fox has jumped the shark after they just scored a record breaking television ratings event I want some of what you're smoking.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 4:22 am

I watched a couple of Lindesy Graham clips from the JV 'tard debate, or whatever it was called.

My analysis:

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:44 am

Screw_Michigan wrote:
Felix wrote:his whole "I used the laws" to justify stiffing a bunch of people out of money (when he declared bankruptcy 4 times) was fucking laughable......if he thinks that's going to garner him votes, he's sadly mistaken.....
I disagree. A majority of Americans don't care if "businesses" file for bankruptcy. They only care when people do.

the other candidates should make it personal if they want to discredit trump's economic "agenda" (whatever it is because he hasn't said).....
point is, Trump hasn't said anything about what he plans to do about anything.....he just talks about getting tough with Iran, Russia, Mexico, China, and about everybody else.....what's he going to do? well that's anybody's guess, but he definitely plans on getting tough with them......seriously, the leaders of all the countries he called out are probably laughing their asses off at the Donald's buffoonery.....

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 6:24 am

Felix wrote:he just talks about getting tough with Iran, Russia, Mexico, China, and about everybody else.....what's he going to do? well that's anybody's guess, but he definitely plans on getting tough with them.

True -- his details have been sparse.

Just wait 'til your father gets home should have been his campaign slogan.

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:03 am

The hairpiece is just a reboot of Ross Perot.

Dinsdale · Post by **Dinsdale** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 7:31 am

So, see if I've got this right...

After giving a thumbs up to the Thumper Contingent, you decide to try and insult someone else with a blast of:

War Wagon wrote:
Save me, sweet baby Jesus, save me!

Go run some windsprints for punishment, idiot.

Carson · Post by **Carson** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:09 am

The Donald is riding a similar wave to the one Jesse "The Body" Ventura rode when he was elected governor of Gopherland.

If Trump goes in, BOTH parties will restructure.

That's a big "if", though.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 3:17 pm

Carson wrote:The Donald is riding a similar wave to the one Jesse "The Body" Ventura rode when he was elected governor of Gopherland.

the thing is that from everything I've read, Ventura was pretty much of a waste as governor....accomplished little other than to unite the two parties he beat in the gubenatorial race......but this is a completely different kettle of fish......if the Donald were elected POTUS his threatening style of foreign diplomacy would be challenged pretty quickly

"President Trump"-Look we're going to have to raise importation fees in order for American Companies to be able to compete economically with your country
"Ambassador of China"-Go ahead and do that and we're going to raise our rates for loaning you money
Trump-We're not going to be borrowing money from you anymore, we're just going to start printing more of our own money so we don't need to borrow from your country
Ambassador-Oh yeah, well good luck with that and let me know how things work out for you. Pretty soon you're dollar will be worth wiping your ass with and that's about all

President Trump to Enrique Peña Nieto President of Mexico
President Trump-"Look Enrique, you're going to have to stop sending us your worst people....your drug dealers, your murderers, your rapists otherwise we're going to have to bulld a wall that's 30 feet high and electrified and we're going to stop importing from your country"
President Nieto-"Sorry President Trump, but we're not sending you anybody. The illegals flowing into your country are fleeing Mexico not being sent to you by our country."
Trump-"Oh, I thought you were just getting rid of your worst people and sending them to us"
President Nieto-"Our state and federal peniteniaries are at their breaking point. If we wanted to send you our worst citizens, we'd be cleaning out our prisons and putting them on a plane headed for Nogales"
Trump-"Oh"

Trump to Vladamir Putin President of Russia
Trump-"Look Vlad, your a bully and a tyrant and you've got to stop invading soverign nations and killing people of countries that do not want to be aligned with Russia
Putin-"Fuck you. What the fuck are you going to do about it"
Trump-"We'll stop importing things from you and by the way, Fuck you too"
Putin-"You don't import anything from us you fucking twit. You start fucking with me and I'm going to start sending significantly more arms to the Iranis and funds to Hamas and I'll be raising the prices for natural gas to all of your allies and lay the blame on you"
Trump-"Oh"

Diego in Seattle · Post by **Diego in Seattle** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:33 pm

Donald J. Trump ‏@realDonaldTrump 16h16 hours ago New Jersey, USA

"@John832TheTruth: @FrankLuntz your focus groups are rigged and your company ran out of $ in 2011. KEEP SPEAKING THE TRUTH! TRUMP 2016!♡"
===============================================================
Dude who filed for bankruptcy four times is mocking someone for running out of money?
:doh:

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 5:56 pm

Dinsdale wrote:So, see if I've got this right...

You don't.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 8:11 pm

War Wagon wrote:He's a two bit whore who would sell his ass on the corner of 12th and Main Street in downtown KCMO if that's what it took to get a cookie.

Uh, no. The Donald is not a whore. He is a pimp. It's an important distinction.

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:30 pm

War Wagon wrote:
H4ever wrote:I will go one further...
You need not repetitively point out that I can suck a mean dick.. that's been established.

FTFY

H4ever · Post by **H4ever** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 9:35 pm

Rooster wrote:H4ever, if you think Fox has jumped the shark after they just scored a record breaking television ratings event I want some of what you're smoking.

Not now of course.... the whole nation will be tuned to see how the network reacts/backpedals after Trump sodomized Megyn Kelly and her script/agenda. The damage was done and the fallout will be over the next few months. But, they do seem to fall in shithouses and come out smelling like a rose all the time, though.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sat Aug 08, 2015 11:04 pm

mvscal wrote:The Donald is not a whore. He is a pimp. It's an important distinction.

No matter the distinction (which is irrelevant in regards to 2016), I'm not buying what he's selling.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 9:36 am

mvscal wrote:Uh, no. The Donald is not a whore. He is a pimp. It's an important distinction.

Give me a break.
He's spent much of his adult life selling himself.

I do think he's been on the pimp end more often, but he's been both, imo.

What he is now is a massive hypocrite.

He stood up in the "debate" and admitted that he's bought off politicians many times.
He's helped to pollute our political system and it helped him to get as rich as he is.

Now he wants to chide all the politicians and claim that he's the only one that can be the white knight in shining armor.
He's going to come to rescue the corrupt and sinking system.

I mean, wtf is that?

The man would have a lot more credibility as the "white knight" if he had never played the dirty game with the other sleaze balls.

Then again, if Mr Over Ambition had kept his dignity and not jumped in the sewer with filthy politicians, he wouldn't be obscenely rich, he wouldn't have the massive profile he has, and and he wouldn't be able to run for president as he is.

The whole thing is just a giant laff.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:22 pm

Papa Willie wrote:But you'll buy it if it comes down to he & Hillary, won't you?

No sir, I will not, and I'm on record elsewhere saying as much.

After witnessing his latest depantsing episode, I feel even more averse to that fraud.

I've voted in every presidential election since 1980 but would probably have to sit this one out. Let's hope and pray that those aren't the choices. I tend to believe the majority of the American electorate have higher standards than that.

But the older I get and the more I see of this depraved world, that opinion is spiraling downward quickly.

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Sun Aug 09, 2015 2:33 pm

Hilary will not be the Dem nominee.
That's just GOP delusion.

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:02 pm

poptart wrote: He stood up in the "debate" and admitted that he's bought off politicians many times.

Oh dear...not that. You must have been inconsolable when you found out that Santa wasn't real.

poptart wrote:The man would have a lot more credibility as the "white knight" if he had never played the dirty game with the other sleaze balls.

There are no white knights and Trump certainly hasn't claimed to be one. The game is dirty and so is everyone in it. I believe that is the point that Trump was making. He isn't claiming to be a savior. He's claiming to be able to make better deals than the current crop of idiots. Granted that's a low bar but do you doubt him?

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:03 pm

Shlomart Ben Yisrael wrote:Hilary will not be the Dem nominee.
That's just GOP delusion.

I don't know who's going to overtake her unless it was Sanders, but his big problem is that he's 73 years old......I don't see any other democrat that could gather enough support from the party base to give Clinton a serious challenge......

if not Clinton, who do you think is going to be the dem nominee?

mvscal · Post by **mvscal** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 4:11 pm

Felix wrote:
I don't know who's going to overtake her unless it was Sanders, but his big problem is that he's 73 years old......

Actually his big problem is that he is a fucking idiot. There's no fool like an old fool. I'm sure you can relate.

Felix · Post by **Felix** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:00 pm

mvscal wrote:
Actually his big problem is that he is a fucking idiot. There's no fool like an old fool. I'm sure you can relate.

dude, you shouldn't be so hard on yourself.....sure you say foolish things all the time, but you're not that old and I don't think you're a fool all the time.....just most of the time

insofar as your opinion of Sanders, it's worth about what I paid for it which is nothing.....like it or not he's the one cutting into Clinton's lead....but sure I think there are better candidates out there......Jim Webb would be an excellent choice, relatively moderate on most democratic issues, but leans more toward the conservative side when it comes to issues of gun control and immigration reform.....his problem is that nobody knows who he is

Lincoln Chaffee-speaking of somebody nobody has ever heard of......

Clinton has a 30 point lead on the next nearest challenger which is Sanders.....there's nobody that's going to mount a serious challenge to her nomination

Shlomart Ben Yisrael · Sun Aug 09, 2015 5:14 pm

mvscal wrote: There's no fool like an old fool.

Pretty much...yeah.

poptart · Post by **poptart** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:34 pm

mvscal wrote:He isn't claiming to be a savior. He's claiming to be able to make better deals than the current crop of idiots. Granted that's a low bar but do you doubt him?

Trump claims over and over that he's "the only one who can do it."
He says that none of the politicians can get us out of the ditch.
He sure IS portraying himself as the savior.

No, I don't doubt that he would make better deals for American than the rest of the slaps.
There is more that goes into the job than deal-making.

I posted this at .net about a month ago...

poptart wrote:Why a NO for me on Trump?

1. He is not a man of God. I know this does not matter to many/most voters. It matters to me.

2. I don't think he cares about your 4th Amendment. I've heard him talk on this issue. "The ends justify the means" is his basic attitude.

3. Along the same lines, I question how much he really cares about the Constitution, in general. I think he's a pragmatist. He's "bottom line" oriented. I think we would see him stepping on parts of our law that he thinks are impediments to what he wants to see happen.

4. I fear he could end up being a MAJOR war hawk.

5. I fear he could be a gigantic MELTDOWN. He has a thin skin. When he feels someone has slighted him, he lashes -- and lashes HARD.

I respect Trump for speaking out strongly on the Obama fraud.
Few have done that, and he took a lot of heat for it.
I'd like to be able to vote for him, but at the end of the day, I don't believe in him.
In fact, I think those who are loudly pushing for him would end up regretting it A LOT at a later time.

I see nobody to vote for.
And I have less than 0% respect for a few of the empty suits who are whoring for our vote.

War Wagon · Post by **War Wagon** » Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:57 pm

poptart wrote: I respect Trump for speaking out strongly on the Obama fraud.
Few have done that...

Absolute, categorical bullshit. The list of influential people who have spoken out against Obama is long and goes back further that your apparently very short memory. It's not hard to do, almost a reflexive action by now.

I see nobody to vote for.
And I have less than 0% respect for a few of the empty suits who are whoring for our vote.

So don't vote then, and while it's impossible to have less than 0% of anything, your number is fast approaching that... in my estimation of what your opinion has been worth lately.