T1B

Posted: **Fri Oct 27, 2017 11:55 pm**

The feds have been there doing a lot, as have many private charities. And I suspect many of those private charities showed up with good ole fashioned diesel generators which have provided more kilowatts of power than elon and his magic walls have. But they won't get as much press because they're not all cool and green.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 2:24 pm**

smackaholic wrote:Nordic states have outstanding hydro power potential. I suspect this is where most of their renewable power comes from. It sure the fukk ain't solar. I am a big fan of hydro. Quebec uses a lot of it as well.

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They use hydrogen as well. The most abundant element in the universe.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 3:46 pm**

Many different things going on in this thread.

First off why are we bitching about who or how a hospital was brought back on line. There is a humanitarian crisis ongoing on the island and this is helping. Is it portable and as powerful or reliable as other methods, hell no. But that shouldn’t be the point. A hospital large or small is back online.

Fiatlux’s insinuation that one political ideology has the high ground on getting things done or charitable giving is laughable.

Say what you want about Musk but dude knows how to make coin. Sure his company hasn’t been all that innovative but maybe they have a big battery breakthrough at some point. Dude is nails at getting the rich to line up for a status vehicle that is impractical to drive outside of major metropolitan areas.

As for solar and wind and tidal power generation they are all solid on small scale projects. I have no doubt Mikey’s magic shade tree has lowered his electric costs at a small cost to us. But Mikey is unlikely to disconnect from the grid anytime soon. The magic shade tree just isn’t ready to provide all his power needs at all times. But if we could get the battery storage figured out then maybe he could.

And battery storage is where the R&D dollars should be going. We don’t need to fund the next solar or wind upgrade. Hell, we have a ton of wind and solar generation as it is that sits idle for far too long. Figure out better battery storage and then we have the real game changer on renewable energy.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 4:19 pm**

Left Seater wrote:Many different things going on in this thread.

First off why are we bitching about who or how a hospital was brought back on line. There is a humanitarian crisis ongoing on the island and this is helping. Is it portable and as powerful or reliable as other methods, hell no. But that shouldn’t be the point. A hospital large or small is back online.

yes, it is a good thing that a few folks in San Juan have power. My complaint is about the $$$/kw hr spent.

Fiatlux’s insinuation that one political ideology has the high ground on getting things done or charitable giving is laughable.

Everything mstool says is laughable

Say what you want about Musk but dude knows how to make coin. Sure his company hasn’t been all that innovative but maybe they have a big battery breakthrough at some point. Dude is nails at getting the rich to line up for a status vehicle that is impractical to drive outside of major metropolitan areas.

I disagree about his making coin. Tesla hasn't made one thin dime yet. He is very gifted at getting government coin/private investments

As for solar and wind and tidal power generation they are all solid on small scale projects. I have no doubt Mikey’s magic shade tree has lowered his electric costs at a small cost to us. But Mikey is unlikely to disconnect from the grid anytime soon. The magic shade tree just isn’t ready to provide all his power needs at all times. But if we could get the battery storage figured out then maybe he could.

They all have their place. Solar is great in some areas for off grid living. Maybe it even makes sense at casa miguely or wolfie's place. It just doesn't need big subsidies. It should stand/fall on its own

And battery storage is where the R&D dollars should be going. We don’t need to fund the next solar or wind upgrade. Hell, we have a ton of wind and solar generation as it is that sits idle for far too long. Figure out better battery storage and then we have the real game changer on renewable energy.

Agreed concerning batteries. I do not know a great deal about Li Ion batteries beyond the fact that they are very expensive, potentially explosive and the mining of the raw materials is environmentally damaging and these materials are abundant in some not very nice places. For the life of me, I can not understand why anyone thinks it is a good idea to use them for large stationary storage.

But doing so in large quantities does bring down unit costs, which the greenies will point to and say, "see, they are financially viable". I just wonder what happens when the lithium gets harder to acquire.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:10 pm**

smackaholic wrote:He got a small hospital back on line in San Juan. I would like to see the price tag before pronouncing it efficient.

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Your hero left millions of Americans to die because they can't vote for him and they aren't white. Stick that in your fucking pipe and smoke it, pal.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:23 pm**

Screw_Michigan wrote:
smackaholic wrote:He got a small hospital back on line in San Juan. I would like to see the price tag before pronouncing it efficient.

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Your hero left millions of Americans to die because they can't vote for him and they aren't white. Stick that in your fucking pipe and smoke it, pal.

Fed assistance has been pulled?

Got a link for that, dumbfukk?

Or do you think the D should stay down there and run a chainsaw for a few weeks. He actually did make an appearance which you fukks criticized because he tossed supplies to a crowd rather than handing them over somberly and crying.

And millions of PRs can vote. In fact, the PR vote in Florida is substantial and any republican is fuct without it.

I don't smoke pipes and you ain't my pal.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:24 pm**

Papa Willie wrote:If you look at how almost all other technologies have advanced over the last 50 years, the battery/solar shit has fallen WAY behind. Just sayin'.

It is also terrible how these companies take so many federal dollars and then go belly up. Thanks Obama!

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 5:27 pm**

Papa Willie wrote:If you look at how almost all other technologies have advanced over the last 50 years, the battery/solar shit has fallen WAY behind. Just sayin'.

There have been cost reductions. Part of that is actual advancement, but a good bit is chinese slave labor and gubmint cayshe infusions.

I don't have a problem with a little gubmint support in R&D, but slapping down panels on millions of roofs/MSTs is not R&D. It is corporate welfare.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:31 pm**

Papa Willie wrote:It would just seem to me if they kept up with the tech curve, that they'd have panels that were a quarter of the size of what you see, and about 100x's more efficient.

A typical PV panel will convert about 20% of insolation to electricity. Not sure how it's going to be 100X more efficient.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:50 pm**

Yeah, PV cells are a pretty mature technology. Don't know what sort of gains there are left out there. I think the best you can hope for is some sort of breakthrough in cost. But, I ain't holding my breath. Been a whole bunch of reasonably bright mofos trying to figure it out for many years.

Batteries is a different story. This is where the gains will be.

I was able to find an article saying that system in PR is good for 500KW. I wonder just what that means? I suspect that is probably the output at noon with full sun and a full battery pack. It is not a constant output.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 6:56 pm**

Next thing you know Puerto Rico will have fans for their cows.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:22 pm**

If they could run those fans off cow farts, I would be OK with it.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 7:54 pm**

smackaholic wrote: Batteries is a different story. This is where the gains will be.

Not likely. Storage batteries, in oversimplified terms, are 2 dissimilar materials that have the ability to have electron jump between them, to create a flow (oversimplified). So what magic new element is going to be able to store more electrons than we already have? Not a whole lot of technology involved in sticking 2 chunks of metal in a box.

Any large gains in electrical storage will be converting something to something else and back. For example, breaking water into H and O during peak times, then burning it to spin a turbine when the solar/wind can't run the grid. This example likely wouldn't be very efficient, but that's why we have chemists and shit.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:05 pm**

Two ponds at dissimilar elevations, a pump and turbine. You are welcome.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:11 pm**

Moving Sale wrote:Two ponds at dissimilar elevations, a pump and turbine. You are welcome.

We've discussed this before. I believe you (who I believe have actually seen this setup) said it was likely difficult to run on a large scale.

But logistic aside, it seems like the easiest way... if you have dissimilar locations. It would take one hell of a tank/tower to pull it off in Kansas (although Kansas is next to Colorado, last I checked).

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:49 pm**

Moving Sale wrote:...dissimilar elevations...

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:50 pm**

Three words.
Big concrete blocks.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 8:52 pm**

That would work. Not sure about how friction loss would factor in.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:07 pm**

Lube.
You have heard of lube?

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:15 pm**

That's the stuff that's all over your high chair after a Friday night at M2's house, right?

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 9:23 pm**

Water has been used in places where you have water and elevation variations. Efficiency is somewhere around 85% if I recall. Efficiency gets better with larger scale. There is a company somewhere out west that is using railcars loaded full of rock with electric motors. Excess power, you push the cars up the track, need power, draw from the motors as they roll back down. I believe efficiency is similar to hydro.

So, it can be done, safely, reliably and relatively cheaply. Better in every way than a huge warehouse full of Li Ion cells. That stuff should be used for mobile applications only, or in very limited semi-mobile military applications or extremely remote situations where refueling is not practical.

But for a hospital in PR? Roll in the generators and a tanker of diesel, and get the fukking locals off their asses to fix the grid.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:16 pm**

Screw_Michigan wrote:
smackaholic wrote:He got a small hospital back on line in San Juan. I would like to see the price tag before pronouncing it efficient.

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Your hero left millions of Americans to die because they can't vote for him and they aren't white. Stick that in your fucking pipe and smoke it, pal.

And you are allegedly a journalist? No wonder so few Americans trust the media. What utter bullshit.

Posted: **Sat Oct 28, 2017 10:43 pm**

He's only slightly more looney than any of the network "news" programs, or CNN, MSNBC.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2017 1:32 am**

Left Seater wrote: And you are allegedly a journalist? No wonder so few Americans trust the media. What utter bullshit.

Yeah, I'm not exactly a sycophant of the president.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2017 12:30 pm**

Screw_Michigan wrote:
Left Seater wrote: And you are allegedly a journalist? No wonder so few Americans trust the media. What utter bullshit.
Yeah, I'm not exactly a sycophant of the president.

Yeah we got that. But still no excuse for that statement.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:12 pm**

You probably kept your mouth shut when he took shots at Obama during the last 8 years.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:18 pm**

To his credit, he was critical to Obama for not being sufficiently communist and he was more or less ignored for it. As for his ridiculous pushing of the Trump hates brown folks and has withheld aid to the PRs, it is indisputably bullshit.

The worst thing you could say regarding Trump and PR is that he has been critical of the corrupt incompetent PR government officials. Some would say presidential decorum demands he not make these hurtful statements, but you know what?

Fukk decorum.

Time to call a spade a spade. If this gets the libs butthurt, fine.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2017 3:25 pm**

smackaholic wrote:As for his ridiculous pushing of the Trump hates brown folks and has withheld aid to the PRs, it is indisputably bullshit.

Time to call a spade a spade.

You really are a stupid fuck.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2017 5:55 pm**

Of course, you, being a stupid racist POS assume that the term "call a spade a spade" has racial origins.

It does not.

Dumbfukk.

Any you jumping up and down, insisting it does, does not change this fact.

Now kindly fukk the fukk off.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2017 6:23 pm**

Connotations. And yes it does. If you think the orangepedobear isn't a racist you are dummer than you act.

Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2017 7:36 pm**

[quote="Moving Sale"]Connotations. And yes it does. If you think the orangepedobear isn't a racist you are dummer than you act.[/]

Dummer?

Could you show me an example of his racist behavior?

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Posted: **Sun Oct 29, 2017 10:29 pm**

My solar will pay for itself in about 4.5 years. Yes it was expensive to put in, but I don't have an electric bill anymore, one of my cars rarely uses any gas, I sell the extra back to the electric company. Honestly I can't understand why every roof (in a sunny state, i.e. not Ohio) isn't made out of the panels.

Lots and lots of parking lots are getting covered with panel carports around here too. Electricity being made and the cars are cooler because of the shade. Win-win.

As for solar people staying on the grid and not using batteries, I can't give my extra to the grid if I'm not connected.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2017 12:02 am**

I am all for people using solar for their homes and pumping the excess back into the grid IF they are doing it on their own dime. In a good part of the west and maybe some parts of the south, it probably can stand on its own financially as well. And the parking lot magic shade trees make sense as well as they provide the added benefit of keeping cars cool/dry. And in my neck of the woods they also make winter snow plowing at the workplace a lot easier.

Does that 4.5 year payback factor in subsidies?

Given a 30 year life, they should make sense even without the subsidies.

Posted: **Mon Oct 30, 2017 3:59 pm**

smackaholic wrote:I am all for people using solar for their homes and pumping the excess back into the grid IF they are doing it on their own dime. In a good part of the west and maybe some parts of the south, it probably can stand on its own financially as well. And the parking lot magic shade trees make sense as well as they provide the added benefit of keeping cars cool/dry. And in my neck of the woods they also make winter snow plowing at the workplace a lot easier.

Does that 4.5 year payback factor in subsidies?

Given a 30 year life, they should make sense even without the subsidies.

Yes, the subsidy was just under 30% so adding back in the subsidy we would have broken even in just over 6 years. We still would have done it but locking in while the subsidy was available certainly encouraged us to get it done quickly.

And since the subsidy came back as a tax refund several months later we used that money to pay the difference between my trade in and the new electric car. Another big tax refund is coming.

T1B

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