T1B

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:42 pm**

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 12:23 pm Awesome photos, L45B. Once day, I'll make it there.

As a player?

:smile:

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2023 5:22 pm**

Softball Bat wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 1:42 pm
Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 12:23 pm Awesome photos, L45B. Once day, I'll make it there.
As a player?

:smile:

Haha, those days are past me.

Posted: **Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:59 pm**

This Galan-Evans match has had a lot of serve and volley, especially in this third set. Knew you guys would love that!

Evans has a great serve for a guy who's 5-9.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 1:10 am**

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:59 pm This Galan-Evans match has had a lot of serve and volley, especially in this third set. Knew you guys would love that!

Evans has a great serve for a guy who's 5-9.

Evans v. Van de Zandschulp (round 2) will be an interesting match.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 1:16 am**

Of note, 4th seed Holger Rune lost in the 1st round.

63rd ranked Roberto Carballes Baena did the trick.

Posted: **Wed Aug 30, 2023 5:49 am**

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Tue Aug 29, 2023 10:59 pm This Galan-Evans match has had a lot of serve and volley, especially in this third set. Knew you guys would love that!

Evans has a great serve for a guy who's 5-9.

Evans is a scrapper and can give certain players lots of trouble (see Taylor Fritz). He does like to finish points at the net more than most players. He’s had some dips this summer but could make noise at the Open this year. Agree with Bat, next match versus Botic will be interesting.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 5:12 am**

Some interesting happenings in round 2.

5th seed Casper Ruud lost in 5 sets to China's Zhizhen Zhang, ranked 67 in the world.

American Ben Shelton defeated 2020 US Open Champion Domiic Thiem, who retired early in the 2nd set, after dropping the 1st set.
Good job, Yankee!

7th seed Stephanos Tsitsipas lost in 5 sets to Switzerland's Dominic Stricker, ranked just 128 in the world.
Pretty big upset right there.

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 12:32 pm**

Softball Bat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 5:12 am 5th seed Casper Ruud lost

You called it

Posted: **Thu Aug 31, 2023 11:40 pm**

Haha, this is hilarious

https://apnews.com/article/us-open-mari ... b55f4e7ea4

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:56 am**

Somebody(s) likes -----> the weed!

poptart wrote:Evans v. Van de Zandschulp (round 2) will be an interesting match.

Evans wins it.
He will face Alcaraz (#1 seed) in round 3.

Cam Norrie might be waiting (for Alcaraz) in the round of 16.

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 11:33 am**

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 11:40 pm Haha, this is hilarious

https://apnews.com/article/us-open-mari ... b55f4e7ea4

The All England Lawn & Tennis Club should invite the folks responsible to next year's Wimbledon tournament. They'll do record sales of strawberries & cream...

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 1:09 pm**

Softball Bat wrote: ↑Thu Aug 31, 2023 5:12 am 5th seed Casper Ruud lost in 5 sets to China's Zhizhen Zhang, ranked 67 in the world.

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:01 pm**

Rack!

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:06 pm**

Poptart or L45B, do either of you hear a head accessory while you play? I wear a hat when I play to obviously keep the sun out of my eyes while outdoor but to also protect my forehead and to absorb all the sweat. My point is I am amazed at all the pro tennis players who don't wear anything. Don't they sweat? The 2 pm sun doesn't bother them?

I think for the most part guys like Wawrinka don't wear hats because they have amazing hair and they want to remind everyone of that fact.

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 2:36 pm**

I never wore a hat.

I occasionally wore a headband, but generally only on a very hot day.

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:32 pm**

Why is it so important to break serve? I get the conventional wisdom is that serving is like being on offense in football. Just wondering if there is more to it.

Posted: **Fri Sep 01, 2023 7:39 pm**

This Frenchman Tiafoe is playing looks like your average joe getting his recreation action on over the weekend.

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:10 am**

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Fri Sep 01, 2023 6:32 pm Why is it so important to break serve? I get the conventional wisdom is that serving is like being on offense in football. Just wondering if there is more to it.

https://www.atptour.com/en/stats/service-games-won

If you click the link you will see the career ATP leaders in holding serve percentage.

At just #200 on the list is Jonas Bjorkman.
And he held serve 75% of the time.

So yeah, in tennis, and especially pro tennis, the server is expected to win the game he is serving.

On a given point, the server has two opportunities to initiate the striking of the ball where his opponent has absolutely no say in the matter.
And he gets to strike the ball from a position over his head, which means he is hitting down on the ball.

The server has a very big advantage, and especially on a faster court surface.

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:39 am**

Thanks Bat. So what is the deal with coaching and the pros? They are literally mic'ing up the coaches. They are coaching them Instead of just giving them words of encouragement as they were at the junior tournament I attended. Legal in on the tour but not for juniors?

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 2:52 am**

Controversies involving "coaching" on the pro tour have been happening for a very long time.
It is, and has been, prohibited.

Perhaps some day the powers that be will relent and simply allow for one coach to come and sit right on the court, so he can openly coach the player on the change overs.
This is how it is in Davis Cup, and other tennis team competitions.

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 6:58 am**

NoVax dropped the first two sets of his 3rd round match.
Then he rolled in the next 3 sets to take the win.
He is through to the round of 16.

Four Americans (T. Fritz, B. Shelton, F. Tiafoe, and T. Paul) are alive and through to the round of 16 in the bottom half of the draw.
There is a pretty good chance that at least one of them will make it to the semifinals, imo.

There are NO Americans alive in the top half of the draw.

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:38 am**

Bat;
I'm not going to look it up, but would it be a fair statement that the majority of those at the top of the list of the best at holding serve get the majority of their wins on clay courts?

Also, QB's have radios in their helmets. With today's tech could you see players being allowed to wear bluetooth devices to communicate or at least listen to their coaches?

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:26 pm**

Diego wrote:I'm not going to look it up, but would it be a fair statement that the majority of those at the top of the list of the best at holding serve get the majority of their wins on clay courts?

It is an interesting proposition, but probably not.

Here are the all-time top 10 best at holding serve...

1. Ivo Karlovic
2. John Isner
3. Milos Raonic
4. Andy Roddick
5. Roger Federer
6. Pete Sampras
7. Nick Kyrgios
8. Wayne Arthurs
9. Matteo Berrettini
10. Richard Krajicek

I was surprised to see Kyrgios at #7 all-time.

I believe most of these guys racked up wins on faster courts, Diego.

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:03 pm**

Softball Bat wrote: ↑Sat Sep 02, 2023 12:26 pm
Diego wrote:I'm not going to look it up, but would it be a fair statement that the majority of those at the top of the list of the best at holding serve get the majority of their wins on clay courts?
It is an interesting proposition, but probably not.

Here are the all-time top 10 best at holding serve...

1. Ivo Karlovic
2. John Isner
3. Milos Raonic
4. Andy Roddick
5. Roger Federer
6. Pete Sampras
7. Nick Kyrgios
8. Wayne Arthurs
9. Matteo Berrettini
10. Richard Krajicek

I believe most of these guys racked up wins on faster courts, Diego.

I only recognize 4, 5 & 6's names. Why aren't there names from the 70's & 80's?

Posted: **Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:02 pm**

Boris Becker is #16
Agassi (began in the late '80s) is #30
Then it is Edberg and Lendl at 51 and 52

It is a good question, Diego.

I suspect it has to do with equipment.
Players were almost exclusively using wood racquets in the '70s, and it was not possible to *ROCKET* a serve with a wood racquet.
In the '80s, the game was transitioning toward materials other than wood, and players began to get more velocity on the serve, making it easier to hold serve.
By the '90s, wood racquets were completely gone, and a lot of players were then able to *ROCKET* serves.

Posted: **Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:32 am**

Bat, can you expound upon why you think racquet technology has eliminated the serve and volley? When I try to serve and volley, I notice guys shoot around me, over me. What does racquet technology have to do with that, other than my first serve isn't strong enough to put the opponent off balance and thus reduces my chances of doing a proper serve and volley.

Posted: **Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:36 am**

If you take a wood racquet out to the court you will quickly find that you cannot generate much power with it.
In the wood racquet era, it was not possible for players to blow other players off the court with their groundstrokes, as they do now.

In the wood era, the way to gain advantage was to get to the net, because at the net, you could generate ANGLES, which the opponent would not be able to chase.
Generally, the player who got to the net more often was the player that was winning the match.
And the fastest, and best, way to get to the net was to follow your serve right to the net -- serve & volley.
Of course, to so so, you had to have a decent serve.

In the late '80s, Andre Agassi came out and just started CRUSHING the ball from the baseline (with his composite racquet, of course).
No need to get to the net and generate angles, because he was OVERPOWERING opponents with the sheer speed of his groundstrokes.
Ivan lendl had done this to some extent a few years earlier, but Agassi took it to the next level.
And then other players soon realized they could do the same thing -- just bashing the hell out of the ball from the baseline, and overpowering the opponent.

Playing the way Agassi (and others) did (and are now) means that you are using a semi-western grip on the forehand.
Or a full western grip.
These grips are not conducive to successful net play, where you ought to be using a continental grip on the forehand.
And players who use two hands on the backhand generally don't volley as well on the backhand side as players who use one hand on the backhand, as nearly all players were doing in the wood era.
And a whole lot of the baseline bashers of today's game are using two hands on the backhand.

There are more factors, but if you think about these things, it is a good start to understanding why serve & volley had almost completely died out.

Posted: **Sun Sep 03, 2023 10:17 am**

The round of 16 match-ups are all set.

Zverev v. Sinner (top half) is an interesting one.

On the bottom half of the draw I am interested in the all American match between B. Shelton and T. Paul.
The winner of that will meet American F. Tiafoe in the quarterfinals, if Tiafoe can take care of his business against R. Hijikata, ranked just 110 in the world.

Posted: **Sun Sep 03, 2023 12:50 pm**

Softball Bat wrote: ↑Sun Sep 03, 2023 2:36 am If you take a wood racquet out to the court you will quickly find that you cannot generate much power with it.
In the wood racquet era, it was not possible for players to blow other players off the court with their groundstrokes, as they do now.

In the wood era, the way to gain advantage was to get to the net, because at the net, you could generate ANGLES, which the opponent would not be able to chase.
Generally, the player who got to the net more often was the player that was winning the match.
And the fastest, and best, way to get to the net was to follow your serve right to the net -- serve & volley.
Of course, to so so, you had to have a decent serve.

In the late '80s, Andre Agassi came out and just started CRUSHING the ball from the baseline (with his composite racquet, of course).
No need to get to the net and generate angles, because he was OVERPOWERING opponents with the sheer speed of his groundstrokes.
Ivan lendl had done this to some extent a few years earlier, but Agassi took it to the next level.
And then other players soon realized they could do the same thing -- just bashing the hell out of the ball from the baseline, and overpowering the opponent.

Playing the way Agassi (and others) did (and are now) means that you are using a semi-western grip on the forehand.
Or a full western grip.
These grips are not conducive to successful net play, where you ought to be using a continental grip on the forehand.
And players who use two hands on the backhand generally don't volley as well on the backhand side as players who use one hand on the backhand, as nearly all players were doing in the wood era.
And a whole lot of the baseline bashers of today's game are using two hands on the backhand.

There are more factors, but if you think about these things, it is a good start to understanding why serve & volley had almost completely died out.

Thanks friend!

Posted: **Mon Sep 04, 2023 1:12 am**

Three Americans have made it to the quarterfinals in the bottom half of the draw.
Tiafoe, Shelton, Fritz.

Tiafoe v. Shelton in one of the quarters.
Fritz will probably face Djokovic.

I am old.
I remember watching Shelton's father, Bryan, play in the 1990s.

Posted: **Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:07 am**

Softball Bat wrote: ↑Mon Sep 04, 2023 1:12 am I am old.
I remember watching Shelton's father, Bryan, play in the 1990s.

Rack you, Bat. I was (of course) at this match Sunday and saw Bryan in the crowd. Life is short.

By the way, Ben Shelton was serving up absolute bombs. Clocked TWO serves (in the same game) at 149mph which is a new record (previously held by Fritz).

I heard a kid behind me tell his dad: “Look at the (Rolex) clock, it says 1:49 too.” He hit a 149mph serve at the exact time 1hr 49m had elapsed in the match. Crazy. (I only got a picture of the mph clock)

Posted: **Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:58 am**

Rack!

Shelton v. Tiafoe will be very interesting.

Posted: **Tue Sep 05, 2023 4:13 am**

If Shelton plays like he did versus Tommy Paul, he will beat Tiafoe.

I don’t see him being able to keep that up, at least not yet in his career. But he has a bright future.

Tiafoe in 4.

Posted: **Tue Sep 05, 2023 4:49 am**

I also like Tiafoe in that match.

But as far as Shelton's firepower, check out the 3 forehands he hits beginning at 0:32 of this video.

You can hear the crowd *gasp* when he hits the first one.
Then the 2nd one is even harder.

lol

Crazy.

Posted: **Tue Sep 05, 2023 10:07 am**

poptart wrote:If the top 8 seeds all make it to the quarterfinals, which they won't, it will look like this...

(1) C. Alcaraz
(6) J. Sinner

(3) A, Medvedev
(8) A. Rublev

(5) C. Ruud
(4) H. Rune

(7) S. Tsitsipas
(2) N. Djokovic

Well, the quarterfinals match-ups are set.

It looks like this...

(1) C. Alcaraz
(12) A. Zverev

(3) A, Medvedev
(8) A. Rublev

(10) F. Tiafoe
(us) B.shelton

(9) T. Fritz
(2) N. Djokovic

Posted: **Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:22 pm**

SM, if you have a chance, check out some of the doubles action.
It is a good change of pace, and you can also find out a lot about successful net play, and the serve & volley.

Posted: **Tue Sep 05, 2023 1:22 pm**

Softball Bat wrote: ↑Tue Sep 05, 2023 12:22 pm SM, if you have a chance, check out some of the doubles action.
It is a good change of pace, and you can also find out a lot about successful net play, and the serve & volley.

Thanks friend. I made sure to watch some doubles at the junior tournament I attended. I'll make sure to watch some US Open doubles. ESPN+ has all the doubles matches available on demand.

I played in a singles tournament yesterday and tried to do as much serve and volley as I could. I had some good moments, a few overhand smashes that I got from putting the opponent off balance, but I had more than a few that I screwed up. It was frustrating. I have determined that my serve isn't strong enough to head right to the net after a serve and that I need to wait for my moment where I put an opponent off balance with a good shot. I had an opponent where I could literally watch him slow down and aim his shot over me or around me when I ran to the net. That was frustrating but eye opening as I could literally see him notice me attack the net and try to shoot around me.

Doing volleys properly is very difficult for me and resulted in me screwing up a handful of great opportunities at the net after I put an opponent off balance. Those should have been points in my favor.

I also really need to get a slice simply to make an opponent take me seriously near the net. They just hang out at the baseline as I try to work the corners. Then they do the slice and make me rush to the net to get their slices. Very frustrating.

Nothing like a tournament to bring me back down to earth.

Posted: **Tue Sep 05, 2023 1:56 pm**

You've got to be able to do something substantial with the serve in order to make the serve & volley tactic work.
And yes, you, like most players who are just finding their way, will have your struggles with net play.

You learn a whole lot from losing.

My first coach told me, "You have to take some lumps before you can give some lumps."

Painful, and I did not like it, but very true.

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2023 12:37 am**

Well, the quarterfinals match-ups are set.

It looks like this...

(1) C. Alcaraz
(12) A. Zverev

(3) A, Medvedev
(8) A. Rublev

(10) F. Tiafoe
(us) B.shelton

(9) T. Fritz
(2) N. Djokovic

NoVax, so fundamentally sound, rolled Fritz in straight sets.

The courts are playing slow this year, and I think that works to Djoker's advantage.

It is hard for me to picture either Tiafoe or Shelton having enough to take Djokovic out.

Posted: **Wed Sep 06, 2023 1:03 am**

I just heard that too. How do hard courts play slower?

T1B

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