T1B

Otis Wrote:
Roman Catholic Priest = pedophile

tough love wrote:Chalk one up for The Hapday Party:

Pallister: the Conservative MP who took down David Dingwall
http://www.hilltimes.com/html/index.php ... ister/&c=1


Donuts for Dingwad:
http://www.canadafreepress.com/2005/weinreb100305.htm

tough love wrote:^
What's wrong O, are his actions not contemptible enough for your poli taste. Is Pallister not corruptable enough for libby love?
Give him a chance 'Bro, he could change.

Question:
What is the number one reason that your lib's will get re-elected?

Still, firearm homicides in Canada were much lower than those in the United States, coming in at 28 per cent compared with 66 per cent.

In total, police reported 622 homicides last year, 73 more than in 2003.

That worked out to a rate of 1.95 for every 100,000 population, which was 12 per cent higher than in 2003 and three per cent higher than the average during the previous decade.

The 2004 rise nationally was mainly due to an increase of 22 homicides in Alberta, 18 in British Columbia and 12 in Quebec. And among cities, Winnipeg, Edmonton, Vancouver, Calgary and Montreal together accounted for 75 per cent of the increase.

However, while homicide is often thought of as a major urban phenomenon, murder rates outside cities are typically as high or higher than those within urban centres, and that was the case in 2004, Statistics Canada said.

At the provincial level, Manitoba recorded 13 homicides committed with a firearm, giving it the highest provincial rate for 2004 and displacing British Columbia and Quebec which had held that distinction for a decade.

"Police reported that 74 spouses were killed in 2004, down from 78 the year before, and the third consecutive annual decline," the agency said.

"Of the 62 female victims of spousal homicide, 27 women were killed by their legally-married husband, 20 by a common-law husband and 15 by a separated or divorced husband.

"Of the 12 male victims, three were killed by their legally-married wife, eight by their common-law wife and one by a separated or divorced wife."

Homicide includes first-degree murder, second-degree murder, manslaughter or infanticide. Deaths caused by criminal negligence, suicide, and accidental or justifiable homicide were not included.

Stabbings accounted for 33 per cent of all homicides, beatings for 22 per cent and strangulation-suffocation a further 10 per cent.

"Police reported 18 prostitutes killed, 11 of which were directly related to their profession," the agency said.

Another 81 victims were involved in activities such as drug trafficking and gang violence.

And as in previous years, most homicides were committed by someone known to the victim.

The agency also said:

-Homicides involving relationships with intimate partners doubled to 22 from 11 in 2003.

-Thirty-six children were killed by their parent, 17 parents were killed by their child, 11 victims were killed by a sibling.

-The number of youths aged 12 to 17 accused of homicide fell to 40 from 57 in 2003.

-Seventy people were killed by someone police believed was suffering from mental illness.

-Manitoba and Saskatchewan had the highest overall homicide rate among provinces, followed by Alberta and British Columbia. The lowest rates were in Prince Edward Island and Newfoundland and Labrador.

-

A list of cities with the homicide rate per 100,000 population (and number of homicides) in 2004:

Regina: 4.98 (10)

Winnipeg: 4.89 (34)

Edmonton: 3.39 (34)

Saskatoon: 3.30 (8)

Vancouver: 2.58 (56)

Halifax: 2.37 (9)

Calgary: 1.91 (20)

Toronto: 1.80 (94)

Montreal: 1.73 (63)

Otis Wrote:
Granting a special priviledge to allow a convicted criminal that is still on parole by expediting Martha Stewart's paperwork to allow her entry into Canada is just fucking wrong.

Otis Wrote:
maybe it is time to toss them out.. the whole fucking lot of them, regardless of their political stripes.

tough love wrote: Here's a thought:
Perhaps, we the people could unite nationally, put our party favorites on hold, demand reform, and let those po$ers know full well that we will keep changing governments every four years until one of 'em gets with the reform program.

Hapday wrote:

tough love wrote: Here's a thought:
Perhaps, we the people could unite nationally, put our party favorites on hold, demand reform, and let those po$ers know full well that we will keep changing governments every four years until one of 'em gets with the reform program.

Canadians can start by tossing ANY government the minute (or next election) that they are found to be corrupt.

BSmack wrote:

Hapday wrote:

tough love wrote: Here's a thought:
Perhaps, we the people could unite nationally, put our party favorites on hold, demand reform, and let those po$ers know full well that we will keep changing governments every four years until one of 'em gets with the reform program.

Canadians can start by tossing ANY government the minute (or next election) that they are found to be corrupt.

So you're an anarchist?

Hapday wrote:

BSmack wrote:

Hapday wrote: Canadians can start by tossing ANY government the minute (or next election) that they are found to be corrupt.

So you're an anarchist?

No.

BSmack wrote:

Hapday wrote:

BSmack wrote: So you're an anarchist?

No.

Then you need to show us all a government that is not corrupt in some way. What you guys are arguing about is a matter of degrees.

Hapday wrote:

BSmack wrote:

Hapday wrote: No.

Then you need to show us all a government that is not corrupt in some way. What you guys are arguing about is a matter of degrees.

Well in Canada we seem to keep corrupt governments in power because too many people up here fear change. ALL parties up here are corrupt because once they are in, and as long as Canadians aren't directly affected, voters don't care about scandals. They only boot parties out when the economy goes south and they want someone to blame. Not exactly a great message to send political parties.

Otis Wrote:
There's a real easy way to accomplish this.. in the next election instead of voting for the incumbent candidate, vote for one that has never been elected before.

Eyes red from crying, Jodie Wilson, a 28-year-old police officer, gave up on her dream of seeing Martha Stewart up close.

mvscal wrote:Nice "Energy" Minister you got there.

Pathetic Canadian twits.

Ont. coal-burning plants advocates 'Neanderthals': Duncan

By STEVE ERWIN
TORONTO (CP) - Ontario has no plans to listen to "Neanderthals" who want the province to keep its coal-burning power plants operating, even if that's what a report being prepared for the government recommends, says Energy Minister Dwight Duncan.

Duncan offered an emphatic "no" when asked whether he'd be willing to revisit the Liberal government's promise to stop burning coal for electricity even if the Ontario Power Authority calls for exactly that in a report expected in December.

"We are moving to close the coal plants, period, full stop," Duncan said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

More than 80 per cent of the province's power generation needs to be rebuilt or replaced over the next 20 years. The OPA has been meeting with energy industry stakeholders to determine what sources of new power generation the province should invest in.

Ontario is currently powered 49 per cent by nuclear reactors. Twenty-five per cent is supplied by hydro, 17 per cent by coal, seven per cent by gas and the remainder from wind and other alternative energy sources.

Duncan has said the government will agree to build new nuclear reactors should the OPA recommend it. But he says those lobbying the authority to recommend so-called cleaner coal technology and keeping the plants open are a century behind the times.

"I say to the Neanderthals . . . we're moving forward responsibly to ensure that we clean up our air," Duncan said.

"We're in the 21st century. They're in the 19th century."

Air pollution remains a key concern in Ontario. Fifty smog advisories have been issued for the province this year, including a rare October advisory issued last week.

"I am sick and tired of having smog days in October," he said. "We had a smog day in February. We've had smog days in Algonquin Park." He's also unimpressed with a report by Energy Probe, a national energy and environmental research group, which last week listed two Ontario coal-fired plants as being among the cleanest in North America.

"So we may have among some of the better of the worst forms of energy producers in North America. Who cares?" Duncan said. "We want to get rid of them. It's the equivalent of taking every vehicle, every car and every light truck off the road in this province."

Duncan's resistance to coal is a mistake, argues Energy Probe executive director Tom Adams.

Adams wants the province to keep at least two units at its Lambton station, south of Sarnia in southern Ontario, which rank fourth and ninth out of 403 in the report's list of the cleanest plants on the continent.

Adams argues that closing the units would end up requiring the province to import coal-fired power from the United States, which would "exacerbate adverse environmental and human health impacts to Ontarians." Adams said some of the dirtiest coal-fired generators are in American states neighbouring Ontario: the Picway and Richard Gorsuch stations in Ohio and the AES Greenridge station in New York.

According to Power Workers' Union president Don Mackinnon, the province can refurbish its coal plants with "the latest and greatest" clean technology for $3.3 billion. Mackinnon says that's $1.8 billion cheaper than it would cost to replace coal plants with natural gas.

"We're trying to convince the OPA and the government to rethink this," says Mackinnon, whose union represents some 1,200 coal plant workers in Ontario.

"I'm hoping the OPA will keep the door open on it. But in the end, all they can do is make a recommendation. The minister has the power to issue a directive with regards to the supply mix."

The David Suzuki Foundation has maintained renewable energy, such as wind, biomass, solar and geothermal sources, can replace the power that will be lost by shutting down coal plants.

"Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the direction that the Ontario government is taking," said Dale Marshall, the foundation's climate change policy analyst.

Marshall said he believes the province has pre-determined it will look to more nuclear power to address future supply concerns.

He said that's a multibillion-dollar mistake that will raise further environmental debates about the storage of nuclear waste.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005 ... 91-cp.html

mvscal wrote:Nice "Energy" Minister you got there.

Pathetic Canadian twits.

Ont. coal-burning plants advocates 'Neanderthals': Duncan

By STEVE ERWIN
TORONTO (CP) - Ontario has no plans to listen to "Neanderthals" who want the province to keep its coal-burning power plants operating, even if that's what a report being prepared for the government recommends, says Energy Minister Dwight Duncan.

Duncan offered an emphatic "no" when asked whether he'd be willing to revisit the Liberal government's promise to stop burning coal for electricity even if the Ontario Power Authority calls for exactly that in a report expected in December.

"We are moving to close the coal plants, period, full stop," Duncan said in an interview with The Canadian Press.

More than 80 per cent of the province's power generation needs to be rebuilt or replaced over the next 20 years. The OPA has been meeting with energy industry stakeholders to determine what sources of new power generation the province should invest in.

Ontario is currently powered 49 per cent by nuclear reactors. Twenty-five per cent is supplied by hydro, 17 per cent by coal, seven per cent by gas and the remainder from wind and other alternative energy sources.

Duncan has said the government will agree to build new nuclear reactors should the OPA recommend it. But he says those lobbying the authority to recommend so-called cleaner coal technology and keeping the plants open are a century behind the times.

"I say to the Neanderthals . . . we're moving forward responsibly to ensure that we clean up our air," Duncan said.

"We're in the 21st century. They're in the 19th century."

Air pollution remains a key concern in Ontario. Fifty smog advisories have been issued for the province this year, including a rare October advisory issued last week.

"I am sick and tired of having smog days in October," he said. "We had a smog day in February. We've had smog days in Algonquin Park." He's also unimpressed with a report by Energy Probe, a national energy and environmental research group, which last week listed two Ontario coal-fired plants as being among the cleanest in North America.

"So we may have among some of the better of the worst forms of energy producers in North America. Who cares?" Duncan said. "We want to get rid of them. It's the equivalent of taking every vehicle, every car and every light truck off the road in this province."

Duncan's resistance to coal is a mistake, argues Energy Probe executive director Tom Adams.

Adams wants the province to keep at least two units at its Lambton station, south of Sarnia in southern Ontario, which rank fourth and ninth out of 403 in the report's list of the cleanest plants on the continent.

Adams argues that closing the units would end up requiring the province to import coal-fired power from the United States, which would "exacerbate adverse environmental and human health impacts to Ontarians." Adams said some of the dirtiest coal-fired generators are in American states neighbouring Ontario: the Picway and Richard Gorsuch stations in Ohio and the AES Greenridge station in New York.

According to Power Workers' Union president Don Mackinnon, the province can refurbish its coal plants with "the latest and greatest" clean technology for $3.3 billion. Mackinnon says that's $1.8 billion cheaper than it would cost to replace coal plants with natural gas.

"We're trying to convince the OPA and the government to rethink this," says Mackinnon, whose union represents some 1,200 coal plant workers in Ontario.

"I'm hoping the OPA will keep the door open on it. But in the end, all they can do is make a recommendation. The minister has the power to issue a directive with regards to the supply mix."

The David Suzuki Foundation has maintained renewable energy, such as wind, biomass, solar and geothermal sources, can replace the power that will be lost by shutting down coal plants.

"Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be the direction that the Ontario government is taking," said Dale Marshall, the foundation's climate change policy analyst.

Marshall said he believes the province has pre-determined it will look to more nuclear power to address future supply concerns.

He said that's a multibillion-dollar mistake that will raise further environmental debates about the storage of nuclear waste.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2005 ... 91-cp.html

Sorbara resigns amid RCMP biz probe

October 12, 2005

By GILLIAN LIVINGSTON, CP

TORONTO -- Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty's government was dealt a devastating blow late yesterday as Finance Minister Greg Sorbara resigned just hours after he was named in a warrant as part of an ongoing RCMP investigation.

Police raided Sorbara's family's real estate development company, the Sorbara Group, amid a criminal investigation into Royal Group Technologies, a company where Sorbara had been a director.

"A devastating mistake has been made," an ashen-faced Sorbara said at a hastily called late-night news conference. "I want to tell you that I intend to get to the bottom of that."

Sorbara, McGuinty's right-hand man, is the first cabinet minister in McGuinty's cabinet to resign. He has been under a cloud since police began investigating Royal Group Technologies in February 2004.

'NOT A HAPPY OCCASION'

McGuinty said Sorbara agreed when this issue first came to light that he would step aside if he became the subject of an investigation, which was revealed in the search warrant issued yesterday.

"He's done the right thing under the circumstances," McGuinty said. "If he's cleared, he will be returned to cabinet ... It was not a happy occasion."

Sorbara's resignation comes at a sensitive time for the government: The day before it delivers the throne speech heralding the start of the second half of its mandate.

Sorbara said he stepped aside because of the search warrant that alleges he's the subject of an RCMP investigation into dealings between Royal Group and the Sorbara Group. He had previously been a director at both companies.

"While I have no idea as to what the allegations are, or the facts on which they are based, my responsibility as a minister is to step aside pending a determination of the matters alleged in the warrant," he said.

Sorbara, who also resigned his post as chair of Management Board of Cabinet, said he was "dumbfounded" by the allegations.

RCMP spokeswoman Michelle Paradis said the information leading to the warrant is sealed, and she could not provide further details on the search because the investigation is ongoing.

McGuinty moved quickly to restore stability to his cabinet, naming Dwight Duncan, formerly energy minister, as finance minister and chair of Management Board.

Donna Cansfield, Duncan's parliamentary assistant, takes over as energy minister.

Earlier yesterday, both the New Democrats and Tories demanded McGuinty request Sorbara's resignation because he was named in the search warrant.

Hapday wrote:
At least he isn't a crook like the rest of the gLiberals:

Sorbara resigns amid RCMP biz probe

October 12, 2005

By GILLIAN LIVINGSTON, CP

TORONTO -- Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty's government was dealt a devastating blow late yesterday as Finance Minister Greg Sorbara resigned just hours after he was named in a warrant as part of an ongoing RCMP investigation.

Police raided Sorbara's family's real estate development company, the Sorbara Group, amid a criminal investigation into Royal Group Technologies, a company where Sorbara had been a director.

"A devastating mistake has been made," an ashen-faced Sorbara said at a hastily called late-night news conference. "I want to tell you that I intend to get to the bottom of that."

Sorbara, McGuinty's right-hand man, is the first cabinet minister in McGuinty's cabinet to resign. He has been under a cloud since police began investigating Royal Group Technologies in February 2004.

'NOT A HAPPY OCCASION'

McGuinty said Sorbara agreed when this issue first came to light that he would step aside if he became the subject of an investigation, which was revealed in the search warrant issued yesterday.

"He's done the right thing under the circumstances," McGuinty said. "If he's cleared, he will be returned to cabinet ... It was not a happy occasion."

Sorbara's resignation comes at a sensitive time for the government: The day before it delivers the throne speech heralding the start of the second half of its mandate.

Sorbara said he stepped aside because of the search warrant that alleges he's the subject of an RCMP investigation into dealings between Royal Group and the Sorbara Group. He had previously been a director at both companies.

"While I have no idea as to what the allegations are, or the facts on which they are based, my responsibility as a minister is to step aside pending a determination of the matters alleged in the warrant," he said.

Sorbara, who also resigned his post as chair of Management Board of Cabinet, said he was "dumbfounded" by the allegations.

RCMP spokeswoman Michelle Paradis said the information leading to the warrant is sealed, and she could not provide further details on the search because the investigation is ongoing.

McGuinty moved quickly to restore stability to his cabinet, naming Dwight Duncan, formerly energy minister, as finance minister and chair of Management Board.

Donna Cansfield, Duncan's parliamentary assistant, takes over as energy minister.

Earlier yesterday, both the New Democrats and Tories demanded McGuinty request Sorbara's resignation because he was named in the search warrant.

By CHRISTINA BLIZZARD




Dalton McGuinty's Liberal government suffered a crippling blow last night with the resignation of its most senior and powerful minister.

Greg Sorbara stepped aside as finance minister pending the outcome of an RCMP probe into allegations concerning Royal Group Technologies Ltd. and the Sorbara Group. Before he entered cabinet two years ago, Sorbara was a director for both firms and at one time was chairman of the audit committee of Royal Group

"I feel dumbfounded," he told reporters at a hastily called news conference late last night.

"I have no idea where these allegations come from," he said. Sorbara said he was "mostly confused," because he hadn't been contacted by the RCMP and the documents related to the investigation are sealed.

"I intend to get to the bottom of this. A terrible mistake has been made," he said.

Premier Dalton McGuinty met with reporters to announce that Energy Minister Dwight Duncan would fill Sorbara's shoes in finance and as chairman of the management board, while Etobicoke backbencher Donna Cansfield moves into Duncan's old job in energy. This is a powerful new role for Duncan, and a fitting reward for wrestling the energy beast to the ground over the past two years. Tourism Minister Jim Bradley takes over responsibility for seniors.

"It's obviously not the kind of thing that you hope for in government," a sheepish McGuinty said last night. "But it has happened. Our responsibility now is to move forward."

Clearly, though, this is a big embarrassment for the government. The issue first surfaced at the end of 2003, and there were calls for Sorbara to resign at that time while the investigation was under way.

You can't help thinking he might have saved his government a major headache if he hadn't done so at that time.

In 2004, the integrity commissioner cleared Sorbara of allegations he had stalled too long in informing McGuinty about the police probe into Royal Group.

Mounties raided the offices of the Sorbara Group yesterday, looking for information in an ongoing investigation into Royal Group Technologies Ltd. Four warrants were exercised in the raids, in Woodbridge and Toronto.

Yesterday afternoon, Opposition Leader John Tory claimed to have seen copies of search warrants naming Sorbara as part of an investigation.

Sorbara said last night he is baffled by the probe into a land deal between the Sorbara Group and Royal. He told reporters he had played no part in the deal and had no idea even of the location of the property that was involved in the transaction.

The timing couldn't have been worse for the Liberals. They will deliver their second Throne Speech this afternoon. It's expected to showcase their achievements and set out their agenda for the second part of their mandate.

Look, I've always had a great deal of respect for Sorbara. He's smart, highly personable and has a lot of integrity. It may have taken him a while to do it, but he did the right thing last night in putting his party -- and his government -- ahead of his own personal ambitions.

It's never easy for a minister to step aside. In the end, though, Sorbara's fate was sealed by McGuinty's own words in March 2004, when he pledged that his minister would step aside if he became the subject of a police probe.

It was Tory who reminded Sorbara of those words yesterday. Back then, McGuinty said he would ask the minister to resign if he became the subject of an investigation, even if no charges were laid.

Those words came back to haunt them last night.

Say one thing for Sorbara, he showed a lot of class in bowing out with elegance and grace.

Isn't that all you really ask of any politician?

Hapday wrote:People who voted for these criminals should be proud.

mvscal wrote:

Otis wrote: Get your head out of the 19th century dipshit and into today's envionmental reality.
We're moving ahead... try and keep up will you.

A liberal dumbfuck talking about reality.

I laughed.

Coal is your future, moron.

mv wrote:
Pathetic Canadian twits.

Otis wrote:
Guilty until proven innocent eh Hap?

mvscal wrote:

Otis wrote:Still living in the past?

That would be you.

Modern technology has cleaned up the emissions of coal power plants and gasoline derived from coal liquefaction is what you are going to be putting in your gas tank for next couple centuries.

I suggest you get used to the idea.

Thu, October 13, 2005
Air record stinks
U.S. smoking Canada on pollution reduction: Watchdog


By MARIA McCLINTOCK, Parliamentary Bureau

The U.S. has managed to reduce its air pollution by 45% compared to Canada's 1.8% between 1995 and 2003 despite a number of national initiatives, according to an annual pollution report card.

Pollution Watch's report, based on information provided by Environment Canada, also lists the so-called Dirty Dozen Canadian firms that are ranked the worst offenders when it comes to polluting the air.

"Often Canada compares itself favourably to the United States ... frankly this optimism is misplaced when it comes to pollution," said Rick Smith, executive director of group Environmental Defence.

"Between 1995 and 2002 the United States reduced its air pollution emissions by 45% -- this is according to the Commission for Environmental Co-operation under NAFTA. Over the same time period, Canada reduced its air pollution by an embarrassing 1.8%"

The findings of the report were quickly shot down by Environment Minister Stephane Dion who said Pollution Watch was not comparing apples to apples in its analysis.

"What is clear we have a decrease of 2% if you compare apples with apples. It's not a catastrophe but it's not enough ... we need to improve our record," Dion told Sun Media.

maria.mcclintock@tor.sunpub.com

THE DIRTY DOZEN

The following Canadian companies have been dubbed the Dirty Dozen by Pollution Watch for contributing an estimated 46% of air pollution:

1) Inco Ltd. (Ontario)

2) Alcan Inc. (Quebec)

3) Ontario Power Generation

4) Nova Scotia Power Inc.

5) Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting Co. (Manitoba)

6) SaskPower (Saskatchewan)

7) Syncrude Canada (Alberta)

Transalta Utilities Corp. (Alberta)

9) New Bruswick Power Corp.

10) Noranda Inc. (Ontario)

11) Aluminerie de Becancour Inc. (Quebec)

12) EnCana Corp. (Alberta)

Hapday wrote:

mvscal wrote:

Otis wrote:Still living in the past?

That would be you.

Modern technology has cleaned up the emissions of coal power plants and gasoline derived from coal liquefaction is what you are going to be putting in your gas tank for next couple centuries.

I suggest you get used to the idea.

The gLiberals would rather save face and keep the left wing nut case environmentalists vote, instead of actual solutions to our energy problems...

It is pretty obvious the gLiberals care so much about the environment...

Thu, October 13, 2005
Air record stinks
U.S. smoking Canada on pollution reduction: Watchdog


By MARIA McCLINTOCK, Parliamentary Bureau

The U.S. has managed to reduce its air pollution by 45% compared to Canada's 1.8% between 1995 and 2003 despite a number of national initiatives, according to an annual pollution report card.

Pollution Watch's report, based on information provided by Environment Canada, also lists the so-called Dirty Dozen Canadian firms that are ranked the worst offenders when it comes to polluting the air.

"Often Canada compares itself favourably to the United States ... frankly this optimism is misplaced when it comes to pollution," said Rick Smith, executive director of group Environmental Defence.

"Between 1995 and 2002 the United States reduced its air pollution emissions by 45% -- this is according to the Commission for Environmental Co-operation under NAFTA. Over the same time period, Canada reduced its air pollution by an embarrassing 1.8%"

The findings of the report were quickly shot down by Environment Minister Stephane Dion who said Pollution Watch was not comparing apples to apples in its analysis.

"What is clear we have a decrease of 2% if you compare apples with apples. It's not a catastrophe but it's not enough ... we need to improve our record," Dion told Sun Media.

maria.mcclintock@tor.sunpub.com

THE DIRTY DOZEN

The following Canadian companies have been dubbed the Dirty Dozen by Pollution Watch for contributing an estimated 46% of air pollution:

1) Inco Ltd. (Ontario)

2) Alcan Inc. (Quebec)

3) Ontario Power Generation

4) Nova Scotia Power Inc.

5) Hudson Bay Mining and Smelting Co. (Manitoba)

6) SaskPower (Saskatchewan)

7) Syncrude Canada (Alberta)

Transalta Utilities Corp. (Alberta)

9) New Bruswick Power Corp.

10) Noranda Inc. (Ontario)

11) Aluminerie de Becancour Inc. (Quebec)

12) EnCana Corp. (Alberta)

mvscal wrote:Modern technology has cleaned up the emissions of coal power plants and gasoline derived from coal liquefaction is what you are going to be putting in your gas tank for next couple centuries.

Otis wrote:
Let's have a closer look at that right wing math there Hap..

If the U.S. reduces it's pollution rate from 100 by 45% it's still spewing out 55
When Canada reduces it's pollution rate from 40 by 2% it's only spewing out 39.2

Try comparing apples to apples mmkay?

Hapday wrote:

Otis wrote:
Let's have a closer look at that right wing math there Hap..

If the U.S. reduces it's pollution rate from 100 by 45% it's still spewing out 55
When Canada reduces it's pollution rate from 40 by 2% it's only spewing out 39.2

Try comparing apples to apples mmkay?

OK Otis. Three days and that's your spin? How many glasses of the koolaid did that take?

That article was rather short, didn't say much except the US is cleaning up their air polution faster than we are. Could it be they need to play a little game of catch up?

You know like your neighbor has a misquito killing car and finally changes the muffles system, front to back, mean while you change your cadiladic converter. He would have reduced a larger percent of his total pollution than you, but doesn't mean he is producing less than you now.


http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/8Comparison.htm

Carbon dioxide released per person per year:

United States 5.8 tons
Canada 4.8
Germany 3.2
United Kingdom 2.9
Japan 2.2
OECD Europe 1.8

Total Carbon Monoxide emitted annually:

United States 60,900 tons
Canada 10,100
Germany 8,926
France 6,198
United Kingdom 5,264
Sweden 1,754
Netherlands 1,229
Norway 649
Switzerland 621

Total chlorofluorocarbons emitted annually:

United States 332 million tons
Japan 95
Germany 71
United Kingdom 67
Canada 34
Netherlands 17
Switzerland 10
Denmark 6
Finland 6
Sweden 4
Norway 1

This was done in 1992 by an America research team, that's close enough to the time your study starts. Now lets apply your reductions to any of these figures.

US 5.8 tons minus 45% (2.61) equals 3.19
canada 4.8 tons minus 1.8% (.0864) equals 4.7136
Well they would have us there, let's try another one k kids.

US 60,900 tons minus 45% (27405) = 33,495 tons
Canada 10,100 tons minus 1.8% (1818) = 8,282 tons
Now thats really interesting, isn't it kids., let's try one more

US 332 million tons minus 45% (149.4) = 182,600,000 tons
Canada 34 million tons minus 1.8% (.612) = 33,388,000 tons.

Now that we have some "real" figures to work with, I certainly don't see the united states setting a "shining" example.

I am glad they are working on cleaning up (frankly its about time) but until they pollute less than other countries and can post the figures to support those claims. well maybe they should just work on the problem m'kay.

Okay, PollutionWatch is an organization formed by Ontario"s CELA (Canadian Environmental Law Ass'n) and the national Environmental Defence. It has recently issued reports critical of Canada's air pollution cleanup efforts, but nowhere can I find any info about a big pollution reduction by the US.

One would think that if the US really has air pollution by the short and curly, the news would be trumpeted from the rooftops, not just a bit in a Conservative politician's speech.

As those figures posted above indicate, the US industrial/military machine remains the biggest single controllable factor in world air pollution.

Meanwhile, Canada has its DIRTY DOZEN--the corporations who continue to belch out crap into our air, protected by big biz lobbying, bribing and bullying. These include Inco, Alcan, Syncrude, Hudson Bay Mining, Noranda... Until we have a government that stops the footsie games of campaign donations and old boy networking (a jot of integrity would be nice) we will continue to be poisoned by our bigshots

Hapday wrote:Otis try and keep up here. M'kay? The 'plan' with Kyoto is supposedly to try and cut Greenhouse gas emission (worldwide) by 5.2%. The U.S. has cut theirs by 45% without this Accord. Why should they sign again?

"Under the Protocol, the U.S. is supposed to cut its greenhouse gas emissions by seven percent. With four percent of the world's population, the country accounts for about 25 percent of the Earth's greenhouse gas emissions.

Hapday wrote:The fact you believe Martin is completely innocent explains just how horribly fucked up our educational institutions are.

Otis wrote:

Hapday wrote:The fact you believe Martin is completely innocent explains just how horribly fucked up our educational institutions are.

Riiiiight.

Hapday wrote:

Otis wrote:

Hapday wrote:The fact you believe Martin is completely innocent explains just how horribly fucked up our educational institutions are.

Riiiiight.

Yup, Martin's innocent. Nothing to see here, move along...

The study released yesterday by the Fraser Institute, a conservative think tank, reviews famous atrocities against taxpayers as documented in the past 14 years of reports by the auditor general.

Hapday wrote:Why does China get a free pass in all of this Kyoto bullshit?

Otis wrote:

Otis wrote:

Hapday wrote:Why does China get a free pass in all of this Kyoto bullshit?

Deflecting much? :roll:
China currently doesn't have to – they're considered a developing country and are outside the protocol's framework
That will change.