T1B

Cicero wrote:Leinart loses no promise b/c he still should win the Heisman. I think the reason he is 2nd or 3rd right now is b/c people feel he already has one. Simliar to Jason White the year before. Yeah leinart has studs around him, but w/ out him USC doesnt win 32 in a row. Bush has been non-existent the past couple of weeks and they still have blown everybody out.

What about the games where Leinart was non-existant and it was Bush that made the difference? Fact is both players feed off each other. The presents of Bush has made Leinarts job much easier and the presents of Leinart has made Bush's job much easier.

Vince is the best player because he does the same thing by himself. Sometimes his legs opens up the passing game and sometimes the passing game opens up the running game. Ohio State was so worried about stopping Vince from running with the ball that he passed for over 300+ yards. In the Okie State game when the passing game was ineffective it was his legs that opened things up.

Vince should win because he has a will to win and leadership abilities previously found only in Michael Jordan and Joe Montana.

C'mon people, Vince proved this in a meaningless mid season college game against overmatched Okie State!

Idiots!! It's a flippin' fact! Gosh!!

Van wrote:Vince should win because he has a will to win and leadership abilities previously found only in Michael Jordan and Joe Montana.

C'mon people, Vince proved this in a meaningless mid season college game against overmatched Okie State!

Idiots!! It's a flippin' fact! Gosh!!

Hey dumbass there are two OSU on our schedule this year the other was OHIO STATE which is the OSU I refered to when I posted that.

Like I said, talking football with you is like talking football with my wife only she knows more about the game than you and she gives me some.

First, I must apologize to Mr. Bush. I have had him 3rd on my Heisman list the past couple of weeks.

1 Bush
2 Young
3 Leinart

Bush.

It's over.

Short of Reggie getting caught on tape doing blow and having sex with a line judge during the UCLA game it's now a done deal.

No way anybody in their right voting mind doesn't think this race ended last night.

Van wrote:Bush.

It's over.

Short of Reggie getting caught on tape doing blow and having sex with a line judge during the UCLA game it's now a done deal.

Stranger things have happened.....

Bush leaps ahead of Leinart but I can't put him over Young. Troy Smith has to enter the discussion after his clutch performance in Ann Arbor but I don't know whom out of Quinn and Robinson I should take out of my top 5...

New list:
1. Young
2. Bush
3. Leinart
4. Robinson
5. Quinn
6. T. Smith

They only need to invite 3. Quinn and Robinson have had great seasons but everyone knows they arent going to win and it will save me from watching the Gameday Crew interview their moms and showing some highlight footage and acting like they have a shot to win.

what about Drew Stanton? Wasn't he all everything? Then of course there is Tate and Hinkel making a late push...


After Bush had the monster game on Saturday I will put my list as this...

1 TIE Bush and Young...take Young off of Texas and they have maybe 2 or 3 losses, take Bush off USC and you still have Linehert, White, Jarrett, etc...

3 Linehert
4 Quinn
5 DeAngelo Williams
6 Troy Smith - good call Shoalzie but maybe next year for TS...


anyway carry on...

I will be surprised if Young doesn't win it.

Jimmy Medalions wrote:I will be surprised if Young doesn't win it.

Even if Bush goes off again against UCLA? Considering it's UCLA, and it's in the Coliseum, and it's for all the marbles, the notion of Reggie going off on 'em again ain't exactly the most far fetched of scenarios, ya' know...

Van wrote:

Jimmy Medalions wrote:I will be surprised if Young doesn't win it.

Even if Bush goes off again against UCLA? Considering it's UCLA, and it's in the Coliseum, and it's for all the marbles, the notion of Reggie going off on 'em again ain't exactly the most far fetched of scenarios, ya' know...

What you meant to say was "considering it's UCLA's rush defense", right? You thought Reggie tore up Fresneck, wait till you see what he does to the Bruins. I can conceivably see him busting 200 yards again. Seriously.

My list.


1. Young
1A. Bush
3-5. Doesn't matter anymore

The only person who has a shot at taking it from Young is Bush and vice versa.

Good late season showings by Vick, Robinson and Smith. That Troy Smith is a fun player to watch. Same goes for Robinson. Amazing they had that guy at TB and WR(?) before sticking him behind center.

I want to put Bush as a clearcut 1, but I can't just stick him on top over Young because of 1 game. If he goes "Fresneck" on UCLA, then he will pretty much solidify it regardless of what Young does against A&M.

buckeye_in_sc wrote:what about Drew Stanton? Wasn't he all everything?

He's got great numbers but he gets killed for playing on a team that fell on its face down the stretch. I'm curious to see what he does, come back for his senior year or leave early? I wonder if Smith's future will determine what he does. He's a helluva player but too bad he's stuck playing with that joke of a program.

Roofer wrote:

Van wrote:

Jimmy Medalions wrote:I will be surprised if Young doesn't win it.

Even if Bush goes off again against UCLA? Considering it's UCLA, and it's in the Coliseum, and it's for all the marbles, the notion of Reggie going off on 'em again ain't exactly the most far fetched of scenarios, ya' know...

What you meant to say was "considering it's UCLA's rush defense", right? You thought Reggie tore up Fresneck, wait till you see what he does to the Bruins. I can conceivably see him busting 300 yards. Seriously.

My list.


1. Young
1A. Bush
3-5. Doesn't matter anymore

The only person who has a shot at taking it from Young is Bush and vice versa.

Good late season showings by Vick, Robinson and Smith. That Troy Smith is a fun player to watch. Same goes for Robinson. Amazing they had that guy at TB and WR(?) before sticking him behind center.

I want to put Bush as a clearcut 1, but I can't just stick him on top over Young because of 1 game. If he goes "Fresneck" on UCLA, then he will pretty much solidify it regardless of what Young does against A&M.

FTFY-NC

Bush will wrap it up by getting a zillion yards and a few more highlight TDs against USC's longtime rival on national TV. Reggie will lead the ESPN highlight packages that night and it'll be ovah.

After today's Texas/Texas A&M game in which Vince Young again looked fairly inept as a QB is there any doubt left that short of an utter debacle against UCLA the Heisman race is now over and Reggie Bush is the winner?

Forget starting in the NFL, Vince Young wouldn't even start for USC.

Reggie freaking Bush? Vince Young isn't even in that galaxy. Long after Vince Young has disappeared into the midsts of CFL anonymity Reggie Bush will still be making his annual February sojourn to Honolulu...

13-24 162 yards and 3 turnovers and this cocksuckers coach can say that he is the best QB in college football with a straight face? I spit beer all over my new couch when I heard that. Its not like he was playing vs the best defense in the nation aTm's defense is ranked 109th. Anyone else want to change their Hypeman vote, Young isnt even in the top 3.
Oh well hes a dual threat... 11 rushes, 19 yards, maybe dual threat means he throws interceptions and fumbles the ball

Same goes for Robinson. Amazing they had that guy at TB and WR(?) before sticking him behind center.

He was behind Zack Mills at QB. In 2003 and 2004, Robinson played some at QB, but he looked as bad or worse than Mills, due to the ineptness of the surrounding team.

Robinson's had a hell of a year, and he's led the team very well. His experience at WR was very crucial, because he mentored the freshmen WRs when they got on campus - and they were the difference makers this year along with him.

SoCalTrjn wrote:Young isnt even in the top 3.

You've just eliminated yourself from the credibility pool with that post, asshat.

Gee the poor dude had 1 bad game all year and now he shouldn't even get an invite? He could not have picked a worse stage to look so bad, but he award is for the entire season. I probalbly concur that Bush is the leading candidate but no one in their right mind can discount the kind of player VY is.

Rack Fu wrote:

SoCalTrjn wrote:Young isnt even in the top 3.

You've just eliminated yourself from the credibility pool with that post, asshat.

Mack Brown has any kind of credibility when he says that they need a Heisman for QB and another for RB so VY and Bush could both win Heismans.

Id have Leinart as the #1 QB, Quinn as #2 and Drew Olsen as #3, VY might be the 4th best QB in college football, to say he is the best QB in college football is laughable

SoCalTrjn wrote:

Rack Fu wrote:

SoCalTrjn wrote:Young isnt even in the top 3.

You've just eliminated yourself from the credibility pool with that post, asshat.

Mack Brown has any kind of credibility when he says that they need a Heisman for QB and another for RB so VY and Bush could both win Heismans.

Id have Leinart as the #1 QB, Quinn as #2 and Drew Olsen as #3, VY might be the 4th best QB in college football, to say he is the best QB in college football is laughable

:?

In terms of overall productivity/winning I guess I'd have to place VY behind only Leinart as a QB but in terms of who's the better QB yeah, I'd agree with SoCalTrjn that bare minimum VY is behind Leinart, Quinn and Olsen.

VY has just been on a much more dominant team than Quinn or Olsen so he's won more games. He's really not very good though as a QB and depending on who comes out and when they come out VY won't be among the first QBs taken in the draft...

After seeing Young put up less than stellar numbers against a bad defense and seeing Bush put up 500 total yards against Fresno, it's hard to keep Young as my #1. I don't think you can convince me that anyone other than Bush, Leinart, and Young should be included in the top 3. It's pretty much a 3-way tie for 4th with Quinn, Robinson, and Troy Smith.

Agreed it is now and has been a three horse race for quite a while now but I just don't think somebody's naked vision should be discounted and anybody who's really watching each player can see that VY is no Heisman QB. He's merely the fortunate sod who gets to be the signal caller/playmaker for a dominant Texas team that simply overmatches nearly every opponent they play. Not only is he not very good as a QB but he isn't even all that effective as a QB, not compared to some other QBs out there.

Stick a better thrower/decision maker in the QB slot at Texas and they don't look so amateurish at times on offense, the way they did against Okie State and A&M.

Your eyes should also make it plainly obvious that Matt Leinart is the best QB in America and Reggie Bush is the best skill position player in America, period. VY isn't even remotely on Reggie's level as a talent/player...

Van wrote:He's merely the fortunate sod who gets to be the signal caller/playmaker for a dominant Texas team that simply overmatches nearly every opponent they play. Not only is he not very good as a QB but he isn't even all that effective as a QB, not compared to some other QBs out there.

Texas isn't trotting out All-American talent on offense like USC is. For one thing, Young leads Texas in rushing...this is the same school that has given us Earl Campbell, Ricky Williams, Priest Holmes and Cedric Benson. You know Texas doesn't have a stud back when the QB leads the team in rushing. USC has Bush and White...end of discussion. At receiver, Jarrett and Smith vs. Pittman and Thomas isn't even close. Bush is just as good of a receiver as any of the guys on Texas. Young is getting a lot out of what Texas has. He doesn't have Roy Williams to throw to or Cedric Benson to hand the ball to. He's had to lead the way and he's got them at 11-0 and a possible national title and he's got a higher passer rating than Leinart, Quinn and Troy Smith.

Stick a better thrower/decision maker in the QB slot at Texas and they don't look so amateurish at times on offense, the way they did against Okie State and A&M.

A guy like Leinart could make any team better...no one would argue that. In all honesty, if you switched Young and Leinart, I think you'd still have both teams undefeated. Bush is just as important to USC as Leinart this season. Any QB giving him the ball would look like a stud...not to discount Leinart at all. Bush would make up for any shortcomings Young would have. That's probably the main reason I'd say Bush is the Heisman choice right now.

Shoalzie wrote:

Van wrote:He's merely the fortunate sod who gets to be the signal caller/playmaker for a dominant Texas team that simply overmatches nearly every opponent they play. Not only is he not very good as a QB but he isn't even all that effective as a QB, not compared to some other QBs out there.

Texas isn't trotting out All-American talent on offense like USC is.

Their offensive line is dominant and Texas isn't exactly lining up against All-American talent on defense each weak in the Big XII...

VY is simply able to deek and run, either one, mostly unmolested.

For one thing, Young leads Texas in rushing...this is the same school that has given us Earl Campbell, Ricky Williams, Priest Holmes and Cedric Benson. You know Texas doesn't have a stud back when the QB leads the team in rushing.

But, but...wait! When I make this point to Vito that Texas had a better offense last year because of Benson Vito always comes back with, "Nah, they're better off this year without Benson. His replacement's just as good and Texas' receivers have really stepped it up and now VY can flourish..."

Myself, I agree with you. VY is simply dominating the ball because he can dominate the ball against such weak competition and he's dominating the ball because Texas doesn't have much in the way of weapons otherwise...

USC has Bush and White...end of discussion. At receiver, Jarrett and Smith vs. Pittman and Thomas isn't even close. Bush is just as good of a receiver as any of the guys on Texas.

All true. These are just some of the reasons I'm not at all worried about beating Texas if we get that far. My only worry is SC's injury ravaged defense but I'm hoping that the two weeks leading into the UCLA game followed by the four weeks leading up to the Texas game will give us a chance to heal up a bit and maybe get some of our guys back...

Texas simply won't be able to stop or even slow down SC's offense.

Young is getting a lot out of what Texas has.

Namely, a great line and with the exception of OSU a lot of physically overmatched opponents, yep.

He doesn't have Roy Williams to throw to or Cedric Benson to hand the ball to. He's had to lead the way and he's got them at 11-0

In a couple of cases though he didn't so much "lead the way" as Texas overcame his shoddy performances and won anyway in spite of him.

To throw in a wrinkle...

I'm not so sure Leinart should be invited to NY. He sure came up big at South Bend; but the guy already won the gear, and there is a plethora of deserving candidates. I don't think Leinart has presented a very compelling argument for the invite this year.

Maybe, but if that's the case then lets just cut the charade completely and only invite Bush and Young since the rest are just window dressing anyway this season...

PSUFAN wrote:To throw in a wrinkle...

I'm not so sure Leinart should be invited to NY. He sure came up big at South Bend; but the guy already won the gear, and there is a plethora of deserving candidates. I don't think Leinart has presented a very compelling argument for the invite this year.

Have to disagree.

Comp % 66.3 - Yards 3,217 TD/INT 24-7, Plus 6 rushing TDs.

He has done more than enough. Throw in a possible 300yd 3 TD day and his numbers are good enough. Will he win? No, but he deserves to be there.

1 Bush
2 Young
3 Leinart

PSUFAN wrote:To throw in a wrinkle...

I'm not so sure Leinart should be invited to NY. He sure came up big at South Bend; but the guy already won the gear, and there is a plethora of deserving candidates. I don't think Leinart has presented a very compelling argument for the invite this year.

He really only came up big on the last drive, which is obviously when it matters the most. But he had a very average day. 0 td's and 2 Int's. Bush played great in all their close games. He should win, and likely will.

But to a point, I agree. I think there are better canidates, even at the QB position. But it also goes to how you define the Heisman. Is it the best player on the best team, the most valuable player, or just the best player in the country? I think you may have 2 or 3 different answers to those questions.

Exactly. Personally, I can see a number of QBs performing well at USC while surrounded by Bush, White, Jarrett, etc. However, I see USC as a 3 loss team without Bush.

Bush
Young
Leinart

Still no need for anymore, and seriously there's no need for a 3rd. It's a 2 horse race and Young stumbled a bit as they approach the wire.

2 games left. It's probably going to come down to whoever has the bigger game come Dec. 3rd.

Bush sealed the deal with his 500 yard day and Young having a below average day against a$m.

Each guy has one last game to make a final statement and the voters take over.

I don't give two shits what anyone says about Texas anymore. I'm extremely confident Texas will go back to the Rosebowl and own USC. I've stated my reasons already nothing more needs to be said on that.

And yes Texas is better without Benson this year because they now have two guys at TB who on any given play can take the ball for a TD.

Benson was a great RB between the tackles and was one who would ware down a defense but he never had the ability to break off the big runs like Charles and Taylor do.

Just watched the tape of the USC-UCLA game. Ya know, that Reggie Bush, he's pretty darn good.

:-)

Three different Heisman winners in four seasons, that's not too shabby either.

Bush (will win by more than a close vote but less than a runaway)
Young
.
.
.
.
Leinart
No one else matters

Leinart pulled it together in the second half today but man, that was the worst I've ever seen him look. He was overthrowing everybody in the first half...

Something the Right may never hear again......


Bush wins.