T1B

BSmack wrote: I'm thinking that Jerome John Garcia was also familiar with flamenco styles.

IMHO, you're just picking way too big a nit with Dins over the definition of the words "equally comfortable".

What Van doesn't know on the subject could fill volumes.

Van wrote:Dins, your ego runneth amok again.

Well I ain't often right, but I've never been wrong.

Dinsdale wrote:
Well I ain't often right, but I've never been wrong.

Seldom turns out the way it does in a song.

Dinsdale wrote: Well I ain't often right, but I've never been wrong.

Tom In VA wrote:

Dinsdale wrote:
Well I ain't often right, but I've never been wrong.

Seldom turns out the way it does in a song.

Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.

I've moved on from SB.

The Whistle Is Screaming wrote:

Now, these two are dancing to the sweet refrains of --

Small wheel turn by the fire and rod
Big wheel turn by the grace of God
Everytime that wheel turn round
bound to cover just a little more ground


^^^^ First performed at the old Paramount Theater in Portland, OR-btw.



Might just have to get my groove on to Jerry all day long...just to spite Vannar and his IM buddy(strictly hetero, of course...:rolleyes:).

Dins, your mea culpas completely suck ass, but as niggardly as you are with 'em I guess I'll have to take what I can get...

Seriously though, the guy almost never plays pentatonic. It's hard work for him to stay within it even when he does blues clinics. You can literally hear him fighting to stay within the constraints of blues pentatonic boxes...

Knowing that you know more about guitar than most people here, yeah, that one shocked me, coming from you.

I thought Yngwie's antics dring G3 were completely laughable. Embarrassing, even, especially at the weight he was carrying.

His playing though, it was as remarkable as always. Yeah, it sounds repetitive at times, but that's mostly down to his volume and consistent level of aggression. He doesn't often slow down and use a lot of dynamics, which I'd much prefer. When he does, he sounds awesome.

Nonetheless, most everything he plays is complicated as hell and it's definitely not all the same.

B, I'm familiar with flamenco styles too. I'm also "faster" than Jerry Garcia ever was on a guitar, though Jerry is infinitely better than I'll ever be. Regardless, no, neither I nor Jerry nor anyone else could ever hope to pick up Paco De Lucia's style and instantly become comfortable playing it at such an extraordinary level of expertise.

It takes a lifetime, even for the most single minded purist. There's no way some interloper could walk in and instantly pick up that style and become as comfortable in it as they are with the stuff they've been playing their whole life.

It doesn't work that way. Entirely different disciplines, and there's no way to serve each master equally and still hope to get anywhere with 'em.

THAT was Dins' point, and it's absurd.

Van , on the subject of Satriani wrote:Drummer says he sucks.

I'm not saying he sucks , but that he isn't very compelling in a musical sense .

But that's JMO , drawing from listening to players most of my life , like :

Jeff Beck

Bill Connors

Calos Santana

John McGlaughlin

The Immortal Allan Holdsworth

Al DiMeola

EVH

Randy Rhodes

David Lindley

Lee Ritenour

Jimmy Page

The Scorpions ( because you have to admire the great guitar playing from Ulrich Roth , Rudolf Schenker , and Micheal Schenker , as well as Micheal's solo efforts )

The Allman Bros.

Etc , etc ,

My collection of vinyl and CD's doesn't have any Satriani in it , mostly because , although Satch's playing is great , it's musically , and more important to me , rhythmically stale .

But , if and when I want to stomp my double bass drums to an uptempo " Yeah , Yeah " boogie beat , I'll just refer to what Steve Morse , Jeff Beck , and Billy Cobham ( with Marc Bolan did on 'Quadrant 4' ) has done .

Van...you still don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You've obviously also never heard JGB.

But, it's interesting to note your attitude. "I'm faster than Jerry."

In your wet dreams.

How old are you, anyway? 40-something. Well, props for still failing to realize what some of us did around the time of puberty -- that just because you can play fast, it doesn't necessarily mean you should play fast. I guess coming from a more classical/symphonic background was a blessing I should be thankful of. A lot of "shredders" completely forget the most basic premise of Western Music -- that every short note leads to a long one. Short notes by themselves are meaningless, and have no melodic value.

I've seen Jerry do mind-bendingly fast shit...it just wasn't his gig. Just because he didn't often outduel the metronome, definitely doesn't mean he couldn't. Wouldn't have been very consistant with his bluegrass/C&W roots.


You're still a fucking faggot-btw.

Terry in Crapchester wrote: EVH and Michael Anthony both sang backup in Van Halen. Of the three, including DLR, Anthony probably had the best pipes. I don't think he would have worked as a frontman, though.

First, rack this thread x!

Michael Anthony Siblewski was a fellow Pasadena HS student that joined in. DLR was in a rival band and because he had the PA equipment that he rented out to the Trojan Rubber Company, they hired him to be their singer.

Here is Mike doing his thing with that shit concept of VH3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69ICykgnYo&search=halen

Van, it's cool you got to meet those guys. A lot of them get bagged on because someone felt dissed at some point. I didn't realize Brue Dickenson was a smurf. I love that band and they are "Spinal Tap" to the core.

I've been to the Hollywood Guitar Center you've talked about and woud spend many an afternoon in there trying out different guitars. When I wanted good equipment I went to the place in Burbank. Since I lived a few blocks away from the Burbank store, I would go in and see my Texan buddy that worked there.

zysdale time.....

He's the guy that lived next door to the Van Halen's in the back house. His apartment was like the one in the Van Halen backyard that is called "5150." In Los Angeles, most of the older homes had either alley garages or were single room structures.

So, the guy that tricked out Eddie's amps had one in the Burbank store and all it was... was a really loud clean Marshall. There was nothing special about it other than an extra pot switch on the back of the amp. I played through it and it was me fucking up very loudly and clearly.

BTW, I saw Blackie Lawless walking down the sidewalk right by the store in CONCERT GEAR! hahahahaha It was so fucking funny to see his expression when I laughed at him from the front of the store.

Okay, now back to my Zy/Dins dealio...

I've heard Pat Travers was an asshole, BUT... when I lived in Mountain View and was currenly flying out of NAS Moffett Field, there was a Guitar Center in San Jose that I frequented. In comes Pat and the band and they were really fucking cool guys. I bought a Strat that Pat liked and he was telling me about weird colors of guitars he had.trev said: "BOOM BOOM, out go the lights! Anyway, that was Pat. They played a 3 song set and I sat on one of the speaker cabinets. The wind blew the hair on my legs as they played ZZTop's "Cheap Sunglasses."

After it was over and the 15 or so people cleared out, I asked Pat's guitar player to show me how to play Cheap Sunglasses. He sat down with me and went through the whole fucking thing.

After that Pat told me I should go to his show later that night in Cupertino where I'd be backstage. I was on the "Ready Alert" and had to decline. Those were some cool bruthas. They just took off the rack merchandise and just fucking rocked! Damn they were THAT good.

Dinsdale wrote:Van...you still don't know what the fuck you're talking about. You've obviously also never heard JGB.

But, it's interesting to note your attitude. "I'm faster than Jerry."

In your wet dreams.

No, it's true, but it don't mean shit. Jerry's not particularly quick. Never wanted to be, never tried to be, never needed to be.

More power to him. He was a musician, not a circus act.

I grew up on different shit, and I got sucked into the whole L.A./G.I.T. thing during the 80s, where every L.A. guitar player suddenly had to try to be DiMeola or Yngwie.

Stupid. I was always much more comfortable playing blues. Along the way though, yeah, I ended up getting faster than Jerry, which ain't saying much anyway.

Like I already said though (which you conveniently glossed over), I never was and never will be even remotely as good as Jerry. I'm fast, yeah, but I'm not an idiot. I know how good he is, and I know how good I'm not.

He's forgotten more than I'll ever know.

How old are you, anyway? 40-something. Well, props for still failing to realize what some of us did around the time of puberty -- that just because you can play fast, it doesn't necessarily mean you should play fast.

Read more, brainlessly emote less.

I already acknowledged that fact. I already said Jerry was way better, and that there's nothing to speed, in and of itself.

That being said, no, we've all heard enough JG to know that no, he couldn't just waltz in and instantly be equally comfortably trying to hang with Allan Holdsworth's stuff or DiMeola's or especially Vai's.

No chance in hell. He couldn't do it at all, much less do it with the comfort level he feels when he plays Grateful Dead music. He never focused his discipline in those disparate genres and unless someone's done so their whole life they couldn't even begin to do ANY of those genres very well, much less all of them.

Shit, you think even a guy as technically awesome as Paco DeLucia or Al DiMeola could suddenly and comfortably play Vai's crazy ass shit?

Of course they couldn't. They'd stumble around all over the place and they'd be uncomfortable as hell trying to be that wild with their phrasing.

It's quite simple, Dins. You way overshot the mark with your big mouth, again. I called you on it and rubbed your nose in it, again. You don't have the balls to man up and admit your error, again.

The best you can manage is a back handed white flag over your completely ridiculous Yngwie assertion. Where your asinine JG assertions are concerned though, nope, you've dug your heels into sand which you simply cannot defend.

It must be a Monday.

You're still a fucking faggot-btw.

You're still wishing you could at least once not get ruined by me in these things-btw

For all your bluster, Dins, for all your rampant onanism, I own you. Lock, stock and barrel, every time. I own you. Too much focus on style on your part...not enough substance. Your shtick works well when you're engaged in grey area insult fights. You're funny and you're creative. Those are your strengths. When it gets down to using language to construct tenable arguments that are well thought out and defensible, nope, you're too in love with your Style Shtick and too lazy to make sure you're correct on substance and verbiage before you dive into the deep end.

Sloppy. It's the hallmark of arrogance, and your arrogance defeats you every time.

Owned.

(At least you have great taste in music.)

I don't think sheer , technically dazzling shredding speed is a benchmark for brilliance . It's being able to interpret the style of the music in front of you that makes genius .

That's why this guy :



Was first call , and owned the Town .

drummer wrote:I don't think sheer, technically dazzling shredding speed is a benchmark for brilliance.

Neither does anybody else here. A monkey (or even C.C. DeVille) could be trained to play fast.

What's he playing? Who the fuck knows, but it could be fast!

Problem is, too many people dismiss Holdsworth, Yngwie and Vai as being guys who only play mindlessly fast mechanical shred like some Guitar Center dweeb when in fact their compositions are note perfect, beautifully constructed and light years beyond the comprehension of most of the people deriding them...

Problem is, too many people dismiss Yngwie and Vai for being guys who only play mindlessly fast shred like some Guitar Center dweeb when in fact their compositions are note perfect, beautifully constructed and light years beyond the comprehension of most of the people deriding them...

Is that a surprise to you? Not to me.

Most people don't know jack shit about composition and don't think of the technical aspect of a song, or player EVER.

If that was the case, there'd be No "achy breaky heart", or "macarena" or "Unskinny Bop" flooding the radio waves.

what percentage of the population do you think listens to a 3 chord rock song and breaks down its song structure and composition for techincal accuracy and note perfection? How about nearly zero?

There is no accounting for taste. That being said, players like Vai and Yngwie are dismissed by people ignorant of music composition with a simple "I don't like how it sounds", or "It's not my type of music". because they don't know shit

But that doesn't mean shit. Never will.

I had a classical music professor in college who thought all music other than classical was shit, not worth mentioning, and he never would allow any question or conversation on it in class. We spent every class analyzing mozart, bach, beethoven, etc.

Of course this is also a guy who was in his 40's, lived with mom, rather rotund and greasy, and who conducted classical symphonic pieces he played on the record player in his living room every evening "for fun"

A college professor of mine at OU heard me listening to Van Halen's "Ice Cream Man" through my headphones from 20 plus years ago. He was all into classical music and he asked if he could listen to what I was before class started. (Class never started because I was in there... haha... fuck you)

Anyway, he never heard of Van Halen and really dug that 1st album. Yes, they are simple, but they are/were a rock band. All 4 ingredients were there at the right time.

Remember how Disco sucked and that's all there was? Well Van Halen made Disco go away... at least in my perspective.

Heavy Metal guitar and masturbating. What's the difference?

Nishlord wrote:Heavy Metal guitar and masturbating. What's the difference?

Less finger callouses ....

Nishlord wrote:Heavy Metal guitar and masturbating. What's the difference?

Different viruses.

Van wrote:

drummer wrote:I don't think sheer, technically dazzling shredding speed is a benchmark for brilliance.

Neither does anybody else here. A monkey (or even C.C. DeVille) could be trained to play fast.

What's he playing? Who the fuck knows, but it could be fast!

Problem is, too many people dismiss Holdsworth, Yngwie and Vai as being guys who only play mindlessly fast mechanical shred like some Guitar Center dweeb when in fact their compositions are note perfect, beautifully constructed and light years beyond the comprehension of most of the people deriding them...

Let me clarify my point ....



I'm guessing most of you have heard this Tommy Tedesco without even knowing who he is , or have bought any of his records ( if you have heard the 'Bonanza' theme , that's him on the guitar , [or is a bouzouki ?? ) . He had some serious technique and chops . But the real talent he had in being able to play in many musical situations . That goes further than sheer facility , which BTW , he had . Tedesco recorded with a large variety of stringed instruments , (all in a standard guitar tuning though ) some pretty exotic ( like the aforementioned Bouzouki ) . His musical vocabulary was deep and thourough . He was authentic and accurate in any musical style he was presented with , and played it with authority . He is thought of as " The Most Recorded Guitarist in History " . He thousands of credited recordings under his belt .

That is a pretty serious axeman .

To me , facilty is only the means to the end . It is the depth of your musical vocabulary , and your conceptual approach , that is the constant challenge . It's one thing to be able to play a one handed roll at the very last notch of your metronome . But that won't help you if you can't swing a monkey doing a paying gig for the Blue Hairs at the local Country Club ( which pays ok for only a couple of hours work ) .

As far as the AH/Vai/Satch thing : the thing about Holdswoth to me isn't his blurring lines ( Gambale was THE rage when he first came out with a few shred guys I knew back then , because of his speed and his " sweep picking " technique ) , but it is his chord work and concepts that makes him stand out over any other guitarist out there , as well as his compostional concepts . I bought one of his chord books , just to try to understand a little more about his music , picked up a guitar , and played Twister on the fretboard . But the musical results from his chords ( and I could never represent them in any fashion ) are extraordinary .

Atomic Punk wrote:A college professor of mine at OU heard me listening to Van Halen's "Ice Cream Man" through my headphones from 20 plus years ago. He was all into classical music and he asked if he could listen to what I was before class started. (Class never started because I was in there... haha... fuck you)

Anyway, he never heard of Van Halen and really dug that 1st album. Yes, they are simple, but they are/were a rock band. All 4 ingredients were there at the right time.

Remember how Disco sucked and that's all there was? Well Van Halen made Disco go away... at least in my perspective.

it was in 1978----rush hemispheres-----that thru the pie in the face to disco for me..........unbelievable a 15 year old punk like me grasped that

ps love early vh--grreatest party testosterone music evah

mothster wrote:

Atomic Punk wrote:A college professor of mine at OU heard me listening to Van Halen's "Ice Cream Man" through my headphones from 20 plus years ago. He was all into classical music and he asked if he could listen to what I was before class started. (Class never started because I was in there... haha... fuck you)

Anyway, he never heard of Van Halen and really dug that 1st album. Yes, they are simple, but they are/were a rock band. All 4 ingredients were there at the right time.

Remember how Disco sucked and that's all there was? Well Van Halen made Disco go away... at least in my perspective.

it was in 1978----rush hemispheres-----that thru the pie in the face to disco for me..........unbelievable a 15 year old punk like me grasped that

ps love early vh--grreatest party testosterone music evah

Since we're reminiscing . . .

In my case, it was no one event, just the culmination of peer influence that did disco in for me. But I fear that disco didn't die so much as it morphed.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:But I fear that disco didn't die so much as it morphed.

Exactly.

In the late 70's, rock/pop music went in so many directions at once, it was only a matter of time before they stated to meld back together. From the Saturday Night Fever era(possibly the most influential album in the history of pop music), things began to change. At the forefront was Blondie, who introduced rock elements back into the club/dance oriented disco scene.

Rick James brough funk with undertones of punk to the table.

And the Pistols had gained so much notoriety with their antics, that they were bound to have some influence.

All those things culminated at about the same time as MTV came along, to take the "glamour" element that Saturday Night Fever brought to the table, and send it over the top...at which point, we had New Wave/Alternative, which marked an era of some of the worst, least-inspired songwriting ever.

And gave rise to Madonna. Entirely unrackable.

mothster wrote:

Atomic Punk wrote:A college professor of mine at OU heard me listening to Van Halen's "Ice Cream Man" through my headphones from 20 plus years ago. He was all into classical music and he asked if he could listen to what I was before class started. (Class never started because I was in there... haha... fuck you)

Anyway, he never heard of Van Halen and really dug that 1st album. Yes, they are simple, but they are/were a rock band. All 4 ingredients were there at the right time.

Remember how Disco sucked and that's all there was? Well Van Halen made Disco go away... at least in my perspective.

it was in 1978----rush hemispheres-----that thru the pie in the face to disco for me..........unbelievable a 15 year old punk like me grasped that

ps love early vh--grreatest party testosterone music evah

moth, I'm a fellow rush coolade drinker, but, if you are trying to say that Rush had fukkall to do with the death of disco you are on dope, more so than average rushfan.

Rush has pretty damn near singlehandedly carried the prog rock banner for the better part of three decades, but there fans were listening to YES or ELP prior to them, not Donna Summer.

VH on the other hand did alot to bring rock to the mainstream. Another group that did possibly even more was Pink Floyd. Actually, it wasn't so much floyd as it was one album, the wall. That came out when I was in high school and it had even my more "urban" classmates singing "we don't need no.....education". And those fukkers wouldn't touch VH with a ten foot pole.

Fellas, I am a Rush fan also, but am not a Geddy fan whatsoever. Neil Peart is the best rock and Roll drummer there is in my opinion and why Geddy and Lifeson have to use aliases for their names is beyond me.

BTW, fuck Islam.

AP, what are Geddy's and Lifeson's real names??

Geddy is a Jew
Lifeson is a Soviet.

Fine, but what are their actual names?

I'll get banned for personal info won't I?

Van, I forget but remember them saying what their real names were a few years ago. Why Alex picked Lifeson is puzzling. Geddy isn't even that guy's first name either. I don't remember but some internet whore could prolly find it out.

Van wrote:Fine, but what are their actual names?

Wikipedia might be a good place to look.

BSmack wrote:

Van wrote:Fine, but what are their actual names?

Wikipedia might be a good place to look.

According to Wikipedia, Geddy Lee is now his legal name. Understandable as to why Alex Lifeson took a stage name.

smackaholic wrote:

mothster wrote:

Atomic Punk wrote:A college professor of mine at OU heard me listening to Van Halen's "Ice Cream Man" through my headphones from 20 plus years ago. He was all into classical music and he asked if he could listen to what I was before class started. (Class never started because I was in there... haha... fuck you)

Anyway, he never heard of Van Halen and really dug that 1st album. Yes, they are simple, but they are/were a rock band. All 4 ingredients were there at the right time.

Remember how Disco sucked and that's all there was? Well Van Halen made Disco go away... at least in my perspective.

it was in 1978----rush hemispheres-----that thru the pie in the face to disco for me..........unbelievable a 15 year old punk like me grasped that

ps love early vh--grreatest party testosterone music evah

moth, I'm a fellow rush coolade drinker, but, if you are trying to say that Rush had fukkall to do with the death of disco you are on dope, more so than average rushfan.

Rush has pretty damn near singlehandedly carried the prog rock banner for the better part of three decades, but there fans were listening to YES or ELP prior to them, not Donna Summer.

VH on the other hand did alot to bring rock to the mainstream. Another group that did possibly even more was Pink Floyd. Actually, it wasn't so much floyd as it was one album, the wall. That came out when I was in high school and it had even my more "urban" classmates singing "we don't need no.....education". And those fukkers wouldn't touch VH with a ten foot pole.

i'm just saying 'hemispheres' was the anti-disco bomb for me, and my buds, in the musical underground, as rush was not radio popular at the time

most peeps recognized it later on

Atomic Punk wrote: Van, I forget but remember them saying what their real names were a few years ago. Why Alex picked Lifeson is puzzling. Geddy isn't even that guy's first name either. I don't remember but some internet whore could prolly find it out.

Lee's stage name (and later legal name) "Geddy" was inspired by the heavily-accented pronunciation of his given first name "Gary" by his grandmother.

Lifeson" is a literal translation of "Zivojinovich"

sin,

IW

Yep, that's what it was. My spreadsheet never got updated, but yeah you're right.

Terry in Crapchester wrote:

BSmack wrote:

Van wrote:Fine, but what are their actual names?

Wikipedia might be a good place to look.

According to Wikipedia, Geddy Lee is now his legal name.

Yep. His birth name was Gary Lee Weinrib.

Gary Lee Weinrib

The fact of which makes him responsible for all wars, all over the world.

Sincerely,
Nick, M Perk and Mel

True. His nose WAS the model for the ground based rocket launcher.

I must correct you Bushice, his nose was the model for all missle silos and deployment technology.

My bad.

Was he the father of the snot grenade, or was that streisand?

Atomic Punk wrote:why Geddy and Lifeson have to use aliases for their names is beyond me.

Geddy Lee and Alex Lifeson used stage names? Da horrah!

Sin,

Van wrote:

Gary Lee Weinrib

The fact of which makes him responsible for all wars, all over the world.

Sincerely,
Nick, M Perk and Mel

Not to mention mel gibson's drinking/driving habits.