T1B

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 11:50 am**

Smackie Chan wrote:
Pedro would be an interesting discussion. And would illicit many more emotional responses as he is an ultimate love-hate player. Hmmm....
Two more Ks puts him at 3,000. Three Cy Youngs (two AL, one NL), five-time league leader in ERA, three-time league leader in Ks, and a winning % of almost .700 say he's in, even with just over 200 wins. Feel free to get emotional about it, but that won't keep him out.

You won't get me emotional. I agree completely. You saw pitchers I am too young to have seen, but that being said...and this comes from someone who DID see J.R., Pedro at the top of his game was the best I ever saw pitch. Period.

Wags, I'll rustle up some Omar stuff for you when I have a little more time.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:39 pm**

Smackie Chan wrote:
rozy wrote:Omar will be enshrined.
You may be right.

May be right? May?

He doesn't have the AS appearances that Ozzie had, but when you're playing in the same league as Nomar, A-Rod, and Jeter and it's the steroid era, it's tough to participate in the Mid Summer Classic. People want to see "hitters", not "fielders."

Regardless, he still will retire with 11+ GG (2 less than Ozzie) and 2500+ hits (more than Ozzie) and that should be more than enough.

Vizquel is a much better fielder than The Wizard ever was.... this coming from a Cardinals fan. Not only is that my belief based upon on years of seeing both play, check the "stats." The only thing Ozzie had on Omar was range. Vizquel is a SLAM DUNK HOF. Not a first timer, sure, because he'll be retiring around the same time as much sexier choices, but the voters will eventually come to their senses.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 12:57 pm**

rozy wrote:You saw pitchers I am too young to have seen

Appearances can be deceiving; you're prolly not that much younger than I am.

While Orel Hershiser is not the greatest pitcher I ever saw, I did attend a game (vs. Cincy on 9/10/88 - my 28th birthday) during Bulldog's record scoreless inning streak. The argument can be made that during that relatively short stretch, no other pitcher was more dominant.

Despite being a Dodgers fan, having grown up in Anaheim, I went to several Angels games as a young'un, and got to see Nolan Ryan pitch many times. When I was 12, I came one lousy pitch away from witnessing history, too. The Yankees were playing the Angels on 8/29/73, and Thurman Munson came to bat in the first inning. He hit a routine pop fly behind second base. Shortstop Rudy Meoli and second baseman Sandy Alomar both converged on it, looked at each other, and let it drop. The scorekeeper ruled it a hit. It was the only one Ryan allowed that night. Had either infielder stuck his glove out and made the catch, it woulda been Ryan's third career no-hitter and third of the season.

It's a pretty easy call for me - Ryan was the best I ever saw.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:07 pm**

ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:People want to see "hitters", not "fielders."

Apparently, so do HoF voters. Look, as kids, the two positions that are typically played by the best athletes are pitcher and shortstop. But shortstops, because of what you quoted above, are often overlooked when it comes to HoF voting. I'm not saying it's right - it just is. He's gonna have a lot of competition from "sexier" candidates for votes because of the era in which he's playing, and I'm not sure, because of mindsets like that of Whitey, that he's a lock. He might end up being a Veteran's Committee selection.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:34 pm**

Smackie Chan wrote:But shortstops, because of what you quoted above, are often overlooked when it comes to HoF voting.

How many players, at any position, with more than 2,500 hits and 10 GG are not in the HOF? Are there any?

Not many shortstops are in Cooperstown because they don't have the credentials that Vizquel does. Not because the position itself is overlooked.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:51 pm**

Smackie Chan wrote:It's a pretty easy call for me - Ryan was the best I ever saw.

I'm not arguing with this at all, but I'd like to hear your take as to why Ryan had such a relatively low W/L percentage.
He always had a reasonably low ERA, and of course a shitload of K's .... but he wasn't winning as much as you'd think me might.
Easy answer, of course, is that he played on shit teams.
That's a huge factor, yes, but when you look at winning pct of the top 10 all-time in K's, Ryan's number sort of jumps out.

1. Ryan .526
2. Clemens .659
3. R. Johnson .654
4. Carlton .574
5. Blyleven .534
6. Seaver .603
7. Sutton .559
8. Perry .542
9. W. Johnson .599
10. P. Niekro .537

The other 'low win pct guys' on the list (Niekro, Perry, Sutton, Blyleven) couldn't carry Ryan's jock, and yet they had a better winning pct than the all-time K leader.

What do you think?

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 1:56 pm**

Toddowen wrote:After all....Boston is in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, I think.

You might want to provide a link on that one. Maybe the Poofter Pop Hall of Fame.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:06 pm**

Smackie Chan wrote:
ucantdoitdoggieSTyle2 wrote:People want to see "hitters", not "fielders."
Apparently, so do HoF voters.

Sorry, this came to me after I mashed "submit" with my last post.

Maybe... maybe not. Beware of the steroid backlash. I hope he and Sosa both retire after this year. Should be interesting five years later.

McGwire, 12 time AS and 7th in HR at the time the ballots were cast, got a mere 23% of the vote................

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 2:24 pm**

poptart wrote:Easy answer, of course, is that he played on shit teams.

That explains a lot of it, I think, as well as complacency on the part of his offense knowing he's on the hill. The problem with any explanation is that it would also apply to the others on the list. As the ace of the staff, he was probably going up against the other teams' best pitchers much of the time. Without seeing the actual stats, I'm sure he got horrible run support. It may also be that he ran hot & cold; when he was "on," he was virtually unhittable, but on other occasions, if his curveball wasn't working, he may have given up lots of walks and, despite the speed of his fastball, been not too tough to hit. I saw him pitch against the Angels as a member of the Rangers during his final season, and while he pitched seven strong innings, Texas still lost 3-2, although the loss went to the reliever.

But I think your easy answer is the mosty plausible - he simply played much of his career with very shitty teams.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 3:55 pm**

Smackie Chan wrote:He plays the right position to get in based almost solely on defensive ability, . . . The only non-shortstop I can think of who got in based on defense is Brooks Robinson.

How about catchers, Smackie? Take a look for yourself. http://www.baseball-almanac.com/hof/hofstca.shtml

Ray Schalk is in the Hall of Fame despite a .253 career average. Hell, Johnny Bench was pretty much considered the gold standard for catchers. As good as he was, would he be in the Hall if he had compiled those offensive stats as a 1B or an OF?

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:04 pm**

Jayson Stark points out in his new book that Ryan is the most overrated player beacause he never won a Cy Young award and he walked a lot of batters. Stark thinks a pitcher should overcome the obstacles of little or no run support, but Ryan faced that throughout his entire career. A career ERA of 3.12 is great. If you can hold your opponent to two runs over 7 innings, then you should win that game. As a Houstonian, I watched Ryan lose a lot of 2-1 and 1-0 ball games when I was a kid. It was tough. His winning percentage would have been in the high .600s if he played for better offesive teams. When I saw the Rocket go through the same thing 2 years ago with the 'Stros when he posted a 1.48 era and was only to able to manage a 13-8 mark, it reminded me a lot of Ryan's years here with the Astros. Some of these guys, you do have to look beyond the numbers to see how truly great they were.

Biggio is kind of like that too. His numbers are great, but for him to not hit into 1 twin killing in all of '97 is remarkable. I think he hit into only 2 DPs in '98.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:04 pm**

Toddowen wrote:maybe I'm wrong.

There you go. You're making strides.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the masses.

And in your case, never underestimate the biased, one-dimensional thinking of an east coast New York Yankee fan, who doesn't believe baseball is played west of NY.

Meh. I doubt you've seen much of Biggio play, Todd. Hell, you said the guy couldn't take his team to the post season, and when you got called out on that with facts, you changed your take to, "Wellll, uhhhh, errrrr, he didn't win a World Series."

Just shut up, dude.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 4:13 pm**

Terry in Crapchester wrote:Ray Schalk is in the Hall of Fame despite a .253 career average. Hell, Johnny Bench was pretty much considered the gold standard for catchers. As good as he was, would he be in the Hall if he had compiled those offensive stats as a 1B or an OF?

I know you are talking to Smackie, but I want to jump in on this. Electing a player to the Hall is bot a black and white observation. The catcher position is obviously viewed more as a defensive position than any other. Okay, so you can make an arguement for the SS. However, catchers destroy their bodies through their career and most of them do not hit well b/c their primary job is to help pitchers scout batters and know every situation that a manager would know. Their second job is to hold runners and be a permanent backstop for the pitcher and team. The catcher is the most active of all positions in baseball and hitting is probably the third and final priority for a catcher to practice. Writers should consider this when voting for a catcher and look beyond the offesive numbers and average out how many runs a catcher was able to save for their team on the defensive side of the ball and adjust his batting average accordingly.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 5:48 pm**

RumpleForeskin wrote:
Terry in Crapchester wrote:Ray Schalk is in the Hall of Fame despite a .253 career average. Hell, Johnny Bench was pretty much considered the gold standard for catchers. As good as he was, would he be in the Hall if he had compiled those offensive stats as a 1B or an OF?
I know you are talking to Smackie, but I want to jump in on this. Electing a player to the Hall is bot a black and white observation. The catcher position is obviously viewed more as a defensive position than any other. Okay, so you can make an arguement for the SS. However, catchers destroy their bodies through their career and most of them do not hit well b/c their primary job is to help pitchers scout batters and know every situation that a manager would know. Their second job is to hold runners and be a permanent backstop for the pitcher and team. The catcher is the most active of all positions in baseball and hitting is probably the third and final priority for a catcher to practice. Writers should consider this when voting for a catcher and look beyond the offesive numbers and average out how many runs a catcher was able to save for their team on the defensive side of the ball and adjust his batting average accordingly.

As I was posting my take about shortstop being the position most heavily weighted with regard to defense, I was thinking about catcher (and, to a degree, second base), too. (To be perfectly accurate, pitcher is actually the most defensive of positions, especially in the American League. Remember, baseball is the only sport I'm aware of in which the defense controls the ball.) But there are other factors that go into making a great catcher, such as field leadership, ability to handle pitchers, calling pitches, and offensive skills. Catcher is most assuredley more of a defensive position than offensive. But because of the physical demands required of the position, the offensive expectations placed on those who play it are lower than for other positions. No one expects catchers to bat .300 or steal bases. Piazza is the exception, not the rule - a catcher with limited defensive skills who could hit for average and with power. Pudge Rodriguez is even more of a freak (even if chemically enhanced) - a lifetime .303 hitter with sick defensive and leadership skills. This is just conjecture on my part, since I haven't looked at the team stats, but I would guess that most of the catchers enshrined played predominantly for winning teams, unlike pitchers like Ryan, Carlton, Blyleven, and Walter Johnson (who, by the way, I never saw pitch!). I'm also guessing that voters credit the catcher's leadership as being a significant factor contributing to the team's success, and that this is considered when casting votes.

As 'skin mentioned, HoF selection is not an exact science.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:12 pm**

Smackie Chan wrote:As 'skin mentioned, HoF selection is not an exact science.

As 'skin has shown, neither is MATE selection.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:31 pm**

I think what may be the ultimate undoing for Biggio's induction, is the voters might be put off by the fact he has sex with other men...there is that.

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:37 pm**

Dinsdale wrote:I think what may be the ultimate undoing for Biggio's induction, is the voters might be put off by the fact he has sex with other men...there is that.

This is over three years old and may be glass dick, but it's still rackable ...

NEW YORK - In recent years, homosexuality has become widely accepted throughout American pop culture. That tolerance has not touched Major League Baseball, however, where there are currently no openly gay players. Still, experts predict it is only a matter of time before these men step out of the closet. So the question remains: Of the four closeted gay players currently in the league - Mike Piazza, Andy Pettitte, J.D. Drew, and Derek Jeter - which will come out of the closet in 2004?

“My money’s on Piazza,” said one AL player, who asked not to be identified. “He hasn’t been very good at keeping the secret. Plus, he’s a real courageous guy. I think he’ll be the first guy to come out of the closet and open the door up for Jeter, Pettitte, and Drew.”

Piazza has been the subject of gay rumors in the past, but he has yet to come clean about his homosexual lifestyle. Still, he is the consensus favorite to come out of the closet in 2004.

“If I had to put money on someone, it would be Piazza,” said an AL manager. “He’s such a great player and a great person. Everyone already knows he’s gay and universally accepts him for it. So it’s just a formality for him to step up to the podium and admit it. Plus, we all know that since he’s a catcher he’s, well, a catcher – if you catch my drift. Wink wink.”

Despite the confidence of his fellow players, Piazza refuses to come out of the closet and has repeatedly stated that he’s not gay.

“I’m not coming out of the closet because I’m not gay,” Piazza said during a telephone interview yesterday. “I’m not gay, really. Jesus, you do a few shampoo commercials and all of a sudden the whole world thinks you’re taking it up the ass. It’s not my fault I have bitchin hair.”

While Piazza is the most popular choice, the three other gay players in the league – Jeter, Drew, and
Pettitte – all have their supporters.

“It’s a toss up for me. It’s either going to be Drew or Pettitte,” said the Yankees Bernie Williams. “Jeter has too much to lose by publicly declaring it. You know, endorsements and such. Plus, he really thinks he’s fooling people. Truly. At least with J.D. and Andy it’s obvious. I mean, look at the way Andy carries on with his ‘friend’ Roger Clemens. Why don’t they just move to Massachusetts and get married?”

One of Williams’ teammates, who asked not to be identified, agreed with his assessment.

“Definitely not Jeter. He’s too much of a pinup boy. He needs to be seen in public with beautiful girls all the time to maintain his image. Coming out of the closet is a hard thing to do, I imagine. I think Derek would just rather have everyone whispering that he’s gay, rather than saying it out loud.”

But, he added, the players do have a right to their privacy.

“Hey if these gay guys don’t want the public to know they're gay, they have a right to stay in the closet.”

Jeter himself, when reached for comment, asserted that he would not be coming out of the closet anytime soon.

“No way. I would never do that,” he said. “I’m not even gay. What every happened to accuracy in the media? I take exception with everyone accusing me of being a homo and urging me to come out of the closet. Trust me, if I were gay, I’d tell everyone. I’m Derek fucking Jeter. Nothing can taint my totally awesome image.”

He added: “Why don’t you talk to Bernie Williams? He plays smooth-jazz guitar. What’s gayer than that?”

With the gay issue taking front and center in the national sports media, it may be impossible for these four closeted gay players to stay under the radar much longer. Several media outlets are calling for “The Gay 4” to publicly declare their sexuality.

Pettitte was featured on the cover of a recent issue of Sports Illustrated with the headline “Will He Come Out?” Piazza was recently the subject of a piece on ESPN’s Outside the Lines about gay athletes, in which a panel of experts debated exactly when the Mets star would make his big announcement. Drew and Jeter were discussed on Around the Horn, with Max Kellerman concluding that J.D. Drew would be the first openly gay player.

For his part, Drew claims to be “100 percent” straight. The Braves outfielder says he has no intention of coming out of the closet, and that the rumors are just that – rumors.

“I don’t know why everyone thinks I’m gay. I’m not gay. Just because I’m handsome and well dressed doesn’t make me gay. That being said, if I was gay and was considering coming out of the closet, I would never do it while I was still playing baseball. It would be selfish and a distraction to my teammates. If, in fact, I was homosexual, I would come out of the closet during a blockbuster, tell-all interview with Bryant Gumbel on HBO’s Real Sports after I retire. But I’m not gay anyway.”

When Gumbel heard Drew’s comments, he immediately reached out to the rightfielder.

“I totally support Mr. Drew’s lifestyle and would be happy to let him on my show to come out of the closet,” Gumbel said in a press release issued Tuesday. “We here at Real Sports support gay rights and tolerance of all lifestyles, and believe that a gay man like J.D. Drew should be able to declare his sexuality with pride. Therefore, consider this an open invitation to Mr. Drew to sit down with me and confess his gayness. To show my support, I am even willing to confess my secret German Shepard fetish."

Posted: **Tue Jul 03, 2007 6:50 pm**

I'm just disappointed this made it to page 3 without a "Biggio is gay" comment.

I probably should have posted it with my Marcus Allen Troll™, though.

Posted: **Thu Jul 05, 2007 1:53 pm**

Smackie Chan wrote:This is over three years old and may be glass dick, but it's still rackable ...

NEW YORK - In recent years, homosexuality has become widely accepted throughout American pop culture. That tolerance has not touched Major League Baseball, however, where there are currently no openly gay players. Still, experts predict it is only a matter of time before these men step out of the closet. So the question remains: Of the four closeted gay players currently in the league - Mike Piazza, Andy Pettitte, J.D. Drew, and Derek Jeter - which will come out of the closet in 2004?

“My money’s on Piazza,” said one AL player, who asked not to be identified. “He hasn’t been very good at keeping the secret. Plus, he’s a real courageous guy. I think he’ll be the first guy to come out of the closet and open the door up for Jeter, Pettitte, and Drew.”

Piazza has been the subject of gay rumors in the past, but he has yet to come clean about his homosexual lifestyle. Still, he is the consensus favorite to come out of the closet in 2004.

“If I had to put money on someone, it would be Piazza,” said an AL manager. “He’s such a great player and a great person. Everyone already knows he’s gay and universally accepts him for it. So it’s just a formality for him to step up to the podium and admit it. Plus, we all know that since he’s a catcher he’s, well, a catcher – if you catch my drift. Wink wink.”

Despite the confidence of his fellow players, Piazza refuses to come out of the closet and has repeatedly stated that he’s not gay.

“I’m not coming out of the closet because I’m not gay,” Piazza said during a telephone interview yesterday. “I’m not gay, really. Jesus, you do a few shampoo commercials and all of a sudden the whole world thinks you’re taking it up the ass. It’s not my fault I have bitchin hair.”

While Piazza is the most popular choice, the three other gay players in the league – Jeter, Drew, and
Pettitte – all have their supporters.

“It’s a toss up for me. It’s either going to be Drew or Pettitte,” said the Yankees Bernie Williams. “Jeter has too much to lose by publicly declaring it. You know, endorsements and such. Plus, he really thinks he’s fooling people. Truly. At least with J.D. and Andy it’s obvious. I mean, look at the way Andy carries on with his ‘friend’ Roger Clemens. Why don’t they just move to Massachusetts and get married?”

One of Williams’ teammates, who asked not to be identified, agreed with his assessment.

“Definitely not Jeter. He’s too much of a pinup boy. He needs to be seen in public with beautiful girls all the time to maintain his image. Coming out of the closet is a hard thing to do, I imagine. I think Derek would just rather have everyone whispering that he’s gay, rather than saying it out loud.”

But, he added, the players do have a right to their privacy.

“Hey if these gay guys don’t want the public to know they're gay, they have a right to stay in the closet.”

Jeter himself, when reached for comment, asserted that he would not be coming out of the closet anytime soon.

“No way. I would never do that,” he said. “I’m not even gay. What every happened to accuracy in the media? I take exception with everyone accusing me of being a homo and urging me to come out of the closet. Trust me, if I were gay, I’d tell everyone. I’m Derek fucking Jeter. Nothing can taint my totally awesome image.”

He added: “Why don’t you talk to Bernie Williams? He plays smooth-jazz guitar. What’s gayer than that?”

With the gay issue taking front and center in the national sports media, it may be impossible for these four closeted gay players to stay under the radar much longer. Several media outlets are calling for “The Gay 4” to publicly declare their sexuality.

Pettitte was featured on the cover of a recent issue of Sports Illustrated with the headline “Will He Come Out?” Piazza was recently the subject of a piece on ESPN’s Outside the Lines about gay athletes, in which a panel of experts debated exactly when the Mets star would make his big announcement. Drew and Jeter were discussed on Around the Horn, with Max Kellerman concluding that J.D. Drew would be the first openly gay player.

For his part, Drew claims to be “100 percent” straight. The Braves outfielder says he has no intention of coming out of the closet, and that the rumors are just that – rumors.

“I don’t know why everyone thinks I’m gay. I’m not gay. Just because I’m handsome and well dressed doesn’t make me gay. That being said, if I was gay and was considering coming out of the closet, I would never do it while I was still playing baseball. It would be selfish and a distraction to my teammates. If, in fact, I was homosexual, I would come out of the closet during a blockbuster, tell-all interview with Bryant Gumbel on HBO’s Real Sports after I retire. But I’m not gay anyway.”

When Gumbel heard Drew’s comments, he immediately reached out to the rightfielder.

“I totally support Mr. Drew’s lifestyle and would be happy to let him on my show to come out of the closet,” Gumbel said in a press release issued Tuesday. “We here at Real Sports support gay rights and tolerance of all lifestyles, and believe that a gay man like J.D. Drew should be able to declare his sexuality with pride. Therefore, consider this an open invitation to Mr. Drew to sit down with me and confess his gayness. To show my support, I am even willing to confess my secret German Shepard fetish."

Rack Smackie.

If I had a vote, it would be for either Piazza or Drew, since they're the only two that ever wore Dodger uniforms. On second thought, let's go with Piazza -- Drew at least has played part of his career in the American League.

On a more serious note, Toddowen has to be some kind of stupid if he thinks Biggio won't make the Hall. I'm not really a Biggio guy, and I don't think he'll necessarily be a first-ballot selection, but he's in at some point. 3,000 hits is a virtually unassailable milestone, except for Pete Rose, and there are some compelling counter-arguments in that case.

And I don't think fishing for character flaws necessarily will keep him out either. Other than the rules that go to the sanctity of the game, there really isn't a morals clause on Hall of Fame selection. And I think even the roiders will probably get the benefit of the doubt in that regard -- or at least, those of them who were smart enough to either get out of the game or get off the juice before the rules explicitly changed will (sup, Raffy Palmeiro). If there were a morals clause as to Hall of Fame selection, Ty Cobb wouldn't be in.

Posted: **Fri Jul 06, 2007 4:02 am**

Toddowen wrote:Right, Terry....what the fuck are you? Some kind of gay Texas cowboy or something?

No, he's just another Yankee fan.

Posted: **Fri Jul 06, 2007 1:33 pm**

Toddowen wrote:Right, Terry....what the fuck are you? Some kind of gay Texas cowboy or something?

I don't know where you grew up, but around my hood the mere mention of Biggio entering the hall o' fame was considered fighting words.

New Yorkers are never gay.

Hugs and Kisses,

Joey Boots

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 4:06 am**

I might be the only one to get that reference.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 8:53 pm**

Toddowen wrote:I don't know where you grew up, but around my hood the mere mention of Biggio entering the hall o' fame was considered fighting words.

When I grew up, Biggio wasn't even in the major leagues, so such a discussion obviously would have been pointless.

Where I grew up, the National League was irrelevant, so there was no sense working up a fit over a National Leaguer.

If there's even a semblance of truth to what you posted, you need to check yourself. Preferably hard.

Posted: **Sat Jul 07, 2007 9:24 pm**

Toddowen wrote:I'm making it my own personal crusade to keep Biggio from getting in. If he tries to enter the hall, I will fight him.

Why not just kill yourself when it happens?

I'll be here for ya when it does, if only to post --->

I really didn't give a shit one way or another, but now I'm making it a personal crusade to get Biggio in. Thanks, Tardd.

Btw, what does that entail, exactly? Sending notes to Selig threatening suicide if he gets in? Banging your mom an extra time for good luck on 7-7-07? Do tell.

Posted: **Tue Jul 24, 2007 9:02 pm**

Bump.

Biggio retiring. Rare today to see a guy retire on his own terms and with one team. Hopefully the last game of the season, he can play catcher for a couple of innings, centerfield, and then 2nd base to end it all. Would be sweet.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2947484

HOUSTON -- Houston Astros infielder Craig Biggio plans to retire at the end of the season after a 20-year career in which he joined the elite 3,000-hit club.

Distinguished Company
Only seven major league players have more than 3,000 hits and 400 stolen bases. Five are enshrined in Cooperstown.

"I get to go out on top. The 3,000th hit night was the best. I'll never forget that," Biggio said at a news conference Tuesday. "I'm in a good place. I think I've done everything I could on a baseball field."

The 41-year-old Biggio got his 3,000th hit on June 28.

"I just can't believe it's over. It's gone by fast," he said. "I have no regrets. I played the game the right way."

Biggio is batting .247 with 24 doubles, five homers and 31 RBIs. He began Tuesday with 3,014 hits, six shy of tying Rafael Palmeiro for 23rd place. He has been selected to the All-Star Game seven times and has four Gold Glove awards.

Biggio has played his entire major league career with the Astros, becoming the longest-tenured player in franchise history. The others in the 3,000 hit club who played for one team: Stan Musial of the Cardinals (3,630), Carl Yastrzemski of the Red Sox (3,419), Cal Ripken of the Orioles (3,184), George Brett of the Royals (3,154), Robin Yount of the Brewers (3,142). Tony Gwynn of the Padres (3,141), Al Kaline of the Tigers (3,007) and Roberto Clemente of the Pirates (3,000).

A teary-eyed Biggio said he will miss putting on his uniform every day and also will miss the fans.

Along with teammate and friend Jeff Bagwell, who retired before the start of this season, Biggio led the Astros to four division titles, the team's first NL pennant and trip to the World Series in 2005.

Biggio's 3,000th hit came one day shy of the 19th anniversary of his first career hit, a single off Orel Hershiser on June 29, 1988.

"He's done all of the things that he possibly could do in his career," Bagwell told KRIV-TV in Houston. "All of those things that he's done in his career is something he can hang on his mantle and be very, very proud of, especially in five years when he walks into the Hall of Fame."

Biggio should be a first-ballot Hall-of-Famer, Bagwell told the station. "I know so and if anybody doesn't believe that then they're crazy," he said.

Biggio is the only player in major league history with 600 doubles, 250 homers, 3,000 hits and 400 steals. Biggio is a career .282 hitter. He has already been inducted into the Texas Baseball Hall of Fame and the Texas Sports Hall of Fame.

A seven-time All-Star, Biggio starred at Seton Hall and was the 22nd player selected in the 1987 amateur draft. He caught his first four seasons.

He made his first All-Star Game in 1991, but the Astros moved him to second base in 1992, a position he had never played. But he made the All-Star team again, ranking among the NL's top 10 in runs, walks and stolen bases.

After the Astros acquired Jeff Kent in 2002, Biggio moved to the outfield. When Kent left in 2004, Biggio returned to second.

Biggio considered leaving Houston when he became a free agent in 1995 and had an offer from Colorado. Astros owner Drayton McLane said he called Biggio every day for three weeks to persuade him to stay.

Biggio, his wife, Patty, and their three children live in Houston. He thanked his family at the news conference.

"I can't justify being out of their lives any more. I want to be home," he said.

During his two decades with the Astros, Biggio has become known in the city as much for his charitable work as for his play. He has been the national spokesman and fundraiser for the Sunshine Kids Foundation, which helps children with cancer, for more than a decade.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:40 am**

Todd, is the SportsCenter primetime slot the only outlet you have access to or something? And if big names around the rest of the country seem so obscure to you, how is it that you feel qualified to form opinions against them? I'll give you bonus time on that last question.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:40 am**

To clarify -- is he retiring from baseball, or retiring from sucking cocks?

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:46 am**

i read books

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:12 am**

Toddowen wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote: I'll give you bonus time on that last question.
'The Bronx Is Burning' is about to start, so I'm going to have to forget about this Biggio guy that people are saying is a shoo-in for the hall.

Sorry. Bigio just isn't worthy of being remembered or remarked upon. This thread should never have made it to two pages.

Yeah, that grand slam he just hit was a mirage...

The only thing worse than a shit troll is a shit troll with an obsession.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:15 am**

rozy wrote:The only thing worse than a shit troll is a shit troll with an obsession.

Sigworthy.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 2:51 am**

Toddowen wrote:You know the saying about "If a tree falls.." , don't you?

Hell, when Biggio waltzes into the Hall, he'd probably rather do so as a relative unknown...if that's even possible. That would mean he got in solely on his playing ability alone, and not due to excessive media dickslurping. Of course, he won't slide in unnoticed by any stretch. The dude's a household name in MLB. My dad knows as much about MLB "stars" as Foreskin does about one night stands, but he'll tell you who Craig freaking Biggio is.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:01 am**

MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:My dad knows...

Aww, shucks.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:14 am**

War Wagon wrote:
MgoBlue-LightSpecial wrote:My dad knows...
Aww, shucks.

No need to get grandpa involved. You're already an embarrassment to Mgo.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:22 am**

Did you just try to run smack, didio?

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:39 am**

Well, let's all hope you put an end to your miserable life before the 5 years comes due so you won't have to eat crow, Tard.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:40 am**

Toddowen wrote: And oh yeah....five years from now, when it's time to vote for the latest crop of eligible players, Biggio wont make it because he will be even less known than he already is at this present time and his stats will be just a bunch of filler.

Quit trolling the Houston fans, Todd.

Seriously. What? You want they should have an apolectic fit?

That's completely ignorant horseshit, and you know it.

Or you're a moron.

So which is it?

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:44 am**

Craig Biggio wrote:I think I've done everything that I was supposed to do on a baseball field. I have nothing to be disappointed about."

40 post-season games played

2 Home Runs and 30 Strike Outs

.234 average

Swept in a World Series

He did it all and has nothing to be disappointed about.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:58 am**

Pop,

Some people set the bar lower. Perhaps he was just hoping to get chicks.

Or guys

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:11 pm**

poptart wrote:
Craig Biggio wrote:I think I've done everything that I was supposed to do on a baseball field. I have nothing to be disappointed about."
40 post-season games played

2 Home Runs and 30 Strike Outs

.234 average

Swept in a World Series

He did it all and has nothing to be disappointed about.

If post season makes a hall of famer then why isn't Dave Henderson in the HOF? That's right, because he was a marginal player in the regular season.

Hey, Stern,

Make way for Robert Horry.

Posted: **Wed Jul 25, 2007 1:21 pm**

I didn't say he doesn't belong in the Hall.
In fact, I've said in this thread that he'll no doubt get in.

I was mocking mr .234 for jerking off all over himself.