T1B

mvscal wrote:They are both faith based systems of belief completely unsupported by any real evidence.

You forgot profitable.

Felix wrote: ..well unlike you, I don't feel the need to regale a bunch of fucking strangers about my personal life..

Of course, you've got plenty more to hide in those compartmentalized closets. And trust me, I really don't want to know about your personal life. It would remind me about that essay contest for Bronco tickets where you dreamed fantasized about chloroforming some unsuspecting blogger and having your way....

It puts on the lotion...

But oh, the righteous indignation over children being taught something you disagree with...

I call bullshit on you having any kids. Most anybody that's been posting on these boards for any amount of time has made reference at one time or another to their children.

But not you, until now, when it serves your interest.

mvscal wrote:
And where, exactly, is this happening again?

Oh, do you let your kids watch TV?

lots of state board's of education are trying the same thing...hopefully they'll fail just as miserably as they did in delaware

as for my kids watching tv...sure, but trust me PTL and the 700 club are strictly taboo....parental controls are a wonderful thing

Tom In VA wrote: Felix,

I understand your disdain for all things Judeo Christian, but turn the fucking channel dude. Nobody forces your children to see or hear these things. You're funny. I'll bet when your enemy, the Christers complain about the sex, violence, and suggestive material all over the place; that you're the first to tell them to shut the fuck up and turn the channel or raise their children. Well, follow that model. Turn the fucking channel.

this is a theology forum....what do you think I should talk about...baseball?

Follow up with your child and explain that what they're seeing and hearing is only one view, it's not your view, you hope it's not the child's view but that people are free to express their views in this country. Tell them to get a good grade in the class to get through it and succeed. I don't know about you, but when I'm walking through tall grass, I want to know precisely where the bullshit and snake holes are. Tell him the teachers are just informing them of - "fairy tales that the less fortunate and weaker kids need to hear". I don't know, do what it takes. But please, for the love of science .... STOP CRYING.

who's crying bud...I'm debating religion in a theology forum
you seem to be under the impression that I hate Christians, which couldn't be further from the truth...some of my best buds are bible toting, God loving (and fearing) thumpers...we go round and round about this shit all the time, but at the end of the day we slap each other on the back, buy each other a beer, and relish the fact that we have a good enough friendship that in the final analysis it doesn't matter what we believe, just that we enjoy our friendship...actually I was kind of hoping for the same, in an interwebs best bud kind of way

As for the "monster under the bed". When lil' Felix comes in at night crying about the fact some mean man told him that he might go to hell because daddy doesn't read the "Good Book" to him every night. Tell lil' felix the following.

1. There is no heaven or hell.
2. There is no God.
3. We are simply organic lifeforms with overactive brains that cause us to imagine things other animals probably do not.
4. When we die, we die, our bodies decay and go back to the earth to form more "soup" for the evolutionary cycle to stir.
Key, yes, evolutionary cycle - remember life had to begin somewhere - so why not a primordial ooze of elements and goo.
5. The "Good Book" is a fictional work used throughout centuries to do one thing. Oppress.

These are the things you know to be true. So share them with your progeny. He is being misguided by all these neanderthals and it really is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to set him straight. Just be honest with the child.

no, it's my responsibility to ensure that my children get a proper education from the schools I support with my tax dollars....the responsibility shouldn't fall on me to deprogram my children

if somebody wants to teach their children about religion that's their business and their responsibility...

sorry if I come across a little strong, but on this particular point, I'm pretty stubborn.

War Wagon wrote:
But oh, the righteous indignation over children being taught something you disagree with...

look, I couldn't care less if you want your kids to be druids, again it's your personal choice and none of my business....but why wouldn't you accord me the same courtesy

I call bullshit on you having any kids. Most anybody that's been posting on these boards for any amount of time has made reference at one time or another to their children.

But not you, until now, when it serves your interest.

look hoss, I don't care whether you think I have kids or not and really the argument is not specifically directed at my kids, but at children in general...how far do you think we would have advanced as a species if we'd just accepted the notion that some god poofed everything into existence as opposed to what we know now?

oh and just so you know, you're almost as much of an atheist as I am...you don't believe in Thor or Zeus, you don't worship the Sun God Ra, you put no credence in Baltic deities,Celtic deities, Paleo-Balkanic deities, Etruscan deities, Finnic deities, Germanic deities, Hungarian deities, Roman deities, or Slavic deities, you don't worship Guan Yu, Allah, Bhagavan, Baal or any of the other thousands of "gods" that have at one time or another been worshiped as the creator of all things...

see, the only real difference between you and I is that you simply believe in 1 more god than I do

wow, a triple post...I think that's a record for me

Hey felix, you're a good Joe. Here's your slap on the back. I too was just discussing. You totally ignored most of the points I was making, but I understand. It's tough to have to address issues with kids. It would be a lot better if public schools taught only what YOU want them to teach.

Keep up the good fight.

Felix wrote:the argument is not specifically directed at my kids...but at children in general

Au contraire.

You made it quite clear the argument was all about your (imaginary) kids... to wit:

I simply won't stand for a bunch of fucking neanderthals scaring the shit out of my kids with fairy tales and threats of eternal punishment unless they behave according to "Christian values"

and then:

it's my responsibility to ensure that my children get a proper education from the schools I support with my tax dollars....the responsibility shouldn't fall on me to deprogram my children

You've now moved the goalposts, which is no surprise. Whenever you're called out for being a half-witted, lying dumbfuck, that's your default position. You did likewise in the AIG thread, and I've seen you do the same thing for years. You have the backbone of an amoeba. When challenged on anything, you immediately try to start weaseling out of your previous "take" that you were so confident in to begin with.

Christ, assuming for a minute that you do indeed have children, don't bother trying to teach them anything. They'll ignore you and eventually arrive at their own conclusions.

War Wagon wrote:
Christ, assuming for a minute that you do indeed have children, don't bother trying to teach them anything. They'll ignore you and eventually arrive at their own conclusions.

I'm not sure why you're so hung up on whether I have kids or not wags-I do, but that's not the point I'm driving at here

the point is as you've stated, that children should be left to their own device when they're educated and versed enough to determine if they want to follow a particular tenet...but that's not the way it typically happens is it?

children are more often than not dragged off to their parents church at an early age with absolutely no say so in the matter....do you think that's really the way it should be, or do you think they should have the opportunity to make their own decision?

Felix wrote: children are more often than not dragged off to their parents church at an early age with absolutely no say so in the matter....do you think that's really the way it should be, or do you think they should have the opportunity to make their own decision?

Why should they have a say in the matter? By definition, they are children and incapable of making their own decisions until a certain age.... say, 12.

There are worse things than being dragged off to church. Much worse. You make it sound like a form of punishment. My daughter loved going to church and I never had to force her. Heck, she tried to force me.

Now that she's an adult, she's deeply committed to her faith, and I didn't have a damn thing to do with it for the most part.

Children really don't know much, Felix.

Parents ought to direct them in all ways that they think are correct.

When a child is old enough to stand on his own and provide for himself in the world, that child can do what he wants and say, "Damn, Dad, you're really fucked," if he wants to.

poptart wrote:Children really don't know much, Felix.

exactly right...maybe this video will better exemplify what I'm driving at here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gX-vQ5sMOw

extreme-absolutely, but the point is that these two girls were never given the chance to make the decision for themselves-they've been indoctrinated into the vileness of their parents extreme hatred....unfortunately I don't think there's any escape for these two....

now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Christianity is bad...there are far worse things out there.... what I am saying is that children that are brainwashed into their parents religion are never really afforded the opportunity to make their own decisions

but parenting is a personal thing and every parent needs to do what they think is best for their children and really, there's nothing inherently wrong with taking your children to church on sunday

I basically agree with your point, Felix.

From my perspective, there is nothing better than parents of genuine and realistic faith in Christ relaying that faith to their children.

Such a relay ought to occur naturally, with the child wanting to adopt such a faith because they see it working so well for the folks.

But it doesn't usually work that way.

To some extent, most all parents of "faith" will try to FORCE their kids into taking the same step of faith without remembering that it IS ... faith, and that faith does not normally come when someone is continually jamming it on you.
Lots of kids quietly go along or play along with the gig, but keep anger or resentment inside over the actions of the parents.
Some kids are just ignorant sheep who go along.
Or ... some kids openly rebel.

Kids need to have some breathing room in which to seek, ask questions, and find out what THEY really do believe.

MOST Christian parents have the best intentions, but they don't deal with their kids like they ought to because they themselves lack true faith, or they have a "strange" faith that does not understand Christ correctly.

So sadly, the world is full of very strange Christians who do very strange things.

In fact, some of THE strangest people you can meet are Christians.

On the other hand, some of THE most sincere and kind people you can meet are Christians.

poptart wrote:On the other hand, some of THE most sincere and kind people you can meet are Christians.

agreed-by and large the majority of christians are very good people

you're one of those tart

(when do we start singing Kumbaya)

Raised as a Christian...still try to believe...have a whole shit-ton of questions about it as an adult.

I've alway's wondered one thing since I was a young child......

Why doesn't God just appear....have a meeting with world leaders...and go on back to heaven? Every human on earth would then believe. How could they not?

For anyone says.....he already did that....how about once every 20 years? Nowadays we could document it all.

And if it's going to be go great in heaven....take us there now. Sometimes I get tired of this shit on earth and how it contradicts everything I was ever taught. From the president on down.

Earth is mostly greed and self-aggrandizing bullshit.

H, question ...

You say you were raised a Christian.
As I read that, and the rest of your post, I get the impression that you ... went along ... with what your parents led you into, but perhaps did not really have a conviction yourself that it is truth.

Did you come to a point of personal acceptance of Christ as the truth?


About why God doesn't just appear and show himself to everyone, I will say this ...

God is Spirit -- John 4:24.
And ALL people can "see" and "understand" that there IS a God, so nobody has an excuse to deny it -- Romans 1:20.

The Bible further says that God "knew" the believers before the creation.
But satan hijacked ALL people, as recorded in Genesis 3.
God's method of "calling back" HIS people to Himself, is through our acceptance of Jesus Christ.
Those who deny Christ are not God's children.

poptart wrote: Those who deny Christ are not God's children.

so there are about 4 billion people that "are not God's children"?

when the end of the world comes, god is going to have a lot of killing and banishing into the fiery depth of hell to do....

no doubt, he's going to have a full day

edit: if you want an example (albeit an extreme example) of what I consider to be a great disservice of parents to their children, watch this playlist of a BBC special entitled Deborah 13

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p ... EA69882DF1

a 13 year old girl that spends the vast majority of her life telling people (and herself) that they are evil, vile, wicked beings that deserve to go to hell...fuck me running, her parents should be prosecuted for child abuse

she has no chance at living any semblence of a normal life

Sudden Sam wrote: God loves slaughtering people. Seems to have been his favorite pastime in the Old Testament.

yeah, he's a pretty testy omnipotent

I think his total kills in the Old Testament were about 2,400,000, but that's probably on the low side

Felix wrote:so there are about 4 billion people that "are not God's children"?

They don't believe God.
They're not His children.

John 10:26,27 (Jesus speaking to the Pharisees)
But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:


Felix, you've posted about the wacko Phelps clan and now about this Deborah 13 chick with wacko parents.

And so?

Wacko parents are wacko parents.

Like a box of chocolates[/Gump], wacko parents come in ALL varieties.



Sam, curious, do you ignore God because you don't like his character, or do you think He is not real?

Sudden Sam wrote: However, I try to be open to all schools of thought. If some folks need that threat of eternal damnation to stay on the straight and narrow, then go for it! Doesn't seem to work real well, though.

The percentage of "christians" inside US prisons is astronomically higher than that of those outside of prisons.

Sudden Sam wrote: What is this great need that so many feel?

it's not need, it's fear
death is the greatest fear of man and belief in a hereafter is simply an effort to suppress that fear