HEY JON

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

bwahahaha. I'll get back to this later.

[TheJON]

Iowa threw the season down the drain long before we faced Western Michigan. Like I said, if the only thing you're playing for is to get to the Insight Bowl and you lose, who really gives a shit?????

Because winners want to win and enjoy winning. Nice to see you've got a program full of losers, just its fanbase and populace. Tard.

You think winners give a fuck about Western Michigan???????? I did not say Iowa didn't want to win the game, I said that they really weren't playing for much in that game as opposed to you claiming the season was on the line- which it wasn't.

[TheJON]

bwahahaha. I'll get back to this later.

With I'm sure an epic take about how Michigan State is so much better than Iowa, right?????

[Killian]

Last year, MSU was better than Iowa. Fact.

Umm....no. But ok.

Same record and MSU won the head to head. They were better last year.

Besides, since we're not talking ND,

That's a good point. Iowa's program has lapped Notre Dame. I would be insulted if you compared Notre Dame to Iowa. Oh that's right.......now you're going to play the history card I'm sure. When we're talking MSU-Iowa, I can't play the history card. But if I bring up Iowa-ND, I'm sure it will be just fine for YOU to play the History card, right???? I wouldn't expect anything less from a hypocrite like yourself, Van.[/quote]

A 2 game difference doesn't exactly constitute a "lapping". And ND has more talent that Iowa. The difference is that Iowa has a proven head coach.

[TheJON]

A 2 game difference doesn't exactly constitute a "lapping". And ND has more talent that Iowa. The difference is that Iowa has a proven head coach.

Offensive talent, yes. Defensive, no. As for the coach, Ferentz is terrible. He's the worst coach ever. Just ask m2Van.

[Killian]

Secondary, yes.
Linebacker and Dline there is too muc inexperience. Linebacker is close now.

[TheJON]

Secondary, yes.
Linebacker and Dline there is too muc inexperience. Linebacker is close now.

Inexperience? You talking about Iowa or ND?? Iowa is very experienced at D-line and LB. We did lose King/Kroul at tackle but the ends are experienced and the replacing tackles got a lot of PT last year and were quite impressive. Our LB corps will be the biggest strength on this team without a doubt. Edds is a 4 year starter and will most definitely be a first day draft pick next year, Angerer is one of the best MLB's in the conference, and Hunter has a lot of upside at the other OLB spot.

[Killian]

Notre Dame. Smith is a great LB, but he is being forced to play out of position by playing MLB. Darrius Flemming played extremely well last year as a freshman, but he was a freshman. Not a lot of experience. The other starting LB will either be SR Toryan Smith, allowing Brian Smith to play outside, or Manti T'eo, which would force Brian Smith inside and have a freshman at OLB.

DLine has two very good starters in Ian Williams and Ethan Johnson, but inexperience at the other two slots.

[TheJON]

I recall Iowa recruiting Smith as a MLB. I remember the homers on the Iowa boards claiming him to be the next Abdul Hodge before he'd ever even played a freakin' down.

With your schedule, I think you can live with a below average defense because that offense is going to put up some serious numbers.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

bwahahaha. I'll get back to this later.

With I'm sure an epic take about how Michigan State is so much better than Iowa, right?????

Check yourself, fool. I haven't been going down that road, you have. Re-read the thread, simpleton. I've tried my best to keep this thread on track, about the upcoming season. I'm not the one whipping out my dick, at any little perceived slight toward my team. The only thing I took exception to in this thread, and rightfully so, was your laughable comment about this huge dropoff in the conference after...Iowa. That's just unbelievably idiotic. Who do you think Iowa is? The fucking Patriots?

You, however, at every opportunity, have attempted to derail with your hysterical handwringing over the glorious tradition of Iowa football by citing carefully selected periods of time to prove how Iowa is USC to MSU's Eastern Michigan.

Let me know when you want to talk 2009. Methinks there's a reason you want to stick with the past.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Using ESPN, Lindy's, Athlon, Phil Steele and The Sporting News, 2 picked Iowa to finish 3rd (ESPN and TSN).

Not sure where you're getting that Sporting News source from, but I have the actual mag sitting on my desk and they've got MSU #3.

[Killian]

They have Iowa ranked higer in their top 25 on the ESPN story that compares the five rags.

[TheJON]

I did not say Iowa didn't want to win the game, I said that they really weren't playing for much in that game

So they just wanted a win handed to them and didn't want to earn it. Even better. Nice going, fruitcake.

I didn't play on the team asshole, so that "nice going, fruitcake" comment should not be directed at me. Yeah, you pretty much nailed it right there- that team had no heart and couldn't give a shit. Their character showed on and off the field. Lot's of bad apples on that team and horrible team chemistry. They were a complete waste of space.

[socal]

Lot's of bad apples in fruitcake, NOJcake.

[TheJON]

Let me know when you want to talk 2009. Methinks there's a reason you want to stick with the past.

Dude, I've been talking 2009. I talked the past too, but I have on 6,000 occasions brought up chatter about Iowa's 2009 football squad in this thread.

I did not get this thread off track. Van/m2 came in here running his mouth about shit he knows nothing about and he deserved to be put in his place. How many times on here did I ask him for a breakdown of Iowa and MSU so we could compare the 2 teams for the upcoming season? And how many times did he fail to answer that question with anything other than "Iowa sucks, MSU is destined for 16 straight national titles".

The only thing I took exception to in this thread, and rightfully so, was your laughable comment about this huge dropoff in the conference after...Iowa. That's just unbelievably idiotic. Who do you think Iowa is? The fucking Patriots?

No, I just don't think the rest of the Big-10 is any good. I think MSU COULD be good but like I've stated numerous times......I need to see how their QB plays before picking them high. Can he limit his mistakes? And I have questions about their O-line, which certainly will not help their inexperience at QB and RB.

Iowa got some good news yesterday. Jewel Hampton is expected to be ready for the opener. He did not tear anything. I have no idea where these rumors came from. Whoever made up these rumors did a nice job because even ESPN ran with this story. But that's very good news. It gives us a RB that's proven he can play at this level. He was not a mop up RB for Shonn Greene. He actually came in and got important carries last year and did well. I feel more comfortable with Brinson/Wegher/Robinson as the backups since they're inexperienced.

The reason I see the Big-10 as a 3 team race is because those 3 teams have less question marks and more proven Big-10 caliber players playing at key spots than anyone other than Illinois (but let's be honest here......Zook will always fuck things up). I think Tim Brewster is the only coach that will ever give Zook a run for his money in terms of suckiness. Minnesota is recruiting well, but they are poorly coached. Brewster is a jerkoff and a HORRIBLE gameday coach. I saw him make some of the absolute dumbest in-game decisions I've ever seen last year. Wisconsin is just meh. They're still going to be horrible on defense. Michigan is probably going to be improved. I think it's a bit silly to predict them to be in contention this year but I can see them being that pesky team that gives the Top-tier teams in the conference a run for their money on any given Saturday. They'll get back to a bowl game this year. Then you've got Purdue....they're terrible. Indiana- terrible. Northwestern got a lot of breaks last year. They beat Iowa because of Iowa turnovers and they beat Minnesota because Tim Brewster is a complete idiot. They're not overly talented so I see them slipping back closer to being a 6-6 football team this year as the breaks don't typically go your way 2 years in a row.

So that leaves us to Iowa, Penn State, Ohio State, Michigan State. If Terrelle Pryor were the starting QB on any of those 4 teams besides Ohio State, I would automatically eliminate that team from contention. But he's got the most talented surrounding cast and a year of experience under his belt so I can't eliminate them. Then you've got Penn State who is talented and has an experienced senior QB that could contend for the Heisman. After that you've got Iowa, who returns a lot from one of the best defenses in the country and also their starting QB. And then it's Michigan State, who has no experience at QB/RB and a questionable O-line. So right there, I've got to eliminate them from contention.

I don't care what the mags are saying, I just don't see them as a contender this year. I see them as taking a slight step backwards. They remind me a lot of Iowa in 2005 in a way. Iowa had a little higher preseason hype and returned Drew Tate at QB, but they had some question marks due to youth at certain key positions and we ended up 7-5 coming off 3 straight 10+ win seasons. I think MSU is in for this kind of year.

Iowa, on the other hand, has fewer question marks and a lot of proven ballplayers on both sides of the ball. It was not smoke and mirrors what this team did the 2nd half of 2008. We've got a good QB, a WR (DJK) that is forming into a star, a very good offensive line, a talented RB, a pretty good D-line, one of the best LB corps in the country, and the best secondary of the Ferentz era by far. You're going to see a plethora of Iowa defensive players making all-conference. We really have no glaring weaknesses. We may not be overly strong at certain spots, but we're not really weak anywhere. We've got quite a bit of experience too. If you look through the Kirk Ferentz era at Iowa you'll notice one trend- if our O-line is good, the team wins a lot of games. If it isn't, we don't do shit. 7-5, 11-2, 10-3, 10-2, 9-4 have been our records under Ferentz with a good O-line. That 7-5 season, 2001, we had a terrible defense and a mediocre QB and still won 7 games because of the line. The reason for this trend is because of the brand of football Ferentz likes to play. He's all about physical football and that all starts up front. If we've got a good line (both on offense and defense), we are damn tough to beat.

Here's my predictions for Iowa.....

Northern Iowa- beatdown. (1-0)
at Iowa State- again, a game closer than it should be but we still win by 10-14. (2-0)
Arizona- trap game special, but it is at home. Definitely would be a loss on the road. Hawks by a FG (3-0)
at Penn State- Iowa owns them. This team knows how huge this game is. Hawks win in 4th quarter. (4-0) (1-0)
Arkansas State- Don't take them seriously but they're so bad Iowa wins by 21. (5-0) (1-0)
Michigan- Iowa will be pumped for this. Ferentz' teams always play UM tough. Hawks by 10. (6-0) (2-0)
at Wisconsin- Beatdown. Wisconsin is bad, Iowa owns them. Hawks by 17. (7-0) (3-0)
at Michigan State- Sparty spoils our national title hopes. We never play well there. (7-1) (3-1)
Indiana- Hangover from MSU loss. Play like crap, but pull out a close win. (8-1) (4-1)
Northwestern- Revenge from last years fluke loss. Iowa wins by 30. (9-1) (5-1)
at Ohio State- We can't ever seem to win there. Ferentz never has. Low scoring game and breaks go Buckeyes way (9-2) (5-2)
Minnesota- Looking to finish out strong, Hawks drop Gophers by 40+ again. (10-2) (6-2)
CapOne Bowl vs LSU- Rematch of 2004. LSU wins on last second FG. (10-3)

[King Crimson]

so, in a different thread JON defended Chuck Long as a great college QB (he was, as a pure drop-back guy) but dismissed NFL success as a criterion to "ultimately" judge....yet, i recall many of JON's blasts at Jason White and Josh Heupel based in the final instance on the fact that they didn't make the NFL?

two standards, here or no?

[TheJON]

so, in a different thread JON defended Chuck Long as a great college QB (he was, as a pure drop-back guy) but dismissed NFL success as a criterion to "ultimately" judge....yet, i recall many of JON's blasts at Jason White and Josh Heupel based in the final instance on the fact that they didn't make the NFL?

two standards, here or no?

I did not bash Heupel. My take on Jason White was that he was simply freeloading off incredible surrounding talent. I'm sorry, but dude just never impressed me and I saw a ton of OU games. They were always on TV. He just never did anything for me. I never said White sucked because he had no NFL potential. I did, however, tell OU_Skull many times that White would never even get a sniff at the NFL and he laughed at that.

[SunCoastSooner]

so, in a different thread JON defended Chuck Long as a great college QB (he was, as a pure drop-back guy) but dismissed NFL success as a criterion to "ultimately" judge....yet, i recall many of JON's blasts at Jason White and Josh Heupel based in the final instance on the fact that they didn't make the NFL?

two standards, here or no?

I did not bash Heupel. My take on Jason White was that he was simply freeloading off incredible surrounding talent. I'm sorry, but dude just never impressed me and I saw a ton of OU games. They were always on TV. He just never did anything for me. I never said White sucked because he had no NFL potential. I did, however, tell OU_Skull many times that White would never even get a sniff at the NFL and he laughed at that.

Chow liked him at the Titans but his knees wouldn't hold up.

[TheJON]

Chow also liked Vince Young. What's your point?

[Van]

Not really. Chow wanted no part of VY. He much preferred Leinart. He was out-voted, and that's one reason he's no longer at Tennessee.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

No, I just don't think the rest of the Big-10 is any good. I think MSU COULD be good but like I've stated numerous times......I need to see how their QB plays before picking them high. Can he limit his mistakes? And I have questions about their O-line, which certainly will not help their inexperience at QB and RB.

Well now, that's much more reasonable. That's all you had to say to begin with, instead of these beyond arrogant and myopic tangents about how anyone not named Ohio St and Penn St isn't even in Iowa's league. In most years, outside of Ohio St, Michigan, and Penn St, the Big Ten is one big cripple fight, with everybody beating each other up. Yeah, I know, you had a couple of top 10 finishes six years ago or whatever. LA-Di-da. Like Van said, that isn't helping you now. Drew Tate, Brad Banks and crew aren't coming back for 2009. You have a respectable team coming back, but until the team shows consistency, I, or anybody else shouldn't have any reason to believe Iowa is suddenly going to greatly distance themselves from the rest of the Big Ten. If you're going to take the wait and see approach with MSU, it's only fair and accurate to do the same with Iowa. Iowa has a tendency to underperform and come out flat for certain games. You of all people should know this. So until I see that Ferentz has instilled a refreshed, toughened attitude within the program, sorry, I'm not jumping on the Iowa bandwagon anytime soon. You add all that to the fact they have a VERY difficult Big Ten schedule, and there's just no valid reason to believe they're going to sail.

Iowa got some good news yesterday. Jewel Hampton is expected to be ready for the opener. He did not tear anything. I have no idea where these rumors came from. Whoever made up these rumors did a nice job because even ESPN ran with this story. But that's very good news. It gives us a RB that's proven he can play at this level. He was not a mop up RB for Shonn Greene. He actually came in and got important carries last year and did well. I feel more comfortable with Brinson/Wegher/Robinson as the backups since they're inexperienced.

That is good news. I hate to see key starters go down from other teams. It waters down the competition, and it's difficult to measure the strength of your team when they beat a team with significant injuries.

I find the rest of your take to be pretty reasonable. I will submit to you that MSU doesn't have nearly as many question marks as you seem to believe. I know ultimately the mags don't mean shite, but there's a reason many, if not most of those mags are ranking MSU ahead of Iowa, and it's because they've done their homework. MSU will be an all-around improved team, a deeper team, and much better and more experienced on defense, which is the key thing. The offense should be much more open, more fluid, and way less predictable, despite some marquee losses at two of the skill positions. As great as Ringer was as an individual performer, it was the coaches' overconfidence in him that led to offensive droughts. The offense became stale and overly predictable. Experience is important, but so is depth and versatility, as it forces defenses to stay honest.

But none of these forecasts are just about personnel, they're also about schedules. You have to face facts. They're going to play a factor, a BIG factor, no matter how much you want to deny or ignore. MSU doesn't play OSU. Couple that gigantic advantage with the fact their two toughest games (Iowa and Penn St) are at home. Michigan? Home. I suspect road games at Illinois and Wisky won't be easy, but I'll take that menu over OSU and Penn Schtate any day of the week. I know you like to harp on your recent successes over PSU in Happey Valley, but Penn St is a much more formidable team now. I don't think your past victories are any indication of what's to come.

And you're right, there are questions on the O-Line, but the key guys will be returning. The RB spot is up for grabs at this point. Nobody will be able to fill Ringer's shoes at this point in terms of his stamina and durability, but in terms of speed and talent, they'll be just fine. There are definitely some RBs coming back who saw action last year, though of course none were featured backs. The only way MSU will be wholly inexperienced at the RB position is if Dantonio decides to start Edwin Baker or Larry Caper, two of the touted incoming freshmen RBs.

So when you compare the two teams, and factor talent, coaching, experience, and scheduling -- no, Iowa is NOT going to finish 3rd to MSU's 6th. Sig bets, theoretical dollars, REAL dollars, bragging rights, you name it -- I'll put it on the line.

[TheJON]

In most years, outside of Ohio St, Michigan, and Penn St, the Big Ten is one big cripple fight, with everybody beating each other up.

Penn State has been no better than Iowa since joining the conference. In fact, Iowa probably has a slight edge over them.

You have a respectable team coming back, but until the team shows consistency, I, or anybody else shouldn't have any reason to believe Iowa is suddenly going to greatly distance themselves from the rest of the Big Ten.

Our 6-1 finish including a few blowout victories and a win over the #3 team in the nation not enough consistency for you??

You add all that to the fact they have a VERY difficult Big Ten schedule,

I disagree. Like I said, I just don't think the conference is that good. I don't think it's possible to play a difficult schedule. You're overrating our schedule. In fact, I think the Arizona game is tougher than most of our Big-10 games and the way ISU plays against us (especially at home), I'm more worried about that game than a lot of the in-conference foes. Yes, Mgo, I know ISU is a terrible team...........every game but 1!

I will submit to you that MSU doesn't have nearly as many question marks as you seem to believe.

This is where I really disagree with you. I think just the simple fact that you return virtually no experience at most skill positions shows you've got MAJOR question marks. Iowa has a lot of experience at most skill positions behind an experienced offensive line.

if not most of those mags are ranking MSU ahead of Iowa, and it's because they've done their homework.

I don't completely agree on this either. Take Athlon for example...... They've got MSU 20 and Iowa 23. So pretty even. They rank the Top 10 units at each position in the country. Iowa is listed in the Top 10 at LB/DB/OL. The ONLY position MSU is ranked in their Top 10 is LB- but still a few spots behind Iowa. Now, I realize that those aren't the only positions on the field but you also have to factor in that Iowa is also more experienced at RB/WR/QB and you have to wonder if the ONLY thing keeping them from ranking Iowa behind MSU is schedule or they're just not really doing their homework, like you say. And that brings me back to the schedule....... it's being overrated. The truth is we don't really know who has a tougher schedule until the season plays out. There's been so many years I've thought certain teams would have great years because of their schedule and then you find out it was just a brutal schedule. There will be surprises and there will be disappointments.

The offense should be much more open, more fluid, and way less predictable, despite some marquee losses at two of the skill positions.

That is a recipe for disaster. You want your OC to open up the playbook for your inexperienced QB and RB?? I think you keep it simple. If not, you're asking for a lot of turnovers. Sure, you might get bigger plays but in college football the difference in a lot of games is turnovers.

So when you compare the two teams, and factor talent, coaching, experience, and scheduling -- no, Iowa is NOT going to finish 3rd to MSU's 6th. Sig bets, theoretical dollars, REAL dollars, bragging rights, you name it -- I'll put it on the line.

Talent- edge is definitely in Iowa's favor
Coaching- I'll take the 2 time Big-10 coach of the year and 1 time national coach of the year
Experience- Iowa's got an edge at key spots
Scheduling- Looks like MSU has an edge, but like I said, you never know.

I just don't see where on the field MSU has an edge over Iowa. QB? No. RB? No. WR? No. O-line? No. D-line? Uhh.....maybe. LB? No. DB? Not even close. Special teams? Possibly.

You are underrating QB experience. It's the one reason I think Illinois could pull a rabbit out of their ass and contend. Zook is a fuckup but they're talented and when you mix a talented roster with a talented and experienced QB, you almost wonder if it's even possible for the coach to fuck up- especially in a relatively weak league. If you took Daryll Clark off PSU, I think they're a 6-6 team. They have a shit load of question marks but their young guys are led by a talented veteran at QB. I would say he's probably the most important player in the league. If he were to get injured, PSU is done. Same goes for Stanzi. If he gets hurt, we're fucked. We could have afforded Hampton to go down, but not Stanzi.

I see 3 teams as contenders and neither of them being much better than the other 2 (Iowa, PSU, Ohio State). And then I would say that Illinois has a puncher's chance. After that, I don't see a team that has even a remote shot of contending. I think MSU is most definitely the best of the next bunch, but you wait and see.......you're going to have a couple of "what the fuck was that?" games. I will absolutely guarantee it. Call me a homer all you want, but that's just how I see it. You can drink the Green and White Kool-Aid all you want but you're asking for a disappointment. Your team is just not QUITE built to contend this year.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Our 6-1 finish including a few blowout victories and a win over the #3 team in the nation not enough consistency for you??

No. Cherry-picking half a season to show Iowa's "consistency" is not good enough for me. They've lost plenty of games they shouldn't have over the past few years. They've shown quite a bit of inconsistency since your personal days of yore when Iowa was ripping off 47 consecutive top 10 finishes. And a mere half a season, seven games, isn't nearly overwhelming enough to convince me that anything has suddenly changed. It seems to me Iowa often plays really strong, or falls flat on their faces, at any given moment. All your 6-1 finish tells me is that they could do either one of those things and neither outcome would surprise me in the least.

You are underrating QB experience.

No, I'm not underrating qb experience in any general sort of way. I'm saying in MSU's specific case, they could easily be a better overall team despite Hoyer's graduation. Did Hoyer's experience allow him to elude rushing defenders? Did it allow him to get outside the pocket and make plays when he had to? How impactful was his experience in all of MSU's big games (PSU, OSU, Georgia)?

I'd be more concerned with the qb situation if the defense wasn't returning 9/11 starters, including all of their linebackers. I'd also be more concerned if they weren't returning all of their WRs, their pass-catching TE, and 3/5 O-Linemen, including their best returning guy. And lastly, I'd be more concerned with the qb situation if I didn't think either potential starter is actually a better talent than Brian Hoyer. The only question is how quickly they'll mature and develop as decision-makers. Obviously mistakes will be made, but when the team improves in practically every other area, are these mistakes that can afford to be made? That's the question. With defense as the anchor of the team, and with experienced receivers, an excellent special teams unit (particularly punter and FG kicker), I'm not sure the qb will have to play the role of hero very often.

RB is more of a concern for me, though not a huge one, as it's unclear at this point who even rates where on the depth chart. It could be any number of guys that emerge. Though I think experience at that position is sometimes overrated. How often do we see young RBs make an immediate impact in CFB? If the O-line improves, as it should, that will take some of the pressure off the new RB.

Nobody is going to be asked to fill Ringer's shoes, because his durability as a runner was second to none. But also because asking a guy to run the ball 40 times a game isn't really a desirable strategy anyway, unless you're playing Indiana and Purdue. But the "we're going to pound it up the middle all day, see if you can stop it" approach doesn't work very well on teams with actual defenses. Again, see: OSU, PSU, Georgia.

I truly do think we could see a case here of addition by subtraction. I know that sounds crazy to you as Ringer was an All-American type player last year, and Hoyer was a senior qb, but it isn't at all unreasonable if you just give the concept a little bit of thought.

And again, this is all RELATIVE to scheduling. Do I think MSU is an elite Big Ten team? No. Do I think they can finish in the top 3, and ahead of Iowa after you factor personnel and scheduling? Absolutely. Trust me, if MSU had road games at OSU, PSU, and Iowa, I'd be singing a different tune.

[TheJON]

if MSU had road games at OSU, PSU, and Iowa, I'd be singing a different tune.

Right, there's no doubt that's a tough 3 games. I'm not saying it isn't. But look at the rest of the schedule. Where is there a difficult game? Like I said, I'm more worried about Arizona and ISU as crazy as that sounds than ANY of the other games. If Iowa can just manage a 1-2 record in those 3 big games (and they most definitely can), why is 6-2 out of the question? Heck, even if they lose all 3 I don't think 3rd place with a 5-3 record is unreasonable either. Like you said, other than the top teams everyone else will be beating each other up so 5-3 could get us 3rd place potentially.

They've lost plenty of games they shouldn't have over the past few years.

You are absolutely correct on this. No one has been more frustrated with some of our losses over the last few years than me. But that's unfair to compare this team to those piece of garbage teams in 2006-2007. Those 2 years were miserable and we had NO team leadership. On top of that, they were not as talented as this team. There is team leadership on this team and there is talent. I would not really say last year we had any pathetic losses. It was more of a case of having a young, inexperienced QB. And the teams we lost to were decent teams. Illinois had the ability to beat us if they played well- and they did. We lost on a last second FG. Michigan State and Northwestern were pretty solid teams and when you play teams like that and are minus 7 in the turnover battle between those teams you are not going to win. Remember, even with that turnover margin we were still just 1 play away from beating BOTH of those teams. And Pittsburgh our coaches really let us down by play Christensen at QB in the 2nd half after Stanzi had a fantastic 2nd quarter that got us back in the game after Jake played a pathetic 1st quarter.

The strange thing about last year is we had 5 games go down to the wire. We lost 4 of them and we probably should have won those 4 games but didn't. The one game we did win close down the stretch was the game we probably shouldn't have. That's how it goes sometimes. The breaks did not go our way much last year and we still managed a 9-4 record. It will even itself out and we'll improve on that record because of it.

One way or another it's going to be an interesting year in the Big-10 because I don't think there's a clear cut favorite, although I think there's only a few teams that will contend. But then there is the Wild Card- Illinois. I just don't know how to predict them. They were pretty good 2 years ago, then became more experienced last year and took a step back. Now they're another year more experienced and they've got a talented senior QB so they've got me worried. But then again, Zook is their coach. I could see them winning the league at 7-1 and I could also see them finishing 2-6. You just don't know when you've got a complete retard running the ship.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Remember, even with that turnover margin we were still just 1 play away from beating BOTH of those teams.

I didn't see your game against N'western, so I can't comment on that. As for the MSU game, no, you were not "one play away" from beating them. You never even held a lead at any point in the game. Let me correct you by saying you were one play away from extending your drive, which would've merely kept you in the ballgame. You were at or near the MSU 25 yard line on a 4th and 1 with about 2 mins left in the game. You went for it with Greene up the middle, got stuffed, and that was all she wrote. Even if you would've picked up that 1st down, you still would've had some work to do. You still would've had to score the go-ahead touchdown, and considering your struggles to get in the endzone all game long, that was far from any sort of guarantee.

You would've likely ended up just kicking the game-tying field goal, in which case MSU would've had some time to march back down the field and kick the game winner like they did against Wisconsin. And Brett Swenson is a very clutch kicker with a deep leg. Either that or the game would've went into O.T. and anything could've happened at that point. Any of those scenarios were plausible, but one thing is certain: at no point were you "one play away" from winning the game.

As for Illinois, I agree, I'm not exactly sure where I stand with them. They'll be that type of team that isn't a serious threat to win the conference, but everybody will be fearful of playing them. I'm not big on them defensively, and like you said, they were an experienced offensive team last year, but were still very stagnant at times. Zook is pretty awesome at taking great talent and turning it into a mediocre product. I see them finishing 5th or 6th.

[TheJON]

Here's a question.........

What the fuck is Zook selling? He keeps pulling these 4 and 5 stars that Illinois has NEVER recruited and he's doing it at a time where their program is at an all-time low. I know there's guys that just know how to recruit, but come on.......you still have to have something to sell. Location is not very good. They're about the same distance to Chicago as many other better Big-10 programs and Notre Dame. He pulls a Top 5 class a year after they go 1-10. How the fuck does that happen without cheating? Champagne is a dump. It's out in the middle of a cow pasture. How do you get kids to go play for a shit program at a school in the middle of a cow pasture? I just don't get it. Much like there's no doubt Albert Pujols is roided, I don't see any reason to believe Zook isn't cheating.

[TheJON]

Much like there's no doubt Albert Pujols is roided

You are ridiculously deluded.

So you don't think it's possible Albert is juiced? It's very hard to believe he's not. I am not going to be fooled again with these players. How much circumstancial evidence is there against this guy?

-His personal trainer is the same as Jason Grimsley's
-He put on what looks to be 25-30 pounds between 2000 and his rookie year of 2001 (check out the photos)
-Every other player (except Griffey, who was the #1 pick in the draft) that's put up comparable numbers to him in the last 10-15 years has been proven roiders.
-He was a low round draft pick
-His manager is a guy that's turned his back on steroids for many years (see Canseco, McGwire- they roided in the freakin' clubhouse)
-He's built like a body builder
-He absolutely crushes the ball when he squares one up
-Etc...

Hey, if you want to continue to be naive and think these guys aren't juiced, go ahead. I will not fall for it anymore. I thought A-Rod was clean- wrong. I was, however, right for 10 years on McGwire. I said in 1998 that McGwire was roided and Cardinal fans thought I was a moron. How many fucking roiders have played for LaRussa in St. Louis and Oakland? Glaus, McGwire, Canseco, Ankiel, Vina, etc.... Oh, but Albert's clean? Uh hu, yeah right. You are crazy to think Albert's legit. Baseball is my favorite sport and I watch it religiously and have ever since I was in diapers and I can tell you without a doubt that there is almost NO chance he's not on the juice. Too much evidence suggesting he is. Only a fool would think otherwise.

[M Club]

What the fuck is Zook selling?

champaign is now one of only two college towns in the states that have bars that serve alcohol.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

JON, go here: http://www.theoneboard.com/board/viewto ... 58&t=32260

[Killian]

FYI, Big 10 Media day is today.

Big 10 Media voted for the top 3:

OSU
PSU
MSU

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

Yeah, and when JON finds out an MSU linebacker got Defensive Player of the Year, he's going to have a coronary.

[FLW Buckeye]

FYI, Big 10 Media day is today.

Big 10 Media voted for the top 3:

OSU
PSU
MSU

What the fuck do they know?

sin,
NOJ

[TheJON]

Will Iowa have a winning season?

Sat, Sep 5 Northern Iowa
Sat, Sep 12 at Iowa State
Sat, Sep 19 Arizona
Sat, Sep 26 at (8) Penn State
Sat, Oct 3 Arkansas State
Sat, Oct 10 Michigan
Sat, Oct 17 at Wisconsin
Sat, Oct 24 at (24) Michigan State
Sat, Oct 31 Indiana
Sat, Nov 7 Northwestern
Sat, Nov 14 at (9) Ohio State
Sat, Nov 21 Minnesota

Probably not. The prognosticators are always correct in their predictions of Iowa football. I can't see how we manage more than 2 wins with that brutal schedule. I just hope Northern Iowa takes it easy on us to start the year. We'll be lucky to keep it within 30 in Ames the following week and then there's no way we beat a Pac-10 team, so it could be 0-3 to start the year. My guess is we'll luck into a Big-10 win and take down Arkansas State on a last second FG.

Might as well not even play the season, boys. The Big-10 media's always got it right. I was hoping Iowa could contend this year but I just don't think that's possible now that the Big-10 media says so. Oh well, maybe next year.

[TheJON]

Sat, Sep 5 Northern Iowa (blowout win) (1-0)
Sat, Sep 12 at Iowa State (game over by start of 4th quarter) (2-0)
Sat, Sep 19 Arizona (trap game, could lose. probably pull out a close one) (3-0)
Sat, Sep 26 at (8) Penn State (close game, penn state returns favor with last second fg) (3-1) (0-1)
Sat, Oct 3 Arkansas State (closer than expected, but still win by 20) (4-1) (0-1)
Sat, Oct 10 Michigan (double digit win, Iowa will be fired up for this one) (5-1) (1-1)
Sat, Oct 17 at Wisconsin (not even close, Wisconsin is mediocre and Iowa owns Madison) (6-1) (2-1)
Sat, Oct 24 at (24) Michigan State (should have beat them last year, more experienced this year) (7-1) (3-1)
Sat, Oct 31 Indiana (another closer than expected game, but still get the W) (8-1) (4-1)
Sat, Nov 7 Northwestern (revenge on the line after fluke loss last year, Iowa by 30) (9-1) (5-1)
Sat, Nov 14 at (9) Ohio State (can't win in C-bus, just can't do it. forget it) (9-2) (5-2)
Sat, Nov 21 Minnesota (typical Iowa ass kicking of Minnesota. Goofs hate Iowa but can't beat Iowa) (10-2) (6-2)

Jsc,

We will see you and your Tigers in the CapOne Bowl in January for what should be an epic rematch of 5 years ago.

[Killian]

It just shoots another hole in your argument that the "majority" of publications and the press is picking Iowa to finish third.

[JMak]

Will Iowa have a winning season?

Sat, Sep 5 Northern Iowa Iowa win
Sat, Sep 12 at Iowa State Iowa win
Sat, Sep 19 Arizona Push
Sat, Sep 26 at (8) Penn State Iowa loss
Sat, Oct 3 Arkansas State Iowa win thanks, Killian
Sat, Oct 10 Michigan Iowa loss (I'm a homer)
Sat, Oct 17 at Wisconsin Iowa loss
Sat, Oct 24 at (24) Michigan State Iowa loss
Sat, Oct 31 Indiana Iowa win
Sat, Nov 7 Northwestern Iowa win
Sat, Nov 14 at (9) Ohio State Iowa loss
Sat, Nov 21 Minnesota Push

Iowa goes, at best 7 - 5. I can see MSU frigging themselves and losing to Iowa and Minnesota pulling one out against Iowa.

My $0.02

[Killian]

That's Arky St, not Arkansas. I would be shocked if that is a close game.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I'll play.

Sat, Sep 5 Northern Iowa - W
Sat, Sep 12 at Iowa State - W
Sat, Sep 19 Arizona - W
Sat, Sep 26 at (8) Penn State - L
Sat, Oct 3 Arkansas State - W
Sat, Oct 10 Michigan - W
Sat, Oct 17 at Wisconsin - L
Sat, Oct 24 at (24) Michigan State - L
Sat, Oct 31 Indiana - W
Sat, Nov 7 Northwestern - W
Sat, Nov 14 at (9) Ohio State - L
Sat, Nov 21 Minnesota - W

[Killian]

WTF, why not:


Sat, Sep 5 Northern Iowa - W
Sat, Sep 12 at Iowa State - W
Sat, Sep 19 Arizona - W
Sat, Sep 26 at (8) Penn State - L
Sat, Oct 3 Arkansas State - W
Sat, Oct 10 Michigan - W
Sat, Oct 17 at Wisconsin - W
Sat, Oct 24 at (24) Michigan State - L
Sat, Oct 31 Indiana - W
Sat, Nov 7 Northwestern - W (Trap game, coming before the OSU matchup.)
Sat, Nov 14 at (9) Ohio State - L
Sat, Nov 21 Minnesota - W

I see 9-3, but I wouldn't be surprised to see the NW game a loss and the MSU game a W.

[TheJON]

Sure wins:
Northern Iowa
Iowa State
Arkansas State

Sure losses:
Penn State
Michigan State
Ohio State

So Iowa's season will turn on these games:
Arizona
Michigan
Wisconsin
Indiana
Northwestern
Minnesota

I'll be surprised if Iowa wins 4 of those 6 games. But to be a nice guy, I'll go ahead and call it a 7-5 season.

/$0.02

Sure losses Penn State and Michigan State? Ahahahahahaha! Iowa = 6-1 vs Penn State in last 7 games and has only lost in State College ONCE since 1994. Michigan State, we should have beat last year and damn near did.

So let me see if I have this straight.........

Iowa goes 9-4 with their 4 losses by a combined 12 points.....then returns a lot of starters including an experienced QB and their record is going to DROP 2 games? Oh yeah, that makes perfect sense.

I tell you what, Jsc........if you're even remotely close on your predictions, I will send you the finest stripper in Louisiana to your house and the bill will be on me.