JOE PA DEAD AT 85

[Mace]

Paterno didn't witness any wrongdoing by Sandusky and reported to his superiors when he was informed by McQueary of what he had seen....although we don't know exactly what McQueary chose to report to Paterno. Paterno could have called police and said "I've been told that a criminal act took place on campus", but it was McQueary who should have called the police and reported what he allegedly witnessed. The Athletic Director should have been the one to notify law enforcement, not Paterno (although he too could have), because that's how the bureaucracy works in government and colleges. Yes, Paterno could have aggressively pursued the followup by demanding this superiors take action, but he didn't. You call it "burying his head" while I would say that he trusted his superiors to do the right thing and they failed to do it. Paterno was actually the middle man in this scenario and was someone who had no practical experience in dealing with this kind of situation. He did what was prudent by notifying his superiors of whatever it was McQueary told him and they apparently chose not to call police or involve law enforcement in the investigation.

The glaring question that I think needs to be answered is why Sandusky was given free access to the athletic facilites after he was fired/resigned, and after Penn State was alerted to the allegations by McQueary? My limited understanding is that he was given those privileges as a condition of his leaving the football staff. But why? How could that happen if the university gave any credence to McQueary's allegations? That's something I don't understand and would like to be answered during the course of the trial.

Paterno absolutely had a moral obligation to do more than he did, but he violated no laws and did what he needed to do at the time to comply with his legal responsibilities.

[War Wagon]

whatthefuckever, Mace.

I can't believe for one minute that you'd defend the inaction. If Joe deserved half the adulation he's been accorded, he would've seen to it that at the very least, Sandusky never set foot on campus again.

[Mace]

whatthefuckever, Mace.

I can't believe for one minute that you'd defend the inaction. If Joe deserved half the adulation he's been accorded, he would've seen to it that at the very least, Sandusky never set foot on campus again.

Yeah, "whatthefuckever" is right. :roll:

[Van]

although we don't know exactly what McQueary chose to report to Paterno.

We know what McQueary says he reported to Paterno, and it fully jibes with what Paterno admitted during his interview. Since Paterno did confirm McQueary's description of what he'd told Joe, I don't know why you're still saying we don't know "exactly" what McQueary told him. We do. Watch the tape. Going by the description McQueary gave him, Joe characterized his understanding of what Sandusky did as "man rape" of a little boy.

That's it. In terms of Joe's understanding of what Sandusky was supposed to have done, nothing more need be said. Joe knew enough to where he should have personally made sure Sandusky had been cleared of those allegations before ever allowing him to set foot on Penn State property again.

[Mace]

although we don't know exactly what McQueary chose to report to Paterno.

We know what McQueary says he reported to Paterno, and it fully jibes with what Paterno admitted during his interview. Since Paterno did confirm McQueary's description of what he'd told Joe, I don't know why you're still saying we don't know "exactly" what McQueary told him. We do. Watch the tape. Going by the description McQueary gave him, Joe characterized his understanding of what Sandusky did as "man rape" of a little boy.

That's it. In terms of Joe's understanding of what Sandusky was supposed to have done, nothing more need be said. Joe knew enough to where he should have personally made sure Sandusky had been cleared of those allegations before ever allowing him to set foot on Penn State property again.

Joe Paterno didn't witness any abuse, McQueary did. McQueary is the one who should have called the police, not Paterno. Like I said earlier, I haven't seen the entire interview with Paterno, only excerpts, so I don't know exactly what he said. I don't know what's so hard to understand about Paterno actually doing what he was required to do by calling a superior to report McQueary's allegations of what he allegedly witnessed and it appears to me that he is primarily guilty of trusting his superiors to do the right thing. Could he have done more? Of course, but he didn't, and he is being villified for that. Someone should have called the police, I agree, and McQueary should have been the first one to do so, and the Athletice Director should have done so after Paterno's phone call, but he didn't. Paterno could have made the call but, instead, followed university protocol and called his superior.

I'm not going to speculate as to why Sandusky was allowed to remain on campus, or of Paterno's influence in the making that decision, but I've read that he was granted access to the facilities as a condition of his resignation. I don't know who was involved in agreeing to that stipulation and I'm not going to engage in wild speculation. It's possible that the university considered McQueary's allegations to be false, or at least unfounded, and thought that Sandusky's resignation was enough. Of course they could also have been trying to sweep things under the rug. I don't know the motivation or circumstances surrounding that decision, and neither do you. Apparently it's just easier to take down a coaching icon than to weigh all of the facts before passing judgment.

[Van]

No, apparently it's easier for you to ignore the actual words of a coaching icon than to admit that his shameful role in this scenario has already been determined. You're going to "weigh all the facts" until the cows come home. The pertinent facts regarding JoePa are now on record. The only thing that hasn't been determined is the full extent of what Sandusky did or didn't do, but there no longer remains any doubt as to what McQueary told Joe or what Joe did with that information.

Those facts are known. Nothing left to weigh or wait for there.

And no one is trying to say that JoePa is as guilty as McQueary, much less Sandusky. Where JoePa is more guilty than McQueary, however, is in the way he handled the issue of Sandusky's continued presence on the Penn State campus. JoePa had both the power and obligation to prevent that. McQueary didn't.

[Mace]

No, apparently it's easier for you to ignore the actual words of a coaching icon than to admit that his shameful role in this scenario has already been determined. You're going to "weigh all the facts" until the cows come home. The pertinent facts regarding JoePa are now on record. The only thing that hasn't been determined is the full extent of what Sandusky did or didn't do, but there no longer remains any doubt as to what McQueary told Joe or what Joe did with that information.

Those facts are known. Nothing left to weigh or wait for there.

I guess I'll have to tell you for the third fucking time that I haven't seen the interview, with the exception of a few excerpts, and have not seen where Paterno says what McQueary told him.

And no one is trying to say that JoePa is as guilty as McQueary, much less Sandusky. Where JoePa is more guilty than McQueary, however, is in the way he handled the issue of Sandusky's continued presence on the Penn State campus. JoePa had both the power and obligation to prevent that. McQueary didn't.

Sorry, I guess I've also missed the part where Paterno drew up the agreement regarding Sandusky leaving the coaching staff and giving him access to the athletic complex.

[Van]

Apparently you also missed the part where Joe Paterno ran that athletic complex, and if Joe says you're gone, you're gone. Joe could've made it happen, and didn't.

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

I guess I'll have to tell you for the third fucking time that I haven't seen the interview, with the exception of a few excerpts, and have not seen where Paterno says what McQueary told him.

Seems odd since you're so dead set on "weighing all the facts."

If you aren't convinced by now of Joe Pa's culpability, you simply don't want to be convinced. You want to hang onto this romantic notion that the icon, Joe Paterno, was this pillar of integrity through to the end. Sorry, but not everything has a fairy tale ending. Suck it up and accept it.

[Mace]

I guess I'll have to tell you for the third fucking time that I haven't seen the interview, with the exception of a few excerpts, and have not seen where Paterno says what McQueary told him.

Seems odd since you're so dead set on "weighing all the facts."

If you aren't convinced by now of Joe Pa's culpability, you simply don't want to be convinced. You want to hang onto this romantic notion that the icon, Joe Paterno, was this pillar of integrity through to the end. Sorry, but not everything has a fairy tale ending. Suck it up and accept it.

Pretty hard to weigh all of the facts when I haven't seen them. What part of that don't you understand?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

So instead of getting your ass kicked up and down this thread, why don't you get to it?

[M Club]

My dick is a #2 paper clip.
Sand fucking is a Peterbuilt without an oil filter.
Bastard purpose - bait
My cracker pits Elvis on fuck.
Butthole - the wonder fritter.

There ya go, M. You just do that, buddy. Whatever you say. Hey man - it's YOUR world - we only live in it!

this is pretty solid comedy. you ever consider stand up?

[MgoBlue-LightSpecial]

you ever consider stand up?

He has, but crane rental is pretty expensive.

[M Club]

that didn't take you four days to think up?