Sick People

[Diego in Seattle]

The blue & shaded areas have been taken back.

[Truman]

"To the Victors go the spoils."

So what's the issue?

Only a handful of articles from the UN Charter, of which the U.S. is a signatory.
You know, the same articles you used to build a coalition against Saddam during the Gulf War when he invaded Kuwait.

At least withdraw from the United Nations and be spared the hypocrite label.

...because you know how America HATES being labled...

Not a bad idea, though. The UN was the love-child of one FDR, a noted socialist liberal who bartered the capture of Berlin and 50 years of Eastern European opression to Stalin in exchange for the Sovs participation.

UN Articles are nice, Marty, but we were going to Kuwait anyway, with or without their blessing. Of course you have ready-at-hand, numerous examples of United Nations decisions that have deterred American foreign policy…

Felchco isn't a "lefty".

Leftist, anarchist... I'm sure there's a distinction there that only you, Phibes, and a hand-full of others can appreciate.

Regardless, L-Ted (as in Kazcynski) is nuttier than a bag-lady with a double-wide full of cats...

[Truman]

The blue & shaded areas have been taken back.

Not so fast, Amigo. It isn't Atzlan yet...

[The Seer]

Felchco isn't a "lefty".
In fact, he has more in common with you, Van and mvscal than with me.

You ARE trying to stimulate discussion in here....L-Tard the conservative....nope, don't think so...he's all urine.

[lovebuzz]

Practical experience has also changed my way of thinking. As I come to learn how you play these things, I'm figuring out that I have no interest in deferring to your passive-aggressive quirks. Instead, I'll just continue to be straight with you. If you have a problem with that, I'll let you worry about it. I'll be happy to provide any sort of clarification you ever desire, but I'm not going to walk on eggshells around you. It's a two-way street, and you'll simply need to learn to take what you give.

I prefer straight vs. eggshells, and operate accordingly. I've always been able to "take" that which I dish.
Rather thought you knew this and certainly suspected as much about you. If I didn't we wouldn't be friends.
I dragged you into the circle of trust, remember ?

And correct. Repetition only becomes necessary when you insist on stamping your feet and calling names rather than simply admit you were wrong.

childish antics aren't my bag and am somewhat surprised that you perceive me this way considering that you probably know more about me (as a person) than anyone else around here.

I do, obviously, or I wouldn't ask for them.

gotcha.

I used that term specifically because it's yours. Duh.

twatwaffle

So I've gathered, and I'm no longer going to worry about it.

good idea. worrying is a waste of time.

I will remind you about pots and kettles. So?

Dunno. Again, probably comes down to perception. I'm not lonely or miserable (quite the opposite, actually) and I certainly don't want you to be either.

Wrong. I was clearly unaware of your intent, which I stated in no uncertain terms. Rather than risk assuming incorrectly, I figured I'd just ask you for clarification. The fact that you immediately became defensive about it is entirely on you.

The level of emotion that you seem to think exists in my posts in this thread isn't there. Sorry to disappoint.
When my emotions kick into overdrive, i'd wager that it's obvious and then some.

Again...I don't care. You will do as you wish, and so will I. Period.

you care enough to dissect my posts.

You live for those Chat indescretions, and I didn't merely try to capitalize on them, I fully indulged myself in your latest episode.

All I can say is keep 'em coming.

Definite overstatement. I live for many reasons. Chat indiscretions (while rather fun) would not rank on that list.
I don't have episodes. I am myself, enjoy the banter, approximately 87% of Smackie's music and the ability to kick back and let loose amongst fliends.

ps: all of this c & p-ing makes my head hurt. let's get back to regularly scheduled prgramming. you know, grunting and like, 3 word posts and shit.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Felchco isn't a "lefty".
In fact, he has more in common with you, Van and mvscal than with me.

You ARE trying to stimulate discussion in here....L-Tard the conservative....nope, don't think so...he's all urine.

Felchco is as isolationist and nationalist as many of the other "big guns" on this board.
In his own fever-brained way, he's trying to "save" America from what he considers a perilous course. That is in no way indistinguishable a position to the likes of me, Phibes etc than mvscal's "muscular Wilsonianism". The fact that mv is a sociopath is of little relevance.

I, on the other hand, welcome your country's hasty collapse.

Faster, please.

[Van]

Nick and Marty are entirely similar in that all they offer are smug denigrations. They merrily point out evil as they perceive it, but they never propose any alternatives. Marty espouses nothing, and Nick only spouts off against the Neocons/Zionazis/false race-staters, etc. Clear the decks and give them what they want, and they would be lost.

They don't actually want anything. They're entirely content just to sit back and safely throw stones. They're Edward G. Robinson in The Ten Commandments, only less amusing and with shittier Brooklyn cab driver accents.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Marty espouses nothing...

The foundation of Anarcho-Syndicalism.

Precisely.

[LTS TRN 2]

What a pathetic bunch of frauds and cowards. You don't even dare to actually face the facts--and in stead waste your time attacking me.

As predictable as the tide, frisco will get around to this place in his rotation and scatter a post here and there that is devoid of fact and completely ingnoring history, only to have those in here with the patience (mvscal, 88, van, etc), to again expose his revisionist ideas of the past. Signficantly bludgeoned again and again like a whack-a-mole, he'll still re-appear with the durability of a timex, hoping his national enquirer headlines get the naive to buy a copy.

Fortunately for him, the occasional lefty invigorated from sign carrying at some "free mumia" rally, will carry his water until they too have historical facts rammed down their throats and "move on" to the widespread carnage of second hand smoke.

Let the cycle continue....

Okay, let's see you back that up. Show me how the Lavon Affair is "revisionist" history.

Let's hear how anything BUT the United Nations bestowed legitimacy upon the Zionist state.

Let's see one example of Mall Cop or Trupid or anyone actually refuting my assertions.

Let's hear someone actually dispute the stranglehold upon our congress by AIPAC.

Let's see any evidence whatsoever that B-Juice (that's short for "bris juice," the beverage of choice by mohels everywhere), whom you call "Marty," is actually from Canada at all--or has any discernable views on politics or anything else.

Let's hear someone defend the hysterical push for a war against Iran by Bibi and his Likud.

Let's hear someone defend the basic principal of Zionism in the first place.


You see, you guys are fake, scared, weak in your ability to actually marshal an argument, and lazy when it comes to trying.

And yes, you disgust me.

[Van]

Following the dual Soviet/Nazi holocausts of the Jews, Israel had to be created...and it had to be created there.

Get over it.

In fact, just be happy that Israel doesn't do as every other overwhelmingly powerful nation in a given region has done throughout history. If Israel was like _______ they would simply annex every disputed territory and formally declare it their own, once and for all, and there would be no bargaining with the defeated. The losers would have to get along or get the fuck out, and that would be that.

[LTS TRN 2]

What, are you kidding? That's your actual analysis of the formation of the Zionist state? The Holocaust demanded it? And...the fact that the Zionists worked hand in glove with the Nazis--regarding not the Germans, but the British as the enemy up until 1944? Do you know anything about the Kastner Affair? Yeah, lots of extremely embarrassing affairs concerning the formation of the race-state experiment. And we notice you completely ignore the Lavon Affair--what, was that just an exception? A few rogue enthusiasts? You're completely hiding in regard to the actual record of shockingly duplicitous and murderous actions which comprise the spine of Israel's brief history.

As for your (non) argument that Israel is somehow benevolent in its subjugating dominance, this is perverse at best. And you offer nothing even close to an example of what you're suggesting--in fact you left it blank. What, are you trying to compare the U.N. sanctioned Zionist entity to...Imperial Japan in 1933? Are you really such a fake? Of course the Zionazis know they can't act as ruthlessly as Bibi's dad would want. They know they have to proceed slowly (another settlement, another seized aquifer, another year of crushing poverty imposed upon the Palestinians). And they have been open concerning this policy of slow strangulation, just as they are desperate as to their untenable future-- an artificial modern apartheid bunker in the middle of the Arab world.

You seem to extend the Zionazi state the sort admiration reserved for huddled weaklings projecting onto a powerful champion. As though it's acting how the U.S. used to be around 1950 or so. But this is a drastic mistake.

If you can't face the basic facts of Israel's basic crimes, at least try and deal with the fact of AIPAC completely controlling our congress. What's really wrong with you?

[Van]

Nick, your basic understanding of how the world really works is that of a four-year-old, so let me dumb it all the way down for you, exactly as Truman and many others have done so many times over the years...

To the victor belong the spoils.

Whether you're talking Alexander, the Romans, the Mongols, the Czars, the Huns, Napoleon, the Brits, or even the colonial Americans who were victorious in their conflicts with the Native Americans and Mexicans, those nations that win wars always decide their own borders while also dictating terms to the defeated.

Israel could have easily done the same after twice fending off attacks by her crazed neighbors, and every other victorious nation in history would have redrawn the map to their liking. Instead, Israel continues to take potshots from these reckless morons.

If Israel were any other victorious nation in history, she would have taken the entirety of the West Bank, the Golan Heights and the Gaza Strip, knowing there wasn't a damn thing anyone could've done to stop it. Following two unprovoked attacks, Israel would have been entirely within a sovereign nation's right to do so, and that's exactly what should have happened. Once the borders were secured, the next step would have been to expel every militant Arab who continued to seek the destruction of the State of Israel.

Basic stuff, Nick. Throughout history that's how it's always worked, and even to this day that's exactly how any sovereign nation would respond to attacks by weaker neighbors.

Sorry if you disagree with the rules, but them's the rules. Israel is cutting your side an unprecedented amount of slack, but you're too much of a bleeding ingrate to see it.

[LTS TRN 2]

Well, no Holocaust, no Zionist state, period. What do you know about Kastner, K.C.? Well let me give you a little picture...

Kastner, a Hungarian doctor and leader in the local Zionist movement worked closely with Eichmann in establishing a Jewish state in Palestine. Isn't that a weird and unbelievable assertion? No, because they both wanted exactly the same thing--all Jews out of Europe. Eichmann had visited Jerusalem in the previous years, meeting with Zionist leaders there. So, when the trains got rolling for Aushwitz, Kastner and Eichmann made a deal--Kastner would organize and facilitate the rounding up and deporting of Hungary's Jews in return for allowing a handpicked 1,700 or so Jews to leave surreptitously for Palestine. Kastner delivered about 400,000 compliant Jews to Aushwitz. After the war when his actions were revealed, the nascent "democracy" of Israel felt an obvious obligation to put Kastner on trial. The judge, in an astonishing admission, declared that while the evidence of Kastner's guilt was clear, so was the implication of the entire Zioniost movement being similarly amoral--and he sealed any official condemnation and basically let Kastner go free. Kastner was promptly killed by the Mossad.
Subsequent damage control by the Zionazis suggest that the 1,700 Jews who escaped bought their way onto the train. In fact they were picked as hearty pioneer types for starting the new race-state. The parents of the KISS bass player Gene Simmons were on that train. Go figure.


So, yes, the Zionists did indeed facilitate the Holocaust under the dire and ruthless equation of forcing the world's hand to help their demented agenda. And this is exactly what's occurred.

Now, K.C., tell us a bit of how you feel about the influence of AIPAC on your government. C'mon, step up.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Nick thinks the Jews conspired to create the Holocaust for the end result of a small tract in Southwest Asia


Priceless

Jewish agencies in America and Britain actively conspired to turn away Holocaust survivors for the exact purpose of colonising Palestine.
This isn't even debatable.

[Van]

Turning away Holocaust survivors isn't the same thing as creating the Holocaust.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Turning away Holocaust survivors isn't the same thing as creating the Holocaust.

Felchco didn't actually say that Jews helped create the Holocuast, but I disagree with his assertion that they facilitated it.

[LTS TRN 2]

And just what part of that account differs with mine? As usual, K.C., you don't really say jack shit. And what about AIPAC? What are you fronting?

And Van, your tedious suggestion that "to the victors go the spoils" is total bullshit on every level. The Zionist government has always depended on American political and financial support. Okay? It's not Rome. Now to keep that giant welfare trough full and flowing they've had to make real efforts at appearing to be a democratic nation which presumably respects human rights, etc. Okay? The option of acting like Attila and the Huns has never been an option--even though we've seen them act that way on several occasions. Why don't you see this plainly. They've always had to hide and lie and murder in secret, stab America in the back in secret, and blackmail our government rather directly. None of this is even in the area of dispute. Do you really have any solid argument on anything?

[Truman]

Let's hear how anything BUT the United Nations bestowed legitimacy upon the Zionist state.

Let's see one example of Mall Cop or Trupid or anyone actually refuting my assertions.

Too easy.

The British Mandate expired on May 14, 1948 at 12:00 midnight Palestine time and the state of Israel was born. Just eleven minutes later, USA recognized the new state.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_indepe ... ion_us.php

It's also referenced in Truman's biography, "Truman."

Kill yourself.

[Dr_Phibes]

Sorry if you disagree with the rules, but them's the rules.

Not quite, the rules are set out in the Geneva and Hague conventions. While frequently abused, it has slightly more authority than the law of the jungle. It is an illegal act to hold foreign land seized by military conquest.
You can mumble away in a court about lions eating giraffes or whatever, you won't get very far.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

You can mumble away in a court about lions eating giraffes or whatever...

"What if they were gay lions trying to force abortions on giraffes?"

Sincerely, jsc

[Van]

Phibes, those weren't foreign lands. They were disputed territories located on/within the vaguely defined borders of Israel. Had Israel simply taken them following the second attack in 1973 those territories would have no longer been disputed. They would have been Israel's and Israel's alone, as part of the spoils of war unjustly committed against them. The U.N. would have had nary a peep to say about it.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

So if a mugger shoots you in the face and takes your wallet, those are "the spoils of war"?

I'm pretty sure you don't want to live in the reality you're advocating.

[Dr_Phibes]

Israel's borders are quite specific, the UN has quite a bit to say about. 'The spoils of war' isn't recognised in law, particularly regarding pre-emptive attacks. There's a list of resolutions against it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... ing_Israel

[Van]

So if a mugger shoots you in the face and takes your wallet, those are "the spoils of war"?

I'm pretty sure you don't want to live in the reality you're advocating.

Nation states aren't muggers, land isn't a wallet, and we have always lived in that reality. Israel's willingness to sit idly by instead of crushing her belligerent neighbors may be the lone exception to thousands of years of the rule.

[Van]

Phibes: 1. The West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights have been disputed since Day One of Israel's existence. 2. Israel was twice attacked without provocation, so they wouldn't have been guilty of committing any preemptive attacks merely by securing land following their successful self-defense. 3. Your favorite country's most successful leader in modern times fairly well put paid to any notion that nations may not partake in the spoils of victory...or did you happen to miss that whole Iron Curtain thing?

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Israel's willingness to sit idly by instead of crushing her belligerent neighbors may be the lone exception to thousands of years of the rule.

Jews are people of law and reason. The fact that Americans can't understand why Israelis don't just go out and slit the throat of every Arab man, woman and child speaks to the barbarous nature that is the American Experiment.
You are violent, savage dogs. The Jewish ethos at least entertains elements of worldliness and historical significance.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Phibes: 1. The West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights have been disputed since Day One of Israel's existence.

There is no dispute on ownership of at least the Golan. Not even amongst Israelis. They know it's not theirs and they will admit outright that it's not theirs.
Same for Gaza and the West Bank, more or less.

2. Israel was twice attacked without provocation

Israel attacked first. The provocation is debatable.
Period.

3. Your favorite country's most successful leader in modern times fairly well put paid to any notion that nations may not partake in the spoils of victory...or did you happen to miss that whole Iron Curtain thing?

Huh?

[Van]

The fact that Americans can't understand why Israelis don't just go out and slit the throat of every Arab man, woman and child speaks to the barbarous nature that is the American Experiment.

Who's advocating anything like that? I know I'm not. All I said was that Israel was well within its rights to formalize and secure its borders, and to expel anyone who continued to threaten the State of Israel. You know, those rote duties of national defense that any sovereign nation attends to as a matter of course.

They're entirely reasonable, and far less aggressive than the things most nations faced with similar circumstances have done throughout history.

As for America? Be very glad that we're not savage, bloodthirsty dogs. If we were, you and your mewling Canadian ilk would have long ago been forced to become fat, college football lovin', American Idol watchin' Nascar fans.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

...Nascar fans.

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:x


Damn you to hell, Van...DAMN YOU!

[The Seer]

There is no dispute on ownership of at least the Golan. Not even amongst Israelis. They know it's not theirs and they will admit outright that it's not theirs.
Same for Gaza and the West Bank, more or less.

A lot less...

2. Israel was twice attacked without provocation

Israel attacked first.

That is an amazing statement. Kind of destroys your comment about not being in line with LTS Tard. It's pure LTS, via Aesop...

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Israel attacked first.

That is an amazing statement. Kind of destroys your comment about not being in line with LTS Tard. It's pure LTS, via Aesop...

Israel opened the 6 Day War with an air strike on grounded Egyptian fighters. It was the first salvo of the war.

Like I said, the provocations are debatable, Israel's first strike is not.


Irony of ironies is that Israeli schoolchildren have a better grasp of historical events than adult Americans.

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

And furthermore, why shouldn't the Jews lead America around by the nose and get them to do their heavy lifting?

They are cunning and you are ignorant.
They have been around for 5000 years and they'll be around for 5000 more.
America? I give you 25 years. Tops.

[Truman]

Israel opened the 6 Day War with an air strike on grounded Egyptian fighters. It was the first salvo of the war.

Like I said, the provocations are debatable, Israel's first strike is not.

Outnumbered almost three-to-one, it was a brilliant pre-emptive strike designed to even the playing field against an enemy with four infantry, two armored, and one mechanized division that had mobilized to within spitting distance of the IDF. That provocation is NOT debatable.

[Truman]

Israel's borders are quite specific, the UN has quite a bit to say about. 'The spoils of war' isn't recognised in law, particularly regarding pre-emptive attacks. There's a list of resolutions against it:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Un ... ing_Israel

So Sadam was poised to return Kuwait after hostilities ceased. Gotcha.

[LTS TRN 2]

Israel's willingness to sit idly by instead of crushing her belligerent neighbors may be the lone exception to thousands of years of the rule.

Jews are people of law and reason. The fact that Americans can't understand why Israelis don't just go out and slit the throat of every Arab man, woman and child speaks to the barbarous nature that is the American Experiment.
You are violent, savage dogs. The Jewish ethos at least entertains elements of worldliness and historical significance.

This is categorically the most revealing--and completely bullshit--statement the nic known as Martyred has rendered.

Jews are a people of lawyers, first of all..

Hi, I've defended Claus Von Bulow, OJ, lots of sinister NY mobsters, and most of all the biggest crime racket in the history of our planet, "Israel"..


Next, notice how b-juice actually writes a sentence of this utter nonsense..

The fact that Americans can't understand why Israelis don't just go out and slit the throat of every Arab man, woman and child speaks to the barbarous nature that is the American Experiment.

Okay? This doesn't even presume to make grammatical sense, let alone any sort of coherency on any other level.

As for the ethos of "the Jews" (B-juice never says anything as to what this might be), this certainly has no bearing on the actual plans and actions of the Likud. And this is the reality that's blackmailing our government and fomenting another catastrophic war.

If you actually read the Old Testament you'll see that slitting every throat of any perceived enemy by stealth, cunning and deceit is exactly what comprises the Hebraic code of us and them. How many examples do you want?

[The Seer]

[quote="LTS TRN 2"]Jews are a people of lawyers, first of all..
[quote]

The paved road to your belief system.

[LTS TRN 2]

C'mon Seer, I'm not a believer in the Old Testament but I do regard it as the basis for Jewish culture, regardless of how desperate most Jews are to marry out and get away from it. Now, isn't Moses known as the "Law giver"? Of course he is. And isn't the entire ensuing series of debauched tales of murder, incest and genocide--and the tribal repercussions--all based on those squalling Hebrews coming to terms with their weird Mosaic laws? Of course it is. And wasn't the Maccabees' Taliban-like repression of the local Jews (the few who returned to Jerusalem) a clear case of enforcing Mosaic laws? Sure was.

Now...look at the nature of the arguments defending the actions of the Zionist state. Look at Van's, for example. Notice it's an attempt at a legal argument--that is, an Alan Dershowitz style of parsing and wiggling terms ("wartime," "foreign lands as opposed to occupied territory"). Now of course Van didn't make this up, it's a standard defense tact that he's dutifully reciting. You see, it's lawyers everywhere when it comes to justifying the Zionist actions--and attacking its critics. And this is more than a tactic, it's essential and systemic to MOT since....

[Van]

Holocaust (not the Jews' fault)---->the entire reason Israel had to be created. Once created as a duly recognized sovereign nation, Israel acquired not only the right but the never-ending duty to defend herself and secure her borders.

Basic, indisputable facts. Keep spinning as you may, Nick, there is nothing you can offer to rebut these facts.

[The Seer]

Basic, indisputable facts. Keep spinning as you may, Nick, you there is nothing you can offer to rebut these facts.

Like that's ever stopped him before...

[Shlomart Ben Yisrael]

Once created as a duly recognized sovereign nation, Israel acquired not only the right but the never-ending duty to defend herself and secure her borders.

If you're an Israeli, that "never-ending duty to defend herself" apparently includes machine gunning American servicemen in lifeboats.