T1B

Moving Sale wrote:You can't talk about private school profitability without talking about tax exemptions that religious welfare institutions enjoy.

All that does it put the private religious schools on the same footing as public schools. So what were you rambling on about?

Private schools.
Try and keep up.

Private schools also are not forced to provide special education programs. Let me know when a Parochial School starts running 8-1-1 classrooms and we can have an apples to apples comparison.

smackaholic wrote: Charter schools are somewhat of a compromise. They still have the teacher unions

WRONG

Charter schools have teacher's unions here, but thank goodness it isn't the SEIU (which runs the state government).

Charters are part of the public system, at least in Ct they are, so you can be damn well sure they are union members.

BSmack wrote:Private schools also are not forced to provide special education programs. Let me know when a Parochial School starts running 8-1-1 classrooms and we can have an apples to apples comparison.

You are right. Special Education classes aren't required there, all though I would be willing to bet that some of the religious schools do have them, regardless of whether they are required to. And for these kids and for the other kids that I mentioned, the public system can handle them.

smackaholic wrote:

BSmack wrote:Private schools also are not forced to provide special education programs. Let me know when a Parochial School starts running 8-1-1 classrooms and we can have an apples to apples comparison.

You are right. Special Education classes aren't required there, all though I would be willing to bet that some of the religious schools do have them, regardless of whether they are required to. And for these kids and for the other kids that I mentioned, the public system can handle them.

You don't even realize what you just said. You basically want to take kids who are in special ed programs and put them in school systems with the hardcore discipline cases that no schools in the private school system will take. That sound you just heard was a million pissed off Mama bears telling you to go pound yourself.

BSmack wrote:Private schools also are not forced to provide special education programs. Let me know when a Parochial School starts running 8-1-1 classrooms and we can have an apples to apples comparison.

There are some special education programs that are 1:1. Teacher average salary around 110K.

smackaholic wrote:
I can't speak for flyoverville where teacher salaries aren't as high as they are here, but in Ct. urban areas get more spending per capita than the burbs or private schools. Now, I will admit that the urban schools have challenges that other schools don't. And that is part of the problem. The public schools are burdened with the poor little bastards from disfunctional homes. And when there are too many of them, they drag the whole fukking system down. So, if you are poor, but from a family that actually does value education, you should have the option of going to a school where you'll be able to learn up to your potential.

Basically what I am talking about is educational triage.


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The Peoples Republic of Oregon voted Ballot Measure 5 in 1990 that started the equalizing of funding to schools, by forcing the state to take over the school funding process. This quickly took the money away from the prosperous school districts and redistributed to schools in the hood, so that all schools are funded equally based upon number of students. This took districts like Lake No Negros ( Oswego) cut their funding and gave it more to the hood schools.

Wiki quote :With this, it led to a general equalization of funding between districts as funds are now given to districts based on the number of students in each district.[2] Schools with higher value property in their districts previously could fund local schools at a higher rate than more economically depressed areas.

How Marxist like of them.

Dinsdale wrote:Charter schools have teacher's unions here, but thank goodness it isn't the SEIU (which runs the state government).

This could be a good debate ..who is the more powerful union in the state - SEIU or the OEA ?

Both are pretty formidable who have demonstrated their ability to wield the heavy hand when needed and get their members some of the best fucking retirement packages in the country.

Derron wrote:

BSmack wrote:Private schools also are not forced to provide special education programs. Let me know when a Parochial School starts running 8-1-1 classrooms and we can have an apples to apples comparison.

There are some special education programs that are 1:1. Teacher average salary around 110K.

My sister-in-law taught special ed for 20+ years. It is not a 9 to 5 job. She finally got tired of the grind, so now she's a middle school vice principal and working for her doctorate in Education.

schmick wrote:Spending 110k a year on one special ed student is beyond wasteful. If they can't keep up with the other students with equal resources, put them down.

I guarantee you couldn't do that job.

BSmack wrote:

schmick wrote:Spending 110k a year on one special ed student is beyond wasteful. If they can't keep up with the other students with equal resources, put them down.

I guarantee you couldn't do that job.

If only society was lucky enough to have put Schmick down years ago.

Left Seater wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote:

smackaholic wrote:I will never understand the liberal hatred of all things religious. The Catholic Church fukks up plenty of things, but they have a pretty damn good track record of running elementary and high schools. And they do it cheaper than public schools.

Bullshit. Absolute utter bullshit.

Got any data to back that up? I know two private HS teachers. At their religious based school the pay scale is lower than the public schools they left. However, they took the jobs where they were able to teach students as they saw fit and not teach to the middle of a standardized exam.

My mom is another example of a teacher leaving the public system for the private system. She lost some money in years of service retirement and salary but taught longer than she was planning since she had the backing of the Administration and didn’t have the discipline issues of the public school.

So besides the teacher’s lower salaries, lack of a pension, there are far fewer staff positions when compared to a local school district. Just wondering where the additional costs come from.

My bad. The number I saw for public high school here was the state aid portion, a little over $6,000. Actual cost per student is closer to $12,000. Same as the cost for the local Catholic high school.

We belong to a Catholic parish that runs a K-8 school that has a pretty good reputation. There are also several other private schools run by churches in town. There's a large Lutheran school that has a very good reputation. A lot of non-Catholic parents send their kids to the Catholic school. Our public schools are pretty crowded and very "diverse," but they do a really good job with what they have. It's amazing what some of the parents around here will do to avoid sending their kids to the public schools, including keeping an address in the next town so that they can go to a basically all white school.

All the kids end up in the same giant HS, though, unless they get shipped out of town to a private HS, so they're bound to be exposed to brown kids at some point. Our kids went to the public schools from K through 12 and were both National Merit Scholars, and the HS Academic Team was always near the top of their "league" when our kids were there in spite of not taking it nearly as seriously as most of the other schools. So the schools must be doing something right. Of course it's probably 99.9% genetic.

According to my mom who was a 30 plus year teacher at the Jr High and HS levels it is 99.9% parent involvement. She claims it matters not the race, socioeconomics, or per student spending. The biggest influence will be how many fucks do the parent(s) give about education.

mikey, are you talking well of religious schools? Why don't you know they are nothing moer than brainwashing facilities and a place for perv priests to get their freak on?

Just ask B.

Catholic schools in the northeast have a very good reputation. Sadly, some of them in urban areas have had to shut down due to white flight. There's no one left in those neighborhoods that can afford the tuition. There are plenty there that would love to send their kids to one of those schools and would if they could direct the tax dollars that will get spent on their kids, to those schools.

But, the problem is some of those tax dollars belong to B and he doesn't approve. SO fukk you guys. Good luck in your local public school.

Left Seater wrote:According to my mom who was a 30 plus year teacher at the Jr High and HS levels it is 99.9% parent involvement. She claims it matters not the race, socioeconomics, or per student spending. The biggest influence will be how many fucks do the parent(s) give about education.

you left out the sin, MA

Everyone knows this is the case.

In the burbs, anyway, where the majority of the kids come from stable families that give at least a partial fukk. But in the hood, the kids that do want to learn are at a disadvantage. They are not taught to their potential because the teacher's time is taken up disproportionately by the trouble kids.

Left Seater wrote:According to my mom who was a 30 plus year teacher at the Jr High and HS levels it is 99.9% parent involvement. She claims it matters not the race, socioeconomics, or per student spending. The biggest influence will be how many fucks do the parent(s) give about education.

I can agree with that. I did some substitute work in an auto shop class when my kids were in school, because they could not get any other substitute to work with "those kids" . I had no problems with them, and can say for a fact the ones who were dicks were just like their daddies and mommies were when they were in school. The apple don't fall far from the tree.

I told my kids that my job was to get you through high school and headed towards college, or trade school or the military. 5 kids, 3 degrees, two masters degrees, 2 journeyman level certificates. Not a dime of student loan debt.

smackaholic wrote:mikey, are you talking well of religious schools? Why don't you know they are nothing moer than brainwashing facilities and a place for perv priests to get their freak on?

Just ask B.

Catholic schools in the northeast have a very good reputation. Sadly, some of them in urban areas have had to shut down due to white flight. There's no one left in those neighborhoods that can afford the tuition. There are plenty there that would love to send their kids to one of those schools and would if they could direct the tax dollars that will get spent on their kids, to those schools.

But, the problem is some of those tax dollars belong to B and he doesn't approve. SO fukk you guys. Good luck in your local public school.

Tax dollars should never be sent to a religious school. Period.

Goober McTuber wrote: Tax dollars should never be sent to a religious school. Period.

Ok, and I don't necessarily disagree, but what would you do to fix the failing inner city schools short of throwing more money at them. Increasing money spent hasn't resulted in gains in the classroom despite what the teachers unions might have you believe. I will never understand how paying the existing teachers more will increase test scores or graduation rates, etc. If they can't get the job done now how will paying them more help? Unless of course they aren't doing all they can now which means they are slacking and should be fired immediately.

Left Seater wrote:

Goober McTuber wrote: Tax dollars should never be sent to a religious school. Period.

Ok, and I don't necessarily disagree, but what would you do to fix the failing inner city schools short of throwing more money at them. Increasing money spent hasn't resulted in gains in the classroom despite what the teachers unions might have you believe. I will never understand how paying the existing teachers more will increase test scores or graduation rates, etc. If they can't get the job done now how will paying them more help? Unless of course they aren't doing all they can now which means they are slacking and should be fired immediately.

I have never advocated throwing more money at teachers. I remember when I was young (honestly, I do remember bits and pieces) that teachers were paid dirt and only people dedicated to teaching kids went into teaching. Once we started paying them like professionals, then people could go into the profession for the money. The solution is to cut their pay.

There's no easy fix for inner city schools. The problem is with the parents, or the lack thereof. Up here in God's Country we have somewhat open enrollment, where parents can enroll their kids in a different school in the city. If you take a kid that was failing in a public school due to attitude, effort, etc., they'll still fail in a private school. But if a parent is engaged to the point where they would consider enrolling their kid in a different school, their kid is probably going to be successful wherever they go.

Solid points.

I would like to see school districts end the façade that all students should have to check certain boxes to graduate. IE four years of math, English, history, etc. Instead let's have some High Schools become trade schools. Right now most of the trades are taught at a community college. Why not begin that education in High School? Let kids choose things like welding, auto repair, plumbing, electrical, construction, etc. Then have them learn math, English, history as it relates to the trade they have selected? At least this will give them a shot at a career after graduation.

Why only test scores? Bet there are plenty of kids that can get good scores but still want to learn a trade and want no part of college.

schmick wrote:Place the kids in trade schools after 8th grade based on test scores.

Pussy.

Sin,
Robber barons

You sure are a pantywaist.

Sin,
'Mericans