T1B

88 wrote:

The FBI’s support role was described by people on condition of anonymity because of the confidential nature of the investigation.

This ^^^^^ is what is circulated as news these days. What a crock of the stuff in Goob's tap water and skull. If you take what it says as true, then it means that anonymous people in or close to the FBI are leaking confidential information to the media. That is truly sad. What if the FBI conducts a full proctal investigation on Boeing and finds jack shit (i.e., does a Mueller)? This article will then have hurt Boeing and the people who work for it and who invest in it for no good reason that I can understand. If there is a good reason for spreading that kind of crap, please tell me what it is.

What if the FBI conducts a full proctal investigation on Boeing and finds jack shit (i.e., does a Mueller)?

Left Seater wrote:Found this statement from the Deputy Director of Civil Aviation in China:

The biggest worry involves possibly inaccurate signals from key flight instruments. Many pilots with less experience depend heavily on automatic systems to help them fly planes.

Just as I said. Many pilots have lost their stick and rudder skills and can only fly as if it is a video game. Thankfully here in the states we actually require hand flown landings on a regular basis. But to many of the worlds pilots can’t turn off the automation and look out the widow and just fly. See the Asians crash at SFO a few years ago.

Dinsdale wrote:Not sure what kind of software it had to fly itself, though.

Screw_Michigan wrote:
Hey, look at this! "Shitty maintenance. --Left Shitter"

The Indonesia safety committee report said the plane had had multiple failures on previous flights and hadn’t been properly repaired.

You do know that Lion Air passed on maintenance on their aircraft, right? On multiple flights before this one that crashed they passed on fixing or replacing one of the angle of attack sensors. This caused a large disconnect between the two sensors.

That extra pilot, who was seated in the cockpit jumpseat, correctly diagnosed the problem and told the crew how to disable a malfunctioning flight-control system

On the flight before the crash, the pilots reported the issue and they kick out the automation of the stabilizer control and hand flew the plane

The so-called dead-head pilot on the earlier flight from Bali to Jakarta told the crew to cut power to the motor driving the nose down, according to the people familiar, part of a checklist that all pilots are required to memorize.

Screw_Michigan wrote:Roostard, what is your preferred aircraft to fly?

Left Seater wrote:I don’t know how I missed this before, but the right seater in this Ethiopian crash had 200 hours in his log book. Not 200 hours on the type, 200 fucking hours of any kind of flying. Or put another way this guy had 5 work weeks worth of experience in any cockpit.

But yeah let’s blame the plane for this crash.

Good god.

Left Seater wrote:I don’t know how I missed this before, but the right seater in this Ethiopian crash had 200 hours in his log book. Not 200 hours on the type, 200 fucking hours of any kind of flying. Or put another way this guy had 5 work weeks worth of experience in any cockpit.

Rooster wrote:

Screw_Michigan wrote:Roostard, what is your preferred aircraft to fly?

The most fun aircraft I’ve flown was the BO-105, the “Vomit Comet.” Messerschmidt-Bolkow-Bloem made them with a fully rigid rotor system and a titanium rotor head which meant it flew like a sports car and was fully aerobatic. The Red Bull flying team uses them. A close second would be the AH-1 Cobra because— to borrow a well worn cliche —firing weapons while flying is the most fun you can have with your pants on.

Screw_Michigan wrote:

Left Seater wrote:I don’t know how I missed this before, but the right seater in this Ethiopian crash had 200 hours in his log book. Not 200 hours on the type, 200 fucking hours of any kind of flying. Or put another way this guy had 5 work weeks worth of experience in any cockpit.

Link?

Also, Ethiopian wasn't the ONLY Max 8 crash, you know.

The pilot of the Ethiopian flight was highly experienced, too — but the co-pilot was remarkably inexperienced, with just 200 hours.

It is not clear who was at the controls when the jet went down.

Flight simulations recreating the problems suspected to be responsible for the crash of a Boeing 737 Max 8 plane last year gave pilots under 40 seconds to override a malfunctioning system, according to a report in the New York Times.

Lion Air Flight 610 crashed off the coast of Indonesia last October, killing 189 people. Indonesian officials believe the failure of a sensor may have triggered an automated software system designed to prevent the plane from stalling. However, the system may have brought the plane down as pilots struggled to override it.

During the recent tests, the simulator pilots found they had mere seconds to shut down the system and prevent the plane going into a nosedive, the Times said, citing two unnamed people involved in the tests.

The system, known as MCAS, "as originally designed and explained, left little room for error," according to the report. "Those involved in the testing hadn't fully understood just how powerful the system was until they flew the plane on a 737 Max simulator," the Times reported.

At least some of the tests described by the Times took place over the weekend, the paper reported.

On Saturday, pilots and training officials from Southwest Airlines, American Airlines and United Airlines met with Boeing officials to review updated software for 737 Max planes in the Seattle area, where the model is assembled, multiple airline sources told CNN on Monday. The software updates are intended to decrease the chances of triggering the MCAS system.

The pilots ran simulated flights using the current and updated software, one of the sources told CNN, adding that each flight landed safely.

MCAS is a key focus of the investigations into the Lion Air disaster and the crash of an Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 Max 8 flight on March 10 that killed all 157 people on board. Both jets crashed minutes after takeoff, and in both cases the pilots reported problems minutes into the flights.

Pilots transitioning to the Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft from older 737 models were given a short, self-administered online course that made no mention of the new system, pilots' unions spokesmen for two American carriers told CNN.

During the Lion Air flight's last minutes, pilots searched in a handbook for a way to stop the plane from nosediving, according to a Reuters report.

The Trump administration grounded all Boeing 737 Max planes indefinitely three days after the Ethiopia crash, and after the rest of the world had already done the same.

In a statement Sunday, Boeing called the weekend meeting a "productive session" and said that it had invited more than 200 pilots and technicians, as well as regulators, to an informational session at the company's production facility in Renton, Washington, on Wednesday.

"This is part of our ongoing effort to share more details about our plan for supporting the safe return of the 737 MAX to commercial service," Boeing said.

In the simulations run over the weekend with the current MCAS software, the test pilots used existing procedures to disable the system, while test flights using the new software required less intervention from the pilots, a source told CNN.

The updated software designed by Boeing uses input from two sensors on the nose of the plane, instead of one, and is designed to not trigger the MCAS system repeatedly, which is believed to have pitched the Lion Air plane's nose down so sharply that the pilots' attempts to regain control were futile.

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), which is part of efforts to test the new software, declined to comment. One source familiar with the tests said the FAA is expected to receive the software early this week.

The FAA is not expected to allow dozens of 737 MAX planes it grounded to fly again until it learns more about the causes of the Ethiopian Air crash, the source said.

Flight data and cockpit voice recordings are being analyzed in Ethiopia, where authorities have handed over segments of flight voice and data recordings from the aircraft's black boxes to US embassy officials in Addis Ababa, a source with knowledge of the investigation told CNN on Monday.

Pilots transitioning to the Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft from older 737 models were given a short, self-administered online course that made no mention of the new system, pilots' unions spokesmen for two American carriers told CNN.

Goober McTuber wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:03 pm I'm assuming that the deadhead pilot had a lot more experience (not to mention excellent taste in music). But this is still troubling:

Pilots transitioning to the Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft from older 737 models were given a short, self-administered online course that made no mention of the new system, pilots' unions spokesmen for two American carriers told CNN.

I've read in other stories that pilots were not made aware of the new system. How about the Southwest Max that had the engine failure yesterday?

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:41 am

Goober McTuber wrote: ↑Wed Mar 27, 2019 8:03 pm I'm assuming that the deadhead pilot had a lot more experience (not to mention excellent taste in music). But this is still troubling:

Pilots transitioning to the Boeing 737 Max 8 aircraft from older 737 models were given a short, self-administered online course that made no mention of the new system, pilots' unions spokesmen for two American carriers told CNN.

I've read in other stories that pilots were not made aware of the new system. How about the Southwest Max that had the engine failure yesterday?

Again, if pilots weren’t made aware of it, how did many of them know exactly where the cut out switch is and when to use it? Further, let’s assume they were never told of the MCAS or the manual override, when they first set foot in the new bird they are all going to say what the hell is this switch for?

As for the jumpseater having more experience, do you mean overall, on 737s in general or in the 737-max 8?

Finally about the engine shut down, that is a total non event. Engines are shut down all the time and planes return to where they departed from, divert, or even continue on to their destination sometimes. The only reason you heard about it was because it was a 737. Do you know if the overheat warning was valid or if a sensor was faulty or if there was another issue?

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 2:41 am Again, if pilots weren’t made aware of it, how did many of them know exactly where the cut out switch is and when to use it? Further, let’s assume they were never told of the MCAS or the manual override, when they first set foot in the new bird they are all going to say what the hell is this switch for?

As for the jumpseater having more experience, do you mean overall, on 737s in general or in the 737-max 8?

Finally about the engine shut down, that is a total non event. Engines are shut down all the time and planes return to where they departed from, divert, or even continue on to their destination sometimes. The only reason you heard about it was because it was a 737. Do you know if the overheat warning was valid or if a sensor was faulty or if there was another issue?

Left Seater wrote: ↑Thu Mar 28, 2019 12:59 pm If they don’t know what is wrong, why are the rewriting code and inviting AA, UA and WN pilots out to test the new code? Why are they having line pilots fly this fix in sims and real aircraft? Why are they continuing to manufacture new airframes?

Left Seater wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:54 pm Still waiting for Screwy’s take on what Boeing needs to do to get the plane back in the air.

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:18 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:54 pm Still waiting for Screwy’s take on what Boeing needs to do to get the plane back in the air.

Figure out what exactly caused 300+ people do die on one of its aircraft model. Then fix it and be transparent with regulators and the public.

I am satisfied with the current process. You, clearly, are not.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:36 am

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 7:18 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Sat Mar 30, 2019 4:54 pm Still waiting for Screwy’s take on what Boeing needs to do to get the plane back in the air.

Figure out what exactly caused 300+ people do die on one of its aircraft model. Then fix it and be transparent with regulators and the public.

I am satisfied with the current process. You, clearly, are not.

What if the investigations conclude pilot error, maintenance practices and substandard training are primary factors? We already know they will be at a minimum contributing factors.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Sun Mar 31, 2019 2:36 am What if the investigations conclude pilot error, maintenance practices and substandard training are primary factors? We already know they will be at a minimum contributing factors.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:51 pm Couldn’t disagree any more with that.

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:54 pm

Left Seater wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 12:51 pm Couldn’t disagree any more with that.

Yeah, we know, you've made that quite clear. Thankfully smarter heads prevailed.

Left Seater wrote: ↑Mon Apr 01, 2019 1:08 pm So now you are calling Trump smart. Shocker.

But if you think this grounding was the correct action, why didn’t you call for the grounding of any of the previous models I mentioned? What is different with them?

Left Seater wrote: ↑Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:59 am I am worked up because ignoring malfunctioning equipment and having a pilot who has spent less that 5 work weeks in the cockpit is how people get died.

You are just dealing in emotions. However that has been the basis for many of your posts and positions over the years so not sure why I would expect anything different from you on this.

Papa Willie wrote: ↑Mon Apr 08, 2019 2:43 pm I was more worried about the plane in the beginning of this article. After reading Lefty’s responses, I now would agree more with him.

You see, Screwy, he’s a pilot. You’re a pro at pumping quarters at a laundromat. I’m gonna say he knows a bit more than you do about aviation.

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:49 am The aircraft is still grounded. This is why we don't let those beholden to industry (*cough* Left Shitter) call the regulatory shots.

Joe in PB wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:05 am

Screw_Michigan wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:49 am The aircraft is still grounded. This is why we don't let those beholden to industry (*cough* Left Shitter) call the regulatory shots.

Then you must agree with the department of homeland security/border patrol that a boarder wall refresh is due.

Papa Willie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:34 am How many hours do you have as a pilot?

Left Seater wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 12:49 pm Poor Screwy, he can’t even understand most of the workings of aircraft, but he thinks he has bode.

I doubt he even has read the preliminary report on the Ethiopian crash. Even if he had he wouldn’t understand the multiple pilot errors the report points out and tries to downplay.

Of course he completely ignores the fact Ethiopian put someone in the cockpit with 200 total hours of flying time.

Papa Willie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 2:01 pm

Screw_Michigan wrote:

Papa Willie wrote: ↑Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:34 am How many hours do you have as a pilot?

Let me remind you of final score in the Screwball-Left Shitter Max 8 battle

Screwy 1, Left Shitter 0 - F

Again, how many hours do you have flying?