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Rove Denied to Bush He Engaged in Leak
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:24 pm
by Risa
If there's nothing to this, why is such a big thing being made about it?
Oh, that's right.. it's because it's not so much about Plame being leaked so much as the JUICIER news about the administration LYING about Iraq as a threat.
Has anybody seen Karl recently?
Of three men -- Karl, Dick and George -- who's most likely to get tossed under the bus when all is said and done?
No wonder George is drinking, again.
By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer
1 hour, 56 minutes ago
WASHINGTON - Senior aide Karl Rove denied to President Bush that he engaged in an effort to disclose the identity of a covert CIA operative to discredit her husband's criticism of Iraq policy, say people familiar with Rove's statements in a criminal investigation.
Rove's brief discussion with Bush has been a mystery for two years because the White House publicly referred to it but refuses to say anything about it.
Beginning two years ago, the White House flatly denied that Rove had been involved in unlawfully leaking the identity of covert CIA officer Valerie Plame, the wife of former U.S. Ambassador Joseph Wilson.
The White House denials collapsed in July amid the disclosure of Time magazine reporter Matt Cooper's conversations in July 2003 about Wilson's wife with Rove and I. Lewis Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff.
Bush asked Rove in the fall of 2003 to assure him he was not involved in an effort to divulge Plame's identity and punish Wilson, and the longtime confidant assured the president so, people familiar with Rove's account say.
Rove, the deputy White House chief of staff, answered similarly when press secretary Scott McClellan asked him a similar question.
Those with direct knowledge of evidence gathered in the criminal investigation spoke to The Associated Press only on condition of anonymity because of grand jury secrecy.
Bush's discussion with Rove did not get into specifics concerning Rove's conversations in July 2003 with syndicated columnist Robert Novak and Cooper, who wrote stories identifying Plame, the people familiar with Rove's account said.
Rove's meeting with Bush occurred amid a public uproar over the Justice Department launching a criminal investigation of who in the administration leaked Plame's identity.
At the time, spokesman McClellan was so adamant in his denials that he told reporters the president himself knew that Rove wasn't involved in the leak.
"How does (Bush) know that?" a reporter asked.
"I'm not going to get into conversations that the president has with advisers or staff," McClellan replied.
Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is wrapping up an investigation into whether Rove, Libby or other White House aides divulged Plame's identity in violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.
The probe also is examining whether aides mishandled classified information, made false statements or obstructed justice.
Rove is slated to testify soon to the grand jury for the fourth time. Prosecutors told him they no longer can assure that he'll escape indictment.
Robert Luskin, Rove's attorney, declined to comment Friday on the specifics of the discussion with Bush. But he confirmed that his client maintains — then and now — he did not engage in an effort to disclose Plame's identity.
"He always truthfully denied that he was ever part of any campaign to punish Joe Wilson by disclosing the identity of his wife," Luskin said.
The New York Times and The Washington Post reported Saturday that Fitzgerald will meet Tuesday with Times reporter Judith Miller, who has compiled notes on a conversation she had with Libby. That conversation, on June 25, 2003, is in addition to two others previously disclosed. Miller spent 85 days in jail before testifying before the grand jury about her conversations with Libby.
In addition to Rove's discussions with reporters, investigators are looking into a delay in learning about Rove's contact with Cooper and an e-mail between Rove and now-national security adviser Steve Hadley that referred to the conversation.
Cooper's contact with Rove did not come up in Rove's first interview or grand jury appearance, but he volunteered the information and provided the e-mail during a second grand jury appearance.
Wilson went public on July 6, 2003, with criticism of administration officials, suggesting they manipulated intelligence about Saddam Hussein's weapons programs to justify an invasion of Iraq.
Eight days later, Novak revealed the identity of Wilson's wife, giving her maiden name, Valerie Plame, which she used as a CIA officer. Novak said his information about Wilson's wife had come from two senior administration officials.
Novak wrote that Plame suggested the CIA send her husband on a trip to Niger to investigate intelligence that Iraq had a deal to acquire uranium from the African country.
Wilson said he found it highly doubtful that any such transaction had occurred. The trip was the underpinning for Wilson's subsequent public criticism that the administration had twisted intelligence on Iraq's nuclear weapons program to exaggerate the threat.
so basically.... as
JTML at dkos put it ... this article is stating that somebody -- Rove or Bush --is flat out lying, and the finger pointing is beginning to settle on Rove?
why lie about shit that isn't important?
except maybe it is.
Re: Rove Denied to Bush He Engaged in Leak
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:30 pm
by BSmack
Risa wrote:put it ... this article is stating that somebody -- Rove or Bush --is flat out lying, and the finger pointing is beginning to settle on Rove?
why lie about shit that isn't important? except maybe it is.
This is nothing more than a firebreak being set up by the Administration. They are giving Bush plausible deniability by playing on our long held belief that he is an ignorant, out of touch patsy. Next up, Rove's defense. Watch and see history repeat itself as Rove's trial will be undercut by Rove's contention that National Security constraints are interfering with his ability to defend himself.
What? This all sounds familiar?
sin
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 3:37 pm
by Risa
So basically, you think Rove is a fallguy a la Ollie 'I did it and I'd do it again' North, and Bush is the one lying on this one?
......
Isn't Rove the Suge Knight of politics, though?
Why fuck him over like that?
plausible deniability or not, that leaves Rove out
with his ass to the wind... and raises some other
questions about the administration.
I have no opinions on any of this, except that none of these people are good people. they'll do anything to save themselves. i'm just worried about how far they're willing to go, now that they've latched onto the rapture crowd.
i liked how someone pointed out, regarding the palestinian shit ('god told me to invade iraq', 'god told me to make a palestinian homeland') -- if that's even true -- that bush was probably just telling them what they wanted to hear, because that's what he found worked for the evangelical set. that's all he's been doing to anyone.. telling people what they think they want to hear ('bring em on', anyone?).
maybe he is smarter than he looks. but that makes him a weasel instead of a puppet.
Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2005 11:12 pm
by Diogenes
Keep obsessing, idiots.
It'll only make the fall harder.
Or would you care for a wager?
If Karl the Terrible gets indicted, I stop posting on this board for a month.
If he doesn't by the time Fitzgerald concludes his investigation, you do.
Put up or shut up, losers.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 12:43 am
by upstart
Witch hunt..thats all it is
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:32 am
by Diogenes
upstart wrote:Witch hunt..thats all it is
Leave Hillery out of this.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 1:53 am
by Barrett
interesting how on the day Bush speaks about the war in Iraq and how well it's going, trying to combat the really low numbers in support, suddenly, there's a terror alert on the NY subway. funny that.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:53 am
by JHawkBCD
Barrett wrote:interesting how on the day Bush speaks about the war in Iraq and how well it's going, trying to combat the really low numbers in support, suddenly, there's a terror alert on the NY subway. funny that.
Yeah, and even more funny that the Feds are the one saying that it's not a credible threat, contradicting the NYC authorities, ain't it?
You suck. Get off the stage.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 2:56 am
by BSmack
JHawkBCD wrote:Barrett wrote:interesting how on the day Bush speaks about the war in Iraq and how well it's going, trying to combat the really low numbers in support, suddenly, there's a terror alert on the NY subway. funny that.
Yeah, and even more funny that the Feds are the one saying that it's not a credible threat, contradicting the NYC authorities, ain't it?
You suck. Get off the stage.
So the NYC cops just pulled it out of thin air?
I doubt it.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:11 am
by Risa
Barrett wrote:interesting how on the day Bush speaks about the war in Iraq and how well it's going, trying to combat the really low numbers in support, suddenly, there's a terror alert on the NY subway. funny that.
Thank you.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:12 am
by Tom In VA
No they're probably given the heads up along with "We're not sure of the credibility of this data, but we don't think it's credible"
At which point the state and local peeps, consider the source. Then look at the findings of the 9-11 commission, Katrina, and say to themselves.
"We better inform our people and step up our game".
Which from their perspective was the right thing to do.
Save your W Administration posts clones, I'm not going to read them. The dysfunction within the intel community existed long before W took the oath.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:13 am
by Tom In VA
Risa wrote:Barrett wrote:interesting how on the day Bush speaks about the war in Iraq and how well it's going, trying to combat the really low numbers in support, suddenly, there's a terror alert on the NY subway. funny that.
Thank you.
For being someone as clueless as you ?
Were you that lonely ?
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:14 am
by Risa
BSmack wrote:JHawkBCD wrote:Barrett wrote:interesting how on the day Bush speaks about the war in Iraq and how well it's going, trying to combat the really low numbers in support, suddenly, there's a terror alert on the NY subway. funny that.
Yeah, and even more funny that the Feds are the one saying that it's not a credible threat, contradicting the NYC authorities, ain't it?
You suck. Get off the stage.
So the NYC cops just pulled it out of thin air?
I doubt it.
Word is (well, was) that they got the information that shit was gonna go down in NYC by some
informant in Iraq.
So there's a twofer (threefor?) right there.
And then afterwards, allegedly, higher ups backed away from all the doom and gloom naysaying about an apocalypse in New York.
Scam.
Yo, where was the terror alert for the kid in Oklahoma?
there wasn't one, and how lucky was it that they didn't
let him into the stadium -- stupid kid building pipe bombs
for himself or junior domestic terrorist, as the case may
be.
what would have happened if he'd made it in the stadium?
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:15 am
by Risa
JHawkBCD wrote:Barrett wrote:interesting how on the day Bush speaks about the war in Iraq and how well it's going, trying to combat the really low numbers in support, suddenly, there's a terror alert on the NY subway. funny that.
Yeah, and even more funny that the Feds are the one saying that it's not a credible threat, contradicting the NYC authorities, ain't it?
You suck. Get off the stage.
Where did NYC get its information?
except it's always the state's/local's fault with this administration, right? ;)
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:19 am
by Tom In VA
Focus.
Data is collected
Data is analyzed
the analysis is passed on
The people who need to know are told. Feds say "not credible", Schumer played it down a bit, Bloomberg and crew makes announcement and take proactive measures. Because they are the ones responsible for cleaning up the body parts, should the information prove to be accurate.
Why would Bloomberg do this for Bush ?
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:20 am
by Tom In VA
Risa wrote:
except it's always the state's/local's fault with this administration, right? ;)
No actually this state and local did it's job.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:21 am
by Risa
Tom In VA wrote:Risa wrote:Barrett wrote:interesting how on the day Bush speaks about the war in Iraq and how well it's going, trying to combat the really low numbers in support, suddenly, there's a terror alert on the NY subway. funny that.
Thank you.
For being someone as clueless as you ?
Were you that lonely ?
Hey man, I look at Bush now, and I keep going back to
'The Dead Zone'... only this is the reality where no one
assassinated the fake evangelical before he could do harm
in the name of the Lord and himself.
Shit adds up. And right now, people should hope that
no true believer goes overboard, Slim Pickens style, to
try to prove a point.
All that to say, no, I ain't buying it. I didn't buy the fake
terror alerts that led up to the election and immediately
disappeared. I didn't buy Osama's 11th hour appearance
on videotape just when Bush needed him most. And I'm
not buying some doom and gloom prediction of a holocaust
in New York City after the 6 weeks this administration has had.
I'm not going to buy some avian flu bullshit either.
at this point in time from this administration.
What happened to Blue Nile and the Hantavirus, speaking of?
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:27 am
by Risa
Tom In VA wrote:Focus.
Data is collected
Data is analyzed
the analysis is passed on
The people who need to know are told. Feds say "not credible", Schumer played it down a bit, Bloomberg and crew makes announcement and take proactive measures. Because they are the ones responsible for cleaning up the body parts, should the information prove to be accurate.
Why would Bloomberg do this for Bush ?
Then why aren't the Feds also responsible for the bigger clean up, should the information prove to be accurate that the feds are NOW claiming is 'not credible'?
Seriously, man.
Why should the Feds feed that information to NYC in the first place
if it's not credible? Unless you're saying NYC has it's own spy/cia agent/intelligence gathering network outside the united states specifically meant to pick up on dangers posed to NYC?
or is that the feds job? and if the feds decide it's a problem THEN they give the information to the cities?
I don't know how that works. But I'm appalled that NYC be downed and most responsible for acting on if it it necessary to act on information that the Feds apparently gave them but stated was 'not credible'.
I say the Feds are pulling a CYA on this one.
It was a scam.
Besides, how the fuck would New York be evacuated in case of some shit like that in the first place?
The largest city in the United States, and it's *all* on the locals? I don't think so.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:34 am
by Tom In VA
What's all on the locals ?
If the Feds are practicing due dilligence now, they let people know what's up and let the people decide what should be done.
Same way all down the line. Bloomberg is responsible for NYC. Telling people, gives them the choice as to whether or not they want to change their behavior. Not come to work, not go shopping etc... etc...
Again, why would Bloomberg, "Wag the Dog" for Bush ?
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 3:49 am
by Risa
don't know, man. same as i don't know why things happened the way they did for Rather ... but I feel the dog was wagged.
no, i have nothing to back me up on feeling that way. no, i'm not gonna claim special knowledge on this one. i just can't buy it though, man. maybe if things didn't appear to be in the shitter for this administration... what evil mastermind would give his enemy an edge by committing mayhem like that when the enemy has stepped on his own dick is preparing to hang himself with his own tie?
nah. strike while things appear good. or calm. when it's least expected.
Terror.
not this.
Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2005 8:35 pm
by Tom In VA
Risa,
It's very simple from my perspective. You're right, there are multiple conspiracies at play today. One of them is a conspiracy to inflict more harm and death upon Americans. That conspiracy is the mastermind of Islamic terrorists. The conspiracy is executed through a loose knit, autonomous web or "network" of terrorist organizations, organized criminal organizations and general ne'er do wells.
The Fed AND New York caught a lot of heat after the 9-11 attack. They caught heat for having information and not communicating it to each other and to the public.
Now they do. That NYC was a target in this "intel" and that the "intel" is being communicated .... seemingly better today .... and that it results in NYC leadership in making an announcement, shouldn't leave you wondering.
NYC did the right thing, for NYC. We live in a world where erring on the side of caution appears to be the right thing to do.
Harken back to the movie "Jaws" when the woman whose son was eaten slaps Chief Brody in the face. Chief Brody, in this case, Bloomberg, isn't going to get slapped in the face by a potential widow/widower/grieving parent.
No, he's going to relay the information and let individuals take the decisions and act accordingly .... for instance ... getting on a NYC subway car ... with full knowledge that they might die.
It really is as simple as that. This bullshit about Bush's popularity is just that, bullshit.
In case you haven't noticed we no longer have a president that sticks his finger in the wind to see which way the fickle wind of public opinion is blowing in order to take decisions that he believes is right for our country.
Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2005 11:33 am
by tough love
Good one Tom.
Then there's this:
Ever so often 'we the people' get to see the beast for what it truely is, 'ala Ollie North.
This Rove treason thingy being another one of those seldoms when your true masters are forced to make another rare appearance through the curtain to rescue one of there own, than slowly dissipate back into the illusion.
By employing the spin doctors weave of deceit and deflection, the beasts know full well that their royal comfort will continue unabated as long as enough slaves are kept in the dark to the true reality of their own carnal being, which is; we the people don't have a real say or a real clue concerning the what up of their own poli what is.
What wtp do get is numbing morsels of minor poli-say nothing tid bits that only lead 'em to believe that they are connected to the beasts system, and as long as the party poli-game is afoot, wtp will always remain the willing pawn.
Enjoy.
Have a nice day. :)