T1B

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:22 am**

Jon Sarceno had a nice little piece in USA Today today, offering his take as to why the college game beats the NFL.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/columnis ... ball_x.htm

This is just a portion of the article that I liked. I particularly agree with the first paragraph of what I have posted below.

Speaking of the NFL, he said..............

Too many poorly played games. Too many field goals. Too many penalties, which might relate to overcoaching. (Or, too many ref reviews on Monday mornings — let 'em play, Tags). Game flow is predictably choppy. Too many puckered coaching keisters. Parity has generated an unintended consequence — a general sameness and blandness in the quality of play that keeps most every city in the mix (except Tempe, Ariz.)

It's not exactly CNN-breaking news that the college game has several natural advantages over the pros, including pageantry and the infusion of spirit by students and alumni. College players are less jaded and play with natural passion. Watch some NFLers — they play as if they're trying to preserve their non-guaranteed contracts.

In college football, there is no free agency. Traditional border rivalries flourish.

My bottom line is I prefer the NFL, but the shine is well off the NFL for me, and has been for a number of years now.

D1 ball kicks the NFL in the nuts in so far as there is MUCH more variety, individuality, personality, character, enthusiasm, freedom of expression, and overall chutzpah.

The NFL has been determined to package it's game oh-so-neatly, and it is now woefully bland, predictable, full-of-itself, ........ and led by a group of cheating shysters to boot.

D1 would beat the pros if it wasn't a festering pile of shit itself. How many top D1 teams are CHEATING in one way or another....?

Anyway, what think YOU.....?

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:53 am**

The NFL is all mediocrity disguised as parity and there's a pervasive patina of corporate sterility surrounding the entire shebang.

And yeah, way too many penalties. I'm entirely sick of having this reflex action whereby no play has ever truly taken place until first we look up into the corner of the screen to see if the little yellow "Penalty Flag" icon appeared...

...and often as not these days, it has.

Also, there's way too many thugs mugging, dancing and posing.

Way too many snoozefest ballgames too.

I get the feeling these days the NFL only exists in order to sell Coors Lite.

All in all, there's so much more genuine excitement and so much more of an "event" feel to the college game.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:14 am**

I used to live for Pro football. After Georgia Rosenbloom had her husband murdered and aced Steve Rosenbloom out of the organization, moved the team to Anaheim, then moved the team to St Louis....that was it. The NFL has decided that L.A. is not worthy of a pro team, so I feel that the NFL is not worth watching....no territorial imperative or some such thang....bout all I keep an eye on now is how Bruins in the NFL do....

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:21 am**

poptart wrote:Watch some NFLers — they play as if they're trying to preserve their non-guaranteed contracts.

Hey I like Saraceno, but Clarett aside, that's a load of crap.
Do some NFL'ers perhaps wrongly hold out for more cash? Do they wrongly bitch at their coach or teammates every once in a while? Do they act like primadonnas every now and again? Yes.

Do the vast majority of them play w/out passion and the will to win as Saraceno indicates? No.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:40 am**

I prefer college football, but having grown up in Nebraska, I had no choice. If I had stayed in Colorado, I might be more of a Broncos fan today.

I used to like the NFL when I was a kid. My teams were the Cowboys and the Broncos. Tom Landry, Tony Dorsett, Danny White, John Elway, Karl Mecklenberg, the 3 Amigos - those were the guys I admired. I liked seeing the Cowboys win 3 Super Bowls in the 90s, but I could definitely see why everyone hated them. The last great NFL moment for me was when Elway finally won a Supr Bowl in 98. The encore was nice too, but I think my fandom was already starting to wane.

Anymore, I only follow the NFL because of fantasy football. If not for that, I'd probably have no idea what's going on. On Saturdays, I'm glued to the TV for 12-13 hours straight. On Sundays, I just have the NFL games on in the background while I do homework. I still like to see the Cowboys and Broncos win, but it doesn't have nearly the emotional investment as a CU game. This past Sunday, the Cowboys were in OT and I was more interested in the Sunday paper, reading the recaps of Saturday's college games.

Honestly (and I know I'll get slammed for this), as far as pro sports go, I follow the NBA more closely than the NFL. I'd rather watch a Nuggets game than a Broncos or Cowboys game. The NFL just doesn't do it for me at all anymore.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:04 am**

I enjoy the NFL quite a bit. I'm a big Steelers fan, and have been since I was little. I always enjoy watching their games...but I have a hard time caring enough to watch the NFL beyond that. For instance, tonight's MNF game - I looked at it for a minute, but that's about it.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:11 am**

I find the NFL unwatchable except as background video. i follow it sort of second hand and living in Denver it's hard to escape "Bronco Moronomania". i check it out if i've got some time on Sunday.

I'd rather piss away a Saturday blind drunk with some homemade chile verde and smothered chicharrones burritos or whatever.....and then get some work done on Sunday most of the time.

but, like some others, growing up in Norman, OK....the NFL was always second fiddle. Pro sports in general, for that matter. It wasn't really a choice I made.

i just think the NFL takes itself far too seriously as a shaper of "American culture"--or, if it is that "shaper" then we are fucked for a long time. and i just don't find the style of play very interesting.

and all the "story behind the story" that has become de rigeur with mostly all sports coverage is really tiresome. just play the damn game. if i wanted a sitcom i'd watch a sitcom or if i wanted some shitty pop culture psychoanalysis i'd wathc afternoon soaps or WWE.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:21 am**

Yes, thank you!!! I detest the bilge that swirls around the NFL, such as the TO dramas. I ignore those quasi-realities as much as I can.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:59 am**

First off, RACK poptart for the troll job.

Now, let's get to the main issue here.

This column: A predictable and easily written hack job, by a USAToday columnist, looking to get discussion.

Let's break this down, shall we?

No contest: College football outscores NFL by a mile

On any given Saturday. That should be college football's motto.

Come to think of it, college football doesn't need a catchy slogan. What the sport has going for it is something that can't be conjured up in a room full of Madison Avenue marketing mavens.

A wild flurry of upsets, near-upsets, comebacks and last-second thrillers demonstrated why college football has it all over the NFL, where the sales pitch, TV puffery and general buzz don't match the on-field product often enough.

How many OT games are there in the NFL compared to OT games in Top-20 teams in college, on a weekly basis?

Advantage ---> NFL

As ticket prices rise and player behavior tanks, is the NFL a consistently compelling can't-miss show? Is it conceivable that the league is peaking, even though yearly attendance records suggest otherwise? Is the NFL at risk of becoming the NBA of the late '90s?

Nope.

The classics that unfolded Saturday in South Bend, Ind., and Ann Arbor, Mich., should have had Paul Tagliabue with a New York Jets-green hue of envy. The staid pro ranks never would generate the same type of over-the-top fun we saw in Oxford, Miss., Charlottesville, Va., or Pullman, Wash.

"These are the type of games we live for, we die for, we love to be in," USC's star running back Reggie Bush said to reporters after the Trojans' dramatic 34-31 come-from-behind triumph upended Notre Dame and preserved the Trojans' No. 1 status.

That was one incredible weekend, and still less games in OT than the NFL had in the same week. Weak argument, at an opportune time.

Don't get me wrong. I still love pro football and its mano a mano combat.

It's not about "mano a mano" combat, it's a team game, at both levels.

But, by and large, I think the interest in the NFL is predicated on three things: underground gambling, fantasy league football and tailgating. Yet, instead of a new-millennium Jimmy the Greek, the NFL (through its broadcast partners) gives us pregame comedians and a "weather girl," pretending as if point spreads don't exist. So be it.

Semi-rack here. At least dude understands the ridiculousness of pre-game shows and Jim Nance.

Howevah ...

"Interest" in the NFL also generates entire economies. There's a reason that you can sit back, in your comfy leather chair in D.C. or LA or Chicago and write a column praising the glories of CF over the NFL ... and that reason doesn't have anything whatsoevah to do with college football, nor will it ever, under the current system. Let's continue ...

Can you imagine what might happen if Division I-A mandated a national championship playoff? Winter Madness would chase the NFL to the back pages. It would make the Super Bowl look like an overhyped, commercialized machine designed less for die-hard fans than what it is: a bacchanal of big-time business.

First of all, Brent Musberger would be calling these "mandated" (GASP!) games, and everyone would be sick.

Actually, what pretty much everyone could "imagine" a college playoff doing would be is fill the pockets of the NCAA and college administrators, for starters, and fuel the NFL.

On the field, the NFL isn't as nerve-racking as it is numbing. Is there even one great team anymore? Going into Week 6, 25 teams had two or more losses; only one team, Indianapolis, is undefeated.

Cry me a river, dynasty-hoping-so-I-can-get-on-the-wagon, then write columns ripping it down, douchebag.

Too many poorly played games. Too many field goals.

Too much defense, you mean.

Too many penalties, which might relate to overcoaching. (Or, too many ref reviews on Monday mornings — let 'em play, Tags). Game flow is predictably choppy. Too many puckered coaching keisters. Parity has generated an unintended consequence — a general sameness and blandness in the quality of play that keeps most every city in the mix (except Tempe, Ariz.).

I really love this, especially when they stop the clock in college football, to "measure" after a first down. Fucking weak argument, again.

It's not exactly CNN-breaking news that the college game has several natural advantages over the pros, including pageantry and the infusion of spirit by students and alumni. College players are less jaded and play with natural passion. Watch some NFLers — they play as if they're trying to preserve their non-guaranteed contracts.

True, but without a playoff, "pageantry and the infusion of spirit by students and alumni" is all college football will ever have.

In college football, there is no free agency. Traditional border rivalries flourish.

Right ... it's nothing at all like recruiting.

We haven't even discussed the NFL's image issue. I trace the start of this negative trend to Dallas' infamous "White House," a modern-day den of iniquity. Nate Newton, later a drug dealer but first a Cowboys Pro Bowl lineman, was a harbinger of player attitude when he bluntly offered, "We've got a little place over here where we're running some whores in and out, trying to be responsible, and we're criticized for that, too."

Hello, Lake Minnetonka.

Goodbye, Mike Tice.

In Minnesota the last year, we had a receiver crassly "moon" fans; the head coach scalp Super Bowl tickets; a running back carry a fake-penis device designed to avoid positive drug tests; and most recently, the Vikings look for a new stadium and public financing while sinking in a sex scandal (cue Love Boat theme song).

Now, if you live in Minny-ha-ha, would you rather root for the Gophers or the Weasels ... er, Vikings? Not that the University of Minnesota hasn't had its share of issues.

But how smart was Red McCombs to sell at the top? Zygi Wilf may know real estate, but I don't know if he realizes a pig when it is disguised in a purple tuxedo.

Former NFL player Bill Romanowski peddled his book Sunday on CBS's 60 Minutes by acknowledging he used steroids. No doubt, league image-makers cringed.

Rack.

They should concentrate on the game itself. On any given Sunday, it is hit or miss.

As is your watching of it.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:28 am**

Believe the Heupel wrote:Soccer has a shitload of ties at the end of regulation.

Number of OT games is a poor indicator of the actual excitement level of the game.

Aside from this isn't soccer ... in context, his argument is crap. When's the last time you saw a "boring" NFL playoff game that's close? He's essentially trying to compare an incredible weekend in college football, in which teams did lose or win a chance for a national title shot -- essentially playoff games -- to an average week in the NFL, conveniently without putting it into context. This same jackass will probably write a column in December about how the Steelers "sold" home-field to Jacksonville last Sunday, and call it "boring." :roll:

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:52 pm**

Excitment , pagentry, and overall atmospher- College by far.

Players putting forth thier best effort every week- College

longer and more passionate rivalries- college

Hottest babes- college by far

accesability to beer- NFL

economically rapeing the consumer to attend a Game- NFL hands down.

I do still follow Tampa Bay. I used to live down in Clearwater. I remembersitting in the old sombraro when the fans wore bags over thier heads. Still have an orange jersey somewhere around.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 12:55 pm**

Outside of the Chiefs I don't give a rats ass what happens on Sundays anymore. I've about had it with all professional sports though at this point.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:00 pm**

I find everything about the college game to be better. It's hard to sit through an entire NFL game these days. It's not difficult to sit through a college game. More emotion, more passion, better rivalries, better upsets, etc.

Nolesy, some College Stadiums have easy access to beer :wink:

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 1:46 pm**

I have said this for a while to my buddies, but I look forward to every weekend b/c of Saturday. The excitement, the bands and the fight songs give ya goosebumps. Although I watch football on Sunday, it is always a letdown after Saturday. Too many commercials, too much analytical insight from the networks and the game just doesnt flow like the college game. I have lived in Tampa almost my whole life and even when I was at the Bucs game on Sunday, I was thinking to myself halfway thru the game that, "If the Bucs lose, I wont be pissed." Thing is though, I couldnt even watch the College highlight shows sat night and sun AM b/c I was still disgusted w/ the outcome of the FSU game on Sat night. I find myslef watching football games on saturdays w/ teams that I barely know about it, just b/c the of the eletricity of the game. But w/ the NFL, there is only like 4-5 teams I can sit down and watch w/ out getting bored. I watch Primetime to get the highlights I need them.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:11 pm**

I find the alumni connection to be especially compelling. Is there really a parallel connection that a fan can have to an NFL franchise?

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:12 pm**

I'm on-board with 88 on much of his take(s), but I've got a fundamental problem with the college game.

Does it bother any of you folks that top D1 teams are 'in the habit' of.......violating the rules, perverting all to hell.....what collegiate athletics ought to be about....?

Do you think of any of that while you watch the games...?
Does it just not matter to you....?
Do you think it is alright...?

How do you reconcile it...?

Wondering.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:34 pm**

If this was also posted in the NFL forum, we'd probably have some good debates going on. Unfortunately for NFLers, there isn't much of one. The severe importance and excitement of every single college football game (which is the only thing I'll credit the BCS on) far supercedes that of the average NFL contest, where a losing season can still earn you a chance to win the Super Bowl.

Sincerely,

The NFC North

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:36 pm**

88 wrote: It is coming, and when it gets here it will be another nail in the NFL coffin.

:roll:

The NFL squeezed an additional 25% in rights fees in its last contract extension, to the tune of $8 billion for CBS and FOX day games alone. Yeah, they're on their last legs, all right.

I prefer the college game as well, but there are no nails in the NFL coffin. Pro football lords over all that is sport.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 2:57 pm**

I loved the NFL growing up, but I loved CFB too. When the Oilers left town, my fanship for the NFL was still strong, but it has diminished year after year. Now, with basically McNair the only Oiler left, I just am not as thrilled. I will never be a Texan fan. I root for the Colts, but that's because I get to go to all the games with my in-laws and sit at the 40 yard line 8 rows up in their season ticket seats.

CFB will never be surpassed by the NFL. It is already on such a higher plane than the NFL to me, and it can only improve. I don't see how the NFL can get any better.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 3:07 pm**

The best CFB games are better than the best NFL games. However, college football is ripe with dozens of horrible games every weekend.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:07 pm**

poptart wrote:I'm on-board with 88 on much of his take(s), but I've got a fundamental problem with the college game.

Does it bother any of you folks that top D1 teams are 'in the habit' of.......violating the rules, perverting all to hell.....what collegiate athletics ought to be about....?

Do you think of any of that while you watch the games...?
Does it just not matter to you....?
Do you think it is alright...?

How do you reconcile it...?

You should make them all take a little boat ride with strippers.

Sincerely, The Minn. Vikings

Wondering.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:05 pm**

ALERT: The following take is going to sound like a jilted girl who just experienced her first one night stand.

The main reason I feel the college game is much more superior to the pro game is that I know that the University of Texas will never relocate to Tennessee because the city didn't build them a new dome stadium.

I hate you Bud Adams!

I will never watch another pro game.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:08 pm**

Vito Corleone wrote:ALERT: The following take is going to sound like a jilted girl who just experienced her first one night stand.

The main reason I feel the college game is much more superior to the pro game is that I know that the University of Texas will never relocate to Tennessee because the city didn't build them a new dome stadium.

I hate you Bud Adams!

I will never watch another pro game.

That's too bad. You should see all the ass Simms is kicking in the NFL. ;)

P.S. I hate Bud Adams too.

Posted: **Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:56 pm**

College will never be better than the NFL until they institute a playoff system. Tournament college football would be out of this world but I doubt we'll ever see it. Another knock against college is the fact the games run almost 4 hours long. It feels like an eternity when you're there in person. It's a great experience but it's a very long day though.

Posted: **Wed Oct 19, 2005 12:52 am**

poptart wrote:I'm on-board with 88 on much of his take(s), but I've got a fundamental problem with the college game.

Does it bother any of you folks that top D1 teams are 'in the habit' of.......violating the rules, perverting all to hell.....what collegiate athletics ought to be about....?

Do you think of any of that while you watch the games...?
Does it just not matter to you....?
Do you think it is alright...?

How do you reconcile it...?

Wondering.

Nobody....???

Guess your 'take' is that you choose to put your head in the sand so as not to see the filth and perversion surrounding the product that you love so much.

Big-time college sports are out of whack........like totally, man.

Posted: **Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:08 am**

How come every time 88 says something it seems to be an instant classic? Very well said and I agree 100%

Posted: **Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:32 am**

Give me collge football over the NFL anyday!

I would rather watch any college sport than its pro counterpart. I would also take HS sports over the pros.

Since I can't watch many college games live due to my hobby, I watch them on TiVo on Sunday. My NFL watching is limited to ESPN sportscenter most of the time.

Posted: **Wed Oct 19, 2005 3:32 am**

88 wrote:I'll respond. I thought you were just fucking around. If you truly think college football is a product surrounded by filth and perversion, then you are fucked up in the head.

:roll:

Look, I could go any number of directions to illustrate the sickening filth that IS big-time college sports, but I'll just cite that stat that 27% of University of Texas freshmen football players entering school in 1997-98 got their degree within 6 yrs.

Student athlete....???

Buhwahahahaha.......

Hired guns (who, btw, are grossy underpaid considering the mega-bucks they bring the school's way) who POSE as students.

There is filth, deception, manipulation, and flat out CHEATING all over the NCAA D1 lot.

Instant classic THAT.

Posted: **Wed Oct 19, 2005 10:45 am**

I really can't add all that much to the discussion that hasn't already been said.

On a personal level, I prefer the college game for a number of reasons. First, there are the emotions, the players laying it all on the line, the history and tradition of the big rivalries, and you occasionally even get a huge game in the regular season that isn't a traditional rivalry, such as Texas-tOSU this year. Also, as someone else mentioned, the alumnus connection with college football is simply a huge factor in the equation. As a Notre Dame alumnus, I'm heavily invested, from an emotional standpoint, in the success of that program. There's no possible way I could be similarly emotionally invested in any pro team, short of actually working for that team, and even then, the same level of emotional commitment to that team's success is questionable, at best.

In the NFL, I was a huge 49ers fan back during the Montana era. I still root for the 49ers, even though they're horrible now, but it's clear to me that I was always a Montana fan first, 49ers fan second. With Joe Montana, the stars were perfectly aligned for me -- he was a Notre Dame product (I was a Joe Montana fan before he became a pro), went to a system that was perfect for him, the team won, and he had onfield success that few, if any, QB's throughout NFL history have been able to duplicate. I doubt, from my perspective, that the stars will ever be aligned so perfectly for another NFLer again.

For me, there's also the matter of priorities. I am the parent of two children. One is an infant, the other is a special needs child. Plopping myself in front of the TV for ten (or more) hours on both Saturday and Sunday is a luxury I simply cannot afford right now. So I'm usually limited to watching the Notre Dame game on Saturday, then periodically checking back in the rest of the day, and on Sunday, for scores in other games.

Having said all of that, I don't think this board is representative of the country as a whole. As sports go, the NFL lords it over the rest. There once was a day when college football was more popular than the NFL, but that was prior to the time when television sets were common. To the NFL's credit, they recognized the importance of television in building a fan base, and to this day they continue to be ahead of the curve as far as sports marketing is concerned. I doubt they'll ever lose their position in that regard, no matter how boring, antiseptic and corporate their product is when compared to the college counterpart. The NFL also requies much less effort to follow than does college football. Given that Division 1-A has almost four times as many teams as does the NFL, TV coverage of the NFL is far more extensive than it is of college football, at least as measured on a per team basis. Also, it's the nature of the beast in college football that every team has roughly a 25% roster turnover each year. Even with free agency, you'll never see that in the NFL.

If you were to run a similar survey in the area where I live, you'd probably see about 95% of people preferring the NFL. Perhaps this is somewhat an anomaly as well. I've said before that the Buffalo Bills are one of the few, or perhaps the only, NFL team that has what could be considered a college football type fan following. Imho, that is due to the dearth of Division 1-A football in this area. The overwhelming majority of the people who live in this area, even if you were to limit that number to college graduates, did not attend a college where Division 1-A football is played, so I think the Bills become a surrogate "college" team for many of them.

T1B

Better brand of ball, NFL or NCAA D1.....?

Better brand of ball, NFL or NCAA D1.....?

Re: Better brand of ball, NFL or NCAA D1.....?