T1B

Think about it. They beat nobody all year. They played a weak schedule. They lost to Michigan State of all teams. But ever since week one's big win over 5-6 powerhouse Pitt, the media has sucked ND's nuts all year.

Answer me this....

If some other team had these exact players and coach, and same exact results, would they be headed to the BCS? Or would they be headed to a Holiday Bowl or lower-tier New Years Day Bowl?

Besides, while I think ND is a solid team, they are overrated. I don't think Ohio State will blow them out, but I expect a 7-10 point win over Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl.

No. The unparalelled fanbase of ND is going to get them into a BCS bowl.
Idiot.

I think ND deserves to be there. They were one funny bounce away from beating USC.... and could've easily beaten MSU. Much like Ohio State and Penn State, they're arguably one or two plays away from being undefeated and ranked number 1 or 2 in the country.

I guess my question is.... if not Notre Dame.... who?

Auburn lost at home to Georgia Tech...... Oregon got blown off their own home field..... UCLA got destroyed by a sub-.500 team..... Who is more deserving than Notre Dame?

It's at times like this that I'd love to be an ND fan. Millions would be melting at my knees. Good times.

"Oregon got blown off their own home field"....

...by the #1 team in the nation, and only after leading at halftime.

In addition to losing at home to that same team Notre Dame also lost at home to a horrible Michigan State team so your blithe dismissal of a one loss Oregon team isn't well founded.

Notre Dame's main drawing power for the BCS is their drawing power, period. Strictly based on merit a lot of teams including ND deserve consideration but quite obviously Oregon would get the nod if only they had ND's fan base and name recognition.

Jimmy Medalions wrote:It's at times like this that I'd love to be an ND fan.

You call yourself a USC fan?

Why would you ever want to be an ND fan?

I hope to god someone shoots me the day I dream of being a gate or a cane.

Mr T wrote:

Jimmy Medalions wrote:It's at times like this that I'd love to be an ND fan.

You call yourself a USC fan?

Why would you ever want to be an ND fan?

I hope to god someone shoots me the day I dream of being a gate or a cane.

Strictly hypothetical, of course.

Mr T wrote:
Jimmy Medalions wrote:
It's at times like this that I'd love to be an ND fan.

You call yourself a USC fan?

Why would you ever want to be an ND fan?

I hope to god someone shoots me the day I dream of being a gate or a cane.


Strictly hypothetical, of course.

We all know Jimmy's a good Catholic boy who yearns to be an ND fan......

BraveFan wrote:I think ND deserves to be there. They were one funny bounce away from beating USC.... and could've easily beaten MSU. Much like Ohio State and Penn State, they're arguably one or two plays away from being undefeated and ranked number 1 or 2 in the country.

I guess my question is.... if not Notre Dame.... who?

Auburn lost at home to Georgia Tech...... Oregon got blown off their own home field..... UCLA got destroyed by a sub-.500 team..... Who is more deserving than Notre Dame?

...but they did lose to 5-6 MSU, and they did come within a heartbeat of getting beat by another 5-6 team. They have one "quality" win over a 4 loss ranked opponent and only two of the other wins came against teams with (barely) winning records in Navy and BYU. Oregon only has one loss...a loss Notre Dame shares. Auburn ended its season by taking down two (at the time) top ten teams. Of the teams on the slate, I'd say Notre Dame has the weakest claim and if it wasn't for the guaranteed ratings ND brings, they wouldn't get a sniff of the BCS. But, them's the breaks.

Jimmy Medalions wrote:It's at times like this that I'd love to be an ND fan. Millions would be melting at my knees. Good times.

Yep. This is the time when it's most fun to be a ND fan. I've gone to Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, and Oregon websites and they all have at least 3 threads on why ND is not deserving and will get blown out.

Good to see you can't add to a topic, JON. Seeing as how we basically have the same conversation going in two different threads.

Killian wrote: I've gone to Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, and Oregon websites and they all have at least 3 threads on why ND is not deserving and will get blown out.

I don't know about the validity of this statment but does anyone want to educate me on the bowl breakdown.

What major bowl gets the first pick?
What tie-ins will come into effect?
Who do you think will go to different bowls?

A lot of Notre Dame playa hatin' going on! Imagine that!

I'm most definitely one of the haters. And proud of it. I think it's great that Iowa has won 5 bowl games since ND last won one. This year will make it 6.

I think Charlie Weis is the first person I've ever liked and respected that I'm rooting against.

TheJON wrote:A lot of Notre Dame playa hatin' going on! Imagine that!

I'm most definitely one of the haters. And proud of it. I think it's great that Iowa has won 5 bowl games since ND last won one. This year will make it 6.

I think Charlie Weis is the first person I've ever liked and respected that I'm rooting against.

And I would rather take major bowl appearances, over shitty bowl wins. Usually means you had a better year. And I also don't get too fired up over bowl victories, unless they are for the national championship.

Sky wrote:

Killian wrote: I've gone to Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, and Oregon websites and they all have at least 3 threads on why ND is not deserving and will get blown out.

I don't know about the validity of this statment but does anyone want to educate me on the bowl breakdown.

What major bowl gets the first pick?
What tie-ins will come into effect?
Who do you think will go to different bowls?

In a nutshell, the top two teams are in the Rose, Fiesta gets the first pick because their tie-in had to go to the Rose. Then it goes to the Orange, who has to select a confrence champion if the Fiesta takes an at large, then back to the Fiesta. Sugar gets the SEC and Big East tie in, and the Orange gets the ACC.

Well, when is your last New Years Day Bowl win? We've got 2 in the last 2 years. And I belong to the "Church of What's Happening Now!" So the "we've won eleventy billion national titles" crap won't work with me. I don't care. Typical ND fan claims they only care about National Championships. No one can match their arrogance.

It's really nice to hate Notre Dame again. I've kinda missed it.

come on Killian and I am sure ND nation also melting about why they should be BCS bound...shoe fits both feet?

Jon=Tard...nice to see you take an early leg up on the 2006 Board Bitch race...

Yes, the media sucks ND cock. But they have to because their fanbase is all over the place. Same reason why if you have ND and a few other schools vying to get into a BCS game, ND will probably get the nod (with all things being equal or just about equal) because their overwhelming fan support will translate into more dollars for the BCS. I don't really have a problem with it. Notre Dame is good for college football. Now, if they were a 3 or 4 loss team and they still got in over a 1 or 2 loss team, that would be a different story...

The fact that South Florida has a chance to play in a BCS bowl is a far bigger problem (no offense Mucho).

buckeye_in_sc wrote:come on Killian and I am sure ND nation also melting about why they should be BCS bound...shoe fits both feet?

Jon=Tard...nice to see you take an early leg up on the 2006 Board Bitch race...

The rest of ND Nation, probably. There are posts trying to justify their inclusion, but my opinion is that OSU, Oregon and ND don't have the right to bitch if any of them are left out because they didn't do enough to secure an automatic bid. If ND gets left out, it will suck based on their bend-over-and-take-it-in-the-ass agreement starting next year with the BCS payout. But if they wind up in another bowl, so be it. I really couldn't give two shits. A BCS bowl victory is nice, a bowl victory is nice, but personally, it doesn't mean shit. Would ND's season last year have been less shity/less of a dissapointment had they won the Insight.wesuck.com bowl? No. Would a loss to OSU in the Fiesta Bowl this year diminish what Weis has already acomplished this year? No. It will be disapointing, but it won't mean dick in the grand scheme of things.

And JON, you continue to be happy with new years day bowl wins, and I'll continue to be disapointed with not appearing in the national championship games. Obviously, your expectations are different than mine.

TheJON wrote:Well, when is your last New Years Day Bowl win?

And on this note, how about the fucking NFL.

Do you know how many new years day bowl games there are this year?

NONE

Not a single one, and do you know why? Because its week 17 in the NFL. Course they aren't only playing on Sunday, they are playing on Saturday too. Lets just stretch out the NFL schedule and make as much money as we can on shitty games spread out over a weekend.

The results on Jon's poll are pretty clear. 79% of us think that if ND gets into a BCS bowl it will be because of their appeal to Bowl/TV executives and not because of what they did on the field.

If I had a vote, ND would be playing on Jan 1, just not in a BCS bowl. Sure they played USC to a very close game, but they lost as did Oregon. Yes, the MOV was less against ND, but Oregon didn't have another loss to a mediocre team. Yes Auburn lost to a great/horrible Georgia Tech team, but that was their only loss.

Killian...just giving you some shit man...


i agree with you...on many points...I am willing to just let the cards fall where they may...

Yeah, because I'm less arrogant of a fan. I want to win a national championship just like everyone else. You don't want to win one anymore than I do. But sometimes you just gotta be realistic. You can't win it every year. I don't give a damn who you are. No team has averaged more than 1 title every decade. I can sleep well at night knowing that 90% of all college programs would love to have had the success Iowa has had over the last quarter century. That's good enough for me. I'm not too arrogant to expect championships every year and be disappointed if it doesn't happen. Winning ain't easy. You can't win 'em all. Nor should you expect to. No shame in winning a New Years Day Bowl.

Sky wrote:

TheJON wrote:Well, when is your last New Years Day Bowl win?

And on this note, how about the fucking NFL.

Do you know how many new years day bowl games there are this year?

NONE

Not a single one, and do you know why? Because its week 17 in the NFL. Course they aren't only playing on Sunday, they are playing on Saturday too. Lets just stretch out the NFL schedule and make as much money as we can on shitty games spread out over a weekend.

Yeah, I doubt my boss will let me have that Monday off b/c of the Bowl Games.

I know, I just wanted everyone to know my opinion on the bowls.

Lefty, Auburn has two losses. Yes Oregon has only one loss, but they also played a D-1AA team. As soon as one of those teams is on your schedule, you lose the right to bitch. On the same token, as soon as you lose to a 5-6 team, you lose the right to bitch.

Well, the 3 people who voted that if some other team had the same results as ND they would be in the BCS are just lying.

But, like I said in a post last weekend, I am happy with the season we've had, BCS or not. The Holiday Bowl is a quick 3 hour drive for me, and I'll get to see us have an easy path to an 11-1 season, with a Top-10 finish.

Things looked bleak when we lost our starting QB, but now our sophomore backup lead the nation in QB rating his final game and an unsure, critical, position looks bright for next year.

I'm not going to make a lot of whining or complaining posts, if we don't get in. Personally, I'm fine with it.

The only thing that bothers me about it is that I know our kids will be very dissapointed if they don't reach a BCS game. They've done everything that they could, short of beating USC. And considering that nobody has in over 30 games now, that is saying a lot.

I know they feel they've done more to deserve it than anyone else and Its hard to argue with them. I'll feel very bad for them if they don't make it in.

Say the Pac-10 sucks, if you want, but if we go 2 consecutive years with a team whose only loss is to the national champ being left out of the BCS, there is something wrong with that picture.

TheJON wrote:Yeah, because I'm less arrogant of a fan. I want to win a national championship just like everyone else. You don't want to win one anymore than I do. But sometimes you just gotta be realistic. You can't win it every year. I don't give a damn who you are. No team has averaged more than 1 title every decade. I can sleep well at night knowing that 90% of all college programs would love to have had the success Iowa has had over the last quarter century. That's good enough for me. I'm not too arrogant to expect championships every year and be disappointed if it doesn't happen. Winning ain't easy. You can't win 'em all. Nor should you expect to. No shame in winning a New Years Day Bowl.

Exactly. You want to win national championships, I expect to win them. You can call that arrogance if you want, I call it demanding excellence. I never said winning was easy, nor is it easy to win national championships. But to me, striving for greatness and coming up just short is better than aiming low and achieving modest goals.

Killian wrote: Yes Oregon has only one loss, but they also played a D-1AA team. As soon as one of those teams is on your schedule, you lose the right to bitch.

non sequitur

This argument would only hold water, if our playing a D-1AA team played any factor in our being left out of the BCS (if we do)....which is doesn't.

That game isn't affecting our place in any polls right now and, in fact, we are ranked ahead of Notre Dame in the BCS anyway. If you replace Montana on our schedule with Syracuse, we are in the same spot.

If we get left out it will be simply because the Fiesta Bowl would rather have ND and OSU there...there will be no mention of our 1-AA opponent.

Should Iowa be in a Jan 2nd Bowl? I mean how many National championships have they won outside of wrestling?

JayDuck wrote: non sequitur

This argument would only hold water, if our playing a D-1AA team played any factor in our being left out of the BCS (if we do)....which is doesn't.

That game isn't affecting our place in any polls right now and, in fact, we are ranked ahead of Notre Dame in the BCS anyway. If you replace Montana on our schedule with Syracuse, we are in the same spot.

If we get left out it will be simply because the Fiesta Bowl would rather have ND and OSU there...there will be no mention of our 1-AA opponent.

Well it does play a factor; it feeds into the subconscious thoughts voters and bowl authorities use. You played a 1-AA team which is like facing a girl in a boxing ring. It isn’t a matter of if you win, but how bad you win. And God forbid, if you lose, you are the laughing stock. So really, you got a guaranteed gimmie (reference Auburn in 04).

But this conversation shouldn’t come down to Oregon vs ND, it is really between OSU and Oregon. ND is in a different class when it comes to public opinion so they are a given. The real question is this, why would OSU (9-2) be chosen over Oregon (10-1)? And possibly more importantly, why would the Fiesta Bowl with all its Pac10 ties pick a Big 10 team instead of Oregon? (Granted, if they take PSU vs ND this is moot point).

I think there are a few factors to the answer: you have only beaten one ranked team (Fresno), you played a 1-AA team, OSU is a bigger money maker, and they have had a better showing against ranked teams.

Still, I think it could go either way and like you said, it won’t be too disappointing. OSU had their chances and if they don’t get a BCS bowl, it is their own fault.

Who is aiming low? Answer me this.....should an Iowa State fan expect to win a national title? They haven't even won a conference title since 1912. I'd rather just be realistic than expect too much. This will be Iowa's 19th bowl game in the last 25 years. That includes 6 January Bowls. 100 of the 117 1-A teams would trade places with Iowa in a heartbeat. But I have to be realistic. We're not Michigan, Oklahoma, Ohio State, or USC. Nor should I expect that out of this program. Aiming low and being realistic are 2 completely different things.

Killian,

Thanks for pointing out my mistake. I was typing Georgia Tech but thinking OSU.

Bottom line is ND is in no matter what I think.

ND is in.

They deserve no more than any of those other teams.

If you really dont think ND belongs, then be glad that you will get to watch them get raped again in the fiesta.

If you really think ND belongs, than be glad you will get to show the world you belong in the fiesta.

Van wrote:

BraveFan wrote:""Oregon got blown off their own home field"....

...by the #1 team in the nation, and only after leading at halftime.

Jmho, but if you get blown out by ANYone on your home field.... you don't have much ground to stand on in a BCS debate. Fresno, ASU and Notre Dame were ALL able to play USC very competitively for 60 minutes..... so I'm not sure how much I buy into the whole "mighty USC" argument.

Look, don't get me wrong..... my comments weren't meant to be a "blithe dismissal" of Oregon. I'm not saying Oregon isn't as deserving as Notre Dame. And I'm certainly not saying that Auburn isn't as deserving as ND.... because I think Auburn is as good as anybody in the country right now. I'm just saying that a strong, reasonable, objective argument can be made for Notre Dame. Might they get a better look because of their national pull, etc.? Sure. But all that aside, they're a very good football team that is as deserving of a BCS game as anyone not named USC or Texas. Their defense has left a lot to be desired at times..... but, Brady Quinn is a top-five pick.... Darious Walker is a monster.... They've got two of the top 15 receivers in the country. They have a solid O line. It's just a flat-out potent offense... directed by one of the great offensive minds in recent history. They've done a lot more than just "be Notre Dame" to deserve this bid.

Van wrote:

BraveFan wrote:"In addition to losing at home to that same team Notre Dame also lost at home to a horrible Michigan State team so your blithe dismissal of a one loss Oregon team isn't well founded.

Notre Dame's main drawing power for the BCS is their drawing power, period. Strictly based on merit a lot of teams including ND deserve consideration but quite obviously Oregon would get the nod if only they had ND's fan base and name recognition.

First of all, MSU wasn't "terrible" when they played Notre Dame. I'm as objective as they come on this front.... I don't like either team. But Michigan State wasn't playing "terrible" football until the second half of the Ohio State game after their head coach had a meltdown on national television. Prior to that, they were playing very good football.

Secondly, I don't see any impressive wins on Oregon's schedule either. I see a squeaker against Fresno..... a squeaker against a pathetic Washington State squad..... and a season-best victory over an ASU team that was barely bowl-eligible. Again, don't get me wrong.... I think we all know that Oregon is a good team.... but they're certainly not "clearly more deserving" than ND.

Just sayin'.

Spinach Genie wrote:...but they did lose to 5-6 MSU, and they did come within a heartbeat of getting beat by another 5-6 team. They have one "quality" win over a 4 loss ranked opponent and only two of the other wins came against teams with (barely) winning records in Navy and BYU. Oregon only has one loss...a loss Notre Dame shares. Auburn ended its season by taking down two (at the time) top ten teams. Of the teams on the slate, I'd say Notre Dame has the weakest claim and if it wasn't for the guaranteed ratings ND brings, they wouldn't get a sniff of the BCS. But, them's the breaks.

See my comments on Oregon above. I don't think it's fair to simply say ND and Oregon "share the same loss." One team got humiliated on their home field. The other came one funny bounce away from winning the game.

Yes, Notre Dame did lose to MSU and USC. And, like I said, Auburn did lose at home to Georgia Tech. Again, I think Auburn is a great team right now..... but there's no way you can tell me that they're "clearly" more deserving than ND. It just isn't the case.

Notre Dames calling card for this season is a loss!!

Fucking Bullshit.

If Notre Dame gets in over a higher ranked BCS team then it will be because the media has overhyped them to their fans who have bought into the hype, hook, line and sinker.

The teams that deserve to be in the BCS bowls are
USC
Texas
LSU
Penn State
Oregon
Ohio State
Miami
Then Notre Dame

But the fact is that West Virgina will get a slot so the question is does notre dame deserve one of the open slots again I say no because Ohio State has the same record as Notre dame and they beat the crap out of the team that beat the crap out of Notre Dame. And Oregon has a better record with a stronger SOS.

Vito Corleone wrote:If Notre Dame gets in over a higher ranked BCS team then it will be because the media has overhyped them to their fans who have bought into the hype, hook, line and sinker.

The teams that deserve to be in the BCS bowls are
USC
Texas
LSU
Penn State
Oregon
Ohio State
Miami
Then Notre Dame

But the fact is that West Virgina will get a slot so the question is does notre dame deserve one of the open slots again I say no because Ohio State has the same record as Notre dame and they beat the crap out of the team that beat the crap out of Notre Dame. And Oregon has a better record with a stronger SOS.

Vito, you might want to check the BCS rankings. ND is ranked higher than Miami. (Btw, you also left out Va Tech, who is ranked ahead of not only ND and Miami, but tOSU and Oregon as well.)

So if the BCS is about taking the Top 8 teams, then ND should be in. Of course, it isn't about that, nor was it ever, and we all know that.

Left Seater wrote:If I had a vote, ND would be playing on Jan 1, just not in a BCS bowl.

In fairness, that much is a given. If ND is passed over for the BCS, anyone who thinks that ND shouldn't be playing in the Gator Bowl over Louisville is quite honestly blinded by their hatred for ND.

Personally, I think ND is in the BCS at this time. I'm basing my conclusion on the fact that the Gator and Insight Bowls have already extended invitations to Louisville and Rutgers, respectively. If there was any doubt in the minds of officials for those games, I think they would have waited to extend their invitations, given that ND has a tie-in with the Big East's non-BCS bowls, and an invitation to the Gator Bowl was a certainty in the event they were passed over for the BCS.

Yes Auburn lost to a great/horrible Georgia Tech team, but that was their only loss.

Auburn also lost to LSU.

^^^^^^^^

Brain cramp. Was thinking two seperate things as I pointed out to Killian.

Vito Corleone wrote: The teams that deserve to be in the BCS bowls are
USC
Texas
LSU
Penn State
Oregon
Ohio State
Miami
Then Notre Dame

TiC, I think Vito meant these are the teams that deserve to be in a BCS bowl. Certainly WVU does not belong and frankly, VT isn't that good either. They benefit from a lackluster schedule and a fairly solid D. If they play anyone decent in their bowl game we will all see their true colors.

Sky wrote:

Vito Corleone wrote: The teams that deserve to be in the BCS bowls are
USC
Texas
LSU
Penn State
Oregon
Ohio State
Miami
Then Notre Dame

TiC, I think Vito meant these are the teams that deserve to be in a BCS bowl. Certainly WVU does not belong and frankly, VT isn't that good either. They benefit from a lackluster schedule and a fairly solid D. If they play anyone decent in their bowl game we will all see their true colors.

In that case, that's just his opinion.

Personally, I'm not that impressed with Miami, haven't been all season. I didn't see all of the FSU game, but what I did see looked like an abortion for both teams. Miami's offense has had a tendency to go south in crucial situations, like in the Georgia Tech game as well.

Both Miami and ND have two losses. One of Miami's losses was late-season, and as long as human polls figure in the mix, a late-season loss will be more devastating than one earlier in the season. And while much on this board has been made of ND's loss to Michigan State, Miami's two losses both came at the hands of 7-4 teams. Not to mention, of course, that ND is ranked higher in the BCS poll than Miami is.

So why should Miami get a BCS bid ahead of ND?